Lee Johnson dividing opinion on SWFC's Owlstalk

[fishpondsred]

Wednesday fans are considering the future if Carlos Carvalhal is sacked and Johnson's name is cropping up as an option that some fans would want. A new thread advocating Johnson has begun - he seems to be dividing opinion. Interesting to see how they view him. As someone who watches Wednesday due to the allegiance of my eldest son (we lived in Sheffield for many years) the pace and agility that Johnson has brought to City is certainly missing from the present Wednesday team, despite the quality of many of their players. If City continue to improve it is perhaps inevitable that others might take an interest in him. 

[Kodjias Wrist]

Read their forum last night. They also had threads on big sam and mick.

[fishpondsred]

And Pardew. 

[Garland-sweden]

Sure LJ is an option If you sack your manager. Think LJ like it in City, his own way of building a team, the border and owner behind him. Also think he have the players with him. No reason at the moment he will chose another Club. The Club is in good vibes.

[myol'man]

What about Dopey? Top up and coming manager, disillusioned with lack of funding in his present position 

[Taz]

21 minutes ago, myol'man said:

What about Dopey? Top up and coming manager, disillusioned with lack of funding in his present position 

Poor whippets....

[Robbored]

LJ sees Bristol City as "his" club and  last season he was concerned that SL would have no choice but to sack him  in view of that dire run of results and that he would have been devastated had that happened. He said as much at Senior Reds recently.

Even if another Championship club came in for him I seriously doubt that he'd leave City. He knows he has the full support of SL and leaving would be letting him down.

Nice to see tho that other clubs are putting him in the frame tho. 

[Judda]

Job for Cotts?

[RedM]

4 minutes ago, Judda said:

Job for Cotts?

Possibly. Out of all the many jobs I've seen him linked to this one if it happens would be one of the ones which would seem the 'right fit' for him

[Kodjias Wrist]

Cotts in general is not a well liked manager and wouldn't appeal to big clubs like Wednesday. I think Karanka would be a good choice but currently favourite for brum. 

[spudski]

You only have to look at all the coaching staff at Wednesday, to realise it's not just a case of removing the manager. They are all Portuguese.

Any new coach/manager coming in, would need a miracle to change things dramatically in a season. It would need a whole bunch of time and transition for any new coach long term.

They'd be better off sticking with what they have for the time being imo.

[LondonBristolian]

I don't think any manager is completely loyal  (and nor should they be - they know they'll get sacked if results go against them so why not take opportunities when things go well? ) but the fact we proved the exception to sacking a struggling manager last season - coupled with the fact he feels he has unfinished business at City, has a good relationship with the Chairman and is being supported to impose his own vision on the club - make me think it would take a Hell of a tempting offer for him to go anywhere, and I don't reckon that will be Wednesday.

I also think - although obviously I don't watch their games - Wednesday would be fools to make a change at the moment given their manager has taken them from mid-table to consistent play-off challenges. Losing to Sheffield United will have hurt and they have started slowly but they are within 5 points of the play-offs and things can easily turn around.

Their opponents last night show exactly what can happen when clubs decide the grass is greener on the other side. I'm not sure who the opposite candidate is to replace him - and it might well be Karanka, who also has a tendency towards negative football and play-off misses so I cannot really see what makes him an improvement. 

[Tipps69]

1 hour ago, fishpondsred said:

Wednesday fans are considering the future if Carlos Carvalhal is sacked and Johnson's name is cropping up as an option that some fans would want. A new thread advocating Johnson has begun - he seems to be dividing opinion. Interesting to see how they view him. As someone who watches Wednesday due to the allegiance of my eldest son (we lived in Sheffield for many years) the pace and agility that Johnson has brought to City is certainly missing from the present Wednesday team, despite the quality of many of their players. If City continue to improve it is perhaps inevitable that others might take an interest in him. 

I’d doubt LJ would leave, as we have regularly heard over the last year or so, Bristol City is his club & he has been given a the opportunity to do something that no one else has managed for nigh on 40 years, he also seems to have everything he could ever want here, his own staff & players, financial backing in the transfer market & with regards to his off field wishes. And he has all the support any head coach could possibly want & need, especially from his own bosses.

What could Sheffield Wednesday seriously offer him that he hasn’t already got here? Maybe a little bit more spending? And maybe an increase in his personal financial terms? But that being said, SL could certainly entertain the idea on matching or bettering most other offers from another Championship club & SL has proved that he is willing to back LJ both financially & supportively!

How many other clubs would have given LJ or any other manager / head coach the support & backing that LJ had, especially during last season’s disastrous spell? We are a club massively on the up, the whole infrastructure of the club is improving & growing, who else in The Championship can match that?

I could understand LJ maybe wanting to go if a Premier League club came knocking, especially if he felt that there was no chance of him getting us there but I wouldn’t of thought he was at that position just yet.

[Tipps69]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

You only have to look at all the coaching staff at Wednesday, to realise it's not just a case of removing the manager. They are all Portuguese.

Any new coach/manager coming in, would need a miracle to change things dramatically in a season. It would need a whole bunch of time and transition for any new coach long term.

They'd be better off sticking with what they have for the time being imo.

I think any clubs answer is to get someone in with an affiliation with that club, someone who has a personal reason to want to succeed & not just a financial reason!

It’s certainly helped us & Sheffield Utd (Chris Wilder) & enables the clubs to rebuild from the bottom up but that also needs the club owners to be willing to go about their business that way instead of expecting instant success, which rarely happens & it’s unlikely you’d get that from the foreign owners who are in the game for the financial rewards (or seemingly so).

[LondonBristolian]

15 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I think any clubs answer is to get someone in with an affiliation with that club, someone who has a personal reason to want to succeed & not just a financial reason!

It’s certainly helped us & Sheffield Utd (Chris Wilder) & enables the clubs to rebuild from the bottom up but that also needs the club owners to be willing to go about their business that way instead of expecting instant success, which rarely happens & it’s unlikely you’d get that from the foreign owners who are in the game for the financial rewards (or seemingly so).

Trying to think who that is in Wednesday's case.

Nigel Pearson played for them but has just got a new job. John Sheridan just got sacked at Oldham but the fact he got sacked at Oldham doesn't bode well, Megson tried and failed, Di Canio's stock is low, Waddle has proved he is no manager. Is there actually any former Wednesday player (or Wednesday fan) doing well in management?

[spudski]

I look at the owners of the two Sheffield clubs and it fears me with dread if it ever happened here.

For all the mistakes in the past...I draw comfort from knowing we have an owner and coach that actually care.

They will make mistakes, like we all do in life, but I'd much rather have that, than what so many other Clubs have....foreign owners with no real affiliation or understanding of the local populous.

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Trying to think who that is in Wednesday's case.

Nigel Pearson played for them but has just got a new job. John Sheridan just got sacked at Oldham but the fact he got sacked at Oldham doesn't bode well, Megson tried and failed, Di Canio's stock is low, Waddle has proved he is no manager. Is there actually any former Wednesday player (or Wednesday fan) doing well in management?

A question for @Owl Visiting to answer on his next visit perhaps.

[Tipps69]

13 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Trying to think who that is in Wednesday's case.

Nigel Pearson played for them but has just got a new job. John Sheridan just got sacked at Oldham but the fact he got sacked at Oldham doesn't bode well, Megson tried and failed, Di Canio's stock is low, Waddle has proved he is no manager. Is there actually any former Wednesday player (or Wednesday fan) doing well in management?

I don’t actually know of anyone off the top of my head but was Wilder considered big enough & good enough to go to Utd? Then Wednesday also have the issue of a foreign owner who seems intent on instant success for the financial rewards!

Don’t get me wrong, ex-players / fans don’t always offer instant success (Osman, Rosenior & Tinnion) but they are more likely to be interested in getting involved in a “project” at a club they have some form of infinity with.

[spudski]

23 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I don’t actually know of anyone off the top of my head but was Wilder considered big enough & good enough to go to Utd? Then Wednesday also have the issue of a foreign owner who seems intent on instant success for the financial rewards!

Don’t get me wrong, ex-players / fans don’t always offer instant success (Osman, Rosenior & Tinnion) but they are more likely to be interested in getting involved in a “project” at a club they have some form of infinity with.

My gut instinct is that Sheff Utd, are doing what we did when we went up under GJ first season.

Taken em 6 years to get out of League 1. Plus 6 managers in 5 years is never going to work. They should have stuck with Nigel Clough imo....let him built.

I can't see Sheff Utd going up or being top 6 come the end of the season.

[LondonBristolian]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

My gut instinct is that Sheff Utd, are doing what we did when we went up under GJ first season.

Taken em 6 years to get out of League 1. Plus 6 managers in 5 years is never going to work. They should have stuck with Nigel Clough imo....let him built.

I can't see Sheff Utd going up or being top 6 come the end of the season.

Maybe, or certainly maybe they were doing that, but Wilder is a good appointment and I can see him stablising the team in the Championship. Obviously they need to stick with him and let him build. I think much of the issue with GJ is he did well on the pitch but didn't seem to be one for long-term planning or developing the youth team and facilities and this got overlooked. If Sheffield United can ensure someone is getting the infrastructure right whilst Wilder gets it right on the pitch I think they will do well in this division for a few years. 

[WhistleHappy]

1 hour ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

..... I think Karanka would be a good choice but currently favourite for brum. 

Why would any club want a Bond villain as manager?... specially one who, prefers playing Solitaire over team Bonding and doesn't cope well with inflation...  Employ Dr Kananga as your Mr Big at your peril...   

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Maybe, or certainly maybe they were doing that, but Wilder is a good appointment and I can see him stablising the team in the Championship. Obviously they need to stick with him and let him build. I think much of the issue with GJ is he did well on the pitch but didn't seem to be one for long-term planning or developing the youth team and facilities and this got overlooked. If Sheffield United can ensure someone is getting the infrastructure right whilst Wilder gets it right on the pitch I think they will do well in this division for a few years. 

True...However, GJ had an owner that was willing to throw plenty of money at short term success....hoping to get to the Prem and go from there.

GJ must have thought he'd won the lottery in management terms.

It's only until recent years, that we've actually understood that you have to build foundations, put an infrastructure in place, and have the right people in place to run a football club.

I've had the pleasure to speak to various City managers over the years about their time here. Without going into details too much, the overriding theme was how appalled they were at how amateurish we were in our 'set up'. It wasn't really until we had Coppell that the penny dropped. After that there was some planning shall we say....and a view to changing things. SoD was brought in to do that....and it's slowly snowballed from there.

What we have in place now, 'behind the scenes' is miles away from anything we had under GJ.

And yes, we are still playing catch up.

When talking to some City fans, I get the impression they have no idea of how badly we used to be run.

Without SL ploughing money in when he did and was allowed too, out set up was no better than the Gas tbh.

[Tipps69]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

My gut instinct is that Sheff Utd, are doing what we did when we went up under GJ first season.

Taken em 6 years to get out of League 1. Plus 6 managers in 5 years is never going to work. They should have stuck with Nigel Clough imo....let him built.

I can't see Sheff Utd going up or being top 6 come the end of the season.

But I think they’ve realised that the sacking culture way of doing things, weren’t getting them anywhere. Getting someone in who is willing to rebuild from the bottom up & is unlikely to want to walk away at the first sign of another offer, is a massive plus but it also needs an owner who is willing to rebuild from the bottom up & not someone who expects an instant return on someone else’s ****-ups & cost building over the previous 5 years or so.

As you’ve said, those kind of owners seem to be very few & far between, the majority of club owners now think the answer is to just throw millions of pounds on top of the millions that previous managers have already spent & that’ll solve the problem, irrespective of their wage bill becoming astronomical & the club getting stuck with unwanted players who are happy to just pick up their wages for doing nothing.

Both LJ & Wilder have had to ship out the deadwood & get the finances back into shape while maintaining a certain level of performance before being allowed to progress the club evidently on the pitch, how many other clubs could they leave for & get the same level of control? Not many I would suggest?!?

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

True...However, GJ had an owner that was willing to throw plenty of money at short term success....hoping to get to the Prem and go from there.

GJ must have thought he'd won the lottery in management terms.

It's only until recent years, that we've actually understood that you have to build foundations, put an infrastructure in place, and have the right people in place to run a football club.

I've had the pleasure to speak to various City managers over the years about their time here. Without going into details too much, the overriding theme was how appalled they were at how amateurish we were in our 'set up'. It wasn't really until we had Coppell that the penny dropped. After that there was some planning shall we say....and a view to changing things. SoD was brought in to do that....and it's slowly snowballed from there.

What we have in place now, 'behind the scenes' is miles away from anything we had under GJ.

And yes, we are still playing catch up.

When talking to some City fans, I get the impression they have no idea of how badly we used to be run.

Without SL ploughing money in when he did and was allowed too, out set up was no better than the Gas tbh.

I certainly find that plausible and it ties in what I suspected. Thinking all the way back to 2000, we had Danny Wilson who was fairly old school then Tinnion where City was the only club he had worked at for a decade and then Gary Johnson who, whilst the 'Conference Manager' tag was cruel and harsh, had nonetheless cut his teeth managing Yeovil, a club that were rapidly professionalising and had a set up a world away from a second-tier club. I find it easy to believe that the whole revolution in sports science, coaching, diet and development pretty much passed us by.

 

As an aside, I remember managing City on football management games around 2010/2011 and being surprised by how few coaches and scouts we had compared to other clubs and - whilst a game is a simulation rather than reality - how poorly the coaches and scouts we did have were rated. I suspect it was not a million miles from the truth...

[Tipps69]

16 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Maybe, or certainly maybe they were doing that, but Wilder is a good appointment and I can see him stablising the team in the Championship. Obviously they need to stick with him and let him build. I think much of the issue with GJ is he did well on the pitch but didn't seem to be one for long-term planning or developing the youth team and facilities and this got overlooked. If Sheffield United can ensure someone is getting the infrastructure right whilst Wilder gets it right on the pitch I think they will do well in this division for a few years. 

I think GJ’s platform was built on the blueprint of the Bolton design from when they first made it to The Premier League, sign older players who have played at that level but required very little in the way of an initial outlay in the form of transfer fees just to consolidate at that level, the problem GJ had was that the team got better results than expected & all of a sudden expectations had risen significantly & there was no time to try & build from the bottom up because once we looked like we were becoming promotion candidates by the January & having made the play-off final, expectations had risen & everything had to be concentrated on the first team to try & keep us up there although it was done years before anyone could of possibly expected.

[LondonBristolian]

11 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I think GJ’s platform was built on the blueprint of the Bolton design from when they first made it to The Premier League, sign older players who have played at that level but required very little in the way of an initial outlay in the form of transfer fees just to consolidate at that level, the problem GJ had was that the team got better results than expected & all of a sudden expectations had risen significantly & there was no time to try & build from the bottom up because once we looked like we were becoming promotion candidates by the January & having made the play-off final, expectations had risen & everything had to be concentrated on the first team to try & keep us up there although it was done years before anyone could of possibly expected.

I think that's true. If we play our cards right then a couple of years simply establishing ourselves and keeping our heads above water could work wonders for us. We've got a team of players where several of them who could plausibly be sold on for profit in the future,  young players coming through the ranks and a chance to build. In a way I think both the most impressive and damning thing about our play-off season is that it was pretty much as good as it got for every single player at the club. 

[JoeAman08]

Honestly I'd be gutted if he left City. He's not the best coach but he's dedicated to getting us up to a top level. I'm confident LJ could take us quite high and hope if he was offered something he'd show loyalty to us as we did to him. Of course to a certain point. He very irritated if he went to a championship club or lower premier league club. I wouldn't begrudge him if a Southampton or similar team came in for him though. Not saying likely but he's got age and being English going for him. Of young English managers it's Eddie Howe then LJ would be in the conversation for best after him I'd think. 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Honestly I'd be gutted if he left City. He's not the best coach but he's dedicated to getting us up to a top level.

I think he’s a better coach than many give him credit for - he’s also got scope to get even better.

 

[spudski]

Interesting that Bolton, GJ and 'sports science, coaching, diet and development'....are mentioned in the last couple posts.

Big Sam is a very forward thinking coach, and was one of the first in this country to use technology and 'outside the box' thinking, and new methods of coaching, teaching philosophy.

So many see him as being a dinosaur....they couldn't be further from the truth.

What he had instilled at Bolton was far removed from what we had under GJ. We may have bought older players, but Big Sams were well scouted.

Another forum member BBSB will tell you all about Big Sam.

[Tipps69]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

Interesting that Bolton, GJ and 'sports science, coaching, diet and development'....are mentioned in the last couple posts.

Big Sam is a very forward thinking coach, and was one of the first in this country to use technology and 'outside the box' thinking, and new methods of coaching, teaching philosophy.

So many see him as being a dinosaur....they couldn't be further from the truth.

What he had instilled at Bolton was far removed from what we had under GJ. We may have bought older players, but Big Sams were well scouted.

Another forum member BBSB will tell you all about Big Sam.

But ‘Big Sams’ recruitment policy when he got Bolton up was to spend very little on transfer fees & bring in ‘old heads’, ex-internationals who had a proven pedigree to be able to perform at the level required & it offered those players the opportunity to play at a high level before their careers came to an end (Adebola & Byfield in our case).

We have now started fishing in this foreign market & reaping the rewards where as ‘Big Sam’ was fishing in this ‘pond’ 20 years ago or so but Bolton had the advantage of being in The Premier League, we on the other hand were ‘little ol Bristol City’ who had only just managed to make it to the 2nd tier of English football, not exactly an attractive proposition considering.

[Septic Peg]

52 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I think GJ’s platform was built on the blueprint of the Bolton design from when they first made it to The Premier League, sign older players who have played at that level but required very little in the way of an initial outlay in the form of transfer fees just to consolidate at that level, the problem GJ had was that the team got better results than expected & all of a sudden expectations had risen significantly & there was no time to try & build from the bottom up because once we looked like we were becoming promotion candidates by the January & having made the play-off final, expectations had risen & everything had to be concentrated on the first team to try & keep us up there although it was done years before anyone could of possibly expected.

Nail on head.

Whilst that season was incredible, I knew it wouldn't work out, just because we had no time to establish ourselves. We've been a Champ/League 1 yoyo team for years. This is our 3rd consecutive Champ season and I feel we are now starting to be comfy at this level. 

If we can establish ourselves as full time Champ regulars like Ipswich, Wolves etc, we will have the foundations to push onwards and drop the yoyo tag.

[Tipps69]

Exactly this Peg, we had no time for a gradual progression & it was a case of all or nothing & us the supporters got dragged along with it.

Now we are establishing ourselves in this division, we are showing signs of progression & the next step will be to push on for promotion & then we will really see what our intentions are with less of a restriction on what we are allowed to spend & with more money coming into the club from all angles & SL’s vast fortune, I can only see us being in a much better position than some of the clubs that make it up for the first time.

[Grey Fox]

Nice thing is, we have no big expectations this season, most of us would probably be happy with a top half finish, the fans of clubs like Wednesday, Leeds, Villa, Boro' etc demand success, so when results go against them they add to the pressure on the club (did anyone see the clip of the Wed's boss beating up a £20 note in the press conference?). As the season develops more and more of them will have to try and deal with that pressure, and if they do not leaves a little bit of room for a cider chilled dark horse to gallop through?

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

But ‘Big Sams’ recruitment policy when he got Bolton up was to spend very little on transfer fees & bring in ‘old heads’, ex-internationals who had a proven pedigree to be able to perform at the level required & it offered those players the opportunity to play at a high level before their careers came to an end (Adebola & Byfield in our case).

We have now started fishing in this foreign market & reaping the rewards where as ‘Big Sam’ was fishing in this ‘pond’ 20 years ago or so but Bolton had the advantage of being in The Premier League, we on the other hand were ‘little ol Bristol City’ who had only just managed to make it to the 2nd tier of English football, not exactly an attractive proposition considering.

Exactly...regardless of what division you're in, Scouting costs next to nothing. Most underpaid 'job' at any club. The majority do it for pin money, expenses and sometimes not even that. Get a bunch of scouts working for you, that you trust in their judgement, and due your due diligence when looking at a player....add that to all the 'technical' stuff.

Making good contacts in football, that have mutual respect for one another, and have like minded ideas as well as being open to other people and suggestions always helps.

Sam made sure he did that....and from what I understand LJ does too.

We had a previous manager, that would only work with a small team of people he liked, was very closed to listening to anyone outside of that, was 'Marmite' by a lot of the football community, and only liked to work with a small band of certain scouts and agents. If you do that, you are going to lessen your percentage of chances in doing well....especially higher up the leagues you go.

 

[Tipps69]

5 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Nice thing is, we have no big expectations this season, most of us would probably be happy with a top half finish, the fans of clubs like Wednesday, Leeds, Villa, Boro' etc demand success, so when results go against them they add to the pressure on the club (did anyone see the clip of the Wed's boss beating up a £20 note in the press conference?). As the season develops more and more of them will have to try and deal with that pressure, and if they do not leaves a little bit of room for a cider chilled dark horse to gallop through?

Which the difference that we’ve had from our time in The Championship under GJ & LJ, GJ had relative success when we came up in 2007 & that automatically rose our expectations. This time around SC made a ‘pigs ear’ of things in the first season (for whatever reason) & that then meant that our expectations never got too high, that was until our start of last season where we were in the play-off positions come the end of September & then everybody’s expectations came crashing down but if you look at how far we have progressed both on & off the pitch in just those 3 seasons (2 & a bit technically), we are so much better prepared & even if we were to gain promotion this season, we would be in so much of a better position than if we had gained promotion in 2008.

[Tipps69]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Exactly...regardless of what division you're in, Scouting costs next to nothing. Most underpaid 'job' at any club. The majority do it for pin money, expenses and sometimes not even that. Get a bunch of scouts working for you, that you trust in their judgement, and due your due diligence when looking at a player....add that to all the 'technical' stuff.

Making good contacts in football, that have mutual respect for one another, and have like minded ideas as well as being open to other people and suggestions always helps.

Sam made sure he did that....and from what I understand LJ does too.

We had a previous manager, that would only work with a small team of people he liked, was very closed to listening to anyone outside of that, was 'Marmite' by a lot of the football community, and only liked to work with a small band of certain scouts and agents. If you do that, you are going to lessen your percentage of chances in doing well....especially higher up the leagues you go.

 

I can’t possibly think of who you’re referring too 

[cheshire_red]

3 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Trying to think who that is in Wednesday's case.

Nigel Pearson played for them but has just got a new job. John Sheridan just got sacked at Oldham but the fact he got sacked at Oldham doesn't bode well, Megson tried and failed, Di Canio's stock is low, Waddle has proved he is no manager. Is there actually any former Wednesday player (or Wednesday fan) doing well in management?

Oh Danny Boy

[cheshire_red]

2 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

I think GJ’s platform was built on the blueprint of the Bolton design from when they first made it to The Premier League, sign older players who have played at that level but required very little in the way of an initial outlay in the form of transfer fees just to consolidate at that level, the problem GJ had was that the team got better results than expected & all of a sudden expectations had risen significantly & there was no time to try & build from the bottom up because once we looked like we were becoming promotion candidates by the January & having made the play-off final, expectations had risen & everything had to be concentrated on the first team to try & keep us up there although it was done years before anyone could of possibly expected.

Or we could have bought a striker or two in January

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

True...However, GJ had an owner that was willing to throw plenty of money at short term success....hoping to get to the Prem and go from there.

GJ must have thought he'd won the lottery in management terms.

It's only until recent years, that we've actually understood that you have to build foundations, put an infrastructure in place, and have the right people in place to run a football club

I suspect all our managers feel the same spud, LJ (who has spent more than all of them put together ) included.

Bit harsh to single out GJ. He actually got us promoted by spending pretty much sod all and his biggest signing of our most successful season in donkeys years was Trundle at £1m. If anything there was a school of thought that in the January transfer window that season we didn't spend enough (only £300k on Adebola) whereas our nearest rivals at the time Stoke City spent a few million and ended up getting promoted automatically. His other 'big money' signing was Maynard who can be considered a success as he scored about 50 goals for us making him one of our most successful strikers of all-time.

GJ certainly preferred 'experience' over 'youth' though and long-term that will not be beneficial to a football club. In the end he just ran out of ideas I think as was demonstrated by the number of loan players he kept bringing in.

[Lordofthebling]

Deja vu... We were saying this exactly last year.

I think the fact that SL literally put almost his whole reputation on the line with LJ, should keep him here for a while yet.  What more could a manager want? 

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I suspect all our managers feel the same spud, LJ (who has spent more than all of them put together ) included.

Bit harsh to single out GJ. He actually got us promoted by spending pretty much sod all and his biggest signing of our most successful season in donkeys years was Trundle at £1m. If anything there was a school of thought that in the January transfer window that season we didn't spend enough (only £300k on Adebola) whereas our nearest rivals at the time Stoke City spent a few million and ended up getting promoted automatically. His other 'big money' signing was Maynard who can be considered a success as he scored about 50 goals for us making him one of our most successful strikers of all-time.

GJ certainly preferred 'experience' over 'youth' though and long-term that will not be beneficial to a football club. In the end he just ran out of ideas I think as was demonstrated by the number of loan players he kept bringing in.

Yeah - I agree about running out of ideas. But I also think he had got into a habit of buying players without having a clear plan of how we intended to use them. The season he went we had at least 6 central midfielders and a massive deficiency in quality and/or cover everywhere else on the pitch...

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I suspect all our managers feel the same spud, LJ (who has spent more than all of them put together ) included.

Bit harsh to single out GJ. He actually got us promoted by spending pretty much sod all and his biggest signing of our most successful season in donkeys years was Trundle at £1m. If anything there was a school of thought that in the January transfer window that season we didn't spend enough (only £300k on Adebola) whereas our nearest rivals at the time Stoke City spent a few million and ended up getting promoted automatically. His other 'big money' signing was Maynard who can be considered a success as he scored about 50 goals for us making him one of our most successful strikers of all-time.

GJ certainly preferred 'experience' over 'youth' though and long-term that will not be beneficial to a football club. In the end he just ran out of ideas I think as was demonstrated by the number of loan players he kept bringing in.

I obviously didn't get my point across very well KitR....I wasn't having a dig at GJ....he did well getting us up, it was the money spent when we were up that was the problem.

SL gave money to be spent with no long term plan...it was 'here you go, knock yourself out with that'....and GJ bought accordingly with a short term mentality of success. As have other managers.

Yes...LJ has spent....but it's not been carte blanche with short term success in mind.

The majority of managers realise they have probably 2 years to work with a Club. Stats prove that. So with that midset, they look after themselves and buy players that will give them what they think will do well in that short term period of tenure. Basically looking after themselves and not the clubs future.

LJ has been given money...but it has been spent according to the plan agreed. He could have gone out and spent on bigger names and with more experience, but by and large he hasn't. He's spent on young hungry players, with talent, that can develop and become better.

When doing that and buying into that philosophy, as a manager, you are undermining yourself more, as you have more of a chance of it not working out. Less experience etc,etc.

So we can say LJ has spent a good amount...but it's been within restrictions of the blueprint and plan for the Club.

It's a completely different scenario to which other managers have had.

[BCFC_Dan]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

True...However, GJ had an owner that was willing to throw plenty of money at short term success....hoping to get to the Prem and go from there.

GJ must have thought he'd won the lottery in management terms.

I'm prepared to be proven wrong on this, but my recollection is that GJ did not throw a lot of money at the team.

He paid a lot for Maynard by our standards, but not really in the grand scheme of things, and that was for a young, up-and-coming player, the kind of signing we'd make now.

He failed to overhaul the spine of the team adequately, falling out and moving on the likes of Basso and Orr, which saw things slowly degrade.

He signed players who weren't really good enough, such as Clarkson and Campbell-Ryce.

BUT. I can't think of any really big earners signed by GJ. For me that phase came after he left. When Coppell was allowed to bring in Stewart, Cisse and Hunt, and somebody signed David James. That was followed up by letting Millen spend a fair bit in a desperate attempt for one of Lansdown's men to be successful.

Appreciate this isn't really the point of the thread, but I do feel GJ gets a lot of the blame for things that actually happened in the years after him. The decline may have begun under him but we weren't really in bad shape when he left.

[Red Army 75]

People will be hanging their bed sheets out again. But this time with Johnson stay on them . Fair play to him he's done really well this season. Certainly got thick skin 

[Jack Dawe]

7 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

People will be hanging their bed sheets out again. But this time with Johnson stay on them . Fair play to him he's done really well this season. Certainly got thick skin 

"Lansdown-get your Johnson signed up for another three years"

[Garland-sweden]

SW lost the derby and then lost Brum away. Shit happens with your team, but why will they sack their manager?

[spudski]

1 hour ago, BCFC_Dan said:

I'm prepared to be proven wrong on this, but my recollection is that GJ did not throw a lot of money at the team.

He paid a lot for Maynard by our standards, but not really in the grand scheme of things, and that was for a young, up-and-coming player, the kind of signing we'd make now.

He failed to overhaul the spine of the team adequately, falling out and moving on the likes of Basso and Orr, which saw things slowly degrade.

He signed players who weren't really good enough, such as Clarkson and Campbell-Ryce.

BUT. I can't think of any really big earners signed by GJ. For me that phase came after he left. When Coppell was allowed to bring in Stewart, Cisse and Hunt, and somebody signed David James. That was followed up by letting Millen spend a fair bit in a desperate attempt for one of Lansdown's men to be successful.

Appreciate this isn't really the point of the thread, but I do feel GJ gets a lot of the blame for things that actually happened in the years after him. The decline may have begun under him but we weren't really in bad shape when he left.

Yes I agree...although he didn't spend hugely...it was money spent for the moment, unlike now. And agree...bigger sums were spent after his tenure.

I tried to make my point better in another post, I'm obviously failing today mate :laugh: ;-)

[Gibbs]

1 hour ago, Garland-sweden said:

SW lost the derby and then lost Brum away. Shit happens with your team, but why will they sack their manager?

Sheff Wed are aiming for automatic promotion. Anything less than play-offs will be seen as a failure - according to what their board has been saying for the last 2 seasons. That's the impression I get from a Sheff Wed fan anyway

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, Gibbs said:

Sheff Wed are aiming for automatic promotion. Anything less than play-offs will be seen as a failure - according to what their board has been saying for the last 2 seasons. That's the impression I get from a Sheff Wed fan anyway

The owners have been quoted as wanting promotion this year, to coincide with their 150th year anniversary.

We've got a bit longer to wait....especially after the last owner decided to take away 3 years of our existence :laugh: ;-)

[RaspberryRed]

6 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think any manager is completely loyal  (and nor should they be - they know they'll get sacked if results go against them so why not take opportunities when things go well? ) but the fact we proved the exception to sacking a struggling manager last season - coupled with the fact he feels he has unfinished business at City, has a good relationship with the Chairman and is being supported to impose his own vision on the club - make me think it would take a Hell of a tempting offer for him to go anywhere, and I don't reckon that will be Wednesday.

I also think - although obviously I don't watch their games - Wednesday would be fools to make a change at the moment given their manager has taken them from mid-table to consistent play-off challenges. Losing to Sheffield United will have hurt and they have started slowly but they are within 5 points of the play-offs and things can easily turn around.

Their opponents last night show exactly what can happen when clubs decide the grass is greener on the other side. I'm not sure who the opposite candidate is to replace him - and it might well be Karanka, who also has a tendency towards negative football and play-off misses so I cannot really see what makes him an improvement. 

The grass is always greener on the other side but it's because it rains more 

[Red Skin]

6 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

he also seems to have everything he could ever want here

LJ is a pretty shrewd guy and as others there's alot here to give up.  I think others have mentioned he has invested shrewdly in the property market.  If that's true then even less incentive to chase the money.  Seems to be the sort of guy that wants to build something and where else would afford give the time?

[Garland-sweden]

1 hour ago, Gibbs said:

Sheff Wed are aiming for automatic promotion. Anything less than play-offs will be seen as a failure - according to what their board has been saying for the last 2 seasons. That's the impression I get from a Sheff Wed fan anyway

Ok. But they only lost two games so far and are only seven points up to the leader, Leeds. 36 games left and if SW would be my team, no reason to panic. This leauge is not a walk in the park for no team. If they had been bottom in the table I could understand it. Maybe its stuff in their club we dont know.

[AppyDAZE]

If Lee upped sticks and moved to Sheffield and I was Steve Lansdown I think i would want to murder him tbh.

There's loyalty and there's taking the piss

[Shtanley]

He'd be stupid to leave us for almost anyone outside the prem

[Red Cloud]

I'd be devastated if they nicked Colin! 

[chinapig]

13 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

He'd be stupid to leave us for almost anyone outside the prem

He would and I don't think any Championship club could tempt him.

[Garland-sweden]

Cardiff 23 and SU 21 is top of the table. SW have 13 points.

[The Fat Controller]

I'd be pissed off if he left, especially for a team in the Championship. 

Not because I think he's an amazing manager, but simply for the loyalty he has been shown. He owes this club. He owes Lansdown. 

[JoeAman08]

7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think he’s a better coach than many give him credit for - he’s also got scope to get even better.

 

I agree, especially about the scope to get better. I mean I think if you look back even 12 months he's gotten much better. I didn't mean it in a negative way just in the scope of him theoretically leaving I'd still be gutted even though he's still got flaws. 

[Tipps69]

32 minutes ago, Chris_Brown said:

I'd be pissed off if he left, especially for a team in the Championship. 

Not because I think he's an amazing manager, but simply for the loyalty he has been shown. He owes this club. He owes Lansdown. 

Hold on, a) Sheffield Wednesday still have their manager b) there’s never been any sign that Sheffield Wednesday are remotely interested in potentially having LJ as their manager & c) LJ has never shown any sign that he’d want to leave.

It’s seeming like some are already starting a witch hunt on LJ with no sign of any substance to the original Sheffield Wednesday forum post.

It’s just a similar thing as to us discussing who we’d like as a potential manager / head coach should LJ not be here, even though he is. It’s a forum discussion, there’s no sign of it possibly happening.

[Red-Robbo]

11 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Read their forum last night. They also had threads on big sam and mick.

Big Sam & Mick sounds like a ventriloqist act....

[CotswoldRed]

Bit up themselves if they think Johnson would leave City to go there. And he'd have to live near Sheffield. 

[downendcity]

LJ divides opinion on Owls Talk.

This is different from OTIB because........? 

[The Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

Hold on, a) Sheffield Wednesday still have their manager b) there’s never been any sign that Sheffield Wednesday are remotely interested in potentially having LJ as their manager & c) LJ has never shown any sign that he’d want to leave.

It’s seeming like some are already starting a witch hunt on LJ with no sign of any substance to the original Sheffield Wednesday forum post.

It’s just a similar thing as to us discussing who we’d like as a potential manager / head coach should LJ not be here, even though he is. It’s a forum discussion, there’s no sign of it possibly happening.

Calm down, I am simply participating into the discussion and offering my view if this were to happen. The operative word in my post was "if". No witch hunt here in the slightest. 

If the forum was only for discussing things that are actually likely to happen then there'd be a hell of a lot less activity on here than there is now.

[stephenkibby.]

8 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Keep up the good work LJ! You will soon be in high demand

Thach are you a roofer or do you live in a cottage? Or both?

[Tipps69]

11 minutes ago, Chris_Brown said:

Calm down, I am simply participating into the discussion and offering my view if this were to happen. The operative word in my post was "if". No witch hunt here in the slightest. 

If the forum was only for discussing things that are actually likely to happen then there'd be a hell of a lot less activity on here than there is now.

And if we all speculate about everything that could possibly happen (or possibly not) then we’d all forget what is actually happening.

The witch hunt comment wasn’t solely aimed towards you but I couldn’t be bothered to quote everyone who was seemingly getting distressed about a situation that is probably 99% away from ever happening.

I also find it ironic considering the amount of people worried about LJ leaving, considering the amount of people that wished he had left midway through last season (again just a general observation from this thread).

[BS15_RED]

2 hours ago, Chris_Brown said:

I'd be pissed off if he left, especially for a team in the Championship. 

Not because I think he's an amazing manager, but simply for the loyalty he has been shown. He owes this club. He owes Lansdown. 

This is spot on, he doesn't particularly owe us as a fan base anything (I say this as someone who'd of gladly seen him go earlier this year), but he definitely owes SL who stuck his neck out for him when some of the abuse he got was particularly vitriolic. At the moment, this is all pure conjecture any way.

[Leaning To One Side]

On 28/09/2017 at 20:46, stephenkibby. said:

Thach are you a roofer or do you live in a cottage? Or both?

Or does he/she wear a wig 

[Owl Visiting]

I just can't see Johnson going to Wednesday, I don't think he'd be on our list if Carlos was sacked, and just as importantly I don't think he'd want it. I seem to remember when he left Barnsley he said he wouldn't have done it for any other club in this division due to his family connection to the club. It's interesting how quickly a manager's stock changes though as I remember the vast amount of Johnson Out threads on here last season. He obviously did a good job at Barnsley and it appears he's got things sorted here now so good luck to him.

As for Carlos, I'm still behind him. I can see why it would seem odd to the neutral why most Wednesday fans want him gone, but it appears we are going backwards with a talented squad and an enormous wage bill. Someone has claimed today that we have 10 players on over 30k a week. His record is poor in the big games as both playoff campaigns have ended in a really disappointing performance and then that humiliation on Sunday. It feels like the push for automatic promotion is fading away already. 

Huge game on Sunday at home to Leeds. Could be his last, but I really hope not.

 

[Unan]

52 minutes ago, Owl Visiting said:

I just can't see Johnson going to Wednesday, I don't think he'd be on our list if Carlos was sacked, and just as importantly I don't think he'd want it. I seem to remember when he left Barnsley he said he wouldn't have done it for any other club in this division due to his family connection to the club. It's interesting how quickly a manager's stock changes though as I remember the vast amount of Johnson Out threads on here last season. He obviously did a good job at Barnsley and it appears he's got things sorted here now so good luck to him.

As for Carlos, I'm still behind him. I can see why it would seem odd to the neutral why most Wednesday fans want him gone, but it appears we are going backwards with a talented squad and an enormous wage bill. Someone has claimed today that we have 10 players on over 30k a week. His record is poor in the big games as both playoff campaigns have ended in a really disappointing performance and then that humiliation on Sunday. It feels like the push for automatic promotion is fading away already. 

Huge game on Sunday at home to Leeds. Could be his last, but I really hope not.

 

Jheeze 10 over 30k? Don’t think we have any over 20?