old_eastender Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Shows the backing LJ has had and why we need to maintain our early season good form this time around... no excuses. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41564471
Tipps69 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, old_eastender said: Shows the backing LJ has had and why we need to maintain our early season good form this time around... no excuses. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41564471 That’s staff spend compared to turnover, it’s not the fact that we’ve spent the 3rd most amount in the division, which I’d suggest we haven’t.
spudski Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 It's also from the season ending 2016...when SC was here for the majority of the season.
I Am A Cider Drinker Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 And I doubt that includes all the extra money we are now getting from matchdays, I remember the figure 2.5 million compared to 250k being thrown about, can’t remember if that was per game, per month or per season though? Anyone know? Would imagine that that our position in this particular table at the moment would be around halfway now
Tipps69 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, spudski said: It's also from the season ending 2016...when SC was here for the majority of the season. Ssshhhhh, it’s still a rod to beat LJ with though......
Tipps69 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, I Am A Cider Drinker said: And I doubt that includes all the extra money we are now getting from matchdays, I remember the figure 2.5 million compared to 250k being thrown about, can’t remember if that was per game, per month or per season though? Anyone know? Would imagine that that our position in this particular table at the moment would be around halfway now Our income would be extremely more considering we were only using half a stadium around that time.
Ray White Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Brighton were certainly guilty of this last year. If they hadn't got promoted rumour has it they were going to be up sh1t creek
Phileas Fogg Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 47 minutes ago, old_eastender said: Shows the backing LJ has had and why we need to maintain our early season good form this time around... no excuses. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41564471 34 minutes ago, spudski said: It's also from the season ending 2016...when SC was here for the majority of the season. Hahaha oh dear
ChippenhamRed Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 I keep hearing all the time how much money we've spent in the last couple of years. But this has to be offset against where we started from. After our promotion from L1 we started the season with a squad arguably weaker than the one that had gone up, and needed a large number of loans to make up the numbers. We needed to spend more money than many other teams in the division just to reach parity with them. Just because we've spent more than other teams recently does not mean we should necessarily expect to be doing better than them. In other words, we had to spend more just to catch up.
Distortia Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 With all respect, it seems pointless making a thread about an article you haven't even read. People are obviously going to simply read the article and it just makes you look ignorant.
spudski Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 57 minutes ago, oldrosie said: Would most fans know the difference between turnover, revenue, net and gross profit? I would hope so...basic maths and education.
Port Said Red Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Anyway it's not how much you spend, it's how well you spend it I would imagine that almost every player has increased their value since signing.
Bar BS3 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, old_eastender said: Shows the backing LJ has had and why we need to maintain our early season good form this time around... no excuses. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41564471 From reading that article and looking at where we are right now, in comparison to most other clubs, AND taking into account how those figures should differ now, from then, you've (accidentally) identified just how well we are doing! That'll teach you for trying to take a backhanded dig and people..!
Bar BS3 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, oldrosie said: Would most fans know the difference between turnover, revenue, net and gross profit? I know that all 4 categories are improved by people who actually go and support the club, rather than take pride in refusing to do so..!
Kid in the Riot Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Those figures were without the considerable revenue stream of the West Stand. Last seasons figures will be the interesting ones as that'll be spend versus turnover inclusive of a 20k average crowd and all the hospitality being full every week. FWIW I still think we'll be up near the top of that table this time next year given what we've spent, but we shall wait and see.
petehinton Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Don’t really know what that is really showing to be honest. Nothing with any real substance. If you looked at our P&L for the same period it would look very healthy as we sold Kodjia for a club record fee, the ground was fully reopened etc.
Chairman Mao Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 We have now sold Kodjia, received Bolasie sell on and have 20,000 average attendance so it will be much better for 16-17. How, if that is 15-16, City managed to spend that much on staff with such a tiny squad is amazing, I guess our revenue must have been tiny.
BCFC Rich Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 It does a good job of showing how SL props up our finances and how growing attendance and market presence is vital to sustainability.
Kingswood Robin Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 5 hours ago, petehinton said: Don’t really know what that is really showing to be honest. Nothing with any real substance. If you looked at our P&L for the same period it would look very healthy as we sold Kodjia for a club record fee, the ground was fully reopened etc. I'd say this type of measure would be of some interest if it showed staff cost as a percentage of average running turnover from things like gates, TV, the ground. Try and exclude big one-off sells like Kodjia as this distorts the picture. If our percentage was much higher than a Huddersfield or a Reading, and they finished much higher up the league than us, I think we (and Steve Lansdown) can justifiably ask "what's going on?" There's a telling stat in there somewhere, but not in it's current format.
Monkeh Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 oh dear, show's how much Lee was backed? he came in after the transfer window had shut, so of that money spent 0 was spent by johnson
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Top spending City = no excuses & Club at risk Bottom spending City = Move out Lansdown and allow proper investment Average spending City = no bloody ambition.
Super Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 And we are only 4th in the league. Johnson out.
View from the Dolman Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 12 hours ago, Chairman Mao said: We have now sold Kodjia, received Bolasie sell on and have 20,000 average attendance so it will be much better for 16-17. How, if that is 15-16, City managed to spend that much on staff with such a tiny squad is amazing, I guess our revenue must have been tiny. The stadium redevelopment was one of the biggest constraints on revenue. Ticket sales turnover (season tickets and individual match tickets) was only up from £3.67m in L1 to £3.86m in the Championship. You'd ordinarily be hoping for more than that!
spudski Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 It's very stark reading that report. If we ever go up, I really do hope our owner looks at the likes of Burnley, rather than the majority of promoted teams. The 'golden ticket' is just a ticking time bomb for many clubs. I look at Palace now...full of players taking a massive wage, who couldn't give a toss. We as fans all thought there journey up, and their fans loving the ride, was interesting to watch...reminded me of our season under GJ...bounce effect. I'd hate City to be in that position now. Getting to the Prem for the majority of teams, is like shagging Kylie then having a lifetime of aids.
downendcity Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Surely what these figures demonstrate is the reason why SL made the decision to change the whole structure at the club - the much derided 5 pillars. Part of that plan was to make the club financially self sufficient, and I think that one of the major reasons for that was that Sl could see that football's financial rules would effectively negate his wealth, as an owner would be limited as to how much he/she can put into the team. To me those figures do not show that we were the third highest spenders in absolute terms - we were the third highest spenders only relative to our turnover. A while ago someone posted a listing of championship clubs and how much income they generate on match days and we were right down the bottom - IIRC we were the only championship club without any corporate boxes. We were also languishing well down the list in terms of non match day revenue. We are competing in a division where a lot of teams have far greater financial clout than us, despite SL's wealth, because of the financial rules. If we are to compete then we need to spend , but need to do so in a smarter way, and I think this is what we are doing. SL's original plan was for the brand new stadium at AV, as this would have given us all we needed to make the stadium more of an income generator, but we know what happened to that plan! The refurbished AG is a bit of a compromise, but now compete we are seeing the benefits - increased attendances and more corporate facilities giving increased match day revenue.As importantly, I understand that the use of the stadium for corporate events means we are now generating income from the stadium use on non match days. I strongly suspect that were that table to be reproduced now we would be in a different position. Our spend might be the same or (more likely ) higher, but as turnover increases we will be spending less as a proportion of income. On the Lee Johnson and Aden Flint winning their awards thread, there is much comment about posters changing their tune regarding LJ. I think the bigger picture is the more important one. Many were, and possibly still are, sceptical about SL's ownership, the club's management ( the suits with management speak, buzz words, the right "DNA") the 5 pillars, player strategy (need experienced championship players not kids for the future) and of course, LJ's appointment in the first place, because he's SL's mate. We are not the finished article, and I am concerned that some are getting carried away with talk of promotion this season, but it seems to me that perhaps we are now seeing the long term plan coming together where it matters most - out on the pitch. Ive said before that one of the problems SL has is that many fans want to see immediate results from a long term plan, and that will never happen. LJ said that he would need 3 transfer windows and when things were at their worst last season, this was trotted out on here by many, but it could be that the last of those windows saw his best bit of business by moving LT to Cardiff. It also appears that it has taken that same time for LJ to get the team he wants working with and alongside him, and if what we are now seeing on the pitch is the result of this, then perhaps we should have more faith and confidence in the people actually running the club and team on a day to day basis. I have little doubt that at the slightest set back ( and it will happen) we will see many of the same names posting negative and critical moment, because that's the way of a forum such as this. However, if things continue as they have been so far this season, then I hope the number posting negatively in the future will get less and less. P.S. SL received lots of criticism in the past for not letting football people make the footballing decisions. I reckon that process is now in place and that SL has people he trusts to make the right decisions for the club. Sorry for the long winded post, but just back from 2 weeks hols and frustrated that while I could read posts will away OTIB would not let me post responses.
Bristol Rob Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: is like shagging Kylie then having a lifetime of aids. I have been getting a lot of colds recently. It's all starting to make sense.
downendcity Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: Getting to the Prem for the majority of teams, is like shagging Kylie then having a lifetime of aids. I should be so lucky. Sorry, it had to be done!
BRISTOL86 Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 17 hours ago, old_eastender said: Shows the backing LJ has had and why we need to maintain our early season good form this time around... no excuses. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41564471 It doesn't though, does it?
ChippenhamRed Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, spudski said: It's very stark reading that report. If we ever go up, I really do hope our owner looks at the likes of Burnley, rather than the majority of promoted teams. The 'golden ticket' is just a ticking time bomb for many clubs. I look at Palace now...full of players taking a massive wage, who couldn't give a toss. We as fans all thought there journey up, and their fans loving the ride, was interesting to watch...reminded me of our season under GJ...bounce effect. I'd hate City to be in that position now. Getting to the Prem for the majority of teams, is like shagging Kylie then having a lifetime of aids. I don't think your Kylie analogy is necessarily fair. Watford, West Brom, Southampton, Stoke, Leicester, Swansea and Bournemouth are all clubs of similar (or smaller) size to City who have gone up and managed to establish themselves in the top division for extended periods of time. Other clubs such as Reading, Norwich and Boro have dropped out but continued to remain competitive at the top end of the Championship. Of course it has gone pear-shaped for some clubs, but I wouldn't say it's a majority - and it's impossible for every club to be successful all the time anyway.
downendcity Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 3 hours ago, spudski said: It's very stark reading that report. If we ever go up, I really do hope our owner looks at the likes of Burnley, rather than the majority of promoted teams. The 'golden ticket' is just a ticking time bomb for many clubs. I look at Palace now...full of players taking a massive wage, who couldn't give a toss. We as fans all thought there journey up, and their fans loving the ride, was interesting to watch...reminded me of our season under GJ...bounce effect. I'd hate City to be in that position now. Getting to the Prem for the majority of teams, is like shagging Kylie then having a lifetime of aids. If we do gain promotion, then I hope the current philosophy will continue. In particular looking for players with the right DNA. I know it's often been derided on here, but it does feel that we have a group of players who care about playing for the club. Yes they will be looking to further their careers, and possibly that will happen elsewhere, but our player recruitment policy means we will benefit financially if they do. In the meantime the main thing is that they are giving the club 100%. It will be more difficult at premier league level, but if this season has taught us anything it ids that you don't necessarily need players with "proven championship experience", and certainly not when it comes to strikers. Perhaps would could do the same at a higher level?
Drew Peacock Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 18 hours ago, oldrosie said: Would most fans know the difference between turnover, revenue, net and gross profit? What is the difference between turnover and revenue?
downendcity Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said: What is the difference between turnover and revenue? You can make an apple turnover?
City Ben Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said: What is the difference between turnover and revenue? For most intents and purposes there isn't one. Use the two interchangeably. (However... I think if any fellow accountants want to get super techy about it, a change in accounting standards a while back phased out the word turnover. If memory serves, at the same time that the P&L became the Income Statement. This might be the most boring thing ever written on OTIB.)
City Ben Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, downendcity said: You can make an apple turnover? This is much better than my answer.
downendcity Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, City Ben said: This is much better than my answer. That's because I'm not an Accountant!
spudski Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 4 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: I don't think your Kylie analogy is necessarily fair. Watford, West Brom, Southampton, Stoke, Leicester, Swansea and Bournemouth are all clubs of similar (or smaller) size to City who have gone up and managed to establish themselves in the top division for extended periods of time. Other clubs such as Reading, Norwich and Boro have dropped out but continued to remain competitive at the top end of the Championship. Of course it has gone pear-shaped for some clubs, but I wouldn't say it's a majority - and it's impossible for every club to be successful all the time anyway. Look at in the context of that report mate...and what it actually says about the financial state of the majority of clubs that have got promoted...you'll get my drift then ;-)
Kingswood Robin Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 3 hours ago, City Ben said: For most intents and purposes there isn't one. Use the two interchangeably. (However... I think if any fellow accountants want to get super techy about it, a change in accounting standards a while back phased out the word turnover. If memory serves, at the same time that the P&L became the Income Statement. This might be the most boring thing ever written on OTIB.) Largely true in the UK, not so in the US. In the US their definition of revenue is what I would call gross margin.
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 10 hours ago, spudski said: It's very stark reading that report. If we ever go up, I really do hope our owner looks at the likes of Burnley, rather than the majority of promoted teams. The 'golden ticket' is just a ticking time bomb for many clubs. I look at Palace now...full of players taking a massive wage, who couldn't give a toss. We as fans all thought there journey up, and their fans loving the ride, was interesting to watch...reminded me of our season under GJ...bounce effect. I'd hate City to be in that position now. Getting to the Prem for the majority of teams, is like shagging Kylie then having a lifetime of aids. I`ve said it many times and still believe it. The journey is much more enjoyable than the destination.
Xspence Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 Spent third most? But we are sat in 4th, clearly underachieving..... Johnson out! Jokes aside this seems to be from before the rebuild so gates and matchday turnover so much less. Also we have a literal multi billionaire owner...think we are ok. What really worries me is the hope I have for this season.....
Phileas Fogg Posted October 12, 2017 Posted October 12, 2017 Hello @old_eastender you never came back to this thread
old_eastender Posted October 12, 2017 Author Posted October 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Hello @old_eastender you never came back to this thread Hello, yes my bad. The spend table headline said from 2016 and if as others have said that means 2015-16 season, the reference I made to the figures showing LJ backing is not valid, my humble apologies. However, the massive investment SL had made since LJ was in charge certainly does make it unjustifiable to repeat last seasons fall from an identical (in terms of games played and points) good start. Let's hope Burton Friday starts that off in the right way with a win.
Phileas Fogg Posted October 12, 2017 Posted October 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, old_eastender said: Hello, yes my bad. The spend table headline said from 2016 and if as others have said that means 2015-16 season, the reference I made to the figures showing LJ backing is not valid, my humble apologies. However, the massive investment SL had made since LJ was in charge certainly does make it unjustifiable to repeat last seasons fall from an identical (in terms of games played and points) good start. Let's hope Burton Friday starts that off in the right way with a win. Fair play, often when people are proven wrong on a thread they never return! I don’t think it’ll happen again, there’s so many variables in football I think it’s a bit pointless comparing two seasons. He has been well backed, I think our squad shows it now. We look a good side with depth and the right mentality.
Mad Cyril Posted October 12, 2017 Posted October 12, 2017 17 hours ago, Red Right Hand said: I`ve said it many times and still believe it. "The journey is much more enjoyable than the destination." * If you are going to steal his quotes could you at least credit the original author. (* Mr Fujisan Nagasaki, Squadron Leader, 23rd Kamikaze, Okinawa, August 1944).
winterbournered Posted October 12, 2017 Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/10/2017 at 19:05, ChippenhamRed said: I keep hearing all the time how much money we've spent in the last couple of years. But this has to be offset against where we started from. After our promotion from L1 we started the season with a squad arguably weaker than the one that had gone up, and needed a large number of loans to make up the numbers. We needed to spend more money than many other teams in the division just to reach parity with them. Just because we've spent more than other teams recently does not mean we should necessarily expect to be doing better than them. In other words, we had to spend more just to catch up. Don't talk sense man...
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