Match Report: The most proud you can be in a 3-0 defeat

[JoeAman08]

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Giving praise is easy. Management is about those 'difficult conversations' one doesn't want to have but must.

Fine wordsmithing apart we should have cut to the chase and said those mentioned, at Championship level, are rubbish. And that's the sorry truth. Let's not look for highlights or excuses, let's move on and get in tools to do the job. Shy, nervous, honest. I don't want to see any of those traits in a City forward. They're adjectival excuses for not being able to cut the mustard. Hopefully that's Johnson's next priority, not easy, talent doesn't grow on trees, doesn't come cheap, but build we must.

Tbf to LJ I think he said as much after Villa. That Taylor, Woodrow and Eliasson would play to make their mark. I am sure he will be frustrated that no one took the chance and perhaps makes him certain that new recruits are needed. 

Though can you read so much into a game where we played 3 teenagers with less than 5 appearances between them at the start? Eliasson may have been told not to take many chances so he can help young Kelly out. Then our forwards are trying to get service from an 18 year old winger and a 19 year old midfielder(who I thought was a forward!). I am more asking the question to those that were there. Is it fair to be super critical to the sqaud players when so much youth around them? 

Either way, I think it is fantastic that all our young players got 90 minutes. It will be a game they can think about when training gets tough. Something to work hard for to get another chance like that. Kelly and Vyner got another 90 min each of mens football. They have both been screwed by the new loan rules so any minutes are good ones for them. Eliasson the same. Think he will look more the part with Fam and Milan back. Gives him big targets to aim for with crosses. 

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I was around many years back but for some reason my account stopped working (followed a forum reformat.) Mods never did respond as to why? By chance something cropped up a few months back that I wanted to respond to and, strangely, my account was once again working.

Welcome back.

Just watched the goals back, god, we were miles away from being tight.  We’d get punished by League One teams if we stood off like that, let alone Prem or Champ.

But the mitigation was the team LJ put out.

Would've been nice to see Taylor, Eliasson and Woodrow made their mark, but they missed their chance.

[cidered abroad]

Some extremely interesting and thoughtful comments.

I feel that we have come a long way in the five years since I returned from Portugal.

Who did what and who didn't are mostly matters of opinion. So I'll throw this in as a thought provoked.

Some ten minutes before end of match, with Watford winning 2-0, they brought on Richarlison, their leading scorer I believe. That one act alone, could be seen as a big complement to how we were performing with the Watford coach wanting to "kill us off" and not facing a last ten minutes hanging on at 2-1.

Would we have done the same if we'd been 2-0 up at home to Yeovil or would we have put a defensive midfielder on?

[Olé]

22 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Thanks @Olé and @BTRFTG nice to get 2 opinions .
One thing, and I have my ever hopeful hat on , I'd give Eliasson more time. We had seen glimpses, few and far between maybe , but a few signs. I say this because of this years compared to last. Brownhill , ODowda , Patterson and even Joe Bryan were written of , or at least criticised last year . This year they are looking quality. Eliasson has a change of Country,Laegue and team to contend with, along with different styles and coaching.

That's exactly how I feel about Eliasson - the way he changed the Hull game still sticks in the memory. We've never had a consistently good crosser of the ball with two good feet and he simply needs a bit of work the same as O'Dowda did, which is why we've used him sparingly - in fact I'd say Eliasson actually has more natural ability and confidence than O'Dowda had when he first joined, he is deceptively stronger on the ball than he looks (he looks like he could be dispossessed by a gust of wind, but not often is), and importantly he also looks coachable - willing and able to learn. In other words he's a brilliant "project" to create a very valuable player. 

On the other hand @BTRFTG is right about the others. Taylor and Woodrow were poor and by now Woodrow has had more than enough time to show he is not up to the standard and doesn't suit our style of play at all - he's what Americans call a "tweener" (short for inbetweener) - he is neither a Duric nor a Reid, or in Gary Johnson terms he is not simply another club in the golf bag, because I'm not sure what circumstances you'd choose him. The one thing I will say is I did give both a 5, and all my ratings reflected the standard even if my storyline didn't - and therein BTR has hit upon something which I hoped was well known - I pick a theme and tell the story on that basis.

The theme to me was that a lot of young players came in and were not disgraced - they knew their roles, played with a shape consistent with the first team and to my eye played at a far higher natural standard than some of the teenage debutants we have had in years gone by - particularly given the number all starting yesterday. And in the context of selections for the match, and the expectations we had, I made the tone of the story one about praise. So in that regard BTR is correct about wordsmithing, but hopefully people know me enough by now to know that's the style - try to link everything to an overall theme (positive or negative), with only brief call outs for exceptions.  

I don't think we really have different opinions, I just wrapped everything up into one abiding tone and takeaway from the game. 

[BTRFTG]

The point I made about Elliasson was that Johnson needs to put up or shut up and show us exactly what these amazing talents are he possesses on the training field, given they're signally absent from the match environment. He's young(ish) but at 22 there are many younger regularly cutting it at our level and higher so let's not look at age being an excuse. He's had 4 starts and 10 sub appearances and had one decent game. If he was that good he'd have had more game time. In the rest he's delivered now't.

Over the years we've had more 'one for the future' who thereafter rapidly ended up in non-league. The most technically gifted lad we had was Aaron Brown who in pre-match looked a world beater. Recall at Wycombe, shortly before he left and when all and sundry, bar me, were on his back being asked to defend why I thought he was so special, which in truth was becoming an untenable position. Reluctantly, I agreed I no longer could for the gent in front to concur. His father. Like Johnson he opined lovingly of the magic his son delivered when the pressure was off and dolefully conceded that, for some unknown reason, he simply was unable to perform come kick off. If Elliason is likewise we quickly need to find out or move on.