There is a problem

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So if people would have Magnússon left back and Bryan left wing. What do we do when everyone is fit? Drop Bryan? I'm guessing most people would want diedhiou back in with Reid up top. So where do we play Paterson? Surely he has to play.

Fair point

Dont forget Kent who I assume has not been brought in to warm the bench 

Add Eliasson and COD to come back albeit probably on RHS.....

Was surprised that Lee had a wide man down as a priority tbh

 

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

I agree with your principles, but not with your conclusions. 

Delay. Yes, the cross is delayed, but by Kent recovering, not Bryan. 

Depth. I agree, Bryan has correctly provided depth to support his centre backs. 

Deny. Someone must deny Maddison space. Who? Well, Joe was the player responsible for him when the cross-field ball was hit, so he knows that the rest of the midfield were on the wrong side of Maddison who has cleverly found space. As Joe’s responsibilities wide were covered by Kent, it’s now no longer a question of positional principals, it’s a matter of quickness of thought and awareness. 

If you watch closely, Maddison realises he is beyond the midfield and that his previous marker (Joe) has gone back. As the ball goes across field, Maddison cleverly takes a look behind him, notices that he’s 10 yards ahead of the midfield and makes the angle for the cut back. Baker spots this straight away and looks desperate to get out there, but he knows that his responsibility is to guard the near post from a cross. Joe takes longer than Baker to suss the danger posed from Maddison’s run, and then when he does spot it, he leaves it to Baker to attempt to close down. As I said, at some point, your ‘coached’ processes have to go out of the window and you have to rely on pure instinct, awareness and quickness of thought to sense danger. Baker did, Joe didn’t. 

If you watch it back Harry, you will notice that it was Kents mistake that led to the whole build up of the goal. If he had tracked his man, the crossfield pass would never have been on, and the pass to centre midfield option snuffed out by Bryan and Baker.

You are correct in what you say about Baker realising the upcoming pass inside. You can see him look, whilst JB is still ball watching. It takes him a full two seonds to do the same, which by this time is too late to react.

He's not a defender by nature...he hasn't got those instincts ingrained. You can see the turn of head and vision of Baker...ingrained. JB still learning.

[Dr Balls]

48 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

But Man U pass aside, that is it for the season.

 He has been absolutely desperate in a number of successive league appearances now (plus at Watford too, apparently) and is approaching the anniversary of his last league goal for us. I know signing him was funny because of Roverzz and all that, but fact is he is miles out of his depth in this league. When Darrell Clarke said no other team in this division would sign him, he was (unusually) telling the truth.

Today,  he picks up the ball, goes past two players and then kicks it off the pitch, then late on when a cross comes in from the right, he does his trademark completely miss the ball when stood on the six yard box.

Pack has the ball, goes to give it to him and he's wondered off, so we lose possession. No wonder Engvall is said to want out if he is in front of him.

Sad thing is, it has been obvious for a few weeks now that LJ is itching to drop Maggers, how else can you explain the regular subbing in games of your fit left back?

Agree with all of the above. Taylor would not be an attacking option for any other club in this division.  He just don't look like he is going to score. He doesn't even shoot when he has an opportunity, like today when he had a Garson the defender but still managed to be tackled without getting a shot away.

I appreciate that LJ sees the players in training but surely Engvall is worth a go. From the evidence of the Watford game both Engvall & Hinds should be ahead of Taylor (and Woodrow) in the striker pecking order.

As for Magnússon, it's clear that LJ doesn't really rate him. No he doesn't bomb forward like Bryan but he is more secure defensively & he always gives his all. It's a shame as after starting a number of games in succession he seemed to have gained in confidence as well.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So if people would have Magnússon left back and Bryan left wing. What do we do when everyone is fit? Drop Bryan? I'm guessing most people would want diedhiou back in with Reid up top. So where do we play Paterson? Surely he has to play.

....and what happens when Pisano and O’Dowda are back?  Tough decisions, but who knows, someone else might be injured, suspended, out of form etc.

We’ve identified a way of playing without Diedhiou (or Djúric), with Reid up-top on his own, and Pato in behind, necessitating Bryan and Magnússon down the Left.  We’ve changed our style a little as a result.

Lee will know in his head if everyone is fit, what eleven he’ll play for each game.  We can be flexible.  I expect there’ll be a fair bit of debate on here as to what his best side is.

There are going to be a couple of players who aren’t gonna make the 18 very often at all.

 

[Cowshed]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

I agree with your principles, but not with your conclusions. 

Delay. Yes, the cross is delayed, but by Kent recovering, not Bryan. 

Depth. I agree, Bryan has correctly provided depth to support his centre backs. 

Deny. Someone must deny Maddison space. Who? Well, Joe was the player responsible for him when the cross-field ball was hit, so he knows that the rest of the midfield were on the wrong side of Maddison who has cleverly found space. As Joe’s responsibilities wide were covered by Kent, it’s now no longer a question of positional principals, it’s a matter of quickness of thought and awareness. 

If you watch closely, Maddison realises he is beyond the midfield and that his previous marker (Joe) has gone back. As the ball goes across field, Maddison cleverly takes a look behind him, notices that he’s 10 yards ahead of the midfield and makes the angle for the cut back. Baker spots this straight away and looks desperate to get out there, but he knows that his responsibility is to guard the near post from a cross. Joe takes longer than Baker to suss the danger posed from Maddison’s run, and then when he does spot it, he leaves it to Baker to attempt to close down. As I said, at some point, your ‘coached’ processes have to go out of the window and you have to rely on pure instinct, awareness and quickness of thought to sense danger. Baker did, Joe didn’t. 

Actually you have not agreed with not my but basic coaching principles. Bryans position is dictated by the ball and man then the first defender, not the central defenders. Bryan correctly (and yes he could be closer) provides support to Kent. The player in possession was originally in advance of Kent, Bryan covers that position. What transitions behind him is down to others and their lack of support and recovery. It was other players who did not assess the position correctly. The central midfield did not recover, and did not control the space, central defenders also could have looked to that space because there is NO need to provide even more depth - Bryan had done this and tucked in.

Joe Bryan was not the cause of this goal. He is no dynamo the magician x Phillip Lahm you think he should be.

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Agree with all of the above. Taylor would not be an attacking option for any other club in this division.  He just don't look like he is going to score. He doesn't even shoot when he has an opportunity, like today when he had a Garson the defender but still managed to be tackled without getting a shot away.

I appreciate that LJ sees the players in training but surely Engvall is worth a go. From the evidence of the Watford game both Engvall & Hinds should be ahead of Taylor (and Woodrow) in the striker pecking order.

As for Magnússon, it's clear that LJ doesn't really rate him. No he doesn't bomb forward like Bryan but he is more secure defensively & he always gives his all. It's a shame as after starting a number of games in succession he seemed to have gained in confidence as well.

Agree with every word of that.

[WECANDO]

Anyone think that young Walsh reminded them of Tommy Doherty? That slight leaning forward way of running and style of play. 

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

You are correct in what you say about Baker realising the upcoming pass inside. You can see him look, whilst JB is still ball watching. It takes him a full two seonds to do the same, which by this time is too late to react.

He's not a defender by nature...he hasn't got those instincts ingrained. You can see the turn of head and vision of Baker...ingrained. JB still learning.

100%. This is where my critique of Bryan comes from. Which many on here misunderstand as me just “not liking him”. Not true, I’ve said many times that he’s a very talented footballer, but as a left back, his instincts are simply not there. 

The difference between a good defender and an average defender is the natural instinct to sense danger and quell it, to have quickness of thought as well as quickness in recovery of shape/position etc. 

Joe is a great footballer technically and physically. He does however lack the speed of thought, awareness, instinctiveness to be a top class defender. 

Your opening comment in this thread stands out a mile to me - you weren’t at the game but you knew that the goal was most likely to have come down our left. Speaks volumes at the defensive awareness of JB. 

It is our weak spot in my opinion. And look at the way Maddison switched onto it. Maddison displayed in one moment why he’s hugely rated - awareness, speed of thought, 2 moves ahead of his opponents (as well as precision in execution). Whilst Joe is a good player, I still find it astonishing that he’s touted as a multi-million pounds-worthy full back. 

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

100%. This is where my critique of Bryan comes from. Which many on here misunderstand as me just “not liking him”. Not true, I’ve said many times that he’s a very talented footballer, but as a left back, his instincts are simply not there. 

The difference between a good defender and an average defender is the natural instinct to sense danger and quell it, to have quickness of thought as well as quickness in recovery of shape/position etc. 

Joe is a great footballer technically and physically. He does however lack the speed of thought, awareness, instinctiveness to be a top class defender. 

Your opening comment in this thread stands out a mile to me - you weren’t at the game but you knew that the goal was most likely to have come down our left. Speaks volumes at the defensive awareness of JB. 

It is our weak spot in my opinion. And look at the way Maddison switched onto it. Maddison displayed in one moment why he’s hugely rated - awareness, speed of thought, 2 moves ahead of his opponents (as well as precision in execution). Whilst Joe is a good player, I still find it astonishing that he’s touted as a multi-million pounds-worthy full back. 

I will go 110% mate...totally this.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah Kent will certainly be starting a lot of games. My main point is that Bryan will not be played on the left of midfield ever now we have all these other options. So I guess people that don't rate Bryan would drop him altogether. Did even one person on here not rate him as a left back a month or so back?

 

What would your full strength team be?

EDIT. sorry Dave, accidentally quoted wrong person

If everyone fit, and in form?  Say against a team in the top 10, who aren’t gonna park the bus?

then:

Fielding

Pisano, Flint, Baker, Bryan

Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson

Reid

Diedhiou

Subs: Steele, Magnússon, O’Dowda, Walsh, Woodrow, O’Neil, Kent, 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

100%. This is where my critique of Bryan comes from. Which many on here misunderstand as me just “not liking him”. Not true, I’ve said many times that he’s a very talented footballer, but as a left back, his instincts are simply not there. 

The difference between a good defender and an average defender is the natural instinct to sense danger and quell it, to have quickness of thought as well as quickness in recovery of shape/position etc. 

Joe is a great footballer technically and physically. He does however lack the speed of thought, awareness, instinctiveness to be a top class defender. 

Your opening comment in this thread stands out a mile to me - you weren’t at the game but you knew that the goal was most likely to have come down our left. Speaks volumes at the defensive awareness of JB. 

It is our weak spot in my opinion. And look at the way Maddison switched onto it. Maddison displayed in one moment why he’s hugely rated - awareness, speed of thought, 2 moves ahead of his opponents (as well as precision in execution). Whilst Joe is a good player, I still find it astonishing that he’s touted as a multi-million pounds-worthy full back. 

Don’t disagree, but think he made improvements in this area since last season.

If he had Pisano’s nose for danger (not the nose that would spoil his looks), he would indeed be multi-millions.

[joe jordans teeth]

3 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

So we buy Grabban for £8m to cover the 3 or 4 weeks until Diedhiou is available then Djuric a couple of weeks later when only one of them will get in the side max? Doesn't make sense. Also if we lose at Derby it's not all over for second, still plenty of games left.

Personally I think we'll finish 4th or 5th which will still be a good season with a chance of promotion. We are paying the price of our cup run but who on here would rather we hadn't had it?

The people who suddenly turned up for the United game definitely wouldn’t  I guess 

[Up The City!]

Pissed off we lost but pleased with the performance. On another day we win that but we were missing that little bit of quality up front, however we did have chances.

Norwich came and like many others were not interested in playing and instead just hoping to hit us on the counter and it worked.

Time to forget about this one and move onto the next game.

[Sixtyseconds]

The negative scrutiny of Bryan.

Every move.

The Lad must fear the rustling of bushes in his garden

[Dr Balls]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If everyone fit, and in form?  Say against a team in the top 10, who aren’t gonna park the bus?

then:

Fielding

Pisano, Flint, Baker, Bryan

Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson

Reid

Diedhiou

Subs: Steele, Magnússon, O’Dowda, Walsh, Woodrow, O’Neil, Kent, 

My main concern with that side remains down the left side of defence. Paterson did a lot of pointing at Pinto today, when their player was in acres of space further wide than Joe. Not surprisingly most of their attacks came down that side.

The other problem with that team is that Bailey Wright is team captain & LJ obviously rates him. Baker was bought to replace Flint but together they are a hell of a centre back combination, and I would agree that you wouldn't want to split that.

Plus I would have Djuric (if fit) ahead of Woodrow on the bench.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

That's a decent looking side. I asked you thinking you were someone else who's been saying Bryan is not a left back. Wonder if the people that would have Magnússon at left back would drop Bryan when everyone is fit. I think your team isn't  far off what Johnson plans apart from I think Johnson will probably look to play Josh centrally alongside smith. Just going by what he's done before, I'm sure he likes Josh in the middle more than pack. And then I think it's a question of whether he plays odowda or Kent on the right. But like you say, he will play different line ups and different systems. As long as he changes this Reid up top on his own tactic, as teams seem to have sussed us out.

I don’t mind Reid up top on his own (with say Pato floating), but it requires services.  You can play 2 up, but if the service is poor, it doesn’t matter how many you play up there!  Johnson likes to create mismatches.  I wasn’t there today, but I gather Norwich played 3 big CBs up against Reid.  To my mind Reid needs to be the sacrifice and accept he’s gonna work his nuts off running the three around for little personal benefit.  A few long shots starts to make them think they might need to push a CB out, and then you create the space for little balls in behind, down the sides.  But if you don’t move them around, and take them away from being a big, physical flat three, all you can do is play in front of them.

Its How Reading broke us down last season at home.

I’m guessing that we got a little frustrated, lost our shape (for whatever reason) a little, and they seemed to play on the break.  Perfect away performance.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

My main concern with that side remains down the left side of defence. Paterson did a lot of pointing at Pinto today, when their player was in acres of space further wide than Joe. Not surprisingly most of their attacks came down that side.

yep, no team is perfect, no set-up is perfect, etc.  I’ll accept being lop-sided.

The other problem with that team is that Bailey Wright is team captain & LJ obviously rates him. Baker was bought to replace Flint but together they are a hell of a centre back combination, and I would agree that you wouldn't want to split that.

Dilemma ain’t it. Flint’s goal edge it, plus Wright and Baker have hardly played together to give me enough insight to how they’d play.  Personally I think they’s Be good!

Plus I would have Djuric (if fit) ahead of Woodrow on the bench.

Ah, bollox, you always miss one....swap for O’Neil. I like Woodrow.  I’d give him a chance.

See above.

He he - It’s my team....not saying it’s what LJ would do! 

[Dr Balls]

18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

That's a decent looking side. I asked you thinking you were someone else who's been saying Bryan is not a left back. Wonder if the people that would have Magnússon at left back would drop Bryan when everyone is fit. I think your team isn't  far off what Johnson plans apart from I think Johnson will probably look to play Josh centrally alongside smith. Just going by what he's done before, I'm sure he likes Josh in the middle more than pack. And then I think it's a question of whether he plays odowda or Kent on the right. But like you say, he will play different line ups and different systems. As long as he changes this Reid up top on his own tactic, as teams seem to have sussed us out.

Brownhill provides more energy in central midfield while Pack provides more control. The funny thing about Pack is that his contributions seem to be most appreciated when he doesn't play! He enjoys that "water carrier" role, bringing the ball out of defence, then acting like a quarterback trying to work out where to play it next. If he isn't there, Korey has to play that role but he doesn't quite have Marlon's vision or his defensive headers.

As for how to play Magnússon & Bryan, and who to leave out, the one at risk would be Paterson. I don't think he had his best game today either, in part because Walsh also kept coming into the middle and taking up the positions Pato usually inhabits.

I think LJ"s instincts are to always set out to attack, so your selection maybe close to his thoughts. What will be really interesting is to see the side he puts out at Pride Park. I would play the team we played at the Etihad as with the current injuries I still think that that is our strongest team & set up.

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t mind Reid up top on his own (with say Pato floating), but it requires services.  You can play 2 up, but if the service is poor, it doesn’t matter how many you play up there!  Johnson likes to create mismatches.  I wasn’t there today, but I gather Norwich played 3 big CBs up against Reid.  To my mind Reid needs to be the sacrifice and accept he’s gonna work his nuts off running the three around for little personal benefit.  A few long shots starts to make them think they might need to push a CB out, and then you create the space for little balls in behind, down the sides.  But if you don’t move them around, and take them away from being a big, physical flat three, all you can do is play in front of them.

Its How Reading broke us down last season at home.

I’m guessing that we got a little frustrated, lost our shape (for whatever reason) a little, and they seemed to play on the break.  Perfect away performance.

What we didn’t do Dave was get midfield runners running ahead of the ball save Korey on a few occasions -Walsh and Pack (Who rarely ever doesjnever got ahead of the ball and I felt playing three in threre two should have been positive in doing so

( I assume that the plan was for Josh and Patto to come in and join in with Bobby but that never happened in all honesty )

Bobby ran and huffed and puffed but the service into him was poor and rarely to feet

We never shifted or moved around or disrupted their three centre backs at any point

 

i do wonder whether all the hype and (good) publicity about us may be working against us , both the amount of exposure and in ensuring sides are well prepared and plannned when they meet us and getting them ‘up’ for meeting us

 

 

[spudski]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If everyone fit, and in form?  Say against a team in the top 10, who aren’t gonna park the bus?

then:

Fielding

Pisano, Flint, Baker, Bryan

Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson

Reid

Diedhiou

Subs: Steele, Magnússon, O’Dowda, Walsh, Woodrow, O’Neil, Kent, 

You'd drop Wright completely Dave?

For me....

-----------------------------------------------------Fielding---------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------Wright----------------------------Flint------------------------------Baker--------------------------

-----------------------------------Smith-------------------------------Pack/Walsh----------------------------------

---Brownhill-----------------------Reid---------------------------Kent-----------------------------------Bryan----

--------------------------------------------------Famara/Duric--------------------------------------------------------

 

Subs.....to fit.

[Davefevs]

I’d start with the same starting eleven as for the Etihad too.  Make the new boys work for their place.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

You'd drop Wright completely Dave?

For me....

-----------------------------------------------------Fielding---------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------Wright----------------------------Flint------------------------------Baker--------------------------

-----------------------------------Smith-------------------------------Pack/Walsh----------------------------------

---Brownhill-----------------------Reid---------------------------Kent-----------------------------------Bryan----

--------------------------------------------------Famara/Duric--------------------------------------------------------

 

Subs.....to fit.

Ah, bollox again, he’d be on the bench, leave Kent out!  

So to reconfirm

Fielding

Pisano, Flint, Baker, Brysn

Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson

Reid,

Diedhiou

Subs: Steele, Wright, Magnússon, O’Dowda, Walsh, Woodrow, Djúric.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

You'd drop Wright completely Dave?

For me....

-----------------------------------------------------Fielding---------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------Wright----------------------------Flint------------------------------Baker--------------------------

-----------------------------------Smith-------------------------------Pack/Walsh----------------------------------

---Brownhill-----------------------Reid---------------------------Kent-----------------------------------Bryan----

--------------------------------------------------Famara/Duric--------------------------------------------------------

 

Subs.....to fit.

I really like a back 3 and wingbacks, loved playing in it too.  It’s your side....with all formations, depends what it’s up against.

My 4411 vs your 3241....interesting!  Lots of pros and cons to each!

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ah, bollox again, he’d be on the bench, leave Kent out!  

So to reconfirm

Fielding

Pisano, Flint, Baker, Brysn

Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson

Reid,

Diedhiou

Subs: Steele, Wright, Magnússon, O’Dowda, Walsh, Woodrow, Djúric.

May be controversial on here but not sure Josh is regularly effecting games and not sure he’d be in my starting 11 when all fit  

[Dr Balls]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ah, bollox again, he’d be on the bench, leave Kent out!  

So to reconfirm

Fielding

Pisano, Flint, Baker, Brysn

Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson

Reid,

Diedhiou

Subs: Steele, Wright, Magnússon, O’Dowda, Walsh, Woodrow, Djúric.

Better save our pennies to pay Liverpool compensation then, if no Kent!

As long as we get the O'Dowda who was playing just before he got injured. And I agree that GO'N surplus to requirements on the bench.

 

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ah, bollox again, he’d be on the bench, leave Kent out!  

So to reconfirm

Fielding

Pisano, Flint, Baker, Brysn

Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson

Reid,

Diedhiou

Subs: Steele, Wright, Magnússon, O’Dowda, Walsh, Woodrow, Djúric.

With that line up, you leave Taylor, Kent, Kelly, Vyner out....whilst having no problem with that, it just goes to show how hard its going to be for LJ in coming months, as there will be players left out of the match day squad.

Who remembers Di Giralamo? (spelling)

[Dr Balls]

17 minutes ago, spudski said:

With that line up, you leave Taylor, Kent, Kelly, Vyner out....whilst having no problem with that, it just goes to show how hard its going to be for LJ in coming months, as there will be players left out of the match day squad.

Who remembers Di Giralamo? (spelling)

Not LJ it would seem. He's even behind Engvall in the pecking order!

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

With that line up, you leave Taylor, Kent, Kelly, Vyner out....whilst having no problem with that, it just goes to show how hard its going to be for LJ in coming months, as there will be players left out of the match day squad.

Who remembers Di Giralamo? (spelling)

From that group Spud

Id be surprised if Kent is not involved (Although Lee seemed dissapointed with his appearance today)

As for the others he’s made it fairly clear that he doesn’t want to have to use Vyner and to a lesser extent Kelly atm

As for a Taylor I think he’s been glad to have at least ‘a forward’ on the bench but honestly believe that he wouldn’t be trying to find a place for him if we had other options

So not too many dilemmas squad wise ,and that’s with everyone fit 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

May be controversial on here but not sure Josh is regularly effecting games and not sure he’d be in my starting 11 when all fit  

In my lopsided tactic / style, Brownhill will play narrow, and allow Pisano to overlap when we play down that side. Same on other side when Pato drifts infield, Bryan overlaps.

Said in a Post a while back, that in my team, we attack with width (not necessarily wingers), and at least one if not both Pack and Smith stay home.  We still attack with 6, just made up of Full-Backs, wide midfielders and front 2.

With our current 4 x CB back 4, we attack as a front 6.  Different emphasis.

With the players we have that’s my philosophy.

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

From that group Spud

Id be surprised if Kent is not involved (Although Lee seemed dissapointed with his appearance today)

As for the others he’s made it fairly clear that he doesn’t want to have to use Vyner and to a lesser extent Kelly atm

As for a Taylor I think he’s been glad to have at least ‘a forward’ on the bench but honestly believe that he wouldn’t be trying to find a place for him if we had other options

So not too many dilemmas squad wise ,and that’s with everyone fit 

I hope to be proved wrong....but I'm struggling to see how Kent fits in with our style of play.

We've also forgotten about Elliason in the bigger picture.

Magners, Kent, Woodrow, Elliason, Hegeler, Taylor, Odowda, Kelly, Vyner, Duric/Famara, Oneil, Pisano...all competing for places or coming back...a few will be disappointed.