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If we appointed Warnock in Feb 2016....where would we be now?

tinman85

By tinman85
in Football Chat

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JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Redland said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-really-long-ball-1258303

If you make more passes it stands to reason you will make more long passes, very basic logic there, but you have to start somewhere.

We make nearly 200 more passes per game than Cardiff, but only about 12 more long passes, perhaps that is simpler for you.

If not, try this... 19% is less than 25%.

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Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

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8 minutes ago, Redland said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-really-long-ball-1258303

If you actually read the article, it counters your own implied point

‘And the Robins come second for accurate long balls in the division having hit a total of 1,216 this season so far. Reading have hit the most accurate long balls: 1,273 in total.’

Surely it would be a problem if we were bottom of that rating.. and look who is.. 

“Cardiff City for comparison have hit 804 - the least in the division“

Gregor McG has written that article in a rather misleading way.

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Galley is our king

Galley is our king

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9 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Full story on passes. (Source Whoscored.com)

Bristol City:

Passes per game 435.5

Accurate Long Balls per game 36.8

Inaccurate Long Balls per game 46.8

Long Ball accuracy 44%

Accurate Short Passes per game 284

Inaccuate Short Passes per game 67.8

Short Passing accuracy 81%

Percentage of passes being Long Ball 19%

 

Cardiff City

Passes per game 287.1

Accurate Long Balls per game 24.4

Inaccurate Long Balls per game 48.6

Long Ball accuracy 33%

Accurate Short Passes per game 150

Incaccurate Short Passes per game 64.2

Short Passing accuracy 70%

Percentage of passes being Long Ball 25%

 

 

A quarter of Cardiffs play is a long ball, less than 1/5 of ours is.

Excellent work and stats to bring this ridiculous and boring thread to an end.

Even if these were the other way around, I would still hate with an absolute passion that cretinous, horrible, bastard Warnock!

Thankfully we have better people running our club than some of the people that so say support it.

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If you actually read the article, it counters your own implied point

‘And the Robins come second for accurate long balls in the division having hit a total of 1,216 this season so far. Reading have hit the most accurate long balls: 1,273 in total.’

Surely it would be a problem if we were bottom of that rating.. and look who is.. 

“Cardiff City for comparison have hit 804 - the least in the division“

Gregor McG has written that article in a rather misleading way.

No surprise there.

I know this is wondering off topic but when I try to read the Post two things always strike me;

The articles on us are written as if from a neutral perspective, contrast that when you read the regional papers of Championship rivals.

Secondly there is always a sneery tone, verging on clickbait which is looking to provoke a reaction from our supporters.

I don’t believe anyone at that paper has more than a professional “interest” in us.

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Redland

Redland

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9 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

If you make more passes it stands to reason you will make more long passes, very basic logic there, but you have to start somewhere.

We make nearly 200 more passes per game than Cardiff, but only about 12 more long passes, perhaps that is simpler for you.

If not, try this... 19% is less than 25%.

Well, you could always look at the ultimate statistic - the league table. 

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BCFC Rich

BCFC Rich

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Long diagonal balls are actually a big part of the high press. It is even used regularly by Barcelona. The idea is to pull the defense to one side and create space. If the long ball is accurate then the ball is recycled into the middle to exploit the space or try and exploit the defense getting back into position. If the pass is inaccurate then the high press starts with players out of position. I don't have time right now but if you look can find La Liga stats Barce will probably be top 5 or at the very least top ten for Accurate long balls. It's actually bizarrely part of the system. 

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Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

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7 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Long diagonal balls are actually a big part of the high press. It is even used regularly by Barcelona. The idea is to pull the defense to one side and create space. If the long ball is accurate then the ball is recycled into the middle to exploit the space or try and exploit the defense getting back into position. If the pass is inaccurate then the high press starts with players out of position. I don't have time right now but if you look can find La Liga stats Barce will probably be top 5 or at the very least top ten for Accurate long balls. It's actually bizarrely part of the system. 

Exactly. "Long balls" have this negative connotation but I think they can be very effective. A non-satisfactory long ball would be when Fielding loses possession from a poor goal kick, so frustrating to watch.

Brilliant long balls are the sort that Paul Hartley used to regularly ping out, or Tinnion releasing Murray on the other wing with pin-point accuracy.. it's all about how you execute them.

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BS4 on Tour...

BS4 on Tour...

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2 hours ago, Redland said:

I don't want an argument. Just think there is a presumption on this forum that Warnock is bad and Johnson is good whereas the stats and the league table don't necessarily correspond to this. 

Totally agree Chief....I’ve watched Glenn Hoddle play zillions of long balls over the years, he did it because he was a phenomenal passer of a football...no one has ever said the Spurs teams, of which he was a part, were ‘long ball’ merchants....

As @Phileas Foggrightly pointed out, long balls aren’t automatically ‘bad’....discussing stats and having spats (that rhymes!) based on ‘Cardiff play more long balls than us based on percentages’ are pointless and mean nothing....Tinman used to bang loads of long balls over the heads of opposing left backs for Scotty to run onto....did City fans condemn our team for that tactic? No, because it worked and was a thing of beauty....

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Swede

Swede

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On 23/02/2018 at 18:30, Jack Dawe said:

 

If you don't want to know the current standings in the Fair Play table, look away now:

Er, Cardiff are 6th and we are 21st (only three teams "naughtier" than us).

Leaving aside how he did it, what he did - the results he got - at Rotherham was bloody miraculous. And you know it!

 

If his wage bill is 2nd highest out of 24, then he is delivering and providing value for money - not to be sniffed at. If his wage bill is 5th, 6th or lower out of 24, he is over-delivering. I have no idea where he sits in the budget/wages table.

Also, is it realistic to ask LJ to deliver promotion if our wage bill is bottom half in the Championship, and with such a young squad? Do younger teams/squads win promotion from this league, or is it mostly the more experienced ones? (I have no idea).

 

Obviously editing other poster's comments to enhance your opinion is a little irksome.

I also stated that you only have to listen to Pep Guardiola's post match comments on both teams for a balanced opinion or didn't you read that bit.

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Ian M

Ian M

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On 22/02/2018 at 23:04, tinman85 said:

They are 2nd and 10 ahead of us. I find that soul destroying. Would Cardiff have thrown away Leeds and Sunderland?

You find 6th place in the Championship soul destroying? Are you sure you shouldn't be supporting whoever is top of the Prem this week?

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tinman85

tinman85

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7 minutes ago, Ian M said:

You find 6th place in the Championship soul destroying? Are you sure you shouldn't be supporting whoever is top of the Prem this week?

Ridiculous comment. It seems you cannot say anything on here sometimes. This is called a forum. In life people have different opinions on matters, ever watched Question Time? Amazing how as son as someone expresses discontent of any form they are a Gas Head or a Premier League fan. Some people are content in life. Some people are always looking for the next best thing. Me personally I'm an ambitious person. I don't want to settle for mediocrity. I wanted Warnock in 2016. I strongly believed we would have been promoted last season. I also believe we would have played good football and he would have developed young players like he did with Kyle Walker, Taarabt, Jagielka and many more. Mate of mine was a youth player at Sheff U and spoke highly of him. End of the day he isn't here. LJ is. Am I an LJ fan? I wasn't last season. I was calling for his head as many others were. Would I want him gone now? No that would be silly but I also don't think he is perfect. COYR today. I'm a city fan so hope we batter them. 

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Ian M

Ian M

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12 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

Ridiculous comment. It seems you cannot say anything on here sometimes. This is called a forum. In life people have different opinions on matters, ever watched Question Time? Amazing how as son as someone expresses discontent of any form they are a Gas Head or a Premier League fan. Some people are content in life. Some people are always looking for the next best thing. Me personally I'm an ambitious person. I don't want to settle for mediocrity. I wanted Warnock in 2016. I strongly believed we would have been promoted last season. I also believe we would have played good football and he would have developed young players like he did with Kyle Walker, Taarabt, Jagielka and many more. Mate of mine was a youth player at Sheff U and spoke highly of him. End of the day he isn't here. LJ is. Am I an LJ fan? I wasn't last season. I was calling for his head as many others were. Would I want him gone now? No that would be silly but I also don't think he is perfect. COYR today. I'm a city fan so hope we batter them. 

My point wasn't that we shouldn't have ambition but your use of hyperbole in saying you find our current position "soul destroying" ridiculous. If it is your true position, I would humbly suggest you would enjoy life more supporting whoever is currently top of the Prem, not that you do...there's no way I could suggest you follow the Gas, that would require you not to have a soul in the first place!

 

Given your username I'm going ahead and presuming you've been a City fan for a fair while, you will have seen where we have come from and you may be disappointed with 6th place but "soul destroying"? Eat a Snickers man. 

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JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

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26 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

Ridiculous comment. It seems you cannot say anything on here sometimes. This is called a forum. In life people have different opinions on matters, ever watched Question Time? Amazing how as son as someone expresses discontent of any form they are a Gas Head or a Premier League fan. Some people are content in life. Some people are always looking for the next best thing. Me personally I'm an ambitious person. I don't want to settle for mediocrity. I wanted Warnock in 2016. I strongly believed we would have been promoted last season. I also believe we would have played good football and he would have developed young players like he did with Kyle Walker, Taarabt, Jagielka and many more. Mate of mine was a youth player at Sheff U and spoke highly of him. End of the day he isn't here. LJ is. Am I an LJ fan? I wasn't last season. I was calling for his head as many others were. Would I want him gone now? No that would be silly but I also don't think he is perfect. COYR today. I'm a city fan so hope we batter them. 

We could be a division higher than Warnocks Cardiff next season.

To say 6th in the Championship, given where we have been in the last 7-8 years, isn't soul destroying doesn't mean someone doesn't have ambition. It means they have a grip on reality.

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SedRA

SedRA

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51 minutes ago, Ian M said:

My point wasn't that we shouldn't have ambition but your use of hyperbole in saying you find our current position "soul destroying" ridiculous. If it is your true position, I would humbly suggest you would enjoy life more supporting whoever is currently top of the Prem, not that you do...there's no way I could suggest you follow the Gas, that would require you not to have a soul in the first place!

 

Given your username I'm going ahead and presuming you've been a City fan for a fair while, you will have seen where we have come from and you may be disappointed with 6th place but "soul destroying"? Eat a Snickers man. 

Quite. @tinman85, don't use 'I'm an ambitious person' as an excuse for immature impatience and glory hunting mentality. People that are actually successful and achieve their ambitions know that it takes time to create something successful AND sustainable. You're confusing ambition for petulance.

We are a number of steps back from a club like Cardiff in our development, who have been in the championship for a long time now, as well as having a season in the prem. Throwing your toys out of the pram because we're not in Cardiff's position is childish. Maybe you could think about appreciating what great work is going on at the club right now and you might be able to feel part of helping it get to where its going, rather than having a sulk because "i want my prem prems now!"

Sorry to characterise as you as a child so much, but it just comes off that way to me and you try and dress it up some aspirational virtue. 

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SedRA

SedRA

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7 minutes ago, cityfan said:

You may not like his style, but it looks like 3 points for him today, second place in the league and 13 points ahead of City of the game stays 1-0.

Love him or loathe him, he is a brilliant bet for getting you promoted to the Premier League and £100 million.

Could not give a flying ****. If I had to watch that all season I wouldn't bother. That game today showed everything why a lot of people wouldn't want him at our club. 

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cityfan

cityfan

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We all want Bristol City to win and go up, but you have to  acknowledge those who get results and go up.  Would West Brom want Pulis back now to have likely stayed in the Premier?  I reckon so.  Will Everton be delighted that big Sam has kept them up?  I reckon so.  Everyone used to hate Man Utd under Ferguson, because they won everything and it was boring.

I say let's hope City manage the play-offs, but give credit where it is due.  Neil Warnock, somewhat predictably has beaten City today. Hopefully City can capitalise against the lower teams in their run in.

 

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SedRA

SedRA

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3 minutes ago, cityfan said:

We all want Bristol City to win and go up, but you have to  acknowledge those who get results and go up.  Would West Brom want Pulis back now to have likely stayed in the Premier?  I reckon so.  Will Everton be delighted that big Sam has kept them up?  I reckon so.  Everyone used to hate Man Utd under Ferguson, because they won everything and it was boring.

I say let's hope City manage the play-offs, but give credit where it is due.  Neil Warnock, somewhat predictably has beaten City today. Hopefully City can capitalise against the lower teams in their run in.

 

See thats where you don't realise you're projecting your own feelings onto everyone else. There are a lot of things that many fans here would sacrifice for premier league football, but actually many really wouldn't choose guaranteed PL football with Warnock with his awful style and cheating over trying to do it playing good football. 

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Redland

Redland

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18 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Ah good, so just like with this shocking thread a few weeks back you end up getting dabbed on so construct a last minute straw man to try and save face :laughcont:

Just because you don't agree with a thread does not make it "shocking".

As for getting "dabbed on"" I suggest you remind yourself of the title of this thread and then look at the league table. 

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