Mark Ashton was right

[JamesBCFC]

6 minutes ago, hodge said:

Nah its a shambles because we didn't go out and spend £10m plus taking a big risk 

Modern football rules section 5 part c state "that unless a club puts its own future at risk, then no transfer window (neither Summer nor Winter) can be classed as "good" or any synonym thereof".

 

[Bazooka Joe]

6 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Ashton went on to confirm that the club are set up for the long term and are not specifically targeting promotion this season.

This last paragraph seems to have tripped a lot of people up. It’s been twisted to read ‘we don’t want to get promoted this season’ which isn’t what he said at all. The point he was trying to get across was that it’s not ‘now or never’. 

Sure, but now  would suit me fine - and I imagine the same goes for most others.

 

[BCFC Rich]

How many threads are on here right now with the same whiny overall theme - We obviously don't want it enough. LJ should be instilling belief in the players. We should be targetting promotion now. etc etc

The ironic thing is all these people moaning are the ones who have given up and seem to think the season is over (even more ridiculous when you remember if it was to end right now we would be in the playoffs!). 

[Ivorguy]

3 hours ago, BCFC Richard said:

How many threads are on here right now with the same whiny overall theme - We obviously don't want it enough. LJ should be instilling belief in the players. We should be targetting promotion now. etc etc

The ironic thing is all these people moaning are the ones who have given up and seem to think the season is over (even more ridiculous when you remember if it was to end right now we would be in the playoffs!). 

True, the season isn't over.  Hopefully this weekend will see us back to winning ways.  Even were this to happen, as we all hope, it cannot paper over the fact that the last two seasons have included two dreadful runs, including the worst ever in our history.  Many of us began to believe that last season's horrors were the last we would see of such things.  Well we were wrong, and it isn't surprising that many of us are apprehensive about the future.

 

 

 

[Loosey Boy]

4 hours ago, BCFC Richard said:

How many threads are on here right now with the same whiny overall theme - We obviously don't want it enough. LJ should be instilling belief in the players. We should be targetting promotion now. etc etc

The ironic thing is all these people moaning are the ones who have given up and seem to think the season is over (even more ridiculous when you remember if it was to end right now we would be in the playoffs!). 

Let's hope that on Saturday, we react in the same positive way as Sheff U have tonight after Wilders "outburst".

Whilst LJ's comments post-Cardiff weren't as strong, it was clear that he was unhappy with the players on Sunday! (& rightly so)

I fear that we will just run out of steam but hope I am wrong

[Major Isewater]

Or

 

[Jack Dawe]

17 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Ok- if you're unclear:

I felt that one of the biggest threats to our squad in January was never all about who we did or didn't buy but who we might sell or have to sell (i.e. the player wants to leave).

Against a lot of odds- we kept all of our important players and managed to ensure that there's something like 20 ( mainly youth) players out on loan.

In Jan we had the likelihood of several first teamers  returning- some of which could easily make the starting line up- we bought a potentially very good midfielder in Walsh (early days) and loaned in two, on the face of it, very exciting players.

If that all amounts to a "shocker" then a "good window" would surely be signing De Bruyne and Messi.

If the aim of the window was to strengthen the first team and get us back to winning ways and arrest a slump in form - January was four weeks and five games ago, with no wins in this period - to give us a much needed 'shot in the arm' then it has yet to do so.

Not your best post, MRR.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

On the face of it, the players we brought in look pretty decent to me. Walsh is clearly a good young player and many Everton fans were bemused at their decision to sell him. Ryan Kent impressed at Barnsley last year and there were many who wanted to see us going for him. Diony was transferred for a huge fee to St Etienne in the summer after a great season in the French top flight.

Yes, we could've done with strengthening other areas and for all we know the club may have tried to do this.

However, what we have seen in the past is a desire from those at the top of the club to 'stick' rather than 'twist'. We saw it last season when LJ was backed (correctly as it turned out). I think we also saw it in 2008 as well as the recent January transfer window. 

The team spirit is currently similar to that under Johnson senior. Maybe they didn't want to upset the applecart too much by bringing in loads of experienced players with no guarantee that they would do better than those already here?

Either way they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, Jack Dawe said:

If the aim of the window was to strengthen the first team and get us back to winning ways and arrest a slump in form - January was four weeks and five games ago, with no wins in this period - to give us a much needed 'shot in the arm' then it has yet to do so.

Not your best post, MRR.

Ah- the genius of hindsight!

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Ah- the genius of hindsight!

The only way to measure the success of a transfer window is with the benefit of hindsight. Did we keep a player one window too many, did our targets improve us, did those we passed over go on to achieve with a rival etc.

Your post just justified and mitigated the approach of the club. Whilst it's appreciable the approach the club took, and whilst it may absolve blame, it was undoubtedly a bad window (thus far).

For what it's worth, stood in MA's shoes on 31 January 2018, I'm not sure I would have done too much different - assuming no suitable RB was identified.

[Slippin cider]

23 hours ago, RUSSEL85 said:

This forum is a nightmare when were on a bad run, I would never have taken being in 6th place at the beginning March when our season begun. 

Our season didn’t start at the beginning of March .......I’ll get me coat ...

[ScottishRed]

21 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t read it like that though. So unless he specifically said we aren’t targeting promotion which he didn’t then I don’t get the vitriol towards the interview. It is pretty clear Bristol city will never gamble based on league position. We didn’t last January when fighting relegation and didn’t this January chasing promotion. Our plan is always to bring in what scouts say is/could be better than what we have. If it works out no one questions though. Kent, Diony and Walsh haven’t made huge impacts so people are taking cheap shots at the club which is appalling imo. 

 

Last January,

Duric

Heglar

Taylor

None of whom have contributed very much but all permanent signings during a relegation struggle. 

This Jan one permanent signing, whist fighting for promotion - slightly strange.

When you say gamble, there is little chance that any player in a good situation would have joined permanently in Jan 17 unless for ££.

This January would have been a whole different story and for whatever reason it didn't happen and we are now seeing the potential consequences of that.

The last window has been done to death but it still seems a very strange strategy unless a number of things simply did not come off. That however, does fly in the face of the list of transfer 'options' quote that is regularly spoken about by our CEO. 

"are taking cheap shots at the club which is appalling imo." In what way are people taking cheap shots? I think people are more disappointed than taking cheapshots, we had a real chance of automatic promotion and were in a great position to strengthen in January and for whatever reason we didn't do it.

[Singingsuperstar]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

Last January,

Duric

Heglar

Taylor

None of whom have contributed very much but all permanent signings during a relegation struggle. 

This Jan one permanent signing, whist fighting for promotion - slightly strange.

When you say gamble, there is little chance that any player in a good situation would have joined permanently in Jan 17 unless for ££.

This January would have been a whole different story and for whatever reason it didn't happen and we are now seeing the potential consequences of that.

The last window has been done to death but it still seems a very strange strategy unless a number of things simply did not come off. That however, does fly in the face of the list of transfer 'options' quote that is regularly spoken about by our CEO. 

"are taking cheap shots at the club which is appalling imo." In what way are people taking cheap shots? I think people are more disappointed than taking cheapshots, we had a real chance of automatic promotion and were in a great position to strengthen in January and for whatever reason we didn't do it.

I think automatic promotion would have been incredible but out of reach. I do believe playoffs are still possible if the players get their heads together, rekindle the pre-xmas spirit and the injured return ASAP. 

 

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Last January,

Duric

Heglar

Taylor

None of whom have contributed very much but all permanent signings during a relegation struggle. 

This Jan one permanent signing, whist fighting for promotion - slightly strange.

When you say gamble, there is little chance that any player in a good situation would have joined permanently in Jan 17 unless for ££.

This January would have been a whole different story and for whatever reason it didn't happen and we are now seeing the potential consequences of that.

The last window has been done to death but it still seems a very strange strategy unless a number of things simply did not come off. That however, does fly in the face of the list of transfer 'options' quote that is regularly spoken about by our CEO. 

"are taking cheap shots at the club which is appalling imo." In what way are people taking cheap shots? I think people are more disappointed than taking cheapshots, we had a real chance of automatic promotion and were in a great position to strengthen in January and for whatever reason we didn't do it.

Djuric no english experience. Taylor no championship experience. Hegeler no english experience. Bailey Wright 1 season of it. We were short a viable championship squad at the time. They added to it. Low risk high reward signings that will either make the team better, retain transfer value or cost effective enough to take the risk. 

This January with a bigger squad we added depth permanently to the one position we were short with limited championship experience as per our usual recruitment. Then added a much sought after winger that many clubs were after including other top 6 clubs. Then gambled on another foreign signing which tbf we have been quite hit or miss on(though don’t think LJ has put Diony in the best position to thrive yet). It followed what we usually do. In the summer when the prices are a bit more reasonable we have shown we will spend. Would we have gotten Baker for the same reported fee in January of last season? I doubt it. 

The cheap shots are people saying the club lack ambition or don’t want promotion. Based on what? The club have shown when they have the money they will spend it. What they won’t do is gamble the future of the club in January with 20+ matches left. It is the same from the top down. Lansdown to the board to LJ to the first team to the academy all have the same philosophy. There is a way to play and a way to do business and they don’t stray from it. Think as fans we should all get on board with that part because the club have shown the ambition these past few years. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 27/02/2018 at 11:36, RUSSEL85 said:

This forum is a nightmare when were on a bad run, I would never have taken being in 6th place at the beginning March when our season begun. 

You wouldn’t have taken being 6th at this point?!

I would have taken being 7th in March at the season’s commencement...

[Jack Dawe]

4 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Ah- the genius of hindsight!

Well, yeah. It's a "results business." What and how else is the poster you were responding to going to judge his club on - things to come?

Not your most thought out response, MRR...

[Jack Dawe]

4 hours ago, 29AR said:

The only way to measure the success of a transfer window is with the benefit of hindsight. Did we keep a player one window too many, did our targets improve us, did those we passed over go on to achieve with a rival etc.

Your post just justified and mitigated the approach of the club. Whilst it's appreciable the approach the club took, and whilst it may absolve blame, it was undoubtedly a bad window (thus far).

For what it's worth, stood in MA's shoes on 31 January 2018, I'm not sure I would have done too much different - assuming no suitable RB was identified.

There's an irony in Marina ticking people off for using hindsight to judge things. There was a time when MRR might've waited and employed it him/herself, and not rushed to judgement!

In the end, the people at the club are very well paid to do the difficult bit, which doesn't have the luxury of hindsight and involves making choices as to whether this player or that player will be good for us, or plain awful; while we the paying punters then judge the paid staff on their judgements. Simple.

Luckily, there is still time for things to work out a little better.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

44 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

There's an irony in Marina ticking people off for using hindsight to judge things. There was a time when MRR might've waited and employed it him/herself, and not rushed to judgement!

In the end, the people at the club are very well paid to do the difficult bit, which doesn't have the luxury of hindsight and involves making choices as to whether this player or that player will be good for us, or plain awful; while we the paying punters then judge the paid staff on their judgements. Simple.

Luckily, there is still time for things to work out a little better.

I wasn't "ticking people off" re hindsight- it was only you!

In terms of my original post which was in reply to MA having a "shocker" of a window-I felt it wasn't  a shocker for the reasons I stated. Anyone would think our season is over and there's no chance of another good run....

No doubt in May you can look back an identify if and how it went right or wrong for MA and after all - on 17th Jan you did say  "But as you say, he is doing a good job, and I'd rather have it this way round than he was saying all the right things but not capable of running things well. " What you didn't say at any point in the Jan window is that he'd got it wrong.

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, 29AR said:

The only way to measure the success of a transfer window is with the benefit of hindsight. Did we keep a player one window too many, did our targets improve us, did those we passed over go on to achieve with a rival etc.

Your post just justified and mitigated the approach of the club. Whilst it's appreciable the approach the club took, and whilst it may absolve blame, it was undoubtedly a bad window (thus far).

For what it's worth, stood in MA's shoes on 31 January 2018, I'm not sure I would have done too much different - assuming no suitable RB was identified.

We've lacked a RB since even before the summer transfer window .

Putting all our hopes on a thirty something Italian, however talented,   seems a bit naive.

Surely we could have found a decent right back to provide competition in this time .

 

[ScottishRed]

4 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Djuric no english experience. Taylor no championship experience. Hegeler no english experience. Bailey Wright 1 season of it. We were short a viable championship squad at the time. They added to it. Low risk high reward signings that will either make the team better, retain transfer value or cost effective enough to take the risk. 

This January with a bigger squad we added depth permanently to the one position we were short with limited championship experience as per our usual recruitment. Then added a much sought after winger that many clubs were after including other top 6 clubs. Then gambled on another foreign signing which tbf we have been quite hit or miss on(though don’t think LJ has put Diony in the best position to thrive yet). It followed what we usually do. In the summer when the prices are a bit more reasonable we have shown we will spend. Would we have gotten Baker for the same reported fee in January of last season? I doubt it. 

The cheap shots are people saying the club lack ambition or don’t want promotion. Based on what? The club have shown when they have the money they will spend it. What they won’t do is gamble the future of the club in January with 20+ matches left. It is the same from the top down. Lansdown to the board to LJ to the first team to the academy all have the same philosophy. There is a way to play and a way to do business and they don’t stray from it. Think as fans we should all get on board with that part because the club have shown the ambition these past few years. 

I think most would suggest that if we only were to add in one position in January it would be at RB!

There is a strong argument that the philosophy, as you call it, is flawed if we want to be promoted. I will say it again - we can buy potential, which hopefully can be developed and then we sell at a profit - fantastic. Then we rinse and repeat, all that is going to achieve is the status quo, at best, unless we find a number of young talented players that we stick with and don't sell, that get us to the PL -and that is not the  'philosophy' as I understand it.

One of the major flaws is that if we uncover and develop some talent  PL clubs will be knocking on the door with a big cheque and the promise of riches for the players concerned - the result of that is hugely predictable when players hold almost all of the power.

There is also the bizarre belief that this opportunity will come round again next season, ask Reading and Sheffield Wed fans about that. Just as none of us expected to be 7th now there is every chance we could be 17th this time next year.

As in life you have to grab the opportunity when it arises - we didn't.

It might come round again next season or the season after, but do consider the fact that 2 of the teams relegated last season to the Championship have not troubled the promotion places this time round - that is unlikely to be the case next year.

Therefore we will have the three play-off teams that did not get up plus the three that get relegated to contend with along with the ones - e.g.  Leeds, Boro, who did not even make the play-offs ( potentially), this season.

Looks a tough ask to me given a few will move on in the summer to be replaced by 'potential'.

If the club truly wants to be promoted it is unlikely to happen with the current strategy.

Finally, what exactly do you mean with 'gambling the clubs future' ? Do you really believe that if we had spent £5m in January we would go into administration if we didn't get promoted - always bearing in mind that any transfer fee payment is usually 'staged' and there is always the opportunity to move that player(s) on at any point during their contract.

[Jack Dawe]

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I wasn't "ticking people off" re hindsight- it was only you!

In terms of my original post which was in reply to MA having a "shocker" of a window-I felt it wasn't  a shocker for the reasons I stated. Anyone would think our season is over and there's no chance of another good run....

No doubt in May you can look back an identify if and how it went right or wrong for MA and after all - on 17th Jan you did say  "But as you say, he is doing a good job, and I'd rather have it this way round than he was saying all the right things but not capable of running things well. " What you didn't say at any point in the Jan window is that he'd got it wrong.

I'm not making any judgements about the Jan window - and I'll use hindsight when I want to, thank you very much. Although never after just the first awful game of a loan spell, of course. You can be holier than thou in May but until then stop being a prissy prig! (If you want to. It's up to you). And get over the hoo-hah from last season! (When you're ready. No pressure).