AshtonPark Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 8 hours ago, BoneyardTIM said: Ironic no, you'll be telling me next that Long Ashton and Whitchurch Village aren't part of Bristol. Yes, they are not within the city and county boundaries so how can they be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Tiree said: Population, like all stats, can be misleading (ok then, like bikinis-what they show may be interesting but what they don't show is what matters) Surely you need to look at the market, in this case 'competition'. For people in Bristol it is a 2 HR drive to top flight football (Baggies, Swansea, Soton) whereas you can drive to half the big clubs in England (outside London) in that time. Wednesday ha e always had great away support but can't really explain why. Bristolians are generally more fickle, complain more about their lot and don't have that special south Yorkshire humour but i still don't explain why we would have taken 200 in those conditions whereas they brought 2000. I've explained it, Tiree. Don't worry about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 On 03/03/2018 at 22:01, Jack Dawe said: And why do you think our support/numbers are better than Rovers'? Name a club with a poorer "tradition" or record, and a better support? ....I know I’ve already replied to this with Bradford City....but while watching the match tonight I’d add Crystal Palace...their best ever finish in the English League is lower than ours, we’ve both lost one FA Cup Final - ours was way before theirs giving us a better ‘tradition’ .....and the last time they were in division 4 they averaged over 19,000 at home...we’ve been champions of a division five times, they’ve been champions of a division three times...their crowds have always been pretty good despite being located very close to both Charlton and Millwall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 17 hours ago, AshtonPark said: Yes, they are not within the city and county boundaries so how can they be? Taking into account the new "welcome to Bristol " sign on the New Link Road on Highridge Common, that means that The Kings Head isn't in Bristol.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 14 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: ....I know I’ve already replied to this with Bradford City....but while watching the match tonight I’d add Crystal Palace...their best ever finish in the English League is lower than ours, we’ve both lost one FA Cup Final - ours was way before theirs giving us a better ‘tradition’ .....and the last time they were in division 4 they averaged over 19,000 at home...we’ve been champions of a division five times, they’ve been champions of a division three times...their crowds have always been pretty good despite being located very close to both Charlton and Millwall... Is Palace's support better than ours, though? As far as numbers go (rather than current vocal support). That's the critical thing. I'd say with 17 seasons of top class football since 1970 and 2 FA cup final appearances in that time, compared with 4 top class seasons and zero cup finals for us, that Palace have had it a lot better than us in my lifetime. They certainly had some bigger crowds than us when they were on the up, and at the top though. It's important to note here though that while you are correct they have never finished as high as our highest in 1st Div, their best is still 3rd, one below our best finish. And this was in 1991, whereas our best was more than a century ago. They are still benefitting from those "glory days." They were also dubbed "the team of the 80s" and had the sort of publicity and media hype/ hoo-hah that we would never have got. And an enormous catchment area of floating support. Our "hype" in the 70s was chimps and seals on the pitch, and Stoney Garnett. I think it is difficult comparing us with London clubs. How many derby matches did we have back then, with large visiting support - and how many did Palace have? But if you look at their crowds in the boom years after the war, when we were both Div 3, then ours were much bigger than their's. I think it evens out, and that their support isn't significantly better than ours now. Given identical seasons in the same league, there would be little between us. Whereas you couldn't say that with us and Sheff Weds. I think you have come up with two decent examples but that it is possible for me to pick holes in them, that they are debatable. I'd still contest that it is very hard to find a clear example of a club with a poorer history, and a better support. I would choose Brighton myself, but that can be debated too. If there is a clear example, it'll be the exception though, not the rule. There's a "lifetime league table" with everyone placed in the 92 based on their average finish in the pyramid - ie Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd at the top, the likes of Rochdale etc near the bottom - and I think we were something like 42/92. And if you did this for support and totted up the numbers, I reckon our place in the 92 would reflect this. Somewhere around 38 - 40. And Arse, Liverpool, Utd near the top of the support league, Rochdale near the bottom. No surprise. I wish we had support like Sheffield Wednesday but I can see why we do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTBLUE Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just a little fact,Wednesday actually brought 1426 not 2000,still good mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Jack Dawe said: It's important to note here though that while you are correct they have never finished as high as our highest in 1st Div, their best is still 3rd, one below our best finish. And this was in 1991, whereas our best was more than a century ago. They are still benefitting from those "glory days.” You make some good points, but I feel you have contradicted yourself here...in the original discussion you said both Sheffield clubs have good support because of their history and tradition and for what they won in the 1920s and the 1930s....now you’re saying Palace have good support because their relative success happened recently whereas ours was many years ago...you can’t have it both ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: You make some good points, but I feel you have contradicted yourself here...in the original discussion you said both Sheffield clubs have good support because of their history and tradition and for what they won in the 1920s and the 1930s....now you’re saying Palace have good support because their relative success happened recently whereas ours was many years ago...you can’t have it both ways... A club needs to have sustained top class football/success to build a mass of support over more than a generation; to create a "tradition," a passion for going to football home and away. Palace didn't have that until the 70s, and so their support was modest and not any greater than ours until then. But they have now built up their "tradition." My suggestion remains: you'll struggle to find a club with less top class football (a poorer record) than us and better support now. Palace, with 17 seasons of top class football in the last 48 years, don't meet that criteria. In my opinion. The Sheffield clubs have had top class football on and off for most of their history (although Weds are now enduring their longest drought), even winning a few things, and so, I would suggest, are better supported now than Palace or ourselves. They have the foundation that builds generations of support. I have found something called the "All Time Top Flight Points Table," showing all 65 clubs that have played top class football since 1889 in order according to points won. We are 47th in the one adjusted to 2 points for a win; Bradford 45th; Palace 41st; Sheff Utd 17th, Wednesday 14th. Of the 65 clubs that have played top flight football, we are one of the poorest performing ones, but better than some: Glossop, Accrington, Swindon. And we have better support now than all of those below us in that table, with a worse record at the top, with the exception of Brighton. I think you are being harsh describing our support as "paltry" compared to the Sheffield clubs! It's not a fair comparison, I don't think. The comparison with Palace is better but look at their crowds when they are in the Championship and not winning promotion: very similar to ours, and not up there with the Sheffield clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntstile Red Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: You make some good points, but I feel you have contradicted yourself here...in the original discussion you said both Sheffield clubs have good support because of their history and tradition and for what they won in the 1920s and the 1930s....now you’re saying Palace have good support because their relative success happened recently whereas ours was many years ago...you can’t have it both ways... I think you'll find with him, he can. And will. Glad you've made up, you two, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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