The idea that the club are not ready for promotion this season

[Jack Dawe]

This has circled since January, and our least active transfer window under LJ/MA, and Mark Ashton's interview in the Post in February, in which they reported that MA confirmed that we were set up for the long term and "not specifically targetting promotion this season."

It's not that long ago that we arrived back in the Championship and had a nightmare summer trying to recruit and rocked up at Sheffield Wednesday wholly unprepared with Wes Burns coming on to replace an injured Joe Bryan. We weren't ready, we were still a bit "L1." Shambles.

Since then, our recruitment has been mixed, at best. We have fired Des whatsisname and not sure we have replaced him permanently? We have had the Engvall carry on and recruitment continues to be challenging, the loans particularly this season have been abysmal. Weakened us, if anything.

I'm not sure we are ready to recruit successfully for the PL and with the summer of 2015 fresh in the club's memory, perhaps there is something in this? 

Do we want to find ourselves in the PL about as ready for it as we were the Championship in 2015, where the level of exposure and media interest would be somewhat embarrassing for the "high ups" were we a little bit undercooked, on and off the pitch? 

I believe that the club are more than satisfied with this season already, and not fussed about the play offs this time. I think this is evident now in the standard of the first team for a few weeks now. I wonder if they feel there is more to do yet before we are ready to go for it in this league, and that another year in the Championship will allow us to improve our "set up" and be better in the long run.

Looking at our hit and miss recruitment, I'd tend to agree with them. We don't need it just yet. And we don't need to be on MOTD every Saturday night getting embarrassed, like Cardiff next season.

 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

This has circled since January, and our least active transfer window under LJ/MA, and Mark Ashton's interview in the Post in February, in which they reported that MA confirmed that we were set up for the long term and "not specifically targetting promotion this season."

It's not that long ago that we arrived back in the Championship and had a nightmare summer trying to recruit and rocked up at Sheffield Wednesday wholly unprepared with Wes Burns coming on to replace an injured Joe Bryan. We weren't ready, we were still a bit "L1." Shambles.

Since then, our recruitment has been mixed, at best. We have fired Des whatsisname and not sure we have replaced him permanently? We have had the Engvall carry on and recruitment continues to be challenging, the loans particularly this season have been abysmal. Weakened us, if anything.

I'm not sure we are ready to recruit successfully for the PL and with the summer of 2015 fresh in the club's memory, perhaps there is something in this? 

Do we want to find ourselves in the PL about as ready for it as we were the Championship in 2015, where the level of exposure and media interest would be somewhat embarrassing for the "high ups" were we a little bit undercooked, on and off the pitch? 

I believe that the club are more than satisfied with this season already, and not fussed about the play offs this time. I think this is evident now in the standard of the first team for a few weeks now. I wonder if they feel there is more to do yet before we are ready to go for it in this league, and that another year in the Championship will allow us to improve our "set up" and be better in the long run.

Looking at our hit and miss recruitment, I'd tend to agree with them. We don't need it just yet. And we don't need to be on MOTD every Saturday night getting embarrassed, like Cardiff next season.

 

 

Problem is Jack - If we don’t get our recruitment right (And IMHO improve it significantly) it won’t be the Prem we will be worrying about if we find our way out the Championship

[Robbored]

That's an excellent post Jack. 

Well though out and 85% spot on.

[Jack Dawe]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

That's an excellent post Jack. 

Well though out and 85% spot on.

Thank you, old chap. I'll set to work on that missing 15% right away....

[ScottishRed]

With all due respect you completely and utterly miss the point.

IF, there is a deliberate plan by the club to ensure we don't get promoted that is beyond naive.

There is absolutely no,repeat NO guarantee that the opportuntity will present itself again next season.

Witness Reading and Sheffield Wed - play - off places last year - this year miles off it, and neither made any changes that weakened them.

The attitude of some on here that next year we will be stronger and be in a better position to get auto promotion boils my pixx.

This season 2 of the relegated teams have never even flirted with the top 6, regardless of who comes down there is a good chance that 2 at least, will be contenders. Add those to the ones that miss out this time round and you have a good few in the mix.

You can also add to that a 'surprise package.

I could of course be totally wrong - I hope I am.

We had a real chance this year and we fxxked it up.

A key point of getting promoted is the £120m + - get promoted and maybe get relegated BUT that money really helps to build the club and move towards self sustainability.

[JoeAman08]

Think we recruit well in the summer. Awful in january when we need a boost. They have brought in too many players though. This in turn means some of the expensive young players bought don’t get a look in. I am sure out of Engvall, Walsh, Eliasson and Moore along with Kelly, Vyner, Morrell and a few others there are a couple duds and a couple stars but we will never know because there are too many fringe players in their mid 20s and older taking a spot. 

As far as what MA said in Feb about not specifically targeting promotion, I know what he meant but it didn’t need to be said at all. 

[The Bard]

Put simply the message Mark Ashton conveyed is that those in the key positions are not up to it.  Does anyone think Huddersfield were ready last season after we stuck 4 past them?  Were Stoke ready in 2008?  Burnley the first time around.  I could go on.  They weren't ready but had strong leadership.  They stayed up and adapted and grew.  We look like we don't want it because we're scared of it. 

The point is, a club our size gets the opportunity to get promoted to the Premiership every now and then.  It seems to me those in decision making positions at the club (and Bristol Sport) have bottled it. The January business made no sense in the short, medium or long term.  I'd happily get promoted and come down again as long as we don't live beyond our means. We have shown that we can compete with Premiership sides. 
 

[Big C]

Five years ago we left this division with barely a whimper, four years ago we were struggling at the foot of League One, waiting till the end of October for our first win league and considering a 2-2 home draw with Leyton Orient as a good result. We have made massive strides in a short space of time. There are teams who have been in this division longer with Premier League experience who are further away than what we are. We were never a top two side, no matter how good our performances were before Christmas. There are 46 games in a League season, you play each team home and away and so only where you are at the end of the season counts   We are where we should be (maybe even higher than we should be) challenging for a play off spot. We've improved each of the last 4 seasons, we are going in the right direction,

[cidered abroad]

Big C. If you call yesterday's performance as "challenging for a play off spot", you are sadly mistaken. The only challenge all afternoon was the toss up to choose ends. 

[Kid in the Riot]

If Steve Lansdown (and that's who we're talking about here, not MA or LJ) doesn't think we're ready for promotion to the Premier League this season, after pumping in £150m ish over the past 17 years in which he has been in charge, then one has to seriously question if he thinks we will ever be ready for Premier League football under his stewardship.

[Robbored]

27 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Thank you, old chap. I'll set to work on that missing 15% right away....

Start with recruitment - that's the 15% I don't agree with. 

[Big C]

30 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Big C. If you call yesterday's performance as "challenging for a play off spot", you are sadly mistaken. The only challenge all afternoon was the toss up to choose ends. 

Well unlike some I don't judge a season on the performance in one game

[RedNight]

All the good things the club is doing off the pitch (infrastructure, academy etc.) could all be blown up the wall if we get promoted. The vision to have a core group of Bristolians playing in the 1st XI would simply not be sustainable if we were promoted this year. 

Staying down and continuing to build things off the pitch would seriously pay off in the long run.

This might seem ridiculous to some people, but I'm just seeing a bigger picture, as much as I would love to be promoted this year. 

City have had a good year this year. No matter what happens. It's disappointing that we haven't continued our superb form that we had at the start. But I remember quite a few questioning whether or not they style of play was sustainable. It clearly hasn't been. 

But those slagging the players off and manager off are absolutely ridiculous. The ones venting frustration on form is justified. Those questioning whether or not Johnson is the right man, do the players care etc. are just simply ******* retarded. 

I can't quite believe how quickly quite a few fans have turned. Completely ignoring the fact we are 7th after nearly getting relegated last year, and only being whiny about the fact we were 2nd 4 months ago. 

The problem is, so many went hard and personal at Johnson, that they are now revelling in the fact hes "failing" (in their eyes). 

If this was another club of our size (let's say Ipswich), booing off a team that's in 7th. We would be on here slagging them off in disbelief.

Monday, half the ground cheered off Bailey Wright, who has been playing through injections for 2 months and out of position for the majority of season. Disgraceful and embarrassing. 

Respect to the fans who have perspective, and are appreciative of our season, players and manager!

[Gert Mare]

No club is READY for promotion to the Premier League. 

You need to be better than the teams near the bottom.....Stoke (check), Crystal Palace (check), Watford (check), Brighton (check), Huddersfield (check) and you need a bit of luck with injuries.

The key is not to waste money on players who don’t really want to join you for a likely relegation dog fight (which is basically anyone who is any good) and the rest want extortionate money and a release clause as soon as you go back down again so that they can take the money and run.

So you go up, and you try your best, and you go down with £200 Million in the bank and 3 years of parachute payments worth millions and millions.

Then you yo-yo for a bit to build up the cash reserves so you can start to compete and buy a few better players.

So what’s the problem?

[ScottishRed]

7 minutes ago, RedNight said:

All the good things the club is doing off the pitch (infrastructure, academy etc.) could all be blown up the wall if we get promoted. The vision to have a core group of Bristolians playing in the 1st XI would simply not be sustainable if we were promoted this year. 

Staying down and continuing to build things off the pitch would seriously pay off in the long run.

This might seem ridiculous to some people, but I'm just seeing a bigger picture, as much as I would love to be promoted this year. 

City have had a good year this year. No matter what happens. It's disappointing that we haven't continued our superb form that we had at the start. But I remember quite a few questioning whether or not they style of play was sustainable. It clearly hasn't been. 

But those slagging the players off and manager off are absolutely ridiculous. The ones venting frustration on form is justified. Those questioning whether or not Johnson is the right man, do the players care etc. are just simply ******* retarded. 

I can't quite believe how quickly quite a few fans have turned. Completely ignoring the fact we are 7th after nearly getting relegated last year, and only being whiny about the fact we were 2nd 4 months ago. 

The problem is, so many went hard and personal at Johnson, that they are now revelling in the fact hes "failing" (in their eyes). 

If this was another club of our size (let's say Ipswich), booing off a team that's in 7th. We would be on here slagging them off in disbelief.

Monday, half the ground cheered off Bailey Wright, who has been playing through injections for 2 months and out of position for the majority of season. Disgraceful and embarrassing. 

Respect to the fans who have perspective, and are appreciative of our season, players and manager!

Congratulations on "seeing the bigger picture" .

The plan as it stands, will not work.

Why? Because every year 3 teams come down from the PL with £120m in their pocket plus of course parachute payments, they are not always replaced by the 3 that got relegated the year before = more teams in this league with ££££.

Answer - get up asap, accept you might get relegated, but you too have the £££ - therefore you can compete to get back there.

We are not too many seasons away from it being almost, not completely, but almost impossible to get promoted, unless you have already been there.

This ridiculous romantics notion that we will get promoted with a squad of Bristolians that have come through they Academy is beyond farce.

[Chicken George]

Agreed that most of us never expected to be up there, but once we were, we should be trying to stay there and go up, not give in cuz it’s not in the long term plan. 

This is one BIG opportunity missed. Ashton talks rollox at the best of times but his comments on this were pure bile. 

The Jan window was the chance to build on a great first half season. Instead. It was impotent. Flaccid. A drunken willy of a window. We were in a bar, chatting up a hot and sexy blonde, she was in the palm of our hand, loving the attention we were giving her, all we had to do was buy her a couple of drinks and drop a viagra to keep our staying power strong. Instead, we nipped to the slashers and by the time we got back she was chatting to a burly Welsh nob-ed and we ended up with the fat scouser on a fat hen weekend (and we didn’t even get a blower down the back alley). 

[RedNight]

1 minute ago, ScottishRed said:

Congratulations on "seeing the bigger picture" .

The plan as it stands, will not work.

Why? Because every year 3 teams come down from the PL with £120m in their pocket plus of course parachute payments, they are not always replaced by the 3 that got relegated the year before = more teams in this league with ££££.

Answer - get up asap, accept you might get relegated, but you too have the £££ - therefore you can compete to get back there.

We are not too many seasons away from it being almost, not completely, but almost impossible to get promoted, unless you have already been there.

This ridiculous romantics notion that we will get promoted with a squad of Bristolians that have come through they Academy is beyond farce.

The thing is mate, that is currently the clubs philosophy and you have to respect that. 

If Lansdown said to LJ, "here's £50mill, go get players". Johnson would bite his hand off. But that's not going to happen. And if that is your main bugbear, then thst lies with SL, not LJ.

Johnson has been brilliant for SL's philosophy. Because he's nurtured so many of our young lads into solid, and in some cases, excellent championship footballers. 

I think Johnson, with the resources is doing a good job. No way have we got anywhere near the best squad in the league, but we're 7th. And we've done that by squeezing everyone out of these lads, to a point I think we've ran out of steam.

Because of this, people question Jan business, but that's not a problem of LJ's. 

[RedNight]

@Bob Bob Super Bob fancy commenting? Rather than reacting with shite emoji's

You don't think Johnson is doing a good job with the squad we've got? 

[Frenchay Red]

You should grab the opportunity with both hands when it becomes a realistic target. As it was in our case a few months ago.

IMO it is totally ridiculous, in the context of the position we were in a while back, to even hint that we might not be quite ready, or are not going to go chasing it. What sort of ambition is that?

I find it beyond belief that those running things seriously think that they can and will decide just when we are ready to seriously go for it. 

They had better let all the other clubs know in advance, so as to not hinder our unerring progress then. 

.

 

[windmillhillred]

39 minutes ago, RedNight said:

All the good things the club is doing off the pitch (infrastructure, academy etc.) could all be blown up the wall if we get promoted. The vision to have a core group of Bristolians playing in the 1st XI would simply not be sustainable if we were promoted this year. 

Staying down and continuing to build things off the pitch would seriously pay off in the long run.

This might seem ridiculous to some people, but I'm just seeing a bigger picture, as much as I would love to be promoted this year. 

City have had a good year this year. No matter what happens. It's disappointing that we haven't continued our superb form that we had at the start. But I remember quite a few questioning whether or not they style of play was sustainable. It clearly hasn't been. 

But those slagging the players off and manager off are absolutely ridiculous. The ones venting frustration on form is justified. Those questioning whether or not Johnson is the right man, do the players care etc. are just simply ******* retarded. 

I can't quite believe how quickly quite a few fans have turned. Completely ignoring the fact we are 7th after nearly getting relegated last year, and only being whiny about the fact we were 2nd 4 months ago. 

The problem is, so many went hard and personal at Johnson, that they are now revelling in the fact hes "failing" (in their eyes). 

If this was another club of our size (let's say Ipswich), booing off a team that's in 7th. We would be on here slagging them off in disbelief.

Monday, half the ground cheered off Bailey Wright, who has been playing through injections for 2 months and out of position for the majority of season. Disgraceful and embarrassing. 

Respect to the fans who have perspective, and are appreciative of our season, players and manager!

Agree with almost all of this. However I think the full time booing on Monday was completely justified. I genuinely don't think I've ever seen such an inept performance on and off the pitch. It was so bad it was bizarre.

[spudski]

Why people keep banging on about the Jan transfer window beats me. We have no idea what budget was available and who wanted to come here. We also don't know what has been planned for the summer.

Also regarding teams coming down from the Prem with money...it doesn't make any sense either. The same players have to be motivated and managed. Look at Sunderland and Hull.

Fans bang on about how poor things are at the moment, but they are for other teams with far more resources and experience.

We've done remarkably well this season considering.

Unfortunately disappointment leads to dissecting every part of the club when things aren't going our way.

It's all a bit silly really.

[The Bard]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

Why people keep banging on about the Jan transfer window beats me. We have no idea what budget was available and who wanted to come here. We also don't know what has been planned for the summer.

Also regarding teams coming down from the Prem with money...it doesn't make any sense either. The same players have to be motivated and managed. Look at Sunderland and Hull.

Fans bang on about how poor things are at the moment, but they are for other teams with far more resources and experience.

We've done remarkably well this season considering.

Unfortunately disappointment leads to dissecting every part of the club when things aren't going our way.

It's all a bit silly really.

No it's not. It's entirely logical and understandable. 

To be clear, we did remarkably well in the first half of the season.  So well that we found ourselves challenging for automatic promotion despite having a realistic squad of 14 at the time due to a number of injuries.  We could have decided to spend a little more on specific areas where we were lacking options but instead did what we did.  We have got worse despite the manager having more players at his disposal.  What does that tell you?

[BTRFTG]

25 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Answer - get up asap, accept you might get relegated, but you too have the £££ - therefore you can compete to get back there.

Spot on and any credible director should know that ( if not, get rid pronto.)

It's not what fans necessarily want to hear but go up, take the cash, invest in a few 'second string' Premier players and accept you'll be relegated but with a significantly stronger squad than you went up with. Avoid at all costs the 's*** or bust' option. Repeat one or two times and you'll have assembled a squad capable of surviving at the top level (though won't ever be competitive.)

Lately it's been called the Burnley Model; no wasted and expensive overseas showboats, just what would once have been half tidy 'First Division' pros. Dull maybe, but that's modern football. There's greater profit in an empty Premier stadium than a full Championship one so the extra fans and crowd argument (they'll only watch a winning side) doesn't hold water.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Watford are showing another way of establishing though. Wolves with their contacts have the potential and a mix of increased PL cash, Mendes and Nuno may well push them on.

Would suggest those 2 are probably outliers though, tbh. More PL sides in terms of newly promoted seem to be surviving than in the past though.

[Curr Avon]

2 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

This has circled since January, and our least active transfer window under LJ/MA, and Mark Ashton's interview in the Post in February, in which they reported that MA confirmed that we were set up for the long term and "not specifically targetting promotion this season."

It's not that long ago that we arrived back in the Championship and had a nightmare summer trying to recruit and rocked up at Sheffield Wednesday wholly unprepared with Wes Burns coming on to replace an injured Joe Bryan. We weren't ready, we were still a bit "L1." Shambles.

Since then, our recruitment has been mixed, at best. We have fired Des whatsisname and not sure we have replaced him permanently? We have had the Engvall carry on and recruitment continues to be challenging, the loans particularly this season have been abysmal. Weakened us, if anything.

I'm not sure we are ready to recruit successfully for the PL and with the summer of 2015 fresh in the club's memory, perhaps there is something in this? 

Do we want to find ourselves in the PL about as ready for it as we were the Championship in 2015, where the level of exposure and media interest would be somewhat embarrassing for the "high ups" were we a little bit undercooked, on and off the pitch? 

I believe that the club are more than satisfied with this season already, and not fussed about the play offs this time. I think this is evident now in the standard of the first team for a few weeks now. I wonder if they feel there is more to do yet before we are ready to go for it in this league, and that another year in the Championship will allow us to improve our "set up" and be better in the long run.

Looking at our hit and miss recruitment, I'd tend to agree with them. We don't need it just yet. And we don't need to be on MOTD every Saturday night getting embarrassed, like Cardiff next season.

 

 

That's a good post JD, but Huddersfield seized their chance last season and have a decent chance of staying in the Premier League beyond May. 

We've only had two terms in the top flight. With our best days prior to the launch of the Titanic.

I'm sure that our wonderful fans of all ages would be delighted to see their club perform in the Premier League.

Who wouldn't?

[Chairman Mao]

If, in the same season we beat Watford, Palace, Man Utd and Stoke we aren't ready for the Premiership then what season will we be ready?! 

[spudski]

15 minutes ago, The Bard said:

No it's not. It's entirely logical and understandable. 

To be clear, we did remarkably well in the first half of the season.  So well that we found ourselves challenging for automatic promotion despite having a realistic squad of 14 at the time due to a number of injuries.  We could have decided to spend a little more on specific areas where we were lacking options but instead did what we did.  We have got worse despite the manager having more players at his disposal.  What does that tell you?

How do you know that we didn't try?

No one knows what the budgets are, whether we are going to be within FFP over 3 years, who's leaving, who we've targeted, when they will be available. etc, etc

We are planning long term now...there is now way in hell, even if money was available, that we'd just buy up who was available in January to 'give it a go'.

We may have more players...but the majority are knackered, some are coming back from injury, and others brought in haven't delivered or settled so well.

It's not numbers, it's human beings we are dealing with.

After all these things we still sit 7th.

How bad a season must others be having if our form is so bad, that we can still sit 7th.

As for logical and understandable....half the things written on here are neither of those. They are mainly reactionary and illogical...because fans don't have the knowledge of what's happening behind the scenes. It's all guess work and supposition...hence when results don't go to plan people dissect every part of the club to try and find a reason.

It really is laughable tbh.

 

 

[pillred]

3 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

With all due respect you completely and utterly miss the point.

IF, there is a deliberate plan by the club to ensure we don't get promoted that is beyond naive.

There is absolutely no,repeat NO guarantee that the opportuntity will present itself again next season.

Witness Reading and Sheffield Wed - play - off places last year - this year miles off it, and neither made any changes that weakened them.

The attitude of some on here that next year we will be stronger and be in a better position to get auto promotion boils my pixx.

This season 2 of the relegated teams have never even flirted with the top 6, regardless of who comes down there is a good chance that 2 at least, will be contenders. Add those to the ones that miss out this time round and you have a good few in the mix.

You can also add to that a 'surprise package.

I could of course be totally wrong - I hope I am.

We had a real chance this year and we fxxked it up.

A key point of getting promoted is the £120m + - get promoted and maybe get relegated BUT that money really helps to build the club and move towards self sustainability.

how many teams are really ready for the step up, it's nearly always a struggle for the teams that get promoted, using the were not ready excuse wears a bit thin yes we might get dicked most weeks but we would only need to be better than three other teams, if we could do that who knows what may happen in the future. 

[Dr Balls]

There is a huge amount of frustration among most fans at how a season which promised so much is likely to end with nothing more than a sad little whimper as per our frankly pathetic performance on Monday.

Whether there is a larger ulterior motive amongst those in charge of the club, I have no idea, but from the outside, to have slipped from second halfway through the season to potentially not even making the playoffs looks like a golden opportunity that may not come around for another 10 years having been wasted. Remember we took 28 years from relegation from the top flight to having a chance to go back there, and since then we haven't even had anything close to a sniff of anything similar until this season. 

There is only so much planning that you can do in football, because you can't control what other clubs do. Just like the small print on SL's financial products, past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Who would have guessed after Liverpool last won the league in 1990 after years of domination that they wouldn't win it again in the subsequent 28 years?

In the parlance of a terrace chant, "Second place & we fu**ed it up, even the playoffs, we fu**ed it up".

Start next season like we have finished this one, and there won't just be disappointment there will be outright anger. It will not be pretty, and then all the talk of "building for the future" will seem like even more of a fantasy.

[KevP]

8 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Big C. If you call yesterday's performance as "challenging for a play off spot", you are sadly mistaken. The only challenge all afternoon was the toss up to choose ends. 

.......and we probably lost that too

[Maesknoll Red]

6 hours ago, spudski said:

 

As for logical and understandable....half the things written on here are neither of those. They are mainly reactionary and illogical...because fans don't have the knowledge of what's happening behind the scenes. It's all guess work and supposition...hence when results don't go to plan people dissect every part of the club to try and find a reason.

It really is laughable tbh.

 

 

Is not most of the reaction from the fans due to disappointment, it looked like being an awesome season, it has collapsed quite spectacularly - when compared with the first half.

[havanatopia]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

Why people keep banging on about the Jan transfer window beats me. We have no idea what budget was available and who wanted to come here. We also don't know what has been planned for the summer.

Also regarding teams coming down from the Prem with money...it doesn't make any sense either. The same players have to be motivated and managed. Look at Sunderland and Hull.

Fans bang on about how poor things are at the moment, but they are for other teams with far more resources and experience.

We've done remarkably well this season considering.

Unfortunately disappointment leads to dissecting every part of the club when things aren't going our way.

It's all a bit silly really.

Spud, if we do not know what our budgets are, your first paragraph, how can you then say, paragraph three, we are competing with teams who have far bigger budgets?

 

[CyderInACan]

8 hours ago, Enter Sandman said:

The Jan window was the chance to build on a great first half season. Instead. It was impotent. Flaccid. A drunken willy of a window. We were in a bar, chatting up a hot and sexy blonde, she was in the palm of our hand, loving the attention we were giving her, all we had to do was buy her a couple of drinks and drop a viagra to keep our staying power strong. Instead, we nipped to the slashers and by the time we got back she was chatting to a burly Welsh nob-ed and we ended up with the fat scouser on a fat hen weekend (and we didn’t even get a blower down the back alley). 

Jeez, are you Ian H*ll*way in disguise!?

7 hours ago, spudski said:

We may have more players...but the majority are knackered

Poor loves. 

[Kid in the Riot]

7 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

There is a huge amount of frustration among most fans at how a season which promised so much is likely to end with nothing more than a sad little whimper as per our frankly pathetic performance on Monday.

Whether there is a larger ulterior motive amongst those in charge of the club, I have no idea, but from the outside, to have slipped from second halfway through the season to potentially not even making the playoffs looks like a golden opportunity that may not come around for another 10 years having been wasted. Remember we took 28 years from relegation from the top flight to having a chance to go back there, and since then we haven't even had anything close to a sniff of anything similar until this season. 

There is only so much planning that you can do in football, because you can't control what other clubs do. Just like the small print on SL's financial products, past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Who would have guessed after Liverpool last won the league in 1990 after years of domination that they wouldn't win it again in the subsequent 28 years?

In the parlance of a terrace chant, "Second place & we fu**ed it up, even the playoffs, we fu**ed it up".

Start next season like we have finished this one, and there won't just be disappointment there will be outright anger. It will not be pretty, and then all the talk of "building for the future" will seem like even more of a fantasy.

Good post.

'Carpe diem' springs to mind.

[exAtyeoMax]

8 hours ago, spudski said:

How do you know that we didn't try?

No one knows what the budgets are, whether we are going to be within FFP over 3 years, who's leaving, who we've targeted, when they will be available. etc, etc

We are planning long term now...there is now way in hell, even if money was available, that we'd just buy up who was available in January to 'give it a go'.

We may have more players...but the majority are knackered, some are coming back from injury, and others brought in haven't delivered or settled so well.

It's not numbers, it's human beings we are dealing with.

After all these things we still sit 7th.

How bad a season must others be having if our form is so bad, that we can still sit 7th.

As for logical and understandable....half the things written on here are neither of those. They are mainly reactionary and illogical...because fans don't have the knowledge of what's happening behind the scenes. It's all guess work and supposition...hence when results don't go to plan people dissect every part of the club to try and find a reason.

It really is laughable tbh.

 

 

I thinks it's important that people question what has happened (whether their conclusions are logical or not - it is a forum after all). 

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

With all due respect you completely and utterly miss the point.

IF, there is a deliberate plan by the club to ensure we don't get promoted that is beyond naive.

There is absolutely no,repeat NO guarantee that the opportuntity will present itself again next season.

Witness Reading and Sheffield Wed - play - off places last year - this year miles off it, and neither made any changes that weakened them.

The attitude of some on here that next year we will be stronger and be in a better position to get auto promotion boils my pixx.

This season 2 of the relegated teams have never even flirted with the top 6, regardless of who comes down there is a good chance that 2 at least, will be contenders. Add those to the ones that miss out this time round and you have a good few in the mix.

You can also add to that a 'surprise package.

I could of course be totally wrong - I hope I am.

We had a real chance this year and we fxxked it up.

A key point of getting promoted is the £120m + - get promoted and maybe get relegated BUT that money really helps to build the club and move towards self sustainability.

My feelings on the matter completely-every likekyhood we won't be knocking on the playoff door next season, or even automatic as we were for a while!...

There are no gaurentees in football/life and I feel the club,if its possible to believe,have if anything done all they can to be sure we DONT have the RISK of Premier league football..I swear this is how they have viewed the great position we were in-they see risk,danger,fear in ther pit of the stomach,not a glistening god given opportunity to be grasped & cherished...

The club have looked scared,terrified even of the likelihood of promotion..that my friends is somewhat worrying!!!

[Guest]

9 hours ago, spudski said:

Why people keep banging on about the Jan transfer window beats me. We have no idea what budget was available and who wanted to come here. We also don't know what has been planned for the summer.

In response:

if we spent the budget it was too low;

if we didn't we why on earth did we leave cash in the coffers with season ticket income two months away;

If we couldn't attract better after beating Man Utd, losing by 2 goals over 180m to Man City and being 2nd in the League in December MA should have been sacked on 1 February, because the club and opportunity sold itself.

The summer is a red herring - we didn't know what league we would be in so how could we in good conscience plan January around the Summer? 

Also regarding teams coming down from the Prem with money...it doesn't make any sense either. The same players have to be motivated and managed. Look at Sunderland and Hull.

The teams that came down this season were poisoned with mercenaries. I don't really get that feeling with the candidates this time. I could be wrong, but I think they would be more competitive - and West Brom know as a club how to deal with relegation to this league. 

Fans bang on about how poor things are at the moment, but they are for other teams with far more resources and experience.

That does circle back to January and recruitment. In any case, I think semantically 'at the moment' is quite dismissive when our poor run is going to be a very high percentage of the season's fixtures. 

We've done remarkably well this season considering.

Damn right. 

Unfortunately disappointment leads to dissecting every part of the club when things aren't going our way.

Good - we should review, learn and evolve... when both things are going well and badly. No stone should be unturned when just 12ish hours of playing time could stand between the most lucrative prize in football - the Championship play off. 

 

[Jack Dawe]

No-one at the club - I really do not think - has deliberately decided to slam the breaks on this season, fearing that we might actually be promoted.

But there has been a slackening off, an easing up, a relaxing of the high standard set up until Christmas. And Ashton's reported "not specifically targetting promotion" comment is an indication of this, as is the performance of the first team. As was the January window. We have switched off and are now finding it almost impossible to switch on again.

The point of this thread was to try to understand why the people running the club are apparently relaxed about going for promotion this season and not going all-out, all-guns-blazing, leaving no stone unturned like Cardiff, Villa, Fulham etc seemed to be doing. The point isn't what I think about going for it, now or never - I'm not involved in running the club - the point is to try and think what SL/MA are thinking (a point one or two, well, mostly one, seem to have missed. Completely and utterly), as tricky as this is.

What SL and MA will not be thinking, is "if we don't go for it now, we'll never get another chance" like some on here. I don't think billionaires think like that. That's catastrophising, pessimistic, fatalistic. Billionaires tend to think "can do" rather than "can't do." 

A year ago, I thought SL was nuts, had lost his marbles, sticking with his inexperienced head coach but he did, and look what followed. Things got better. Much better.

So I don't suppose this current slump in form holds any great concerns for SL, he has been in more sticky situations and come through it. And witnessed improvement, and progress. His thinking will be: if we do this, this and this over the summer, we can improve again next season.

Meanwhile, supporters who remember 2008 and the decline that followed use that to make their guesses about what is happening now, and will happen next season/in future.

Two very different schools of thought.

 

 

[Tin Soldier]

The fact is that Bristol City has been badly run for years. Top to bottom. Ticket pricing, transfer dealings, blah, blah, blah.

One sunny day does not make a long summer - the saying goes. A good cup run and great run in the league early season was not capitalised on in January transfer window. Rumour has it the club (MA) did not want to pay some of the big fat agent fees for the type of players we needed, others did. Apparently BCFC paid less than £1M last 12 months to agents I was told at Brentford game whereas some clubs paid millions! You get £100M in Premier for finishing bottom!

Quite frankly, this Bristol Sport thing I don’t buy in to - why? Because IMO, it dilutes the clear focus the football club needs to get into the Prem. We need clear vision and commitment to get into the Prem, which MA and others do not have. Rubs off on the players and LJ IMO.

[Tin Soldier]

11 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Congratulations on "seeing the bigger picture" .

The plan as it stands, will not work.

Why? Because every year 3 teams come down from the PL with £120m in their pocket plus of course parachute payments, they are not always replaced by the 3 that got relegated the year before = more teams in this league with ££££.

Answer - get up asap, accept you might get relegated, but you too have the £££ - therefore you can compete to get back there.

We are not too many seasons away from it being almost, not completely, but almost impossible to get promoted, unless you have already been there.

This ridiculous romantics notion that we will get promoted with a squad of Bristolians that have come through they Academy is beyond farce.

Bang on the money ScottishRed - we may not get another chance for 20 years!

[BRISTOL86]

I don’t believe for one single second that the club don’t want promotion. I do believe that we made a conscious decision to not waver from our recruitment strategy in order to guarantee it this season  - rightly or wrongly - and I think MA chose his words badly in trying to express this.

(Although - whilst he didn’t express it well - there’s also been a lot of clearly deliberate twisting of his words on here)

[Ska Junkie]

My perspective on this is slightly different I think.

Yes, we're disappointed that we've dropped from an automatic promotion spot to 7th and yes, we haven't been at it for some time now, but, if we had done a 'Millwall' and come charging out of the pack to be where we currently are, we would be ecstatic. I appreciate current performances don't fill us with hope that we will make the top 6 but we're still in there with a fair chance.

As for MA's comments in January, I took them more as being, it doesn't have to be this year rather than we're not ready. Whether that turns out to be a correct assessment, time will tell but I didn't read it as we're 'not ready', more that it's not a disaster if it isn't this year.

I'm probably wrong, I usually am.

[View from the Dolman]

7 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

Rumour has it the club (MA) did not want to pay some of the big fat agent fees for the type of players we needed, others did. Apparently BCFC paid less than £1M last 12 months to agents I was told at Brentford game whereas some clubs paid millions! You get £100M in Premier for finishing bottom!

Sunderland paid millions. That's going well for them.

Reading paid millions. That's going well for them.

Birmingham paid millions. That's going well for them.

Norwich City paid millions. That's going well for them.

Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest and QPR all paid out more than us. That's going well for them.

===========================================================

BOLTON WANDERERS £223,432
IPSWICH TOWN £241,969
BURTON ALBION £268,490
MILLWALL £311,505
BARNSLEY £419,638
SHEFFIELD UNITED £652,070
BRISTOL CITY £843,174
PRESTON NORTH END £1,046,679
NOTTINGHAM FOREST £1,141,512
LEEDS UNITED £1,349,452
BRENTFORD £1,690,415
SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY £1,714,130
QUEENS PARK RANGERS £1,817,113
HULL CITY £1,882,530
WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS £2,001,023
CARDIFF CITY £2,026,917
DERBY COUNTY £2,180,305
NORWICH CITY £2,212,410
FULHAM £2,428,175
BIRMINGHAM CITY £2,461,909
MIDDLESBROUGH £2,538,840
READING £2,850,283
SUNDERLAND £4,370,897
ASTON VILLA £5,510,180

[Tinmans Love Child]

Next season we will have the likes of Stoke, Southampton, West Brom etc joining an already strong league of ex prem teams like Middlesbrough, Hull, Villa, etc etc it’s going to be a long tough season yet again, and if we lose some key players in the summer, regardless of the money we get, I’m not 100% confident we would be even able to replace them, let alone improve the overall squad.

I cannot imagine the club have had a deliberate ploy to avoid promotion this season, especially for reasons of not being ready for the Prem, I think it’s as simple as we unfortunately hit a bad few months of form which we have been unable to shake off, such a shame as we should and could have walked into the playoffs this season with time to spare

[RedM]

Feels very different to 10 years ago doesn’t it. Back then we really believed we had a chance of promotion to the Premiership and there was a buzz around the place. Going to matches was exciting, the players were up for it, the fans were too, there was a belief and togetherness. Little Bristol City were closing in on the premier league. We were going into the unknown. Nobody expected us to do well but here we were, we had momentum. No pressure on us as we really shouldn’t have been there.

Fast forward 10 years, and again we found ourselves going well. But what happened? It was too early for the fans to get too excited, so no pressure from the fans. Were the players getting the ease off message to protect them, I doubt it as it was too soon for promotion to be very realistic when the wheels jammed if not came off. All we had to do is keep pace with some of our rivals, but we couldn’t get going again and have limped along since January really. 

Many people point at the cup games for finishing us. With the right motivation those games should have done the opposite. We would be playing games like those half the season in the Premiership instead of one off’s. 

I’m sure the plan is to just scrape into the playoffs and then we would be the surprise package with momentum. Dangerous tactic to try to get right though, when your players are looking so fragile that anyone can beat them. Even if we don’t get promoted there could be at least 2 big games and hopefully a third, when has our club every turned down a money making opportunity? 

Many of you have also made the point I totally agree with, that there is no guarantee when the opportunity may arise again. 10 years time we could be having our next shot at it and be looking back at the long departed words of Mark Ashton wondering why when it was in our grasp we didn’t bother. 

Yes go up and yo-yo but at least with parachute payments we are at least on a more level playing field than we have ever been.

[Tinmans Love Child]

11 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Sunderland paid millions. That's going well for them.

Reading paid millions. That's going well for them.

Birmingham paid millions. That's going well for them.

Norwich City paid millions. That's going well for them.

Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest and QPR all paid out more than us. That's going well for them.

===========================================================

BOLTON WANDERERS £223,432
IPSWICH TOWN £241,969
BURTON ALBION £268,490
MILLWALL £311,505
BARNSLEY £419,638
SHEFFIELD UNITED £652,070
BRISTOL CITY £843,174
PRESTON NORTH END £1,046,679
NOTTINGHAM FOREST £1,141,512
LEEDS UNITED £1,349,452
BRENTFORD £1,690,415
SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY £1,714,130
QUEENS PARK RANGERS £1,817,113
HULL CITY £1,882,530
WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS £2,001,023
CARDIFF CITY £2,026,917
DERBY COUNTY £2,180,305
NORWICH CITY £2,212,410
FULHAM £2,428,175
BIRMINGHAM CITY £2,461,909
MIDDLESBROUGH £2,538,840
READING £2,850,283
SUNDERLAND £4,370,897
ASTON VILLA £5,510,180

It went well for Villa, Middlesbrough, Fulham, Derby, Cardiff, Wolves though 

[Top Robin]

12 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

This has circled since January, and our least active transfer window under LJ/MA, and Mark Ashton's interview in the Post in February, in which they reported that MA confirmed that we were set up for the long term and "not specifically targetting promotion this season."

It's not that long ago that we arrived back in the Championship and had a nightmare summer trying to recruit and rocked up at Sheffield Wednesday wholly unprepared with Wes Burns coming on to replace an injured Joe Bryan. We weren't ready, we were still a bit "L1." Shambles.

Since then, our recruitment has been mixed, at best. We have fired Des whatsisname and not sure we have replaced him permanently? We have had the Engvall carry on and recruitment continues to be challenging, the loans particularly this season have been abysmal. Weakened us, if anything.

I'm not sure we are ready to recruit successfully for the PL and with the summer of 2015 fresh in the club's memory, perhaps there is something in this? 

Do we want to find ourselves in the PL about as ready for it as we were the Championship in 2015, where the level of exposure and media interest would be somewhat embarrassing for the "high ups" were we a little bit undercooked, on and off the pitch? 

I believe that the club are more than satisfied with this season already, and not fussed about the play offs this time. I think this is evident now in the standard of the first team for a few weeks now. I wonder if they feel there is more to do yet before we are ready to go for it in this league, and that another year in the Championship will allow us to improve our "set up" and be better in the long run.

Looking at our hit and miss recruitment, I'd tend to agree with them. We don't need it just yet. And we don't need to be on MOTD every Saturday night getting embarrassed, like Cardiff next season.

 

 

The problem is that you will be able to copy and paste this post in 5 years time as it will also be relevant then......nothing flipping changes.

This long term plan thing is spin to keep the supporters on side.......its BS and is not working anyway.

I for one believe that if we do get promoted then the team that starts in the Prem will be whole lot different and better to the one we have now thanks in part to the promotion windfall. 

Lets not be frightened about the Prem, let's embrace the excitement and experience of promotion and playing with the big boys.

If poxy little clubs like Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Swamsea and Southampton can do it, so can we! 

Some of us have waited too long for this and 

[Gert Mare]

11 hours ago, RedNight said:

The thing is mate, that is currently the clubs philosophy and you have to respect that. 

If Lansdown said to LJ, "here's £50mill, go get players". Johnson would bite his hand off. But that's not going to happen. And if that is your main bugbear, then thst lies with SL, not LJ.

Johnson has been brilliant for SL's philosophy. Because he's nurtured so many of our young lads into solid, and in some cases, excellent championship footballers. 

I think Johnson, with the resources is doing a good job. No way have we got anywhere near the best squad in the league, but we're 7th. And we've done that by squeezing everyone out of these lads, to a point I think we've ran out of steam.

Because of this, people question Jan business, but that's not a problem of LJ's. 

But the nurtured players will be off to bigger and more ambitious clubs in the not too distant future, and so we will have to start again. The idea that we are going to nurture home grown talent and end up in the Premier League in this day and age is pie in the sky garbage, and anyone who believes it will happen in my opinion are gullible and naive, just like the Rovers supporters who believe it when Wally says that they are evolving but these things take time when in actual fact he is saying that they have no money and require investors to invest.

10 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

That's a good post JD, but Huddersfield seized their chance last season and have a decent chance of staying in the Premier League beyond May. 

We've only had two terms in the top flight. With our best days prior to the launch of the Titanic.

I'm sure that our wonderful fans of all ages would be delighted to see their club perform in the Premier League.

Who wouldn't?

Huddersfield have also spent in excess of £100 Million which is a massive boom or bust gamble. If they don’t stay up they are going to be in a bit of financial trouble one would expect?!

9 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

There is a huge amount of frustration among most fans at how a season which promised so much is likely to end with nothing more than a sad little whimper as per our frankly pathetic performance on Monday.

Whether there is a larger ulterior motive amongst those in charge of the club, I have no idea, but from the outside, to have slipped from second halfway through the season to potentially not even making the playoffs looks like a golden opportunity that may not come around for another 10 years having been wasted. Remember we took 28 years from relegation from the top flight to having a chance to go back there, and since then we haven't even had anything close to a sniff of anything similar until this season. 

There is only so much planning that you can do in football, because you can't control what other clubs do. Just like the small print on SL's financial products, past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Who would have guessed after Liverpool last won the league in 1990 after years of domination that they wouldn't win it again in the subsequent 28 years?

In the parlance of a terrace chant, "Second place & we fu**ed it up, even the playoffs, we fu**ed it up".

Start next season like we have finished this one, and there won't just be disappointment there will be outright anger. It will not be pretty, and then all the talk of "building for the future" will seem like even more of a fantasy.

Top post. Absolutely spot on.

 

[Gert Mare]

7 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

The problem is that you will be able to copy and paste this post in 5 years time as it will also be relevant then......nothing flipping changes.

This long term plan thing is spin to keep the supporters on side.......its BS and is not working anyway.

I for one believe that if we do get promoted then the team that starts in the Prem will be whole lot different and better to the one we have now thanks in part to the promotion windfall. 

Lets not be frightened about the Prem, let's embrace the excitement and experience of promotion and playing with the big boys.

If poxy little clubs like Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Swamsea and Southampton can do it, so can we! 

Some of us have waited too long for this and 

How are those 5 pillars getting on?

[joeyb]

9 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

The problem is that you will be able to copy and paste this post in 5 years time as it will also be relevant then......nothing flipping changes.

This long term plan thing is spin to keep the supporters on side.......its BS and is not working anyway.

I for one believe that if we do get promoted then the team that starts in the Prem will be whole lot different and better to the one we have now thanks in part to the promotion windfall. 

Lets not be frightened about the Prem, let's embrace the excitement and experience of promotion and playing with the big boys.

If poxy little clubs like Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Swamsea and Southampton can do it, so can we! 

Some of us have waited too long for this and 

How can you say for sure that the long term plan isn't working. Since SL announced the infamous 5 pillars, I think the year of our relegation to L1:

• We had a poor season in transition in L1 but finished mid-table
• Won the L1 title and JPT with a number of young players, many of which are the core of this very team
• Survived in the Championship, with LJ now in charge - known as a progressive upcoming manager with previous history with the club
• A mixed and tough season in the Championship where we started well but tailed off massively - still surviving in the Champ
• Finally this season making a challenge at the right end of the Championship for the first time in decade. Add a memorable league cup run to that. And it's still not over

How you can say that a long term plan isn't in place beggars belief.

[View from the Dolman]

14 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

It went well for Villa, Middlesbrough, Fulham, Derby, Cardiff, Wolves though 

Bit early to be jumping to conclusions for a few of those clubs, I'd say. They won't all be dancing the promotion dance.

[BS2 Red]

It’s never too early for promotion, you take it whenever you can get it because it may well be a long long time before you get the chance again.

I remember lots of people saying it was too early in 2008, maybe it was, but we didn’t exactly build from there.

I don’t think we will go up this season, but I’d bite your hand off for the chance to be in the Premier League next season, even if we went straight back down.

[Major Isewater]

12 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Think we recruit well in the summer. Awful in january when we need a boost. They have brought in too many players though. This in turn means some of the expensive young players bought don’t get a look in. I am sure out of Engvall, Walsh, Eliasson and Moore along with Kelly, Vyner, Morrell and a few others there are a couple duds and a couple stars but we will never know because there are too many fringe players in their mid 20s and older taking a spot. 

As far as what MA said in Feb about not specifically targeting promotion, I know what he meant but it didn’t need to be said at all. 

Too many players , a good point but the problem at the beginning of the season was the change in loan  rules.

The new rules are difficult to adhere to and means on any matchday hundreds of good pros are kicking their heels and not a football.

Well thought out Plan to keep the big clubs at an advantage.

Disaster for the many.

 

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, spudski said:

Why people keep banging on about the Jan transfer window beats me. We have no idea what budget was available and who wanted to come here. We also don't know what has been planned for the summer.

Also regarding teams coming down from the Prem with money...it doesn't make any sense either. The same players have to be motivated and managed. Look at Sunderland and Hull.

Fans bang on about how poor things are at the moment, but they are for other teams with far more resources and experience.

We've done remarkably well this season considering.

Unfortunately disappointment leads to dissecting every part of the club when things aren't going our way.

It's all a bit silly really.

Quite simply top players demand top wages , if we can't financially compete with ex Prem clubs then we will struggle to bring in the quality needed to compete on the pitch.

As  for the January window , true we don't know what the budget was but we do know that it was wasted .

As for the Summer , apparently Ashton is planning for another season in the Championship and doesn't want the inconvenience of a Prem targets list to prepare.

There is not just disappointment about ' how things are at the moment  ' but a complete and utter incomprehension as to what's happened to the football our team was playing and , I'll add personally, a concern over the forthcoming season .

We are in relegation form . We will most likely have to rebuild the team in the summer as I can't see our top players , now in their primes , wanting to stay if there is an opportunity of a bigger wage packet and silverware.

We have gone from being decisive and sure of ourselves as a club to a rudderless ship with no apparent direction.

That's why I'm concerned.

As the Stranglers said 

" Something better change " .

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Too many players , a good point but the problem at the beginning of the season was the change in loan  rules.

The new rules are difficult to adhere to and means on any matchday hundreds of good pros are kicking their heels and not a football.

Others appear to make better use of the loan system than us so perhaps we should ask why that is?

Interesting how we took Caulker with Rose as a make-weight and how their performances under us wholly contradict their subsequent career paths. I thought the success we had with Chelsea and Abraham would really have led somewhere and....well, what happened there? I do know that Klopp's coaches will have looked at the respective performances of Kent at Barnsley and here with us and we'd be lucky to cadge the price of a cup of tea from him next term. We loaned Diony, a player whose game is signally based on everything we don't do collectively - might as well have signed a keeper to play upfront so how did we get that so very, very wrong?

If it's true there are many good players kicking heels then why haven't we identified them and acquired their services? I don't buy the 'Bristol' factor either, strange how the city is always near the best / most exciting places to live polls yet the draw of Hull, Barnsley and Rotherham appeals more.

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

As the Stranglers said 

" Something better change "

"Oh S**t,There goes the charabang," is more apt....

[Tinmans Love Child]

1 hour ago, View from the Dolman said:

Bit early to be jumping to conclusions for a few of those clubs, I'd say. They won't all be dancing the promotion dance.

True and I’m glad we don’t pay agents personally, however the original teams mentioned to prove the point that paying agents doesn’t work, selectively left out all the teams which are above us in the league so was misleading

[Tinmans Love Child]

13 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Congratulations on "seeing the bigger picture" .

The plan as it stands, will not work.

Why? Because every year 3 teams come down from the PL with £120m in their pocket plus of course parachute payments, they are not always replaced by the 3 that got relegated the year before = more teams in this league with ££££.

Answer - get up asap, accept you might get relegated, but you too have the £££ - therefore you can compete to get back there.

We are not too many seasons away from it being almost, not completely, but almost impossible to get promoted, unless you have already been there.

This ridiculous romantics notion that we will get promoted with a squad of Bristolians that have come through they Academy is beyond farce.

If that’s the case then I’d rather never get to the Prem to be honest, the Sky propaganda machine has for years pumped it down everyone’s throats that the Prem is the best league in the world, blah blah blah, and there is a whole generation now who believe it and can’t remember what football was like before.

If the criteria for the Prem being the best league is they screw fans over with outrageous ticket prices, Sky subscription fees, shirt prices etc whilst paying bang average players a fortune then I guess it is, but why would anyone want to conform to that?

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see City playing the top teams at Ashton Gate, the Man Utd game was great, but not at all costs.  I would much rather produce our own players and have a team of local lads in the Champ, than sell out getting to the Prem, and no youngsters get a chance at all, and we end up with a team of either Prem journeyman or more dodgy foreign players!  

[BobBobSuperBob]

People judging success compared to agents fees are seriously misguided

Agents fees are only one part of a deal with so many factors contributing to fees

Sunderland signed a lot of free transfers for example which normally incur bigger agent fees 

Agent fees are no real  (accuarate)  guide to accurate total recruitment budgets / expenditure

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Quite simply top players demand top wages , if we can't financially compete with ex Prem clubs then we will struggle to bring in the quality needed to compete on the pitch.

As  for the January window , true we don't know what the budget was but we do know that it was wasted .

As for the Summer , apparently Ashton is planning for another season in the Championship and doesn't want the inconvenience of a Prem targets list to prepare.

There is not just disappointment about ' how things are at the moment  ' but a complete and utter incomprehension as to what's happened to the football our team was playing and , I'll add personally, a concern over the forthcoming season .

We are in relegation form . We will most likely have to rebuild the team in the summer as I can't see our top players , now in their primes , wanting to stay if there is an opportunity of a bigger wage packet and silverware.

We have gone from being decisive and sure of ourselves as a club to a rudderless ship with no apparent direction.

That's why I'm concerned.

As the Stranglers said 

" Something better change " .

That might be so Major, but I do believe if we had had Pisano, Famara, Duric, Odowda, Hegeler, Oneil, Taylor, to pick from more regularly during the season, then things may have been slightly brighter.

Then those who have been carrying knocks and playing with injuries/illnesses....Baker, Wright, Patto, Bryan, Smith, Pack and others then it's all going to take it's toll over the season.

We can dissect as much as we want...but you can't take away the fact that this season has been a nightmare with injuries, and some have had to play more, some with knocks, and then we have returning players from injuries, who will take time to settle. It all adds up.

If we had had less injuries to prime players and a bigger healthier squad to rotate with over the season, then I would have been more concerned with what's happening.

However...it hasn't been like that.

I watched on Saturday...we tried to play 'our way' but physically and mentally were slower. We haven't been trying to do anything different...the players aren't confused.

We are just knackered through circumstance.

We've gambled in January rather than spending big, as we know we have quality coming back.

Imo....because of these reasons, there is no point trying to find other possible problems, because I don't believe there is anything major going wrong elsewhere at the club.

 

 

[View from the Dolman]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

People judging success compared to agents fees are seriously misguided

Agents fees are only one part of a deal with so many factors contributing to fees

Sunderland signed a lot of free transfers for example which normally incur bigger agent fees 

Agent fees are no real  (accuarate)  guide to accurate total recruitment budgets / expenditure

I concur. It's far from the only measure. They also include agent fees for contract extensions so a club with good squad retention can still ring up agent fees.

But it's interesting to note that Brentford outspent us on agent fees in the latest set of those figures and outspent us on wages for the last period (15/16 season) where records can currently be compared (until Brentford FC Ltd file their next set of accounts). So the purported "shoestring budget" at Brentford pedalled by @tinman85 appears to be a complete fabrication.

[BobBobSuperBob]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

That might be so Major, but I do believe if we had had Pisano, Famara, Duric, Odowda, Hegeler, Oneil, Taylor, to pick from more regularly during the season, then things may have been slightly brighter.

Then those who have been carrying knocks and playing with injuries/illnesses....Baker, Wright, Patto, Bryan, Smith, Pack and others then it's all going to take it's toll over the season.

We can dissect as much as we want...but you can't take away the fact that this season has been a nightmare with injuries, and some have had to play more, some with knocks, and then we have returning players from injuries, who will take time to settle. It all adds up.

If we had had less injuries to prime players and a bigger healthier squad to rotate with over the season, then I would have been more concerned with what's happening.

However...it hasn't been like that.

I watched on Saturday...we tried to play 'our way' but physically and mentally were slower. We haven't been trying to do anything different...the players aren't confused.

We are just knackered through circumstance.

We've gambled in January rather than spending big, as we know we have quality coming back.

Imo....because of these reasons, there is no point trying to find other possible problems, because I don't believe there is anything major going wrong elsewhere at the club.

 

 

Sorry Spud but your being over protective again

He has a fair squad  which is his squad after 5 windows and recruitment of 30or so 0layers but just doesn’t trust or rate most of them and keeps them in the stands or sends them out to Sweden or Cheltenham

Pushing the loanees aside he still had Woodrow , Eliasson etc to utilise 

Now we can debate the merits or not of those players but he’s added greatly to his own problems by filling the squad with players who , he then appears to decide he doesn’t rate or ‘trust’

In simple terms we weren’t down to 11 fit players 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

That might be so Major, but I do believe if we had had Pisano, Famara, Duric, Odowda, Hegeler, Oneil, Taylor, to pick from more regularly during the season, then things may have been slightly brighter.

Then those who have been carrying knocks and playing with injuries/illnesses....Baker, Wright, Patto, Bryan, Smith, Pack and others then it's all going to take it's toll over the season.

We can dissect as much as we want...but you can't take away the fact that this season has been a nightmare with injuries, and some have had to play more, some with knocks, and then we have returning players from injuries, who will take time to settle. It all adds up.

If we had had less injuries to prime players and a bigger healthier squad to rotate with over the season, then I would have been more concerned with what's happening.

However...it hasn't been like that.

I watched on Saturday...we tried to play 'our way' but physically and mentally were slower. We haven't been trying to do anything different...the players aren't confused.

We are just knackered through circumstance.

We've gambled in January rather than spending big, as we know we have quality coming back.

Imo....because of these reasons, there is no point trying to find other possible problems, because I don't believe there is anything major going wrong elsewhere at the club.

 

 

Tactics though?

4-4-2, our variant of 4-4-2 just has been found out IMO, for us. It's been found out and particularly away from home it will be not too difficult to combat. 

I agree the injuries have been dreadful- significantly worse than many clubs this season (Sheffield Wednesday the notable and clear exception). The fact that our physio said it was the worst in his 30 years of football, with double the number of operations as usual, speaks volumes IMO. It all adds up, cumulative.

However, still I see tactical flaws and questionable substitutions on a frequent basis. Be it inflexibility of shape, or trying to put backup players in and shoehorn them into one shape, or even not tailoring shape to an opponent, which can put us on the backfoot- this is all true.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

I concur. It's far from the only measure. They also include agent fees for contract extensions so a club with good squad retention can still ring up agent fees.

But it's interesting to note that Brentford outspent us on agent fees in the latest set of those figures and outspent us on wages for the last period (15/16 season) where records can currently be compared (until Brentford FC Ltd file their next set of accounts). So the purported "shoestring budget" at Brentford pedalled by @tinman85 appears to be a complete fabrication.

Don’t want to get embroiled in this particular row but it really is no guide

We spent over £2million on Engvall (Agents fees who knows but let’s say a meagre £100 k just for example)

If Brentford or another Club sign a player for £600k but  pay the agent £500k for sorting the deal

Our agent fees would be far lower but our overall expenditure wouldn’t before we even look at comparing the quality of player

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Sorry Spud but your being over protective again

He has a fair squad but just doesn’t trust or rate most of them and keeps them in the stands or sends them out to Sweden or Cheltenham

Pushing the loanees aside he still had Woodrow , Eliasson etc to utilise 

Now we can debate the merits or not of those players but he’s added greatly to his own problems by filling the squad with players who , he then appears to decide he doesn’t rate or ‘trust’

In simple terms we weren’t down to 11 fit players 

Indeed. And Fammy coming back has served us well. As good as I genuinely think he is, we were much better without.

Personally I would explain to FD why he will be our danger sub for the remainder of the season and next season the attack will be built around him. Let's be honest, Bobby Reid is not going to be here next year, and I expect everyone in the club is aware of that, so it isn't a difficult message to convey. 

[View from the Dolman]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don’t want to get embroiled in this particular row but it really is no guide

We spent over £2million on Engvall (Agents fees who knows but let’s say a meagre £100 k just for example)

If Brentford or another Club sign a player for £600k but  pay the agent £500k for sorting the deal

Our agent fees would be far lower but our overall expenditure wouldn’t before we even look at comparing the quality of player

I'm not seeing where we're disagreeing tbh! I'm definitely not seeing the agent fees as being the only measure. The company accounts for the last period where they can be directly compared show Brentford outspending us on wages too.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, View from the Dolman said:

I'm not seeing where we're disagreeing tbh! I'm definitely not seeing the agent fees as being the only measure. The company accounts for the last period where they can be directly compared show Brentford outspending us on wages too.

I was more addressing the ‘debate’ about ‘Brentford’s shoestring budget’

Just pointing out that the agent fees they paid really gives no indication of their overall recruitment budget 

 

What did astound me was the crap Wages we we were offering for , IIRC the head of recruitment job - The annual wage offered Wouldn’t pay the first teams wages for a week - Madness IMHO when that role is pivotal in the future success or otherwise

[Tin Soldier]

3 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

Sunderland paid millions. That's going well for them.

Reading paid millions. That's going well for them.

Birmingham paid millions. That's going well for them.

Norwich City paid millions. That's going well for them.

Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest and QPR all paid out more than us. That's going well for them.

===========================================================

BOLTON WANDERERS £223,432
IPSWICH TOWN £241,969
BURTON ALBION £268,490
MILLWALL £311,505
BARNSLEY £419,638
SHEFFIELD UNITED £652,070
BRISTOL CITY £843,174
PRESTON NORTH END £1,046,679
NOTTINGHAM FOREST £1,141,512
LEEDS UNITED £1,349,452
BRENTFORD £1,690,415
SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY £1,714,130
QUEENS PARK RANGERS £1,817,113
HULL CITY £1,882,530
WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS £2,001,023
CARDIFF CITY £2,026,917
DERBY COUNTY £2,180,305
NORWICH CITY £2,212,410
FULHAM £2,428,175
BIRMINGHAM CITY £2,461,909
MIDDLESBROUGH £2,538,840
READING £2,850,283
SUNDERLAND £4,370,897
ASTON VILLA £5,510,180

You are really plucking at straws here - I will let others highlight the teams that are doing well! All up there in play off contention also. The fact is we need astute acquisitions, and January was a complete car crash! End Off!

[Major Isewater]

28 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Indeed. And Fammy coming back has served us well. As good as I genuinely think he is, we were much better without.

Personally I would explain to FD why he will be our danger sub for the remainder of the season and next season the attack will be built around him. Let's be honest, Bobby Reid is not going to be here next year, and I expect everyone in the club is aware of that, so it isn't a difficult message to convey. 

And what would you say to Djuric ? 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

And what would you say to Djuric ? 

ti si velika gomila