Progress under Lansdown

[h hills left shoe]

3 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

And who is the improved stadium for anyway?

Bristol bears! 

[1bristolcity]

2 hours ago, BigTone said:

We've come a long way, except where it matters on the pitch

And the top half of the Championship, as opposed to the bottom. Of course we are work in progress, however that is not good enough for some, even if we managed to get into the playoffs, we just would not be ready for the Prem, even if we managed to win promotion. If this season happened to be a reverse in form, and we were storming up the league right now we would all be seeing things differently. we have it in us to be a good footballing team, we have witnessed it, it will happen, promotion, just not this season. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

And the top half of the Championship, as opposed to the bottom. Of course we are work in progress, however that is not good enough for some, even if we managed to get into the playoffs, we just would not be ready for the Prem, even if we managed to win promotion. If this season happened to be a reverse in form, and we were storming up the league right now we would all be seeing things differently. we have it in us to be a good footballing team, we have witnessed it, it will happen, promotion, just not this season. 

I’ll have a decent wager with you now that we will get relegated before we get promoted unless something substantial changes

[Chicken George]

I don’t have a problem with what Steve Lansdown has done for our club. His MAJOR mistake is allowing his incompetent fool of a son to have his mistake-ridden mittens all over it. 

Oh, and employing total fraudsters like Mark Ashton is a foolish move too. 

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

If there ever was a thread that deserves one of these 

 

SL has pumped MILLIONS of his own money into the club. Making sure we are sustainable. He’s pumped millions into Bristol Sport. Building facilities the city could only dream of. 

 

Okay on the pitch we haven’t really progressed. But what team has? What team has gone from being the nothing team to being a big club in 15 years? Apart from 

Stoke, Swansea and Bournemouth. 

I can’t think of any others. The other teams have been around the top tier of English football for god knows how long. 

 

When you look at the owners in charge of clubs I’m happy that SL has control of City.

 

Brum, Leeds, Pompey (Old owners), Sunderland, Hull, Coventry, Blackburn, Forest (old owners/new ones aren’t much better) our Billionare (if you’re using Vietnamese dollars as currency) friend north of the river, Cardiff, West Ham, Charlton, Blackpool......

 

we could be in a much much much much worse position than where we are now.

 

[ontariored]

18 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

If there ever was a thread that deserves one of these 

 

SL has pumped MILLIONS of his own money into the club. Making sure we are sustainable. He’s pumped millions into Bristol Sport. Building facilities the city could only dream of. 

 

Okay on the pitch we haven’t really progressed. But what team has? What team has gone from being the nothing team to being a big club in 15 years? Apart from 

Stoke, Swansea and Bournemouth. 

I can’t think of any others. The other teams have been around the top tier of English football for god knows how long. 

 

When you look at the owners in charge of clubs I’m happy that SL has control of City.

 

Brum, Leeds, Pompey (Old owners), Sunderland, Hull, Coventry, Blackburn, Forest (old owners/new ones aren’t much better) our Billionare (if you’re using Vietnamese dollars as currency) friend north of the river, Cardiff, West Ham, Charlton, Blackpool......

 

we could be in a much much much much worse position than where we are now.

 

Agreed. Let's hope SL continues to enjoy wasting his money. We get to do it again next year.  and watch!!!!

 

[Distortia]

What a wholly bizarre post. You answered your own question in the original post, then ask the same thing. It's like me saying:

"What games have we won this season?

You can talk about our wins over Barnsley, Reading, Derby, Bolton, Ipswich, Sunderland, Fulham, Cardiff, Hull, Boro, Sheff Utd, Forest, Reading, QPR, Wednesday, Ipswich, Watford, Stoke, Palace and Man Utd.

But who have we actually beaten this year?"

[DaveInSA]

To be honest I don’t know. I don’t understand the motives of an intelligent and wealthy man, who chooses to live “abroad”, so he avoids paying tax in England. It’s not illegal, but is it ethical?

The man cashed in shares worth £780 million pounds last year. Would he miss 200million of it? Which could have been spent in the NHS? Why do you need to have so much money? 

If he really wanted to get BCFC to the premier league he would have done it years ago.

I also have to chuckle when I see that he’s chucked millions st the club so that we could be sustainable! How is that sustainable? We’re still making a loss every year....!

[glynriley]

9 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

To be honest I don’t know. I don’t understand the motives of an intelligent and wealthy man, who chooses to live “abroad”, so he avoids paying tax in England. It’s not illegal, but is it ethical?

The man cashed in shares worth £780 million pounds last year. Would he miss 200million of it? Which could have been spent in the NHS? Why do you need to have so much money? 

If he really wanted to get BCFC to the premier league he would have done it years ago.

I also have to chuckle when I see that he’s chucked millions st the club so that we could be sustainable! How is that sustainable? We’re still making a loss every year....!

Bingo

[red panda]

35 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

To be honest I don’t know. I don’t understand the motives of an intelligent and wealthy man, who chooses to live “abroad”, so he avoids paying tax in England. It’s not illegal, but is it ethical?

The man cashed in shares worth £780 million pounds last year. Would he miss 200million of it? Which could have been spent in the NHS? Why do you need to have so much money? 

If he really wanted to get BCFC to the premier league he would have done it years ago.

I also have to chuckle when I see that he’s chucked millions st the club so that we could be sustainable! How is that sustainable? We’re still making a loss every year....!

OK Einstein, why don't you list all the football clubs that make a profit every year?

[Kid in the Riot]

37 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Bingo

Indeed, Bristol City will progress at the speed that Steve Lansdown wants it to.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

52 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

To be honest I don’t know. I don’t understand the motives of an intelligent and wealthy man, who chooses to live “abroad”, so he avoids paying tax in England. It’s not illegal, but is it ethical?

The man cashed in shares worth £780 million pounds last year. Would he miss 200million of it? Which could have been spent in the NHS? Why do you need to have so much money? 

If he really wanted to get BCFC to the premier league he would have done it years ago.

I also have to chuckle when I see that he’s chucked millions st the club so that we could be sustainable! How is that sustainable? We’re still making a loss every year....!

Forgot it’s as easy as wanting to get in the prem to get promotion......

He tried, he signed David James and a host of others with Prem experience but that isn’t sustainable, they play for a couple of years and high wages and F off elsewhere. 

 

Wolves and Newcastle aside, I can’t recall a team buying there way out this league. Burnley, Bournemouth, Swansea, Brighton, Norwich all done it on relatively low budgets. 

[paulcityfan]

I was just thinking this today as the hordes left after Hulls 5th went in.  Just something stops short of real ambition here.

I cringe when I see 'owner' as SL's position in the programme.  Some people go into life wanting to do many things.  Steve Lansdown wanted to make money, lots of money.  So he has his name on a stand.  He bought it.  The other stands Atyeo, Dolman and Wedlock (if I can call it that) earned it.

So if you have shedloads of dough you can buy a club then you can hold it back by dithering with a tiny fractional percentage of your wealth.  Jack Walker did it in real style when he bought Blackburn not only into the top flight but he got the big one, the title.  OK so we know where Blackburn are now but i'm sure they had a heck of a ride at the time.  I'd quite like that.

So its piss or get off the pot Mr Lansdown.  I'm not getting any younger

[BobBobSuperBob]

17 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Forgot it’s as easy as wanting to get in the prem to get promotion......

He tried, he signed David James and a host of others with Prem experience but that isn’t sustainable, they play for a couple of years and high wages and F off elsewhere. 

 

Wolves and Newcastle aside, I can’t recall a team buying there way out this league. Burnley, Bournemouth, Swansea, Brighton, Norwich all done it on relatively low budgets. 

You  absolutely sure about that ?

[AshtonGreat]

2 hours ago, h hills left shoe said:

Bristol bears! 

Basically!

[RumRed]

33 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Forgot it’s as easy as wanting to get in the prem to get promotion......

He tried, he signed David James and a host of others with Prem experience but that isn’t sustainable, they play for a couple of years and high wages and F off elsewhere. 

 

Wolves and Newcastle aside, I can’t recall a team buying there way out this league. Burnley, Bournemouth, Swansea, Brighton, Norwich all done it on relatively low budgets. 

Lolz, David James and push to the prem?  Just yet another waste of money.  I'm not asking for more money I'm asking for competence when it's spent.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You  absolutely sure about that ?

They spent money the same way we have. On the behind the scenes work. On playing staff which is the argument being made they were mainly prem cast offs on the cheap or players that stayed with them on the way up. 

 

Bournemouth - Promotion season. 2 x Free transfers, Callum Wilson undisclosed from Coventry (can’t imagine it was more than £1m) and Surman in a swap deal with Lewis Grabban.

 

Swansea - Total team costs approx £3m when promoted. 

 

Brighton - Promotion season. Duffy £4.5m, Norwood £1m, Murray undisclosed but guessing not above £2m. Remaining free transfers

 

So yes, I am sure about that.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

They spent money the same way we have. On the behind the scenes work. On playing staff which is the argument being made they were mainly prem cast offs on the cheap or players that stayed with them on the way up. 

 

Bournemouth - Promotion season. 2 x Free transfers, Callum Wilson undisclosed from Coventry (can’t imagine it was more than £1m) and Surman in a swap deal with Lewis Grabban.

 

Swansea - Total team costs approx £3m when promoted. 

 

Brighton - Promotion season. Duffy £4.5m, Norwood £1m, Murray undisclosed but guessing not above £2m. Remaining free transfers

 

So yes, I am sure about that.

From memory Think you will find Bournemouth certainly , and if not over ,the other two were pushing exceeding FFP

youve just considered fees not wages by the looks 

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

2 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Lolz, David James and push to the prem?  Just yet another waste of money.  I'm not asking for more money I'm asking for competence when it's spent.

You can’t guarantee a player will be a success though. People were raving for a Bridges/Stewart strike partnership. That ended well. 

The best players we’ve signed have been the relatively unknown players. Basso, Orr, Elliott, Adomah, Smith, Flint, Brownhill etc. Low fee for what we got in return. 

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

From memory Think you will find Bournemouth certainly , and if not over ,the other two were pushing exceeding FFP

youve just considered fees not wages by the looks 

Even with wages Brighton would be the only one with high earners but then again they have players who would be under the Championship average by quite some way. 

Bournemouth won the league with pretty much the same team that got them into the championship. The players they added aren’t exactly high earners. Same with Swansea, a lot of players bought from the Spanish second division where wages aren’t exactly at a premium or youth players from Prem teams. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

You can’t guarantee a player will be a success though. People were raving for a Bridges/Stewart strike partnership. That ended well. 

The best players we’ve signed have been the relatively unknown players. Basso, Orr, Elliott, Adomah, Smith, Flint, Brownhill etc. Low fee for what we got in return. 

Even with wages Brighton would be the only one with high earners but then again they have players who would be under the Championship average by quite some way. 

Bournemouth won the league with pretty much the same team that got them into the championship. The players they added aren’t exactly high earners. Same with Swansea, a lot of players bought from the Spanish second division where wages aren’t exactly at a premium or youth players from Prem teams. 

Certainly don’t want to get embroiled in a elongated debate about it but I think you’re estimations and beliefs are incorrect

Im going from  memory and reading various articles

To ensure i wasnt going completely mad I did a very quick search re Bournemouth as an example

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3069401/Bournemouth-promotion-comes-cost-Cherries-owner-Maxim-Demin-Premier-League-new-boys-announce-debt-21-5m.html

 

http://www.cityam.com/214581/how-bournemouths-promotion-push-was-funded-russian-millionaire

[BCFC Rich]

5 hours ago, 054123 said:

Improved league position? Since when?

it improved, went backwards, improved, went backwards.

as for the off team he field things, you do realise the whole point of this is football, not building a brand to sell on

I'll admit that my typo on the word four (I put 'for') makes my post a little bit less clear but I think its still clear I am talking about final league position and not talking about during the season. 2013-14 = 12th in league 1, 2014-15 = 1st in league 1, 2015-16 = 18th in the championship, 2016-17 = 17th in the championship and this season the lowest we can finish is 11th and the highest is 6th. 

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Certainly don’t want to get embroiled in a elongated debate about it but I think you’re estimations and beliefs are incorrect

Im going from  memory and reading various articles

To ensure Inwasnt going mad a did a very quick search re Bournemouth as an example

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3069401/Bournemouth-promotion-comes-cost-Cherries-owner-Maxim-Demin-Premier-League-new-boys-announce-debt-21-5m.html

 

http://www.cityam.com/214581/how-bournemouths-promotion-push-was-funded-russian-millionaire

Based on the infrastructure of the club. Minute match day and non match day revenue. Of course they were going to make losses but they haven’t bought their way into the prem as Newcastle, Wolves have done and Villa are trying to do. Low transfer fees and low wages. A quick search as well sees since the owner took over the number of playing staff had increased, obviously the more players on the books means more wages. They weren’t going out spending £30k a week on there starting XI

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Based on the infrastructure of the club. Minute match day and non match day revenue. Of course they were going to make losses but they haven’t bought their way into the prem as Newcastle, Wolves have done and Villa are trying to do. Low transfer fees and low wages. A quick search as well sees since the owner took over the number of playing staff had increased, obviously the more players on the books means more wages. They weren’t going out spending £30k a week on there starting XI

See what you mean 

They’ve ‘overspent’ ,  thanks to rich owners,  but not ‘outspent’ some big Clubs

Cant disagree with that part

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

See what you mean 

They’ve ‘overspent’ ,  thanks to rich owners,  but not ‘outspent’ some big Clubs

Cant disagree with that part

I see what you mean as well, they have spent money, as have Brighton and Swansea to make it to the big time and if it wasn’t for wealthy business men they would be in serious trouble! 

I didn’t word my side of the argument very well having read it back 

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

I see what you mean as well, they have spent money, as have Brighton and Swansea to make it to the big time and if it wasn’t for wealthy business men they would be in serious trouble! 

I didn’t word my side of the argument very well having read it back 

No

Just that subtle difference between ‘overspend’ and ‘outspend’ And us talking about the two different things

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

33 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Based on the infrastructure of the club. Minute match day and non match day revenue. Of course they were going to make losses but they haven’t bought their way into the prem as Newcastle, Wolves have done and Villa are trying to do. Low transfer fees and low wages. A quick search as well sees since the owner took over the number of playing staff had increased, obviously the more players on the books means more wages. They weren’t going out spending £30k a week on there starting XI

One I would take issue on in terms of lumping in, in terms of buying way out beyond their means is Newcastle.

Now, they undoubtedly had a hefty wage bill but also consider...

1) Gates on average of 51k- huge advantage.

2) First year parachute payments.

3) Probably had the biggest corporate revenue in the division.

4) Made a profit of 30 million on transfers last season.

That's before even considering the likelihood that players coming in would have had lower wages than PL players from their relegation year leaving- as individuals I mean.

Just an outlier- gates of 50k or so, huge at this level- modern times that context, huge Championship club (at least first year). Just best to write off as always likely to win division in those circs.

[The Constant Rabbit]

I keep banging on about this - but it's PERSPECTIVE.

Lansdown has built a stadium that will attract buyers when he has had enough.

He has land-banked AV

Formed a sports group consisting of Football Rugby Basketball and Womens sports equivalents.

Lansdown earned himself 1.6 billion through his own hard work (and from a garage - fair play) and spent 100,000,000 over the last, what 15 yrs? - but to the average guy - that's about 50 quid in comparison out of his annual wage.

His interest on investments covers his stewardship of BCFC

He is worth 1600 x 1,000,000 pounds.

Let that sink in

Fucking 10% roi gets him 160,000,000 quid per year!!!

The land at AV when planning for housing gets a green light (which it will) covers everything.

Lansdown has just used the club as a hobby - and really, if he wanted to, he could throw as much as he liked at the club, wear any FFP penalties and not make a 1% dent in his finances.

So yeah, Lansdown has been generous with what he has done, but to him, it's change down the back of his sofa.

And more than covered if he sells the "Franchise" he has built and the AV land.

PERSPECTIVE.

We could be in the Prem right now if he really wanted us to be, but to him, it appears to be just a hobby to while away his retirement on.

And the Prem payments would cover the whole damn thing.

Would we be better off without SL - no

Could he get us up if he was really serious about it - absolutely.

He has to decide wether he wants to run a successful Premiership club, or continue using the "Franchise" as a plaything.

 

 

[BigAl&Toby]

7 hours ago, SX227 said:

I keep banging on about this - but it's PERSPECTIVE.

Lansdown has built a stadium that will attract buyers when he has had enough.

He has land-banked AV

Formed a sports group consisting of Football Rugby Basketball and Womens sports equivalents.

Lansdown earned himself 1.6 billion through his own hard work (and from a garage - fair play) and spent 100,000,000 over the last, what 15 yrs? - but to the average guy - that's about 50 quid in comparison out of his annual wage.

His interest on investments covers his stewardship of BCFC

He is worth 1600 x 1,000,000 pounds.

Let that sink in

Fucking 10% roi gets him 160,000,000 quid per year!!!

The land at AV when planning for housing gets a green light (which it will) covers everything.

Lansdown has just used the club as a hobby - and really, if he wanted to, he could throw as much as he liked at the club, wear any FFP penalties and not make a 1% dent in his finances.

So yeah, Lansdown has been generous with what he has done, but to him, it's change down the back of his sofa.

And more than covered if he sells the "Franchise" he has built and the AV land.

PERSPECTIVE.

We could be in the Prem right now if he really wanted us to be, but to him, it appears to be just a hobby to while away his retirement on.

And the Prem payments would cover the whole damn thing.

Would we be better off without SL - no

Could he get us up if he was really serious about it - absolutely.

He has to decide wether he wants to run a successful Premiership club, or continue using the "Franchise" as a plaything.

 

 

Fucking spot on. We see the same thing.

He’s entitled to do what he wants with his money but fuck me a philanthropic messiah he ain’t.

First and foremost an investor. A shrewd one at that. Whilst we sit in a shiny new stadium we’re able to watch our football team capitulate from the edge of real footballing success.

And why? Becomes some idiot who happens to share the name of where the football club has played for generations says “promotion wasn’t the aim”.

If that’s so Mr Ashton what was the aim? What did Mr Lansdown ask of you and the rest of his merry men?

The Ls have done well for themselves. Everything you say @SX227 is spot on. Franchise nicely built and land worth more than any of us realise is now owned by him - or probably Pula. 

Tax liabilities mitigated through careful investment and planning.

Whilst those who went watched another lead slip away - and with it our last chance of promotion for another season. The season when If Lansdown had wanted it for our - not his - football club he could have made it happen.

[Mr Popodopolous]

@SX227

@BigAlToby&Liam

While a lot of what you say has validity, IMO you're wrong about FFP.

No amount of wealth can prevent a transfer embargo, or restrictions on players registered to play in this division.

Let alone a points deduction, being kicked from top 2 to playoffs, playoffs to outside the playoffs or even top 2 to outside the playoffs- the last one is tantamount to stripping a team of promotion.

Those are all potential penalties.. Go and read up on it- how would Lansdown's undoubted wealth prevent this?

What do you know in this sense that we don't?

[RedRock]

We’re Bristol City. Anything above 13th in The Championship is better than par.

Get used to it. Par is what we aim for. 

Stick to the comfort zone. 

Only problem is you can’t stand still in football as demonstrated by the January Transfer debacle. Going to be a very interesting Summer. Do I trust Ashton/Johnson to replace the core of SCs team with better players? Unfortunately not - far from it given their transfer record - but I genuinely hope to be surprised.