Damned if he doesn't, damned if he does.

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

I’m not sure Walsh thought he was getting out of Everton to become a development player here , and one who can’t even make the bench at the moment

When he's come on he's not look out of place, and imo, we did well to get him.

Already looking forward to next season and the coming and goings over the summer.

It's an interesting and entertaining ride we are on...many ups and downs, I'm actually enjoying watching how we progress with this 'project' warts and all.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I wasn't there on Thursday but yesterday was chatting with a guy from our senior reds table who was there and he relayed what MA had to say. 

So.....it's second hand but no reason to think that Pete would have made it up.

Thankyou

If true - yet another ‘reason’.   ‘why we can’t / couldn’t ‘

from Ashton

He has a list of those 

Lots of good reasons to cover any recruitment failings

[Redtucks]

1 hour ago, Spoons said:

So consistently FF is picked and under performs ? Surely LJ sees this and drops him? No he picks him time after time and we are all surprised that yet again he costs us the game.

Yet again???

How many times this season has Frank Fielding cost us the game???

I would suggest that he's saved us far more points than he's lost.

 

[Curr Avon]

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That's an old chestnut and been done to death on here.

That said Ashton said at Senior Reds this week that the club much prefers to do its shopping in the summer and work ihas been underway in preparation for the upcoming window.

January is not a good time to buy or sell.

The EFL cup run hugely raised our clubs profile nationally and particularly in the SBC and other clubs realised that we were a threat and became very reluctant to deal with us - one disadvantage of the cup run along with the fact that other teams started to  line up against us differently and that was a big factor in our slump in form.

Unfortunately LJ and his assistants  couldn't come up with an effective plan b.

If LJ and his assistants can do brilliant work after 23 matches and a cup run, but can't improve the fragility of a side that slumps to 5 wins in the following 21 Championship games, what the hell is going on?

[Bris Red]

5 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

If LJ and his assistants can do brilliant work after 23 matches and a cup run, but can't improve the fragility of a side that slumps to 5 wins in the following 21 Championship games, what the hell is going on?

You have got to wonder, did the management team really know what they were doing in that good run? Was it just a a mixture of luck and good judgment? With luck being the more prominent ingredient.. it makes you wonder. For me now there is no excuse, these runs are a common theme in Johnson’s career.. some managers have never gone on a run like he has in there ENTIRE career, Lee has managed it in every season since he has been a manager. Its more than worrying IMO. I just don’t think he is good enough yet. An experienced manager at this level needed ASAP.. id love Mick McCarthy to come in right now to be brutally honest.

[Mr Popodopolous]

27 minutes ago, spudski said:

Because Walsh is a good player and is one for the future...Kent has been good at clubs before, and so has Diony...they were both no risk options.

As for not fitting in...you ask for a plan B....LJ is bringing in players to play different roles when needed.

 

The problem that though, he tried to IMO put Kent in a Plan A type wing rule, which didn't convince me.

Not suggesting I would have necessarily played it, but one possible way to utilise Kent in a Plan B may have been... (Whether it would have been worth it overall? Different debate). While we had some injuries though, why not something like...

Fielding

Wright Flint Baker Bryan

Brownhill Smith Pack

Kent Paterson

Reid

Kent and Paterson as in forwards/a pair of number 10's. Security of those 3 in central midfield, the right side narrower as Wright is a centre back by trade- but the upside is he stays back more because of that- Bryan can bomb on from the left back with some more control central midfield.

Reid of course can still act as the trigger for the press, and with that front 3 (Reid with 2 inside forwards who can also drift wide at times)- a great fluidity on paper, which can also double up as a 4-6-0 on paper.

I'm not advocating it as such, but I would suggest that would have been a better use of Kent- but more importantly, would have given the team some proper versatility and options when players out...

...Which leads me onto my other concern about LJ. He seems unwilling- or unable- to think outside the box a bit.

[Curr Avon]

We could have parked the bus, like we did against Derby at 2-1 up in September. Master tactician LJ replaces Woodrow with Diedhiou after 65 minutes and invites the Rams to attack his well organised two banks of four. Derby fall into the trap and City's grateful eight engineer two wonderful counter-attacking goals. Four one and job done. Once there WAS a way.

[Spoons]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

How do you know we squandered the January window? You know the budget and contract details and who was available, who we could afford and who we approached and who wanted to come here?

All very well in hindsight...but on a 'normal' day FF would have saved those shots. We would have been celebrating a 5-3 win maybe and saying what an entertaining game it was.

On a Normal day FF has made error after error.

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

unThe problem that though, he tried to IMO put Kent in a Plan A type wing rule, which didn't convince me.

Not suggesting I would have necessarily played it, but one possible way to utilise Kent in a Plan B may have been... (Whether it would have been worth it overall? Different debate). While we had some injuries though, why not something like...

Fielding

Wright Flint Baker Bryan

Brownhill Smith Pack

Kent Paterson

Reid

Kent and Paterson as in forwards/a pair of number 10's. Security of those 3 in central midfield, the right side narrower as Wright is a centre back by trade- but the upside is he stays back more because of that- Bryan can bomb on from the left back with some more control central midfield.

Reid of course can still act as the trigger for the press, and with that front 3 (Reid with 2 inside forwards who can also drift wide at times)- a great fluidity on paper, which can also double up as a 4-6-0 on paper.

I'm not advocating it as such, but I would suggest that would have been a better use of Kent- but more importantly, would have given the team some proper versatility and options when players out...

...Which leads me onto my other concern about LJ. He seems unwilling- or unable- to think outside the box a bit.

I don't think he does mate...it's all hindsight and conjecture. They will try things in training.

However, when you do it in the cauldron of a football match, with a team trying to stop you and doing their own thing, then it doesn't always work out.

I'm seriously worried for this club with the dissatisfaction from some fans, and the unrealistic expectations.

Look at where we are in the league table, still in with a shout of the play offs, having played some good football and some bad. So many other teams below us, and others like Derby and Leeds who should be so much better.

We haven't had it so bad this season...all this reaction is down to disappointment with recent form and results.

The fact we got ourselves into that position to start with shows we can do it.

We've learnt...and imo, after speaking to physio's at the club, I don't think we can play the high pressing, high energy game over a whole season for it to be successful.

I think the staff know that, and it's the reason we have tried to mix it a little.

It's a learning curve...I just don't see why fans can't enjoy the ride, as nothing is ever perfect.

Just enjoy it...

[Spoons]

25 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

Yet again???

How many times this season has Frank Fielding cost us the game???

I would suggest that he's saved us far more points than he's lost.

 

Wolves and Preston both rushing out the goal like a prized idiot.

1st goal against Barnsley. Today against hull two goals.

That's off the top of my head.

What's more important is the games he made massive errors in ( wolves and hull) have impacted our season in a massive way.

He's a complete liability.

[Redtucks]

9 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Wolves and Preston both rushing out the goal like a prized idiot.

1st goal against Barnsley. Today against hull two goals.

That's off the top of my head.

What's more important is the games he made massive errors in ( wolves and hull) have impacted our season in a massive way.

He's a complete liability.

Wolves I would agree.

Preston, do you know whether he called for it? General opinion at the time was that it was Magnussons fault for a piss-poor clearance that gifted it to the scorer.

Barnsley, beaten and arguably fouled by a 6'6" centre forward virtually on the goal line in the 7th minute. Hardly cost us the game!

 

[Spoons]

1 minute ago, Redtucks said:

Wolves I would agree.

Preston, do you know whether he called for it? General opinion at the time was that it was Magnussons fault for a piss-poor clearance that gifted it to the scorer.

Barnsley, beaten and arguably fouled by a 6'6" centre forward virtually on the goal line in the 7th minute. Hardly cost us the game!

 

Him being picked causes chaos. He has no command of his box and clearly doesn't communicate with his defence.

I noticed you didn't mention about yesterday's game?

Can't believe you are backing him or LJ for picking him.

Absolute priority is a goalkeeper next season.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Spoons said:

Him being picked causes chaos. He has no command of his box and clearly doesn't communicate with his defence.

I noticed you didn't mention about yesterday's game?

Can't believe you are backing him or LJ for picking him.

Absolute priority is a goalkeeper next season.

Any realistic suggestions ??    better than FF and ‘within our budget’

[Bobfish]

52 minutes ago, bris red said:

You have got to wonder, did the management team really know what they were doing in that good run? Was it just a a mixture of luck and good judgment? With luck being the more prominent ingredient.. it makes you wonder. For me now there is no excuse, these runs are a common theme in Johnson’s career.. some managers have never gone on a run like he has in there ENTIRE career, Lee has managed it in every season since he has been a manager. Its more than worrying IMO. I just don’t think he is good enough yet. An experienced manager at this level needed ASAP.. id love Mick McCarthy to come in right now to be brutally honest.

This. What worries me about LJ is that he clearly doesn’t learn, whether from his mistakes or successes. Take the car crash of last season, what turned our form around at the end? – (I did a long “dear lj” topic on this near Christmas when the descent started, so won’t go into too much detail here) - Doubling up on the flanks with defensive cover, having the midfield help shield our full backs to stop crosses coming in that punished us constantly last season, partly due to fielding’s poor command of his box, making a “mentally weak” team crumble. Yet what does LJ do? Play paterson who has no graft and no defensive ability what-so-ever, and has been poor for four months. Pisano, who I wondered if he is fully fit, struggled and was poor defensively, but did LJ shore up the gap with wright? Another who develops an “injury” when out of form, yet is fit enough to be on the bench. Or take off a limping O’dowda early and put in brownhill then to provide protection? He talks of individual errors, but those errors are often down to the manager’s tactical flaws. We have witnessed again and again and again that JB isn’t that good defensively as a LB without cover, for a start he is a midfielder who moved to a wing back, not a defender, but he does have enough defensive ability when supported – not supporting him tactically when playing at LB is then LJ’s fault. In the first half of this season, patterson often played more in the middle with reid and our flanks were doubled up and strong – odowa and bryan, brownhill and pisano, bryan and mags, etc, - provided resilience and graft - yet patterson being moved out wide then removes this stability. I am not making Patterson or JB scapegoats – each player has strengths and weakness – patterson is a flair type player, who is very slight and has no graft – it is LJ’s fault if he shoehorns a current favourite into a team, disrupting its strengths, showing a lack of comprehending what worked before. This same scenario goes for Kent. If he must play a flair player on the wing, then play a more defensively minded player behind him – Kelly, or even mags.

The fact we have two defenders in our coaching staff, yet can’t do the most basic of defensive duties, makes me worry. Corners anyone?

[Mr Popodopolous]

36 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't think he does mate...it's all hindsight and conjecture. They will try things in training.

However, when you do it in the cauldron of a football match, with a team trying to stop you and doing their own thing, then it doesn't always work out.

I'm seriously worried for this club with the dissatisfaction from some fans, and the unrealistic expectations.

Look at where we are in the league table, still in with a shout of the play offs, having played some good football and some bad. So many other teams below us, and others like Derby and Leeds who should be so much better.

We haven't had it so bad this season...all this reaction is down to disappointment with recent form and results.

The fact we got ourselves into that position to start with shows we can do it.

We've learnt...and imo, after speaking to physio's at the club, I don't think we can play the high pressing, high energy game over a whole season for it to be successful.

I think the staff know that, and it's the reason we have tried to mix it a little.

It's a learning curve...I just don't see why fans can't enjoy the ride, as nothing is ever perfect.

Just enjoy it...

I tend to agree that the best laid plans etc, 2 sides in a game... Football like chess, tactically matching up and counteracting.

Perhaps we need to keep the high press but mix it with more ball retention at a slower pace- mixing the 2. 

'Resting in possession' or however the exact phrase goes- Fulham a very good footballing side, very good too since Christmas in results, don't seem to have had injuries like us. Maybe we need to tweak how we press a bit and our tempo, knock it down a notch to avoid said injuries.

I don't see that we have, or can gain, sufficient midfield control with a 2 in there. (Actually, I don't see it as that viable a setup generally).

Agree that varied sides have underperformed (actually think Derby aren't as good as the hype suggests, bit overrated)- but the position we were in, we should have made the playoffs. Lot of avoidable points dropped since Christmas.

6 or 7/10 the season for me IMO.

[Spoons]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Any realistic suggestions ??    better than FF and ‘within our budget’

Good question. Think we missed the boat with Daniel Bentley from Southend who Brentford signed. He's in our budget and plays the ball well with his feet.

I like Walton at Wigan and also like and watched pymm at Exeter a few times this season.

Personally would prefer a experienced keeper. 

 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, RedNight said:

I don't want this turning into a spat about LJ.

But he is criticised when he doesn't shut up shop and portect a lead.

And today fans are going for his throat for doing exactly that.

People saying Johnson doesn't learn from his mistakes. Well he obviously learnt from the Sunderland game. Because today at 4-2 he looked to protect a lead, which he didn't against Sunderland (which fans were outraged by).

Can everyone just take step back from there Johnson agenda (wether you love him or hate him), and realise that we lost that game because of individual errors. 

I find it absolutely mental that once again the players are going some what under the radar after some dreadful mistakes today. 

Just a side note, when we changed formation, I thought we played some scintillating football and some of the best I've seen this year. But we were ridiculously poor at the back today. 

Anyway, this isn't a for or against Johnson thread. So please don't make it one 

I heard his BBCRB interview and if that was his tactical approach to preserving a 4-2 lead, then he 1) got it wrong or 2) players failed to execute.

He said that he went to a 5 across the midfield.

My View was that Brownhill played too far forward.  If that was the instruction, then why move Reid...our trigger-man?  Brownhill played like Reid....without the pressing!

Why move Reid to LM?

Ok, O’Dowda tired....correct player to replace....no problems there.  Thought he looked leggy all game, and found it hard against physical, athletic RBs in Aina and Tomori.  I could see why he might want to put the energetic Reid there, but he failed to realise / remember what Reid does centrally (he forgot v Millwall at home that Pack screened Morison when subbing him and we conceded chances late on).  So what might he have done?  Brought Brownhill on and swapped Paterson over to LM?  Brought Eliasson on?  He doesn’t seem to trust Niklas, yet he’s always put effort in when on the pitch.  Bring Kelly on?  Play him LB and move JB forward.  Or my preference, just bring Kelly on at LM.  He did that at home to Reading....where in fact Lloyd scored the second on the break.

He over-bloody-complicated it, changed what had been a decent attacking performance.

Diedhiou and Reid played the best partnership game I’ve seen in weeks yesterday.  Diedhiou wasn’t tired on 66 minutes, but he was once he lost his trigger-pressing-buddy.

Would really be interested to know what thought process LJ went through fit that substitution.

Having said that we should not have conceded 5 yesterday.  Other issues beyond the tactics.

@Bobfish post #130 got it’s customary like 

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Spoons said:

You don't concede 5 goals in a game and then blame it all on individual errors?

He insists on picking a keeper who can't kick or command a box then gifts hull two goals, that's not individual errors it's poor management.

Pisano looked knackered after 60 minutes should have been taken off then purely down to lack of energy finds himself out of position for their 5th goal.

The individual errors were completely avoidable.

I think the point of the post was to say he did attempt to see the game out. Sure you can criticise things he didn’t do but that is all hindsight imo. Yesterday, the individual errors outweighed the manager’s decisions. 

There are just a couple games left. Perhaps it is already clear Steele won’t be here next season while FF will be. I know we still had an outside chance at playoffs but no one expected it. So what would be the benefit of playing Steele? Lower FF confidence even lower than it already is? Definitely need a new keeper but I’d probably play FF until the new keeper is signed. 

Pisano was as bad as I have seen. Clearly not right after the injury. I would have brought Wright on at 4-2. That doesn’t excuse Pisano for taking himself out of the equation for their 5th. Let it go over your head and contain. Too experienced for that. Next season need a new RB. I like Vyner there so wouldn’t mind playing him there for the majority but an actual RB with experience(in England) would do us wonders. 

We were still a threat at 4-2. We had a few chances after Brownhill got on the pitch. This with Smith and Pack on the pitch. You’d assume the fresh legs of Brownhill with those two could handle a 2 goal lead with 20 min left. Also see criticism of Reid going left. He has the work rate for it and Fam was on a brace looking for more. Again with hindsight maybe you bring Kelly  on and push Bryan forward or take Fam off for Eliasson(which would have come with risks too). 

So yea like I said, think mistakes outweighed LJ’s decisions yesterday. Not saying opinions of LJ and his inability to change games aren’t valid. They definitely are. Just think yesterday he actually made a sensible decision or two and they still blew up in his face. That also comes down to where we are as a club. Hull can bring on a Uruguay and Polish international off the bench as a relegation threatened team to change a game. We can bring on Matty Taylor, Brownhill or Kelly. Reccruitment a whole other argument though. 

[Leveller]

13 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Good question. Think we missed the boat with Daniel Bentley from Southend who Brentford signed. He's in our budget and plays the ball well with his feet.

I like Walton at Wigan and also like and watched pymm at Exeter a few times this season.

Personally would prefer a experienced keeper. 

 

But why would Bentley have chosen us over Brentford - likely to have been influenced by their location and their better football and standing prior to this season. They may arguably be a smaller club, but West London has a lot of pull for most players.

[Major Isewater]

At times some of our play was neat, neat , neat .

With a new Rose , Danny , in town next season we could smash it up .

 

[Spoons]

1 minute ago, Leveller said:

But why would Bentley have chosen us over Brentford - likely to have been influenced by their location and their better football and standing prior to this season. They may arguably be a smaller club, but West London has a lot of pull for most players.

We should be able to compete financially with Brentford. 

Would have thought we could have offered him more money, better training facilities and stadium and the grand plan of premier league football. 

But agree west London is closer to home for him but money talks.

[Leveller]

4 minutes ago, Spoons said:

We should be able to compete financially with Brentford. 

Would have thought we could have offered him more money, better training facilities and stadium and the grand plan of premier league football. 

But agree west London is closer to home for him but money talks.

I’m sure we can compete financially with Brentford, but 12 months ago we wouldn’t otherwise have been a great attraction. Who knows whether we were after him (it seems likely) or why he chose Brentford? But our fans and even management often expect us to sign players who have looked at us and thought “no thanks”. Eg Andre Gray and Dwight Gayle.

[spudski]

25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I tend to agree that the best laid plans etc, 2 sides in a game... Football like chess, tactically matching up and counteracting.

Perhaps we need to keep the high press but mix it with more ball retention at a slower pace- mixing the 2. 

'Resting in possession' or however the exact phrase goes- Fulham a very good footballing side, very good too since Christmas in results, don't seem to have had injuries like us. Maybe we need to tweak how we press a bit and our tempo, knock it down a notch to avoid said injuries.

I don't see that we have, or can gain, sufficient midfield control with a 2 in there. (Actually, I don't see it as that viable a setup generally).

Agree that varied sides have underperformed (actually think Derby aren't as good as the hype suggests, bit overrated)- but the position we were in, we should have made the playoffs. Lot of avoidable points dropped since Christmas.

6 or 7/10 the season for me IMO.

I actually thought we played some superb football yesterday offensively, and at times defensively.

I also thought we had mixed it up a little. We played a pressing game occasionally when there were certain triggers in certain parts of the field.

At other times we played with Famara's strengths, crosses into the box, and also played narrow at times, then switched to playing expansive.

The sun was scorching yesterday, so I was impressed with the intensity of some. Odowda especially. He looked sharp and like most of our players were at the beginning of the season. Compare that to Reid, although good, has cut down on his intensity.

If we can do that every week and cut down on the individual errors and better focus, then it could work.

Yesterday, it seemed our back four and keeper completely switched off mentally when defending. I also though Pato was a liability when on defensive duties...he just looks so weak and lethargic to me. I really do think he's got one of those virus's that stays with you a long time and weakens the body...just my opinion, but he aint right.

[Redtucks]

48 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Him being picked causes chaos. He has no command of his box and clearly doesn't communicate with his defence.

I noticed you didn't mention about yesterday's game?

Can't believe you are backing him or LJ for picking him.

Absolute priority is a goalkeeper next season.

I noticed that you haven't mentioned any of the games where his saves have gained us points.

[Roger Red Hat]

3 hours ago, RedNight said:

I don't want this turning into a spat about LJ.

But he is criticised when he doesn't shut up shop and portect a lead.

And today fans are going for his throat for doing exactly that.

People saying Johnson doesn't learn from his mistakes. Well he obviously learnt from the Sunderland game. Because today at 4-2 he looked to protect a lead, which he didn't against Sunderland (which fans were outraged by).

Can everyone just take step back from there Johnson agenda (wether you love him or hate him), and realise that we lost that game because of individual errors. 

I find it absolutely mental that once again the players are going some what under the radar after some dreadful mistakes today. 

Just a side note, when we changed formation, I thought we played some scintillating football and some of the best I've seen this year. But we were ridiculously poor at the back today. 

Anyway, this isn't a for or against Johnson thread. So please don't make it one 

I'm not an LJ out bloke, but yesterday, the way he tried 'to shut up shop' was ridiculous.

[Spoons]

4 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

I noticed that you haven't mentioned any of the games where his saves have gained us points.

Because IMO he's cost us alot more than he has saved us. And in critical games and points in the season.

Not sure how/why you or more importantly LJ can't see this? 

[RedNight]

3 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Johnson has failed to manage a lead whether he continues to go for it or defend it... That is why he is, currently, the damned, period.

Does that become a Johnson issue or a player issue? 

You can honestly look at yesterday's game (with the mistakes in mind) and blame Johnson? 

[RedNight]

3 hours ago, Spoons said:

You don't concede 5 goals in a game and then blame it all on individual errors?

He insists on picking a keeper who can't kick or command a box then gifts hull two goals, that's not individual errors it's poor management.

Pisano looked knackered after 60 minutes should have been taken off then purely down to lack of energy finds himself out of position for their 5th goal.

The individual errors were completely avoidable.

Well that's the most anti Johnson way of looking at things. Laughable. 

[Redsi2]

FF is a good shot stopper and has made some really world class saves this season but for me he doesn't give his back 4 confidence. His kicking is awful and I have noticed he is short kicking it to flint far more often for him to kick it long. For me every pass back to him makes everyone nervous. Even if no opposition within yards of him he makes everything look difficult. A good goalie makes everything look easy.

[Spoons]

9 minutes ago, RedNight said:

Well that's the most anti Johnson way of looking at things. Laughable. 

I'm not anti LJ. I don't want him sacked.

But I do want him to be able to change something so obviously wrong with our team..FF!