Dickie Rookes Peak Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 I just reminded myself that it took AD nine years to get City into the first division. Thinking back progress was slow and it took time to move up the table. Money was scarce and he had to find and develop young players. He really was a young and inexperienced manager (33 and Jimmy Hills assistant). However he was for that time very forward thinking and progressive in his approach. Our current situation reminds me of then in many ways. I think we will progress quicker this time round. Our manager is far more experienced, more funds are available and facilities are better. AD didn’t just rock up and create a very good team. Lots of supporters wanted him sacked and a new more experienced man brought in. I think for the first time in a very long time the club is moving in the right direction. Sitting in the stands on Saturday I couldn’t believe my eyes that we didn’t win. This is a joy I’ve experienced many times in the forty years of following the city. However I am very confident we will be promoted within the next two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 10 minutes ago, Dickie Rookes Peak said: I just reminded myself that it took AD nine years to get City into the first division. Thinking back progress was slow and it took time to move up the table. Money was scarce and he had to find and develop young players. He really was a young and inexperienced manager (33 and Jimmy Hills assistant). However he was for that time very forward thinking and progressive in his approach. Our current situation reminds me of then in many ways. I think we will progress quicker this time round. Our manager is far more experienced, more funds are available and facilities are better. AD didn’t just rock up and create a very good team. Lots of supporters wanted him sacked and a new more experienced man brought in. I think for the first time in a very long time the club is moving in the right direction. Sitting in the stands on Saturday I couldn’t believe my eyes that we didn’t win. This is a joy I’ve experienced many times in the forty years of following the city. However I am very confident we will be promoted within the next two years. I love the optimism however football has moved incredibly in the last 44 years or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, Andy082005 said: I love the optimism however football has moved incredibly in the last 44 years or so Yep. And not for the better in some cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted April 24, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 25 minutes ago, Dickie Rookes Peak said: However I am very confident we will be promoted within the next two years. Yes we are progressing, but I often wonder if we are progressing quickly enough and that is why other "smaller" teams are overtaking us on the way ? My fear is that we are always going to have this massive dip in form every season that for whatever reason we seem unable to correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, phantom said: Yes we are progressing, but I often wonder if we are progressing quickly enough and that is why other "smaller" teams are overtaking us on the way ? My fear is that we are always going to have this massive dip in form every season that for whatever reason we seem unable to correct We are not progressing on the pitch. And that's where it matters. We can build the stadium and everything that comes with it...but on the pitch, we look no different now on the pitch then we did this time 12 months ago It's going to be another pre-season of upheaval. Another pre-season where our head coach 'builds again'...bringing in more players he "trusts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 40 minutes ago, Dickie Rookes Peak said: I just reminded myself that it took AD nine years to get City into the first division. Thinking back progress was slow and it took time to move up the table. Money was scarce and he had to find and develop young players. He really was a young and inexperienced manager (33 and Jimmy Hills assistant). However he was for that time very forward thinking and progressive in his approach. Our current situation reminds me of then in many ways. I think we will progress quicker this time round. Our manager is far more experienced, more funds are available and facilities are better. AD didn’t just rock up and create a very good team. Lots of supporters wanted him sacked and a new more experienced man brought in. I think for the first time in a very long time the club is moving in the right direction. Sitting in the stands on Saturday I couldn’t believe my eyes that we didn’t win. This is a joy I’ve experienced many times in the forty years of following the city. However I am very confident we will be promoted within the next two years. Thank you Mr Lansdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 I agree with many of the points. But there is a massive difference now with Parachutes payments. It looks like next year another 3 'new teams' to go with all the others still receiving these payments (except Sunderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Andy082005 said: We are not progressing on the pitch. And that's where it matters. We can build the stadium and everything that comes with it...but on the pitch, we look no different now on the pitch then we did this time 12 months ago It's going to be another pre-season of upheaval. Another pre-season where our head coach 'builds again'...bringing in more players he "trusts" Taking the results since the new year aside I don't think anyone can disagree that there hasn't been progress made on the pitch based on the fact we are in a promotion battle as opposed to a relegation battle compared with the previous 2 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Just now, Show Me The Money! said: Taking the results since the new year aside I don't think anyone can disagree that there hasn't been progress made on the pitch based on the fact we are in a promotion battle as opposed to a relegation battle compared with the previous 2 seasons If we are talking solely league position that we have earnt over the course of the season...yes your right I'm looking at the hear and now though. Our all round performances now, our style, our mentality etc...we don't look any different then this time last year The exceptional first half of the season has been wiped out by an equally as awful second half of the season You need to ask yourself what Bristol City do you think will come out at the start of next season? I know where my money is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, Dickie Rookes Peak said: I just reminded myself that it took AD nine years to get City into the first division. Thinking back progress was slow and it took time to move up the table. Money was scarce and he had to find and develop young players. He really was a young and inexperienced manager (33 and Jimmy Hills assistant). However he was for that time very forward thinking and progressive in his approach. Our current situation reminds me of then in many ways. I think we will progress quicker this time round. Our manager is far more experienced, more funds are available and facilities are better. AD didn’t just rock up and create a very good team. Lots of supporters wanted him sacked and a new more experienced man brought in. I think for the first time in a very long time the club is moving in the right direction. Sitting in the stands on Saturday I couldn’t believe my eyes that we didn’t win. This is a joy I’ve experienced many times in the forty years of following the city. However I am very confident we will be promoted within the next two years. I wish I shared your confidence. I believe our strength is the core of players who won the double and who know each other and each other's games perfectly. These are the very same players who I believe will move on to better things in the Summer. We will bring in a new team , who knows perhaps better ? , but they will need time to gel. I hope we get off to a flyer next season because will be tough . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullmoan Tone Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 36 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said: Taking the results since the new year aside I don't think anyone can disagree that there hasn't been progress made on the pitch based on the fact we are in a promotion battle as opposed to a relegation battle compared with the previous 2 seasons So ignoring that last 4 months in other words. Why not say putting the losses aside I don't think anyone can disagree we have won some games. You can't ignore half the season - progress would have been showing continuous improvement not just a good spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Snufflelufagus said: I agree with many of the points. But there is a massive difference now with Parachutes payments. It looks like next year another 3 'new teams' to go with all the others still receiving these payments (except Sunderland) West Brom and probably Stoke and Southampton down Blackburn and Wigan coming up Championship will be even more brutal for me. Take two from Villa, Fulham, Cardiff and Boro as well Big summer coming up (copyright everyone on OTIB every May since the internet was born) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 AD had John Sillett as his chief coach. It may have been him that made the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 We I’ve gone from 2nd at Christmas and 20 points in front of Millwall to being 10th with form of a team 18th in the League with the same players and with the likelihood that we will lose a few of those players in the summer and replace with cheap youngsters or wild foreign punts. I’d say we are moving backwards now having peaked in December 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 8 hours ago, Dickie Rookes Peak said: I just reminded myself that it took AD nine years to get City into the first division. Thinking back progress was slow and it took time to move up the table. Money was scarce and he had to find and develop young players. He really was a young and inexperienced manager (33 and Jimmy Hills assistant). However he was for that time very forward thinking and progressive in his approach. Our current situation reminds me of then in many ways. I think we will progress quicker this time round. Our manager is far more experienced, more funds are available and facilities are better. AD didn’t just rock up and create a very good team. Lots of supporters wanted him sacked and a new more experienced man brought in. I think for the first time in a very long time the club is moving in the right direction. Sitting in the stands on Saturday I couldn’t believe my eyes that we didn’t win. This is a joy I’ve experienced many times in the forty years of following the city. However I am very confident we will be promoted within the next two years. We’ve had 9 seasons in the top tier since 1894....I’d say we’ve been very patient.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 The difference between now and then was that AD moulded a team together with young signings, Gow, Ritchie, Whitehead, Gillies, etc etc and as supporters we watched this build. We are already talking on this forum about the players we will lose in the summer and that LJ will have to 'build' again. That was not the way of Alan Dicks. He retained his key players and built around them. Yes, its different nowadays as players have less loyalty and live a millionaires lifestyle so it is slightly different. However, we won promotion in 1975/6 on that fantastic night against Portsmouth and went on to LOSE our last match at home v Notts County. Its a Bristol City thing. Get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 12 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said: We I’ve gone from 2nd at Christmas and 20 points in front of Millwall to being 10th with form of a team 18th in the League with the same players and with the likelihood that we will lose a few of those players in the summer and replace with cheap youngsters or wild foreign punts. I’d say we are moving backwards now having peaked in December 2017. Swear filter is back on then. COYR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, CyderInACan said: Swear filter is back on then. COYR. now now Reg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said: However, we won promotion in 1975/6 on that fantastic night against Portsmouth and went on to LOSE our last match at home v Notts County. Its a Bristol City thing. Get used to it. That might have had something to do with the fact the players hadn't stopped partying since the Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 2 hours ago, oldstandrobin said: The difference between now and then was that AD moulded a team together with young signings, Gow, Ritchie, Whitehead, Gillies, etc etc and as supporters we watched this build. We are already talking on this forum about the players we will lose in the summer and that LJ will have to 'build' again. That was not the way of Alan Dicks. He retained his key players and built around them. Yes, its different nowadays as players have less loyalty and live a millionaires lifestyle so it is slightly different. However, we won promotion in 1975/6 on that fantastic night against Portsmouth and went on to LOSE our last match at home v Notts County. Its a Bristol City thing. Get used to it. We lost to Notts County because the team or ‘family’ as that team felt at the time went on a massive bender in Whitchurch that lasted about 3 days. To say they were the worst for wear by the time Notts County turned up for a dead rubber fixture is an understatement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 2 hours ago, oldstandrobin said: The difference between now and then was that AD moulded a team together with young signings, Gow, Ritchie, Whitehead, Gillies, etc etc and as supporters we watched this build. We are already talking on this forum about the players we will lose in the summer and that LJ will have to 'build' again. That was not the way of Alan Dicks. He retained his key players and built around them. Yes, its different nowadays as players have less loyalty and live a millionaires lifestyle so it is slightly different. However, we won promotion in 1975/6 on that fantastic night against Portsmouth and went on to LOSE our last match at home v Notts County. Its a Bristol City thing. Get used to it. Players didn't have much of a say in whether they stayed or got sold in those days . The club held all the power the balance has completely turned nowadays. It is very difficult to build slowly and results are demanded today . All our building for the future claims are smoke and mirrors I'm afraid. The idea is to improve players and sell for a profit before buying more of the same . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said: We lost to Notts County because the team or ‘family’ as that team felt at the time went on a massive bender in Whitchurch that lasted about 3 days. To say they were the worst for wear by the time Notts County turned up for a dead rubber fixture is an understatement! Ah , the bright lights of Whitchurch , the Sin city of the South West . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Ah , the bright lights of Whitchurch , the Sin city of the South West . And the Concorde at Stockwood.....ahhh those hazy days..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Cheesleysmate said: And the Concorde at Stockwood.....ahhh those hazy days..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 22 hours ago, Dickie Rookes Peak said: I just reminded myself that it took AD nine years to get City into the first division. Thinking back progress was slow and it took time to move up the table. Money was scarce and he had to find and develop young players. He really was a young and inexperienced manager (33 and Jimmy Hills assistant). However he was for that time very forward thinking and progressive in his approach. Our current situation reminds me of then in many ways. I think we will progress quicker this time round. Our manager is far more experienced, more funds are available and facilities are better. AD didn’t just rock up and create a very good team. Lots of supporters wanted him sacked and a new more experienced man brought in. I think for the first time in a very long time the club is moving in the right direction. Sitting in the stands on Saturday I couldn’t believe my eyes that we didn’t win. This is a joy I’ve experienced many times in the forty years of following the city. However I am very confident we will be promoted within the next two years. I suspect LJ has made at least twice as many signings in 2 years as AD did in those 9 seasons. Not many of Dicks' signings could be classed as failures or one's for the future either. There was no money to waste, and young players were persevered with and given the opportunity to become regulars at a young age, i.e. Merrick and Gow at 17, and were battle hardened Div. 2 (Championship) players by 21. There was the occasional pinpointed signing to replace a departing player, and if City couldn't afford one Dicks promoted a reserve, i.e. Spiring for Garland. Cheesley, for instance, looked an ungainly flop when he made his debut but he wasn't in and out of the team, Dicks had faith in him to come good. Critically he gave both young and new players a run to establish themselves, and the team was picked consistently - 5 players played in every one of the 42 league games when we went up iirc., and several others only missed a few. They were a team of mates who'd been through several seasons of struggle, an epic cup win at Leeds, a promotion near miss, gradually evolving until finally everything clicked with the emergence of Collier and the ugly duckling Cheesley being transformed into a colossus alongside Tom Ritchie. Dicks was a consistent manager who built his team assiduously and the team grew together with a fantastic spirit. LJ chops and changes constantly and expects to be able to renew half the team every season. Managerial stability may be a good thing provided you get the right one -Dicks and LJ are chalk and cheese though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 38 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: I suspect LJ has made at least twice as many signings in 2 years as AD did in those 9 seasons. Not many of Dicks' signings could be classed as failures or one's for the future either. There was no money to waste, and young players were persevered with and given the opportunity to become regulars at a young age, i.e. Merrick and Gow at 17, and were battle hardened Div. 2 (Championship) players by 21. There was the occasional pinpointed signing to replace a departing player, and if City couldn't afford one Dicks promoted a reserve, i.e. Spiring for Garland. Cheesley, for instance, looked an ungainly flop when he made his debut but he wasn't in and out of the team, Dicks had faith in him to come good. Critically he gave both young and new players a run to establish themselves, and the team was picked consistently - 5 players played in every one of the 42 league games when we went up iirc., and several others only missed a few. They were a team of mates who'd been through several seasons of struggle, an epic cup win at Leeds, a promotion near miss, gradually evolving until finally everything clicked with the emergence of Collier and the ugly duckling Cheesley being transformed into a colossus alongside Tom Ritchie. Dicks was a consistent manager who built his team assiduously and the team grew together with a fantastic spirit. LJ chops and changes constantly and expects to be able to renew half the team every season. Managerial stability may be a good thing provided you get the right one -Dicks and LJ are chalk and cheese though. I don't think that is entirely fair, the buying and selling of players was very different and AD was almost exclusively tasked with bringing through our own youngsters. The turnover there might not be so obvious as when you buy players, but as someone who was a regular watcher of the reserves and youth team in those days, there were a lot of faces brought in and then discarded over the years. We also lost of lads who should have broken through, but it was very much "dead mans shoes" because of AD's loyalty to his players and the long term contract stuff. In those days there was only one sub and players moved on out of frustration more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bianconeri Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 I said a while ago that I think this season is a lot like 74/75. The team was, at times, brilliant and at others pretty poor. AD made very few changes for 75/76 keeping the nucleus of the team together but that extra season’s experience made all the difference. In 74/75 we were in with a shout almost to the end of the season, just like this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: I don't think that is entirely fair, the buying and selling of players was very different and AD was almost exclusively tasked with bringing through our own youngsters. The turnover there might not be so obvious as when you buy players, but as someone who was a regular watcher of the reserves and youth team in those days, there were a lot of faces brought in and then discarded over the years. We also lost of lads who should have broken through, but it was very much "dead mans shoes" because of AD's loyalty to his players and the long term contract stuff. In those days there was only one sub and players moved on out of frustration more than anything. I can't think of many. Players like Crowley, Griffin and Broomfield were reserves who played a few games but weren't good enough. Later, players like Bain and McNeill were thought of as promising but were never going to displace the likes of Gow and Tainton. Jock Rae brought young players over from Scotland as youths, .i.e Gow and the Ritchie brothers, and scouted the likes of Sweeney and Gillies from Morton. We must have had a good Northern scout too - perhaps that was also Rae - with Mann and Shaw arriving from Leeds for nothing. Those that did break through - Ritchie, Gow, Merrick, Cashley, (Bond,) Rodgers, Collier. Whitehead, etc. turned out to be good enough, in all cases, for the top league, any others simply weren't even up to regular 2nd tier football, or departed for other reasons (homesickness in McGhee's case) Who were all these lads who 'should' have broken through, but were thwarted by AD's loyalty? What did they go on to achieve in the game after they were released? Who were all the faces brought in and discarded? Our successful signings ratio in that period was extremely high as far as I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: I can't think of many. Players like Crowley, Griffin and Broomfield were reserves who played a few games but weren't good enough. Later, players like Bain and McNeill were thought of as promising but were never going to displace the likes of Gow and Tainton. Jock Rae brought young players over from Scotland as youths, .i.e Gow and the Ritchie brothers, and scouted the likes of Sweeney and Gillies from Morton. We must have had a good Northern scout too - perhaps that was also Rae - with Mann and Shaw arriving from Leeds for nothing. Those that did break through - Ritchie, Gow, Merrick, Cashley, (Bond,) Rodgers, Collier. Whitehead, etc. turned out to be good enough, in all cases, for the top league, any others simply weren't even up to regular 2nd tier football, or departed for other reasons (homesickness in McGhee's case) Who were all these lads who 'should' have broken through, but were thwarted by AD's loyalty? What did they go on to achieve in the game after they were released? Who were all the faces brought in and discarded? Our successful signings ratio in that period was extremely high as far as I can remember. I remember all those names too, John Bain was one of my favourite players and I was so pleased when it looked like he was going to break through, AD always said that the biggest mistake he made was letting him go to the States (where he was made player of the year in a league of big name aging stars) because he fell in love with the lifestyle. There were others though, and a couple that went on to do something in the league, Colin Lee springs to mind. But as I said the fact that you and I can only remember a few names out of what have must have been hundreds of kids suggests that there was a lot of "hit and hope" going on there. When AD did spend real money, he bought Tony Fitzpatrick, I can't say I was a fan of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Ah , the bright lights of Whitchurch , the Sin city of the South West . Baccy Jar > Shield & Dagger > Black Lion > Yeoman > Cartwheel > Fighting Cocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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