Patience required (like AD’s model)

[CyderInACan]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

I remember all those names too, John Bain was one of my favourite players and I was so pleased when it looked like he was going to break through, AD always said that the biggest mistake he made was letting him go to the States (where he was made player of the year in a league of big name aging stars) because he fell in love with the lifestyle. There were others though,  and a couple that went on to do something in the league, Colin Lee springs to mind. But as I said the fact that you and I can only remember a few names out of what have must have been hundreds of kids suggests that there was a lot of "hit and hope" going on there. When AD did spend real money, he bought Tony Fitzpatrick, I can't say I was a fan of his.

Whereas then we just released a load, this time round we loan them to Fylde, Bath, Plymouth etc to get their experience. Before we then decide to release them!

[Curr Avon]

23 minutes ago, Bianconeri said:

I said a while ago that I think this season is a lot like 74/75. The team was, at times, brilliant and at others pretty poor. AD made very few changes for 75/76 keeping the nucleus of the team together but that extra season’s experience made all the difference. In 74/75 we were in with a shout almost to the end of the season, just like this year. 

The major change for 75/76 was the forward partnership of Cheesley and Ritchie, following the pairing of Fear and Gillies the previous campaign. Big Cheese had a love hate relationship with Alan Dicks and wasn't a regular starter until the promotion campaign. The major failing in 74/75 was our goals return. City had a sturdy defence, but the attack was less than prolific. Cheese and Tom R changed all that.

[Gert Mare]

1 minute ago, Curr Avon said:

The major change for 75/76 was the forward partnership of Cheesley and Ritchie, following the pairing of Fear and Gillies the previous campaign. Big Cheese had a love hate relationship with Alan Dicks and wasn't a regular starter until the promotion campaign. The major failing in 74/75 was our goals return. City had a sturdy defence, but the attack was less than prolific. Cheese and Tom R changed all that.

Tom never saw himself as a striker. He was happy in midfield. The change was an enforced one (a bit like moving Bobby Reid) but when Tom went up top it clicked not just for Tom, but for Cheese as well as they just knew where each other was going to be and what they were going to do. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

7 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I remember all those names too, John Bain was one of my favourite players and I was so pleased when it looked like he was going to break through, AD always said that the biggest mistake he made was letting him go to the States (where he was made player of the year in a league of big name aging stars) because he fell in love with the lifestyle. There were others though,  and a couple that went on to do something in the league, Colin Lee springs to mind. But as I said the fact that you and I can only remember a few names out of what have must have been hundreds of kids suggests that there was a lot of "hit and hope" going on there. When AD did spend real money, he bought Tony Fitzpatrick, I can't say I was a fan of his.

I don't think there were many at all who would have made it. Colin Lee was signed by then 2nd division Spurs after a mediocre season at Torquay and was a 1 goal in 6 merchant (unless playing against Rovers) over his career.

Bain, we don't know how well he might have done because, as you say, he gave up trying to forge a career at the top in this country. The determined attitude shown by the likes of Merrick, Gow and Ritchie was paramount to their advancement, and perhaps Bain didn't share it?

Of course we released many young players, that's par for the course for all clubs. The standard to break through at City at the time was very high, but I don't think you've pinpointed any real mistakes.

The one's who did break through, listed in the previous post, were all given their chance early, persevered with, and became top class footballers.

[Port Said Red]

12 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Whereas then we just released a load, this time round we loan them to Fylde, Bath, Plymouth etc to get their experience. Before we then decide to release them!

Again as @spudski and others have pointed out, the flaw  in the Academy system (not the clubs fault) is that the kids these days don't play against men. I remember back in the Combination days, seeing players like Bobby Moore. Pop Robson, Ian Storey-Moore, HarryRedknapp, and many more coming up against our youngsters. We have to use the loan system to give them the same type of experience against men.

[Bianconeri]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

The major change for 75/76 was the forward partnership of Cheesley and Ritchie, following the pairing of Fear and Gillies the previous campaign. Big Cheese had a love hate relationship with Alan Dicks and wasn't a regular starter until the promotion campaign. The major failing in 74/75 was our goals return. City had a sturdy defence, but the attack was less than prolific. Cheese and Tom R changed all that.

I remember Cheese arriving from Norwich around Christmas 1974 and not looking particularly fit. As you say, AD and he didn’t really hit it off and I don’t think Cheesley played that often at the end of the 74/75 season. I think we ended the season with Gillies and Tom Ritchie up front because Fear had fallen out with AD again.

The revelation for me came in a pre-season AS Cup game in July 1975 against Norwich (I think). Cheese looked half a stone lighter, so much fitter and mobile, and terrorised the defence in the way we came to love. Also memorable for a very long-range strike from Brian Drysdale.

 

 

[Gert Mare]

14 minutes ago, Bianconeri said:

I remember Cheese arriving from Norwich around Christmas 1974 and not looking particularly fit. As you say, AD and he didn’t really hit it off and I don’t think Cheesley played that often at the end of the 74/75 season. I think we ended the season with Gillies and Tom Ritchie up front because Fear had fallen out with AD again.

The revelation for me came in a pre-season AS Cup game in July 1975 against Norwich (I think). Cheese looked half a stone lighter, so much fitter and mobile, and terrorised the defence in the way we came to love. Also memorable for a very long-range strike from Brian Drysdale.

 

 

AD wanted a different approach, play more as a winger up and down. Natural game was on the shoulder of the last defender and then beat him in the air and on the ground for pace. 

[Bianconeri]

4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I can't think of many.

Players like Crowley, Griffin and Broomfield were reserves who played a few games but weren't good enough.

Later, players like Bain and McNeill were thought of as promising but were never going to displace the likes of Gow and Tainton.

Jock Rae brought young players over from Scotland as youths, .i.e Gow and the Ritchie brothers, and scouted the likes of Sweeney and Gillies from Morton. We must have had a good Northern scout too - perhaps that was also Rae - with Mann and Shaw arriving from Leeds for nothing.

Those that did break through - Ritchie, Gow, Merrick, Cashley, (Bond,) Rodgers, Collier. Whitehead, etc. turned out to be good enough, in all cases, for the top league, any others simply weren't even up to regular 2nd tier football, or departed for other reasons (homesickness in McGhee's case)

Who were all these lads who 'should' have broken through, but were thwarted by AD's loyalty? What did they go on to achieve in the game after they were released?

Who were all the faces brought in and discarded? Our successful signings ratio in that period was extremely high as far as I can remember.

 

 

I rated Kevin Griffin but he got kicked to pieces in a game v Villa (?) and seemed to lose all confidence after that.

[REDOXO]

On 24/04/2018 at 07:11, Dickie Rookes Peak said:

I just reminded myself that it took AD nine years to get City into the first division. Thinking back progress was slow and it took time to move up the table. Money was scarce and he had to find and develop young players. 

He really was a young and inexperienced manager (33 and Jimmy Hills assistant). However he was for that time very forward thinking and progressive in his approach.

Our current situation reminds me of then in many ways. I think we will progress quicker this time round. Our manager is far more experienced, more funds are available and facilities are better.

AD didn’t just rock up and create a very good team. Lots of supporters wanted him sacked and a new more experienced man brought in.

I think for the first time in a very long time the club is moving in the right direction. Sitting in the stands on Saturday I couldn’t believe my eyes that we didn’t win. This is a joy I’ve experienced many times in the forty years of following the city. However I am very confident we will be promoted within the next two years.

 

The season before we went up we finished pretty high up. We didn’t bring in or lose to many players and kicked on again. The times are different. LJ is likely to lose four players minimum and needs to find those replacements either internally or externally

[INCRED]

6 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I can't think of many.

Players like Crowley, Griffin and Broomfield were reserves who played a few games but weren't good enough.

Later, players like Bain and McNeill were thought of as promising but were never going to displace the likes of Gow and Tainton.

Jock Rae brought young players over from Scotland as youths, .i.e Gow and the Ritchie brothers, and scouted the likes of Sweeney and Gillies from Morton. We must have had a good Northern scout too - perhaps that was also Rae - with Mann and Shaw arriving from Leeds for nothing.

Those that did break through - Ritchie, Gow, Merrick, Cashley, (Bond,) Rodgers, Collier. Whitehead, etc. turned out to be good enough, in all cases, for the top league, any others simply weren't even up to regular 2nd tier football, or departed for other reasons (homesickness in McGhee's case)

Who were all these lads who 'should' have broken through, but were thwarted by AD's loyalty? What did they go on to achieve in the game after they were released?

Who were all the faces brought in and discarded? Our successful signings ratio in that period was extremely high as far as I can remember.

 

 

John Bain went to America to play in the then soccer league as I knew him when he was an apprentice at City

[Bangkok Red]

On 24/04/2018 at 08:21, wendyredredrobin said:

AD had John Sillett as his chief coach.  It may have been him that made the difference.

Absolutely. John Sillett was the man. It was no coincidence that it all went downhill for AD after Sillett departed.

 

8 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I don't think there were many at all who would have made it.

Agreed - there weren't many. Mark McGhee was one - went on to play for Celtic, Aberdeen & Newcastle.

 

8 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

We must have had a good Northern scout too - perhaps that was also Rae - with Mann and Shaw arriving from Leeds for nothing.

Tony Collins was the Northern scout and was the man behind the Mann and Shaw signings.

 

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I can't think of many.

Players like Crowley, Griffin and Broomfield were reserves who played a few games but weren't good enough.

Later, players like Bain and McNeill were thought of as promising but were never going to displace the likes of Gow and Tainton.

Jock Rae brought young players over from Scotland as youths, .i.e Gow and the Ritchie brothers, and scouted the likes of Sweeney and Gillies from Morton. We must have had a good Northern scout too - perhaps that was also Rae - with Mann and Shaw arriving from Leeds for nothing.

Those that did break through - Ritchie, Gow, Merrick, Cashley, (Bond,) Rodgers, Collier. Whitehead, etc. turned out to be good enough, in all cases, for the top league, any others simply weren't even up to regular 2nd tier football, or departed for other reasons (homesickness in McGhee's case)

Who were all these lads who 'should' have broken through, but were thwarted by AD's loyalty? What did they go on to achieve in the game after they were released?

Who were all the faces brought in and discarded? Our successful signings ratio in that period was extremely high as far as I can remember.

 

 

McGhee as mentioned above was one who did well.

Wasnt it rumoured around this time that we passed on a young kid called Trevor Francis?

To all the other posters, thanks for all the info, I was too young and only started watching in the 77/78 season.

[Bianconeri]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

McGhee as mentioned above was one who did well.

Wasnt it rumoured around this time that we passed on a young kid called Trevor Francis?

To all the other posters, thanks for all the info, I was too young and only started watching in the 77/78 season.

I believe so. I think we also had a chance to sign Paul Mariner as a youngster.

[PHILINFRANCE]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Wasnt it rumoured around this time that we passed on a young kid called Trevor Francis?

I don't think we actually 'passed' on Trevor Francis, rather that Birmingham were able to 'offer' a bit more.