When can we discuss the 'Progress' argument again?

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, Chivs said:

You must be made up with our progress as we finished above mid-table.  Awkward for you.  Isn't it.

For the record, I thought we'd finish 10th, but with a bit of a following wind, and a lot of luck, we could just scrape a playoff place.

Unlike you, I'm obviously disappointed with our progress.

I'm not going to swerve the next season question.  I think we will do much the same as this season (irrespective of who goes or comes) but I would hope we have more of a chance of playoffs.

If we get relegated "enough is enough".  If we are in danger of relegation in February, "enough is enough".

The bigger plan is important.  Strategy should not change due to a few tactical interruptions.  I swear there are some on here who just can't see this.

Everything about your post screams "sucked in by Bristol Sport"

Firstly...I don't feel awkward. I judge football on the here and now, and where the momentum is taking us. It's clear to see for anyone with half a football brain...we are heading in one direction 

You would let it roll to February? Or even until we are relagated? Absolutely crazy 

And finally...the bigger plan? We have had how many years of short comings under Lansdown ...yet people still believe that "their is a bigger plan"

I just don't see it. The penny will drop for the rest of you soon 

[RumRed]

2 hours ago, Chivs said:

You must be made up with our progress as we finished above mid-table.  Awkward for you.  Isn't it.

For the record, I thought we'd finish 10th, but with a bit of a following wind, and a lot of luck, we could just scrape a playoff place.

Unlike you, I'm obviously disappointed with our progress.

I'm not going to swerve the next season question.  I think we will do much the same as this season (irrespective of who goes or comes) but I would hope we have more of a chance of playoffs.

If we get relegated "enough is enough".  If we are in danger of relegation in February, "enough is enough".

The bigger plan is important.  Strategy should not change due to a few tactical interruptions.  I swear there are some on here who just can't see this.

Bless

[glynriley]

2 hours ago, Chivs said:

You must be made up with our progress as we finished above mid-table.  Awkward for you.  Isn't it.

For the record, I thought we'd finish 10th, but with a bit of a following wind, and a lot of luck, we could just scrape a playoff place.

Unlike you, I'm obviously disappointed with our progress.

I'm not going to swerve the next season question.  I think we will do much the same as this season (irrespective of who goes or comes) but I would hope we have more of a chance of playoffs.

If we get relegated "enough is enough".  If we are in danger of relegation in February, "enough is enough".

The bigger plan is important.  Strategy should not change due to a few tactical interruptions.  I swear there are some on here who just can't see this.

You were wrong then. 

So was I. I thought we'd finish about 15th pre season. Not in December though. I thought we'd make the play offs. Ah well. 

Early prediction for next season..bottom 6, hopefully we'll stay up.

But if we're in trouble in January I bet we throw more money at it than we did this year. 

 

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

29 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Everything about your post screams "sucked in by Bristol Sport"

Firstly...I don't feel awkward. I judge football on the here and now, and where the momentum is taking us. It's clear to see for anyone with half a football brain...we are heading in one direction 

You would let it roll to February? Or even until we are relagated? Absolutely crazy 

And finally...the bigger plan? We have had how many years of short comings under Lansdown ...yet people still believe that "their is a bigger plan"

I just don't see it. The penny will drop for the rest of you soon 

Have you not seen the new stadium , have you not seen the plans for the new training facilities   We know he is buying a lot of the outskirts of AG    In the last few years we have got into the championship, established ourselves in the championship and enjoyed a nice cup run     Haven’t we got something like the 15 biggest turnover / budget in the league yet we finished 11th which was most people’s hopes at the start of the season , we’ve also seen a few local lads becoming our star players which is always good to see and yet, because we’ve had a poor finish people are moaning about the owner, manager and just about everything.   It’s like listening to spoilt kids    Did you really think we were good enough to finish in the top 2 ,!!! We are what we are and we are where we are.   If you want non- progression then take a little look across the other side of the city 

[Chivs]

14 minutes ago, glynriley said:

You were wrong then. 

So was I. I thought we'd finish about 15th pre season. Not in December though. I thought we'd make the play offs. Ah well. 

Early prediction for next season..bottom 6, hopefully we'll stay up.

But if we're in trouble in January I bet we throw more money at it than we did this year. 

 

I can't tell you how bad I feel being so wrong.  Not as wrong as you though. 

I'm pleased you gave a prediction.  The normal "woe-is-me", Johnson is awful, we are doomed brigade, never quite give a suggestion of what will make them happy....

[glynriley]

 

2 minutes ago, Chivs said:

I can't tell you how bad I feel being so wrong.  Not as wrong as you though. 

I'm pleased you gave a prediction.  The normal "woe-is-me", Johnson is awful, we are doomed brigade, never quite give a suggestion of what will make them happy....

Do us a prediction for next year then. We'll see who's closest. 

Make allowances for a busy January window mind...

[Ivorguy]

What would make me happy is

evidence of a more professional approach from top to bottom

the end of the nonsense of BS model.  We are not Barcelona.

An effective and fully independent City Board

a greater democratisation of the club and greater recognition of fans

a commitment, backed up by action, that we aren't perpetually prepared to accept second best

Just for starters, others will add

[Andy082005]

33 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

Have you not seen the new stadium , have you not seen the plans for the new training facilities   We know he is buying a lot of the outskirts of AG    In the last few years we have got into the championship, established ourselves in the championship and enjoyed a nice cup run     Haven’t we got something like the 15 biggest turnover / budget in the league yet we finished 11th which was most people’s hopes at the start of the season , we’ve also seen a few local lads becoming our star players which is always good to see and yet, because we’ve had a poor finish people are moaning about the owner, manager and just about everything.   It’s like listening to spoilt kids    Did you really think we were good enough to finish in the top 2 ,!!! We are what we are and we are where we are.   If you want non- progression then take a little look across the other side of the city 

No.

In fact I won 2 bets with friends in January when we were 3rd and I said we wouldn't even make top 6. I knew we weren't good enough to sustain it...and I knew our January transfer business was diabolical 

[Fuber]

Personally loved it when LJ came out with that fantastic comeback to Villa fans in the press conference after the 5-0 drubbing.

Something along the lines of "I dont know why theyre bigging it up - we'll see the table at the end of the season".

That, for me, was the single most precious, petty, and childish response and its bit him on the ass like a Rottweiler on a chew-toy. And I cant recall him ever taking responsibility for this bad run. Fatigue, Unlucky, Blaming Individuals, Referees, Injuries. We've heard them all (again) this season. I place the blame for the second half of this season squarely at LJs feet, you cant have a team forget to play football this badly without cause. 

Last March-April, we beat both Huddersfield and Brighton, clean sheets both games. Also beating Barnsley, Wolves, and QPR.

We won as many games that month alone than we've won the entire second half of this season, and two of those teams were promoted.

And we've made progress?

Not buying it.

Championship as a whole is much weaker this season than last imho. Which makes this run as bad as last seasons considering how well we had been playing. We flew closer the sun but fell even further.

 

[grifty]

13 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

Thought we would finish mid-table. Next season...can't tell as it depends on who leaves. IF...Bryan, Reid and Flint leave...then wouldnt see anything more then a relegation battle.

Out of interest ...at what point for you does enough become enough? I swear there are some on here who would see us drop to League 1 and still try to claim "it's all part of the bigger plan"

 

Unfortunately there are a number on here who would see us drop to league 1 and be delighted because they have been proved right that LJ isn’t the right man.

There are a few of them in this thread. This forum has become very disjointed and it now seems if you don’t hate LJ, call him a midget and mention the word progress from last year you are stupid, a happy clapper and don’t understand football. There are people on here making this forum very unenjoyable and need to reign it in a bit.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, grifty said:

Unfortunately there are a number on here who would see us drop to league 1 and be delighted because they have been proved right that LJ isn’t the right man.

There are a few of them in this thread. This forum has become very disjointed and it now seems if you don’t hate LJ, call him a midget and mention the word progress from last year you are stupid, a happy clapper and don’t understand football. There are people on here making this forum very unenjoyable and need to reign it in a bit.

What a complete and utter load of B*******X

Its BECAUSE people don’t want to see us drop to L1 and believe that LJ could take us there , that they are ‘agitated’

 

[Gert Mare]

12 hours ago, Chivs said:

You must be made up with our progress as we finished above mid-table.  Awkward for you.  Isn't it.

For the record, I thought we'd finish 10th, but with a bit of a following wind, and a lot of luck, we could just scrape a playoff place.

Unlike you, I'm obviously disappointed with our progress.

I'm not going to swerve the next season question.  I think we will do much the same as this season (irrespective of who goes or comes) but I would hope we have more of a chance of playoffs.

If we get relegated "enough is enough".  If we are in danger of relegation in February, "enough is enough".

The bigger plan is important.  Strategy should not change due to a few tactical interruptions.  I swear there are some on here who just can't see this.

February would be far too late if we are near the bottom. I’d be rid by early November at the latest based on how we have played since the beginning of 2018. We have gone from 2nd to absolute dross.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

2 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

February would be far too late if we are near the bottom. I’d be rid by early November at the latest based on how we have played since the beginning of 2018. We have gone from 2nd to absolute dross.

This is what I don’t get.  Your saying a few bad results next season and you would get  rid !!  What , for being poor for 3 months ?  At Christmas, Millwall and Fulham were in the bottom half,  do you sack their managers for that or do you say well done, don’t worry about the poor 24 games at the start , it’s all about where we are now 

THE SEASON is 46 GAMES NOT 24

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

This is what I don’t get.  Your saying a few bad results next season and you would get  rid !!  What , for being poor for 3 months ?  At Christmas, Millwall and Fulham were in the bottom half,  do you sack their managers for that or do you say well done, don’t worry about the poor 24 games at the start , it’s all about where we are now 

THE SEASON is 46 GAMES NOT 24

You don’t get it do you (and even add some exclamation marks)

I think you’’ll find those who would get rid now or after ‘a few results’ will be basing that and their opinion on his whole tenure here and all the aspects to it , to date, not on a ‘few results’

How difficult is that to comprehend / understand ?

 

[RumRed]

18 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

This is what I don’t get.  Your saying a few bad results next season and you would get  rid !!  What , for being poor for 3 months ?  At Christmas, Millwall and Fulham were in the bottom half,  do you sack their managers for that or do you say well done, don’t worry about the poor 24 games at the start , it’s all about where we are now 

THE SEASON is 46 GAMES NOT 24

Words fail me.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You don’t get it do you (and even add some exclamation marks)

I think you’’ll find those who would get rid now or after ‘a few results’ will be basing that and their opinion on his whole tenure here and all the aspects to it , to date, not on a ‘few results’

How difficult is that to comprehend / understand ?

 

It’s not and I guess it is all down to opinion 

for me, I’ve really enjoyed this season , yes the second half was disappointing.   It was too much of a jump to expect promotion after last year so I wanted Top 10 and a good cup run.  We almost got that and as long as we build on it then fine   If we are in the bottom 6 at Christmas then we have gone backwards and then maybe SL will look to change     I’ve followed city for 30 years and After the mess of coppell, o Driscoll , mcinnes etc I’m just enjoying a bit of stability and decent football albeit for most not all of the season

 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

It’s not and I guess it is all down to opinion 

for me, I’ve really enjoyed this season , yes the second half was disappointing.   It was too much of a jump to expect promotion after last year so I wanted Top 10 and a good cup run.  We almost got that and as long as we build on it then fine   If we are in the bottom 6 at Christmas then we have gone backwards and then maybe SL will look to change     I’ve followed city for 30 years and After the mess of coppell, o Driscoll , mcinnes etc I’m just enjoying a bit of stability and decent football albeit for most not all of the season

 

 

And that’s all a lot of us want WYBH 

I think some are still feasting on the very enjoyable pre Christmas , some are disconcerted to various degrees by the slump and looking ahead some are worried about the threat of a real struggle next season 

As you say ultimately it boils down to opinions and there is also the results of crucial the Summer transfer window (This is where people’s real concerns regarding recruitment kicks in) and are concerned as to the result of it 

I don’t see stability , all I want really , but I see anything but tbh

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

It’s not and I guess it is all down to opinion 

for me, I’ve really enjoyed this season , yes the second half was disappointing.   It was too much of a jump to expect promotion after last year so I wanted Top 10 and a good cup run.  We almost got that and as long as we build on it then fine   If we are in the bottom 6 at Christmas then we have gone backwards and then maybe SL will look to change     I’ve followed city for 30 years and After the mess of coppell, o Driscoll , mcinnes etc I’m just enjoying a bit of stability and decent football albeit for most not all of the season

 

 

The issue then is Whale, what about LJs reign has bought any kind of stability? I accept our league position overall is better and thats fantastic, what isnt is the eventual manner we achieved that.

We have rumoured bust ups with players this season and last, coinciding with relatively horrific losses of form where the players just seemed to stop playing football. Tomlin was scapegoated and the blame pinned on him - but hes not as proffesional as other members of the squad at the time ergo Wilbraham.

Players he 'trusts' last season threw me as he should have had the backing of the whole squad. We shipped out Ayling and Freeman who havent been adequately replaced (Pisano and Eliasson respectively), who have been a loss overall imo.

That is the key difference between us, and the likes of Preston, Millwall, and Fulham.

They never suffered from horrific losses of form, rumours of losing the dressing room, or very poor recruiment. Starting poor and improving as the season progresses can happen when you're slow out of the blocks, due to confidence, form, injuries.

Fulham are the prime example and were probably the best team at AG this season.

Then look at their recruitment.

They've a net spend in the past 2 seasons of £2m. We've net spend 4 times that in the same period.

People argued 'but they (other clubs), had a better base squad to build from.

Fulham finished 17th 2 seasons ago. Parachute payments doesnt make a difference if they're recouping cost in players sold - its just wise investment and their academy. They're where we could be at right now, especially the first half of this season.

So on reflection -

Our current advantages:

We have manager who is a decent coach, and has shown he can implement at times a brilliabt style of football. But this is also a role at other clubs carried out by other coaching staff (Literally the only positives I could think of regarding LJ, and I did try).

Good academy and youth coaching setup and facilities. As well as good loan contacts i.e. Plymouth, Solihull, Cheltenham.

Increased revenue with the new stadium, increased ST prices, and better sponsorship from the cup run.

Our current negatives:

The head coach can't man manage. See Tomlin, Paterson, Baker (supposedly), Magnússon. Players he 'trusts' argument.

He provides little stability, for players, nor form. Literally pendulum like from great to garbage.

Tactically Poor. Questionable team selections. Poor substitutions. Doesnt take responsibility. Blaming the players and individuals when things go wrong.

Recruitment is just... horrific. Brownhill, one of the few positives, was with LJ at Barnsley so I dont think we can give the current (scouting) setup credit for that one. Nor Kodjia. Nor Baker.

All the others havent improved us, the only one I can exempt from that statement is Diedhiou. Paterson - no better than Tomlin, and even more inconsistant.

Another argument is that LJ says hes signing players we can develop. Lets review this discounting academy players and see if theyve developed at all. Engvall - No, Eliasson - No, Djuric - No, Taylor - No, Steele - No, Magnússon - No, Wright - No, Paterson - No, Moore - No, O'Dowda - Possibly, Brownhill - Yes.

The league this season was much weaker than last season and how next seasons is looking. We still failed to beat Bolton, Barnsley, Burton, anf Sunderland the second half of the season. One of the wins, Wednesday, was against a team so crippled by injuries they had no first team midfielders available.

Overall LJ had us playing as well as we were the start of last season, even better perhaps, and we kept that same start of season run going for a month longer (12-13 points). Then went on the same meadering and outright stupid loss of form.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[...]

54 minutes ago, Fuber said:

The issue then is Whale, what about LJs reign has bought any kind of stability? I accept our league position overall is better and thats fantastic, what isnt is the eventual manner we achieved that.

We have rumoured bust ups with players this season and last, coinciding with relatively horrific losses of form where the players just seemed to stop playing football. Tomlin was scapegoated and the blame pinned on him - but hes not as proffesional as other members of the squad at the time ergo Wilbraham.

Players he 'trusts' last season threw me as he should have had the backing of the whole squad. We shipped out Ayling and Freeman who havent been adequately replaced (Pisano and Eliasson respectively), who have been a loss overall imo.

That is the key difference between us, and the likes of Preston, Millwall, and Fulham.

They never suffered from horrific losses of form, rumours of losing the dressing room, or very poor recruiment. Starting poor and improving as the season progresses can happen when you're slow out of the blocks, due to confidence, form, injuries.

Fulham are the prime example and were probably the best team at AG this season.

Then look at their recruitment.

They've a net spend in the past 2 seasons of £2m. We've net spend 4 times that in the same period.

People argued 'but they (other clubs), had a better base squad to build from.

Fulham finished 17th 2 seasons ago. Parachute payments doesnt make a difference if they're recouping cost in players sold - its just wise investment and their academy. They're where we could be at right now, especially the first half of this season.

So on reflection -

Our current advantages:

We have manager who is a decent coach, and has shown he can implement at times a brilliabt style of football. But this is also a role at other clubs carried out by other coaching staff (Literally the only positives I could think of regarding LJ, and I did try).

Good academy and youth coaching setup and facilities. As well as good loan contacts i.e. Plymouth, Solihull, Cheltenham.

Increased revenue with the new stadium, increased ST prices, and better sponsorship from the cup run.

Our current negatives:

The head coach can't man manage. See Tomlin, Paterson, Baker (supposedly), Magnússon. Players he 'trusts' argument.

He provides little stability, for players, nor form. Literally pendulum like from great to garbage.

Tactically Poor. Questionable team selections. Poor substitutions. Doesnt take responsibility. Blaming the players and individuals when things go wrong.

Recruitment is just... horrific. Brownhill, one of the few positives, was with LJ at Barnsley so I dont think we can give the current (scouting) setup credit for that one. Nor Kodjia. Nor Baker.

All the others havent improved us, the only one I can exempt from that statement is Diedhiou. Paterson - no better than Tomlin, and even more inconsistant.

Another argument is that LJ says hes signing players we can develop. Lets review this discounting academy players and see if theyve developed at all. Engvall - No, Eliasson - No, Djuric - No, Taylor - No, Steele - No, Magnússon - No, Wright - No, Paterson - No, Moore - No, O'Dowda - Possibly, Brownhill - Yes.

The league this season was much weaker than last season and how next seasons is looking. We still failed to beat Bolton, Barnsley, Burton, anf Sunderland the second half of the season. One of the wins, Wednesday, was against a team so crippled by injuries they had no first team midfielders available.

Overall LJ had us playing as well as we were the start of last season, even better perhaps, and we kept that same start of season run going for a month longer (12-13 points). Then went on the same meadering and outright stupid loss of form.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yo, Fuber!?

What breed of dog have you got there?

Is that a natural smile, or has it been interfered with from behind to get it grinning?

Many thanks.

 

PL

[...]

P.S. Welsh Corgi??

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

The issue then is Whale, what about LJs reign has bought any kind of stability? I accept our league position overall is better and thats fantastic, what isnt is the eventual manner we achieved that...........

.......... Overall LJ had us playing as well as we were the start of last season, even better perhaps, and we kept that same start of season run going for a month longer (12-13 points). Then went on the same meadering and outright stupid loss of form.

Great post

Well set out and explained

[Andy082005]

9 hours ago, grifty said:

Unfortunately there are a number on here who would see us drop to league 1 and be delighted because they have been proved right that LJ isn’t the right man.

There are a few of them in this thread. This forum has become very disjointed and it now seems if you don’t hate LJ, call him a midget and mention the word progress from last year you are stupid, a happy clapper and don’t understand football. There are people on here making this forum very unenjoyable and need to reign it in a bit.

There is not one Bristol City fan who would be 'delighted' if we got relegated. It really irks me when people say that 

I am one of the loudest posters on here and I want City to flourish ON the pitch. I would love to be sat here this time next May , play off tickets in my hand...and all you lot saying "you were wrong"

 

[winterbournered]

9 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You don’t get it do you (and even add some exclamation marks)

I think you’’ll find those who would get rid now or after ‘a few results’ will be basing that and their opinion on his whole tenure here and all the aspects to it , to date, not on a ‘few results’

How difficult is that to comprehend / understand ?

 

During his whole tenure here our league positions have improved season upon season. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, winterbournered said:

During his whole tenure here our league positions have improved season upon season. 

Looking forward , that’s as deep and as far as you look is it ?

 

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

5 hours ago, Fuber said:

The issue then is Whale, what about LJs reign has bought any kind of stability? I accept our league position overall is better and thats fantastic, what isnt is the eventual manner we achieved that.

We have rumoured bust ups with players this season and last, coinciding with relatively horrific losses of form where the players just seemed to stop playing football. Tomlin was scapegoated and the blame pinned on him - but hes not as proffesional as other members of the squad at the time ergo Wilbraham.

Players he 'trusts' last season threw me as he should have had the backing of the whole squad. We shipped out Ayling and Freeman who havent been adequately replaced (Pisano and Eliasson respectively), who have been a loss overall imo.

That is the key difference between us, and the likes of Preston, Millwall, and Fulham.

They never suffered from horrific losses of form, rumours of losing the dressing room, or very poor recruiment. Starting poor and improving as the season progresses can happen when you're slow out of the blocks, due to confidence, form, injuries.

Fulham are the prime example and were probably the best team at AG this season.

Then look at their recruitment.

They've a net spend in the past 2 seasons of £2m. We've net spend 4 times that in the same period.

People argued 'but they (other clubs), had a better base squad to build from.

Fulham finished 17th 2 seasons ago. Parachute payments doesnt make a difference if they're recouping cost in players sold - its just wise investment and their academy. They're where we could be at right now, especially the first half of this season.

So on reflection -

Our current advantages:

We have manager who is a decent coach, and has shown he can implement at times a brilliabt style of football. But this is also a role at other clubs carried out by other coaching staff (Literally the only positives I could think of regarding LJ, and I did try).

Good academy and youth coaching setup and facilities. As well as good loan contacts i.e. Plymouth, Solihull, Cheltenham.

Increased revenue with the new stadium, increased ST prices, and better sponsorship from the cup run.

Our current negatives:

The head coach can't man manage. See Tomlin, Paterson, Baker (supposedly), Magnússon. Players he 'trusts' argument.

He provides little stability, for players, nor form. Literally pendulum like from great to garbage.

Tactically Poor. Questionable team selections. Poor substitutions. Doesnt take responsibility. Blaming the players and individuals when things go wrong.

Recruitment is just... horrific. Brownhill, one of the few positives, was with LJ at Barnsley so I dont think we can give the current (scouting) setup credit for that one. Nor Kodjia. Nor Baker.

All the others havent improved us, the only one I can exempt from that statement is Diedhiou. Paterson - no better than Tomlin, and even more inconsistant.

Another argument is that LJ says hes signing players we can develop. Lets review this discounting academy players and see if theyve developed at all. Engvall - No, Eliasson - No, Djuric - No, Taylor - No, Steele - No, Magnússon - No, Wright - No, Paterson - No, Moore - No, O'Dowda - Possibly, Brownhill - Yes.

The league this season was much weaker than last season and how next seasons is looking. We still failed to beat Bolton, Barnsley, Burton, anf Sunderland the second half of the season. One of the wins, Wednesday, was against a team so crippled by injuries they had no first team midfielders available.

Overall LJ had us playing as well as we were the start of last season, even better perhaps, and we kept that same start of season run going for a month longer (12-13 points). Then went on the same meadering and outright stupid loss of form.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Recruiting is the hardest thing to get right , we can’t afford a been there done that type  so we have to gamble on a foreign player or a player from the lower leagues that you have to guess if they can make the step up  there isn’t one team that gets it right all the time.    Wolves can afford 40k wages , Cardiff and Leeds can afford 25k whilst we are in the 15k max budget. 

Regarding Man management, he fell out with Tomlin and pemberton because they tried to turn the dressing room against LJ 

he fell out with flint as flint went back on his word with something but he sorted it out and got him back In the team.  That’s good man management 

blaming players when they make mistakes...so what.  Mourinho does it when needed.  Is it Johnson’s fault frank fielding had a rush of blood to the head against wolves with a season changing mistake. Is it Johnson’s fault that 2 Pisano mistakes cost us against hull I think 

you say the current bunch haven’t improved us , well this season  tells me otherwise 

good post fuber 

[Fuber]

51 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

Recruiting is the hardest thing to get right , we can’t afford a been there done that type  so we have to gamble on a foreign player or a player from the lower leagues that you have to guess if they can make the step up  there isn’t one team that gets it right all the time.    Wolves can afford 40k wages , Cardiff and Leeds can afford 25k whilst we are in the 15k max budget. 

I'll stagger my points in a point by point counter argument.

Firstly, I'm not arguing that - recruitment is not a science and theres massive degrees of chance and circumstance. But if we're signing players and 4 at most have made it to the first eleven out of over 30 signings?

Secondly, your quoting clubs that have had parachute payments, so of course they're going to have better wage allowances where their budgets are artificially inflated. How about more even comparison with clubs nearer our gate receipts? Ipswich, Reading, Fulham, Preston, Millwall, Brentford. Which of those have invested similar amounts in expenditure to us? Only Brentford and Fulham. 

The difference? Fulham have broke even, Brentford have made a profit.

We're, for the last two seasons, operating transfer wise at a loss of £11m even with the return on Kodjia, who LJ and MA sold - but was a Cotts signing.

Regarding Man management, he fell out with Tomlin and pemberton because they tried to turn the dressing room against LJ.

This seemed to be the inferred information, and the reason for the downturn in form.

Great! So this season we shouldn't have had an issue with disruption in the dressing room!

... What's that?

We've gone on a run almost as bad from a much better position, with no 'leaders' yet Baker, O'Neil, and Wrighty nowhere to be seen?

Add to that Pack going apeshit at LJ in the second half. The same Marlon who has far as I can remember has never been one to let his temper get the best of him?

... I'm likely overthinking it. But I'm seeing paralells to Huddersfield. Again.

he fell out with flint as flint went back on his word with something but he sorted it out and got him back In the team.  That’s good man management.

Flint went back on his word...? With what exactly? Flint was subject of interest from another club. No manager would take that risk. If there was a falling out I wouldn't see why Aden would subject himself to a new contract - or possibly he's been assurred if we had a bid meeting his valuation we'd let him go?

blaming players when they make mistakes...so what.  Mourinho does it when needed.  Is it Johnson’s fault frank fielding had a rush of blood to the head against wolves with a season changing mistake. Is it Johnson’s fault that 2 Pisano mistakes cost us against hull I think you say the current bunch haven’t improved us , well this season tells me otherwise.

Where to begin. Two of the problem positions when he came here? Who would of guessed!

Regarding the example you gave - Mourinho is the last manager I'd want LJ idolising! His management career has been on a downward spiral since Madrid. If a player makes a mistake why does it happen? Off the top of my head Mignolet had a howler at Christmas, Klopp could of easily pointed the finger. His reply? "Defending is a team thing". His point was you attack as a team, we defend as a team, succeed or fail, as a team.

The direct quote -

"Defending is a team thing. Today we make individual mistakes and that is not cool. My job is to think about the performance and that was a winning performance.

"If you want, the draw is our halfway win. We are always a better side when we draw. We have to take the good things and work on the lesser good things."

"This season tells me otherwise" - How?

Which part of the season? The part where we could manage shots on target, or the half where we've had 4(?) games where we didnt manage a single shot on target? The part where with over 25-30 players on the books and we still dont have depth of a good enough quality for DR, DL, DC, CM, RM, or ST?

good post fuber 

If this is sarcasm, note it doesnt come across in writing.

I'll bite. Great counter argument, Whale.

See - it doesnt come across well. I feel petty having written that now.

 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, winterbournered said:

During his whole tenure here our league positions have improved season upon season. 

4 wins in the last 22 league games....aren’t you concerned at all?

[...]

10 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

4 wins in the last 22 league games....aren’t you concerned at all?

We did not break the club record for consecutive losses this season, so that is clear PROOF of progress.

Let no-one argue with this: 'well done Lee'.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

 

I can’t be arsed to pick through your detailed response but wolves and Leeds have not had parachute payments this year 

marlon pack didn’t go apeshit at Johnson   I was right next to the bench , he held his arms into a wide position and said to LJ “ we are trying to push brownie up and flint when we can as we have got nothing to lose.  I’ll drop in when I can”. 

I could tell you the flint story but I won’t , it will get someone in trouble as there was only 4 in the room ( I know that’s sounds BS but I promise it’s not and yes he acted a **** )   I agree Mourinho wasn’t a great example as he keeps losing dressing rooms but my point is LJ doesn’t keep singling our players 

my comment wasn’t sarcasm I actually meant that your post was a good post 

there are other points I could argue but it will go round in circles 

I’ll carry on enjoying watching the city whilst you can carry on getting frustrated with it

all the best

[Fuber]

14 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I can’t be arsed to pick through your detailed response but wolves and Leeds have not had parachute payments this year 

marlon pack didn’t go apeshit at Johnson   I was right next to the bench , he held his arms into a wide position and said to LJ “ we are trying to push brownie up and flint when we can as we have got nothing to lose.  I’ll drop in when I can”. 

I could tell you the flint story but I won’t , it will get someone in trouble as there was only 4 in the room ( I know that’s sounds BS but I promise it’s not and yes he acted a **** )   I agree Mourinho wasn’t a great example as he keeps losing dressing rooms but my point is LJ doesn’t keep singling our players 

my comment wasn’t sarcasm I actually meant that your post was a good post 

there are other points I could argue but it will go round in circles 

I’ll carry on enjoying watching the city whilst you can carry on getting frustrated with it

all the best

But is comparing us with Wolves and Leeds fair? One had an agent was a questionable albeit legal (per the FA) connection, and have had parachute payments recently (2012-2016), Leeds have much bigger gates so can take the losses to an extent due to greater turnover. We shouldn't be blowing this much money on unproven players such as Eliasson, Engvall, Hegeler, Diony, to name a few.

"LJ doesnt single out player" - I recall at least one time he shoved Magnússon under the bus so to speak, last season. Add to that the 'players he trusts' incident, which I'll note returned after Sunderland "I’ve got to pick a team that’s trust worthy...", after he blamed himself - well, how does that make sense? He still doesn't trust members of the squad? How is that promoting stability?

And I apologise for miss-interpreting your intended praise - can be a hard thing to come by on here.

I want LJ to succeed, we've seen he can get us playing great football - but these horrific runs he goes on... just what exactly is going on? - That, and the poor performances and lack of cohesion in the last 20 games, how can anyone not be frustrated? All in a league that is much weaker than it was last season with the falls of teams such as Barnsley, Reading, Sunderland, and Hull.

How is that promoting stability - Not having a go at you here Whale, but the portion who I've seen defend LJ. If this happened to any other manager besides Johnson, would they have been sacked by now? 

• Cotterill - 4 wins in his final 24 matches - Sacked 14th January 2016.
• O'Driscoll - 5 wins in his final 24 matches - Sacked 28th November 2013.
• McInnes - 4 wins in his final 24 matches - Sacked 12th January 2013.
• Millen - 9 wins in his final 24 matches - Sacked 3rd October 2011. (1 Win in 10 when sacked).

By Comparison:

• Johnson - 4 wins in his 29 matches between 25th October 2016 up to 28th February 2017.
• Johnson - 4 wins in his 25 matches from 30th December up until present. (2 in his last 11, 10 points matched)

So by those statistics, he should've been sacked twice now if we're using the parameters that Millen, McInnes, and Cotterill were sacked by. Our current situation is not sustainable, or stabilising for the club. If you apply our form from the last 22 games over the course of the season gives 41 points (Joint with Barnsley and Burton). Put that into the 2016/2017 table - 23rd, below Wigan.

If we were any other club or any other manager, then the latter would've definitely of been sacked by now, once is understandable, and I'm glad LJ recovered. But twice, with the position we were in? I don't think any club has done that sort of freefall that I can recall. Completely unacceptable.

I want to be optimistic. But it's difficult. If our performances were anywhere near what we showed against QPR I wouldn't be this aggrieved - but they haven't been, and the home displays against Sheff Utd, Hull, and Brentford, honestly, all the players and Johnson need to meet with a fan face to face and ask themselves whether they gave enough.