England Squad Wednesday

[Lew-T]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

Yep. Personally I can’t see what the fuss is with Jones. He looks so cumbersome. I don’t really rate Smalling either. 

We are really struggling for decent centre backs in this country at the moment. If Stones & Maguire are the best we can offer, it’s very disappointing. 

The bloke is a liability. Agree with Smalling but we’re not exactly spoilt for choice like you’ve pointed out. 

It’s a shame. Thinking back what options we had at CB a few years ago!

John Terry

Rio Ferdinand 

Sol Campbell

Tony Adams

Martin Keown

Ledley King

[JasonM88]

33 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yep. Personally I can’t see what the fuss is with Jones. He looks so cumbersome. I don’t really rate Smalling either. 

We are really struggling for decent centre backs in this country at the moment. If Stones & Maguire are the best we can offer, it’s very disappointing. 

Look at Utd’s record with and without Phil Jones. He’s one of those that has suffered because they had been previously hugely over rated and over egged, but have since developed into a half decent player.

[Nogbad the Bad]

6 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

Leon Bailey’s a difficult one. Because he’s adopted no ones really sure wether he’s eligible.

None of Bailey's grandparents were born in Britain so he's definitely not eligible for England.

[JasonM88]

6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

None of Bailey's grandparents were born in Britain so he's definitely not eligible for England.

Wrong. 

[rednotblue]

Needs to play 523 imho

 

pickford

walker Dier stones

trippier Loftus-Cheek Henderson young 

Sterling Kane Ali

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, JasonM88 said:

Wrong. 

Not at all.

His adoptive grandfather was in the RAF during WW2 but there is no bloodline connection between Bailey and Britain which would make him eligible to play for England.

 

[BanburyRed]

Credit Southgate for sorting the goalkeeping position out, dropping Hart means we now have 3 excellent stopers to concentrate on. Pope fully deserves his call up.

Defence....well, how many do we need? Jones?! Surely not. If Smalling doesn't get the call then neither can Jones. Tarkowski in his place all day long. And Cahill, barely getting a game for Chelsea, likewise Stones for Man City. Alexander-Arnold a good call, as long as he gets a game. Otherwise it will be the Walcott syndrome all over again, denying someone else a call up.

Personally i would have included Wilshere, despite his fragility, he offers some guile and ingenuity. And there's a case for Shelvey too. Good to see Loftus-Cheek in.

Kane and Vardy definites, unsure on Welbeck, think Southgate sees him for his versatility and ability to play a role when asked. Still think that Sterling will miss a standout chance when called upon to win a game, most of his goals for Man City this season are tap ins?

It's an OK squad, nothing to get too excited about. It at least has the making of some stability and youth for the future. Hopefully the pressure is off as the squad is relatively new and untested.

Let's see what they're made of if we draw the first 2 games and need to beat Belgium to progress out of the group....

[BCFC11]

11 hours ago, The Batman said:

One name that has evaded everyone 

James ward-prowse.

Played tournament football for all the youth levels and with livermore and wilshire out, could he be one who is chosen? We shall see 

Shame about sessegnon as I'd have taken him but time is on his side. Course, there could be injuries between now and the world cup anyway. 

Agree, Ward-Prowse should of gone, he takes a great set-piece, something we have severely lacked for a few years.

[JasonM88]

47 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Not at all.

His adoptive grandfather was in the RAF during WW2 but there is no bloodline connection between Bailey and Britain which would make him eligible to play for England.

 

There’s ways to be eligible without bloodline. You think the FA would be chasing him without him being eligible. Germany and Belgium also chasing him, no ones quite sure how it can work. 

[ZiderEyed]

For comparison, the French won't be taking the following players to the World Cup.

Benzema

Payet

Martial

Lacazette

Coman

Ben Yedder

Gignac

Rabiot

Laporte

[Mr Popodopolous]

Wow, that is depth! France have the deepest range of high calibre players I reckon.

As for us.

Is a shame that Wilshere and Lallana weren't in the squad- though I fully get it owing to fitness reasons.

A fit Wilshere and Lallana could have got us going with a good formation IMO.

In a 4-3-3, something like- had they been fit etc:

Pickford

Walker Stones Cahill/Maguire/Jones Rose

Dier Wilshere Lallana

Alli  Sterling

Kane

The front 3 being fluid, as opposed to traditional wingers. Dipping inside, dipping outside- fluid, flexible versatile...shame they weren't available tbh.

Still maybe that sort of setup is plausible- only with Henderson for Wilshire say and Rashford for Lallana- Alli dropping back to form a 3 in the middle so...

Pickford

Walker Stones Cahill/Maguire/Jones Rose

Dier Alli Henderson 

Sterling Rashford

       Kane

Still could have a pretty fluid side with that setup IMO- think we're a bit light in midfield though.

[The Bard]

Sadly enough I actually bothered to watch Southgate's press conference and he performed very well.  Swatted a couple of idiotic questions aside, there was a clear sense of method in how they have selected the squad. He was clear that certain players weren't picked because they weren't as good as those picked.  He clearly takes no notice of pundits thank god. He watches loads of games live as opposed to being sat in a studio just looking at bits and pieces of games.  

One thing I took was that he really wanted to pick Lallana, but felt he couldn't because he had made an issue out of players being fit and having games under their belt.  He basically said that Wilshire was out of form (100% correct) and that Bertrand was unlucky as others' versatility had pushed him out the 23.  If he can keep his calmness and clarity of thought through the tournament then I think we'll do well.  Most importantly, don't let the media pick the team like Hodgson did....

[The Bard]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wow, that is depth! France have the deepest range of high calibre players I reckon.

As for us.

Is a shame that Wilshere and Lallana weren't in the squad- though I fully get it owing to fitness reasons.

A fit Wilshere and Lallana could have got us going with a good formation IMO.

In a 4-3-3, something like- had they been fit etc:

Pickford

Walker Stones Cahill/Maguire/Jones Rose

Dier Wilshere Lallana

Alli  Sterling

Kane

The front 3 being fluid, as opposed to traditional wingers. Dipping inside, dipping outside- fluid, flexible versatile...shame they weren't available tbh.

Still maybe that sort of setup is plausible- only with Henderson for Wilshire say and Rashford for Lallana- Alli dropping back to form a 3 in the middle so...

Pickford

Walker Stones Cahill/Maguire/Jones Rose

Dier Alli Henderson 

Sterling Rashford

       Kane

Still could have a pretty fluid side with that setup IMO- think we're a bit light in midfield though.

Lovely theory.  Trouble is we will play 3 at the back and neither Lallana or Wilshire are in the squad.  I hope Lingard is picked ahead of Alli.  Just a better player with a much better temperament..

[Super]

29 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Sadly enough I actually bothered to watch Southgate's press conference and he performed very well.  Swatted a couple of idiotic questions aside, there was a clear sense of method in how they have selected the squad. He was clear that certain players weren't picked because they weren't as good as those picked.  He clearly takes no notice of pundits thank god. He watches loads of games live as opposed to being sat in a studio just looking at bits and pieces of games.  

One thing I took was that he really wanted to pick Lallana, but felt he couldn't because he had made an issue out of players being fit and having games under their belt.  He basically said that Wilshire was out of form (100% correct) and that Bertrand was unlucky as others' versatility had pushed him out the 23.  If he can keep his calmness and clarity of thought through the tournament then I think we'll do well.  Most importantly, don't let the media pick the team like Hodgson did....

Will be interesting if Lallana plays a blinder next Saturday! Thought he looked really good against brighton and yes I know he hasn't played much football but we have 2 warm up games for him to play in. I think he should be in considering he is one of our best players.

[Mr Popodopolous]

53 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Lovely theory.  Trouble is we will play 3 at the back and neither Lallana or Wilshire are in the squad.  I hope Lingard is picked ahead of Alli.  Just a better player with a much better temperament..

I know Wilshere and Lallana won't likely be available- what might have been was my ideal first 11...

3 at the back?

Who would your squad be in a back 3- Dier as part of back 3?

Is good to see Alexander-Arnold and Loftus-Cheek in the squad- will be better for the experience IMO, even if they don't necessarily see a lot of game time.

[Davefevs]

Walker Stones Maguire

[Super]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Walker Stones Maguire

Trent Alexander Arnold.

[The Bard]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I know Wilshere and Lallana won't likely be available- what might have been was my ideal first 11...

3 at the back?

Who would your squad be in a back 3- Dier as part of back 3?

Is good to see Alexander-Arnold and Loftus-Cheek in the squad- will be better for the experience IMO, even if they don't necessarily see a lot of game time.

I think Dier is not as good as people hoped he would be.  Hasn't progressed much over the last 2 years.  In contrast I think Henderson is much better now than 2 years ago and clearly a good leader.  If he lifts the Champions League trophy, it's going to be difficult to see anyone else as captain.  I really hope Southgate isn't fooled into thinking the way forward is to fill the team full of Spurs players.  Can see Dier being a bench player.  Useful sub to close out games.

Agree with Dave that Walker Stones and Maguire will be the back 3 but would not be at all surprised to see Dier supplant Stones if he has a lapse.  Most interesting decision is going to be in CM next to Henderson. Ox was an absolute shoe-in given his performances for both Liverpool and in the last 2 England friendlies.  They'll be looking for someone to provide drive from deeper areas next to Henderson.  Can see Delph playing. Or as a long shot, TAA. 

Wing backs is interesting.  Perception is that it is Trippier and Rose but both are wholly underwhelming.  IN Euro 96 we had McManaman and Anderton in those positions and it worked. Maybe Southgate will be bolder in these positions?  TAA or Young are better footballers than Rose and Trippier.  

Front 3 is fluid. Perceived wisdom is Kane and he is probably best against Tunisia and Panama but I don't think he is anywhere near the level he is commonly perceived to be.  A footballing Graeme Hick.  Hatricks v Watford and Huddersfield but at the highest level he has to prove himself.  On the other hand, Vardy has proved himself in a lesser team.  He will scare every team he plays against. His goalscoring record shows he will probably be a greater threat against teams when we don't dominate possession.  If Kane isn't doing it, get him in against Belgium.

Rashford is talented but not at the level to start in the World Cup.  He is going through the consolidation phase having shown the promise. Sterling was at this stage 2 years ago and was played when he should have been left on the bench.   In contrast I think Lingard has quietly become a top player and could be our success story of this tournament.  He doesn't get flogged to death at Manure and seems to have the knack of scoring important goals.  Intelligent and adaptable.  Alli - wouldn't be surprised to see him start on the bench.  Good.  He has to prove something.  There's a strong whiff of entitlement about him and Southgate basically called this out when he didn't play in the last 2 friendlies.

Sterling - will start and has now settled into being a top level player.  I do worry that he has a catastrophic miss in him though.  England will not give him a string of sitters like Man City.  Like Kane he needs a good start to the tournament or it's time for someone else.  

Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Lucky to be involved as is Welbeck.  He is talented and has looked decent at times.  Could be good.  Not sure when you would play Welbeck?  Whatever formation there are better options and plenty of them.  A good tourist?  Someone to carry the drinks? (that's 2 cricketing analogies in this ramble). Lallana would have had one of their places if he had any kind of game time under his belt.  

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, The Bard said:

I think Dier is not as good as people hoped he would be.  Hasn't progressed much over the last 2 years.  In contrast I think Henderson is much better now than 2 years ago and clearly a good leader.  If he lifts the Champions League trophy, it's going to be difficult to see anyone else as captain.  I really hope Southgate isn't fooled into thinking the way forward is to fill the team full of Spurs players.  Can see Dier being a bench player.  Useful sub to close out games.

yes, agree.  Hope they don’t play together, would stifle the way we go forward.  Of course, against a top nation, that might be our best option, but not Tunisia and Panama.

Agree with Dave that Walker Stones and Maguire will be the back 3 but would not be at all surprised to see Dier supplant Stones if he has a lapse. 

Yes, I think he’s probably first choice if the 3 I suggest don’t start.

Most interesting decision is going to be in CM next to Henderson. Ox was an absolute shoe-in given his performances for both Liverpool and in the last 2 England friendlies.  They'll be looking for someone to provide drive from deeper areas next to Henderson.  Can see Delph playing. Or as a long shot, TAA. 

I’d play Rubens Loftus-Cheek....I don’t Others would though.

Wing backs is interesting.  Perception is that it is Trippier and Rose but both are wholly underwhelming.  IN Euro 96 we had McManaman and Anderton in those positions and it worked. Maybe Southgate will be bolder in these positions?  TAA or Young are better footballers than Rose and Trippier.  

Happy with Trippier, but I’d go Young on the other side.  He has looked really good there.  I like the McManaman / Anderton comparison.....and Southgate was part of that.

Front 3 is fluid. Perceived wisdom is Kane and he is probably best against Tunisia and Panama but I don't think he is anywhere near the level he is commonly perceived to be.  A footballing Graeme Hick. 

Ha ha, great shout.  Got to play him with someone.  For England he isn’t good enough in the general play to play on his own.

Hatricks v Watford and Huddersfield but at the highest level he has to prove himself.  On the other hand, Vardy has proved himself in a lesser team.  He will scare every team he plays against. His goalscoring record shows he will probably be a greater threat against teams when we don't dominate possession.  If Kane isn't doing it, get him in against Belgium.

Pair Kane and Vardy....who has scored against the top nations.  Play Lingard off of them, helping the midfield.  Has done more recently for England than Alli has and deserves the nod.  Suspect Southgate will start with Alli.

Rashford is talented but not at the level to start in the World Cup.  He is going through the consolidation phase having shown the promise. Sterling was at this stage 2 years ago and was played when he should have been left on the bench.   In contrast I think Lingard has quietly become a top player and could be our success story of this tournament.  He doesn't get flogged to death at Manure and seems to have the knack of scoring important goals.  Intelligent and adaptable.  Alli - wouldn't be surprised to see him start on the bench.  Good.  He has to prove something.  There's a strong whiff of entitlement about him and Southgate basically called this out when he didn't play in the last 2 friendlies.

Sterling deserves a start if we play one up, but if we got 5212/532, then I can only assume Vardy will be one of the two, nit Raheem.  Had a goid season, and has done much better for England than he gets the credit for.

Sterling - will start and has now settled into being a top level player.  I do worry that he has a catastrophic miss in him though.  England will not give him a string of sitters like Man City.  Like Kane he needs a good start to the tournament or it's time for someone else.  

Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Lucky to be involved as is Welbeck.  He is talented and has looked decent at times.  Could be good.  Not sure when you would play Welbeck?  Whatever formation there are better options and plenty of them.  A good tourist?  Someone to carry the drinks? (that's 2 cricketing analogies in this ramble). Lallana would have had one of their places if he had any kind of game time under his belt.  

Welbeck has always done well for England.  I can only see him playing if we go 433 at some point.  See above re RL-C.

 

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Super said:

Trent Alexander Arnold.

I keep wanting to call him Terence Trent d'arby.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

I think Dier is not as good as people hoped he would be.  Hasn't progressed much over the last 2 years.  In contrast I think Henderson is much better now than 2 years ago and clearly a good leader.  If he lifts the Champions League trophy, it's going to be difficult to see anyone else as captain.  I really hope Southgate isn't fooled into thinking the way forward is to fill the team full of Spurs players.  Can see Dier being a bench player.  Useful sub to close out games.

Agree with Dave that Walker Stones and Maguire will be the back 3 but would not be at all surprised to see Dier supplant Stones if he has a lapse.  Most interesting decision is going to be in CM next to Henderson. Ox was an absolute shoe-in given his performances for both Liverpool and in the last 2 England friendlies.  They'll be looking for someone to provide drive from deeper areas next to Henderson.  Can see Delph playing. Or as a long shot, TAA. 

Wing backs is interesting.  Perception is that it is Trippier and Rose but both are wholly underwhelming.  IN Euro 96 we had McManaman and Anderton in those positions and it worked. Maybe Southgate will be bolder in these positions?  TAA or Young are better footballers than Rose and Trippier.  

Front 3 is fluid. Perceived wisdom is Kane and he is probably best against Tunisia and Panama but I don't think he is anywhere near the level he is commonly perceived to be.  A footballing Graeme Hick.  Hatricks v Watford and Huddersfield but at the highest level he has to prove himself.  On the other hand, Vardy has proved himself in a lesser team.  He will scare every team he plays against. His goalscoring record shows he will probably be a greater threat against teams when we don't dominate possession.  If Kane isn't doing it, get him in against Belgium.

Rashford is talented but not at the level to start in the World Cup.  He is going through the consolidation phase having shown the promise. Sterling was at this stage 2 years ago and was played when he should have been left on the bench.   In contrast I think Lingard has quietly become a top player and could be our success story of this tournament.  He doesn't get flogged to death at Manure and seems to have the knack of scoring important goals.  Intelligent and adaptable.  Alli - wouldn't be surprised to see him start on the bench.  Good.  He has to prove something.  There's a strong whiff of entitlement about him and Southgate basically called this out when he didn't play in the last 2 friendlies.

Sterling - will start and has now settled into being a top level player.  I do worry that he has a catastrophic miss in him though.  England will not give him a string of sitters like Man City.  Like Kane he needs a good start to the tournament or it's time for someone else.  

Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Lucky to be involved as is Welbeck.  He is talented and has looked decent at times.  Could be good.  Not sure when you would play Welbeck?  Whatever formation there are better options and plenty of them.  A good tourist?  Someone to carry the drinks? (that's 2 cricketing analogies in this ramble). Lallana would have had one of their places if he had any kind of game time under his belt.  

Don't agree about Kane- think he's quality and will only get better tbh. Definitely a question over how he does when we don't dominate the ball- think v Spain, Germany, Brazil maybe, perhaps France, Argentina- on their day Portugal...

Kane for club- and I appreciate it's not that simple- this season scored v Arsenal, Liverpool (yes yes I know, it was a pen) in the League.

In Europe this season is a good barometer though:

• V Dortmund- 2 goals and an assist at Wembley. Goal over there.
• In Madrid, got an assist.
• Scored in Turin.

Think he can do it v big sides. Is he the finished article? Nope. However he has IMO got what it takes to get a goal, or to contribute competitively in big games.

Will have a look at the rest of your post later but Kane I'm optimistic about.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, The Bard said:

Agree with Dave that Walker Stones and Maguire will be the back 3 but would not be at all surprised to see Dier supplant Stones if he has a lapse.  Most interesting decision is going to be in CM next to Henderson. Ox was an absolute shoe-in given his performances for both Liverpool and in the last 2 England friendlies.  They'll be looking for someone to provide drive from deeper areas next to Henderson.  Can see Delph playing. Or as a long shot, TAA. 

In midfield ? 

 

Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Lucky to be involved as is Welbeck.  He is talented and has looked decent at times.  Could be good.  

I wouldn’t be shocked to see RLC start alongside Henderson in opening game

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Don't agree about Kane- think he's quality and will only get better tbh. Definitely a question over how he does when we don't dominate the ball- think v Spain, Germany, Brazil maybe, perhaps France, Argentina- on their day Portugal...

Kane for club- and I appreciate it's not that simple- this season scored v Arsenal, Liverpool (yes yes I know, it was a pen) in the League.

In Europe this season is a good barometer though:

• V Dortmund- 2 goals and an assist at Wembley. Goal over there.
• In Madrid, got an assist.
• Scored in Turin.

Think he can do it v big sides. Is he the finished article? Nope. However he has IMO got what it takes to get a goal, or to contribute competitively in big games.

Will have a look at the rest of your post later but Kane I'm optimistic about.

He plays with better players for Tottenham than he does for England. 

Seriously though, my point above is genuine.  Bit like why did Gerrard rarely play as well for England as he did for Liverpool?  Because he didn’t have Torres making great runs, he didn’t have Mascerano or Xabi Alonso alongside him, etc.  That’s not the whole reason, but it’s certainly contributory.

I’m not saying Kane isn’t a good player, he’s certainly a very good finisher, just I don’t think he adds much to the play aside from goals.  A minority view I accept.  His record for country is good, but we do need to find a way to get him into those goalscoring positions....for me that’s with someone like Vardy alongside him.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He plays with better players for Tottenham than he does for England. 

Seriously though, my point above is genuine.  Bit like why did Gerrard rarely play as well for England as he did for Liverpool?  Because he didn’t have Torres making great runs, he didn’t have Mascerano or Xabi Alonso alongside him, etc.  That’s not the whole reason, but it’s certainly contributory.

I’m not saying Kane isn’t a good player, he’s certainly a very good finisher, just I don’t think he adds much to the play aside from goals.  A minority view I accept.  His record for country is good, but we do need to find a way to get him into those goalscoring positions....for me that’s with someone like Vardy alongside him.

 

3-5-2? 3-4-1-2?

Don't advocate a 4-4-2 at this level in a hot summer which Russia surely will be. Subject to formation, shape Vardy and Kane could really work- I am just thinking he has the ability to drift in and out, interchanging and fluidity all that.

 That said, if we had Lallana and Wilshere in the side...midfield 3, that would really have helped Kane IMO. Technically, stylistically- problem is we don't so Southgate will have to think a bit harder I guess.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

3-5-2? 3-4-1-2?

Don't advocate a 4-4-2 at this level in a hot summer which Russia surely will be. Subject to formation, shape Vardy and Kane could really work- I am just thinking he has the ability to drift in and out, interchanging and fluidity all that.

 That said, if we had Lallana and Wilshere in the side...midfield 3, that would really have helped Kane IMO. Technically, stylistically- problem is we don't so Southgate will have to think a bit harder I guess.

Wilshere, for all his ability to break past a man, and commit his marker, doesn’t do it often enough, and I think has a very heavy touch....and I think it is that that sometimes allows him to commit his man, rather than technical skill.  The ball never seems under his control, it’s always on the stretch.  Right decision to leave him out.

A fit Lallana would be in.  The most two footed player we have, his ability to receive on either foot is so rare in an English player.  If he had the end product he’d be a major player for us.

I think in some ways it helps Southgate’s selection if he really wants to play wingbacks

[Lack of Action Man]

https://youtu.be/3EiE7eLWI_M?t=110

Too soon?

[ZiderEyed]

 

[Lack of Action Man]

7 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

 

Christ we had some epic players in that team. Seaman, Sherringham, Gazza, Shearer, Fowler, Platt...

However - the definitive video (if not lyrics) for three lions is this version, complete with custard melon World Cup and probably our only win against the Krauts since '66:

 

 

[ZiderEyed]

4 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Christ we had some epic players in that team. Seaman, Sherringham, Gazza, Shearer, Fowler, Platt...

However - the definitive video (if not lyrics) for three lions is this version, complete with custard melon World Cup and probably our only win against the Krauts since '66:

 

 

Shirt bit at 3:01 always gets me 

Wonder how many kids tried dancing in front of buses that summer?