Why so many unreliable City players ?

[Major Isewater]

LJ talks about players he can trust and I am surprised at how many I personally feel are unreliable.

Pato , world beater one week , panel beater the next . Which one will turn up ? Often weak and uninvolved in the match .

Bryan, yes one of our own , equally unreliable. Amazing player , fantastic skills but too often disappears.

Baker, rock steady or rocking useless. Questions must be asked on his mentality., too often ' injured ' or likely to have have a rush of blood to the head leading to a booking or sending off.

The list is not complete but do other clubs suffer in the same way ?

I look at Preston, for example, and the word ' solid ' comes to mind and I wonder why we can't achieve this same consistency. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

The expression "players I can trust" while I get it, troubles me a bit. Why express it publicly and so often?

Would knock my morale a bit, if I was a squad player on the fringes. Multiple squad players and you have a problem.

Quite a few played out of position or in a secondary position which plays a role too.

Paterson? A number 10, has to be. Playing him wide in a 4-4-2 is a total waste IMO. Could I guess play him as a wide forward who can drift in a 4-3-3/4-3-2-1 maybe, a secondary option worth exploring. Mainly a number 10 though.

Bryan? Can do a job at LB, but much prefer him on the left wing, left wing back or maybe the wide left of a front 3.

[Phileas Fogg]

It's not unique to us at all.

Inconsistent players like Paterson or even Bryan are at pretty much every club.. Jay Emmanuel-Thomas, David Noble, Luke Freeman, Steven Davies just to name a few of our recent ones off the top of my head..

Even at clubs like United they have problems with Pogba and consistency. 

I bet if you took a straw poll of fans of every club in the top 4 leagues they'd all name one of their players who's inconsistent.

I think what is unique to us is LJ highlighting the 'players I can trust' thing so regularly. I don't hear managers doing that very often, psychologically I don't see the benefit. Say it in private by all means, but all it does to me when he says it is paint a lot of negative connotations about LJ's man management.

[grifty]

20 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

LJ talks about players he can trust and I am surprised at how many I personally feel are unreliable.

Pato , world beater one week , panel beater the next . Which one will turn up ? Often weak and uninvolved in the match .

Bryan, yes one of our own , equally unreliable. Amazing player , fantastic skills but too often disappears.

Baker, rock steady or rocking useless. Questions must be asked on his mentality., too often ' injured ' or likely to have have a rush of blood to the head leading to a booking or sending off.

The list is not complete but do other clubs suffer in the same way ?

I look at Preston, for example, and the word ' solid ' comes to mind and I wonder why we can't achieve this same consistency. 

 

I'd have to disagree with this. 7 yellows and one red (which was a bit contentious at the time) for a centre back over a whole season is pretty good IMO.

Also, you admire Prestons solidarity - they got 6 more points than us... hardly something to aspire too. Fulham would be a better team to follow. Grinding out results whether its a draw or a win. They have pretty much the same team last year that we beat left right and centre, just with one or two key new players.

[Ivorguy]

2 minutes ago, grifty said:

I'd have to disagree with this. 7 yellows and one red (which was a bit contentious at the time) for a centre back over a whole season is pretty good IMO.

Also, you admire Prestons solidarity - they got 6 more points than us... hardly something to aspire too. Fulham would be a better team to follow. Grinding out results whether its a draw or a win. They have pretty much the same team last year that we beat left right and centre, just with one or two key new players.

That little word ‘just ‘ in your last line tells all

The difference between 11th and 2nd or 3rd

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, grifty said:

I'd have to disagree with this. 7 yellows and one red (which was a bit contentious at the time) for a centre back over a whole season is pretty good IMO.

Also, you admire Prestons solidarity - they got 6 more points than us... hardly something to aspire too. Fulham would be a better team to follow. Grinding out results whether its a draw or a win. They have pretty much the same team last year that we beat left right and centre, just with one or two key new players.

Yeah I really like this Fulham side. I think realistically we're a few years away from that, they clearly have a large wage budget and have the attraction of being a London side.

Also add in anomalies like Sessegnon breaking through which you can't really account for.

Definitely a side to aspire to be like though.

I think in the immediate term, emulating a side like Brentford would be good. Only finished marginally higher than us this season, but just seem to have things right off the pitch. Their recruitment, relative to the size of the club they are, is excellent. Great hit rate on signings. Again, there's the London factor - but surely they're a club we can compete with on fees and wages.

[Cowshed]

Your descriptive terms may reveal your expectations and perception. Players are rarely useless or amazing or weak. Its shades in between.

Solid as a FA mentor asked me is it enough in modern football? Is this what you want? It kicks it , it heads it, it does not do much else, it is limited, consistent but utterly limited.

Players contribution should be looked upon over extended periods. Flair players telling contributions and assists may appear every 3/4/5 games.

All clubs are challenged in differing manners.

When numerous players suffer seemingly a collective loss of form shouldn't deeper thought be applied than the lazy they lack leaders/are weak?  

[grifty]

2 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

That little word ‘just ‘ in your last line tells all

The difference between 11th and 2nd or 3rd

It's not really that far off. If Diony hit the ground running and could play football, kicked in 10 goals post January, we'd of been right up there.

[Andy082005]

20 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

LJ talks about players he can trust and I am surprised at how many I personally feel are unreliable.

Pato , world beater one week , panel beater the next . Which one will turn up ? Often weak and uninvolved in the match .

Bryan, yes one of our own , equally unreliable. Amazing player , fantastic skills but too often disappears.

Baker, rock steady or rocking useless. Questions must be asked on his mentality., too often ' injured ' or likely to have have a rush of blood to the head leading to a booking or sending off.

The list is not complete but do other clubs suffer in the same way ?

I look at Preston, for example, and the word ' solid ' comes to mind and I wonder why we can't achieve this same consistency. 

 

I just don't think the players care enough about the club and fans. I've said it before on here that I don't think there are many players (if any)...who actually love this club and their priority is for us to succeed. 

The club is turning into a corporate money making machine...it's almost souless at times now and the players are very much apart of that. They are treated as assets by the owners.

No loyalty in football now. They are all in it for their ownselves 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ivorguy]

1 minute ago, grifty said:

It's not really that far off. If Diony hit the ground running and could play football, kicked in 10 goals post January, we'd of been right up there.

It is not Diony I blame but those who thought he could score 10 goals

That all of course assumes we actually wanted promotion.

This is an example I am afraid of bottling it 

[The Batman]

It is all well and good having the physical ability on the football pitch. 

Successful teams however have the mental toughness - some are blessed to have both and that stems from the manager getting the best out of them.

We should not be at panic station if we concede early, the team should be able to regroup and get back into it.

Mind you, the leads we let go this season just gone was astonishing. Once I can let go, but the number of times we were ahead and drew / lost must be addressed over the summer.

That stems from the mental strength of the team. We all know they can defend.

[grifty]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Yeah I really like this Fulham side. I think realistically we're a few years away from that, they clearly have a large wage budget and have the attraction of being a London side.

Also add in anomalies like Sessegnon breaking through which you can't really account for.

Definitely a side to aspire to be like though.

I think in the immediate term, emulating a side like Brentford would be good. Only finished marginally higher than us this season, but just seem to have things right off the pitch. Their recruitment, relative to the size of the club they are, is excellent. Great hit rate on signings. Again, there's the London factor - but surely they're a club we can compete with on fees and wages.

I feel people wanting this sort of thing is not good though. According to many on here, we have had a shocking season, not allowed to mention the word progress or you get shot down as a happy clapper accepting failure, "the midget dwarf has to go, ruining the club, but lets be like a team who managed two more points than us, that would be a good season.

We should be trying to copy/emulate teams who have done it - Burnley, Huddersfield, possibly Fulham. An extra two points and signing some guy from league 2 who scores 10 goals (Watkins who a lot of people want/wanted us to get) would not be enough for many fans.

[Ivorguy]

2 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I just don't think the players care enough about the club and fans. I've said it before on here that I don't think there are many players (if any)...who actually love this club and their priority is for us to succeed. 

The club is turning into a corporate money making machine...it's almost souless at times now and the players are very much apart of that. They are treated as assets by the owners.

No loyalty in football now. They are all in it for their ownselves 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s life as it is however we hope it wasn’t

It affects all clubs

The difference is a manager/coach who overcomes any apathy, as at Cardiff and Fulham

[Coxy27]

2 minutes ago, grifty said:

I feel people wanting this sort of thing is not good though. According to many on here, we have had a shocking season, not allowed to mention the word progress or you get shot down as a happy clapper accepting failure, "the midget dwarf has to go, ruining the club, but lets be like a team who managed two more points than us, that would be a good season.

We should be trying to copy/emulate teams who have done it - Burnley, Huddersfield, possibly Fulham. An extra two points and signing some guy from league 2 who scores 10 goals (Watkins who a lot of people want/wanted us to get) would not be enough for many fans.

What's your point on Watkins?

He'd be a terrific signing, and has been for Brentford.

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 minutes ago, The Batman said:

...Mind you, the leads we let go this season just gone was astonishing. Once I can let go, but the number of times we were ahead and drew / lost must be addressed over the summer.....

We’ve done this consistently under LJ though...not just during the season just ended. In the season before we were 0-3 up at Derby and drew, 0-2 up at Newcastle and drew, 2-0 up against Reading and lost etc......and then the debacles last season against Sunderland, Leeds, Hull etc etc....

[Sixtyseconds]

21 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

When numerous players suffer seemingly a collective loss of form shouldn't deeper thought be applied than the lazy they lack leaders/are weak?  

When numerous players suffer seemingly a collective loss of form each season ... 

[Ivorguy]

3 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

When numerous players suffer seemingly a collective loss of form each season ... 

Agree 100%

That is why I have long advocated an external enquiry to get to the bottom of it

[BobBobSuperBob]

31 minutes ago, grifty said:

It's not really that far off. If Diony hit the ground running and could play football, kicked in 10 goals post January, we'd of been right up there.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that , for months , we looked like a team of trialists thrown together

[Cowshed]

11 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

When numerous players suffer seemingly a collective loss of form each season ... 

When these losses of form coincide with the same Manager in charge? Scrutinise what the Manager and his coaches are doing. 

Question. After 2.5 years can people describe what type of football and team Mr Johnsons wants? After six months what type of football did Neil Warnock's team play?

Perceptions of weakness, unreliability can be laid at the door of Managers who do not know what football they want.

The team is a reflection of Lee Johnson.

 

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

That is why I have long advocated an external enquiry to get to the bottom of it

and what would be the benefit of that?  Accept the things you cannot change.

[Sixtyseconds]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

and what would be the benefit of that?  Accept the things you cannot change.

Do you really think Bristol City play like Man City?

[Phileas Fogg]

28 minutes ago, grifty said:

I feel people wanting this sort of thing is not good though. According to many on here, we have had a shocking season, not allowed to mention the word progress or you get shot down as a happy clapper accepting failure, "the midget dwarf has to go, ruining the club, but lets be like a team who managed two more points than us, that would be a good season.

We should be trying to copy/emulate teams who have done it - Burnley, Huddersfield, possibly Fulham. An extra two points and signing some guy from league 2 who scores 10 goals (Watkins who a lot of people want/wanted us to get) would not be enough for many fans.

I don't mean in league position necessarily, but I believe in the principle of gradual progression and not overstretching. Brentford are a club i'd like us to emulate in recruitment to get closer to clubs like Fulham. 

As January showed, there's still a gap between us and clubs like Fulham. They were able to pay for Mitrovic and we weren't. We can't close that immediately, it'll take a few years.

I think Brighton is a good model for us to follow, similar situations really. New ground/redeveloped ground - similar demographic in the city, potentially similar attendances. Took them a few years to get promotion.

[Sixtyseconds]

70's punk.

Do you look in the mirror.

Do you see yourself. 

Identity is the crisis cant you see.

Lines that could have been written for lee Johnsons Bristol City.

 

 

 

[The Bard]

It's a reflection of the manager. His performances are either really good or shambolic. For example, QPR at home was outstanding reading of a game, adapting to being down to 10 men and the team played with clarity and won the game comfortably. 

2 weeks later we get the Sunderland debacle "I was going for it 2nd half" by taking Bobby Reid off? Really? He gets carried away with himself and loses the plot. It then takes ages for him to recover. In this time team selections make little sense, players lose confidence and results suffer. 

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Do you really think Bristol City play like Man City?

?    What's that got do with unreliable players? 

[Sixtyseconds]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

?    What's that got do with unreliable players? 

Lots.

If you really thought like that once.

And you did

You would have a jolt later.

Bit like the players.

Inconsistent Manager.

Inconsistent tactics.

Performance suffers.

Like boxing?

Imagine being told to go out like Ali one round.

Round two ahh **** it just go in windmillin Son ... 

Round three umm not working lets go Southpaw now.

Clever ones on here pointed out you cant prepare for football like that properly.

[screech]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

When these losses of form coincide with the same Manager in charge? Scrutinise what the Manager and his coaches are doing. 

Question. After 2.5 years can people describe what type of football and team Mr Johnsons wants? After six months what type of football did Neil Warnock's team play?

Perceptions of weakness, unreliability can be laid at the door of Managers who do not know what football they want.

The team is a reflection of Lee Johnson.

 

Bang on, the inconsistency in the message across the season reflects the results. 

The manager sets the tone for the dressing room, if you are not in that side who is a player he can trust, why should you think next week when you are in the side that you are trusted. 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Like boxing?

Imagine being told to go out like Ali one round.

Round two ahh **** it just go in windmillin Son ... 

Round three umm not working lets go Southpaw now.

Never understood boxing. Can't say I see why two blokes would want to punch each other trying to do as much damage as possible and try for a knockout. It's way too brutal for my taste. I can't see any skill in it.

Why it's called a sport is lost on me.

[wendyredredrobin]

All players can have off days just like anyone else. Some days we all don't feel that great.  Some may be carrying injuries - Once you get a groin strain or a hamstring goes, you can carry that for months and it often tweaks again and again.  Formations change and some may play out of position or they find that they play well with another player who is not in the side or in a different position for whatever reason. Tactics play a part too. Some may not look so good if they are just playing to orders.

In our case the extent of our drop in form after Christmas is quite mysterious as is why Lee doesn't seem to have a handle on it.

[Phileas Fogg]

27 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Never understood boxing. Can't say I see why two blokes would want to punch each other trying to do as much damage as possible and try for a knockout. It's way too brutal for my taste. I can't see any skill in it.

Why it's called a sport is lost on me.

I know I shouldn't take the bait.. but surely even someone who doesn't appreciate boxing can see the skill here