How much money can we invest in the squad?

[reddogkev]

Just wondering, what will be our likely war chest this summer?  Are we in a position to invest, say £10million, or will we breach FFP?

And if we do sell a Flint, Bryan or Reid for several million - will it all go back to the transfer kitty?

I often dream of a fantasy summer where SL bankrolls signings and salaries to the tune of millions and millions, and other fans moan about City buying the league (this is just a fantasy)! I'd expect the board and SL to make a decent amount of money available to LJ, and feel £10 or £12 million shouldn't be too far off what we can splash.  Hope they get cracking early though, it will drive season ticket sales through the roof.

Will we break the transfer record we set with Famara last summer?

 

[GrahamC]

I think we will spend around what we generate.

So at present absolutely nothing, but after the sales of Magnússon, then presumably Bryan and whoever else leaves (in order of probability I’d say Reid, Fielding, Flint, & Pack) then that will be added to the pot.

[Eddie Hitler]

I'd be very tempted to do what was possible within FFP restrictions because that money comes back if you go up; £95m TV money for one season and then £75m parachute payments means £170m extra revenue even if you get relegated in the first season.

Mind if you are going to spend big to get it you do need to actually go up or you have just dug yourself into a hole. Eh Villa?

 

 

http://www.cityam.com/286239/play-off-final-prize-money-2018-heres-much-fulham-and-aston

[123red1]

I think realistically without any outgoings, SL would probably happily invest 4-5m in the right players, because the ground does more functions earning more money now, we get around 6m a year from the EFL and we have some good revenues from last season and season ticket sales have been good. But I don't think it would be on big named players, it would more likely be on 2/3 players with strong selling on value.

With Flint, Bryan, Reid & Mags sold, I can see us recouping 15-20m from the sale of those four players and therefore I wouldn't be surprised to see us make 4/5 permanent signings, and a couple of high profile loans. I wouldn't be surprised if those went to see 1-2 circa £5m players and then a couple of younger types at 1-2m.

I can't see us going out and spending 10-12m on a player, as it would be very hard to make a profit on that sort of player unless you walked the league, and they were a key player and then they proved themselves in the prem, which realistically is too much a gamble. I think Fammy with an injury free season and 15-20 goals next year, at the age of 26, could easily be sold for 10-12m next summer. He's had a good first season interrupted by injury and this season is crucial to him, SL will want to see paying 5.3m for him was good business with a view to selling at a profit and a good season for him will secure this. If our recruitment team prove with Fammy we can spend 5-6m on a player and within 2/3 years sell at a profit, I don't think Lansdown would be reluctant to make similar signings of that ilk on a more regular basis. 

[Robbored]

Although it looks certain that Flint, Bryan and Reid have attracted interest from other clubs we fans don't actually know for sure let alone how much revenue their sales might raise. 

As in every silly season we see lots of wid speculation and rumour from social media and the press but it's all just that - wild speculation and rumour. Nothing is certain yet. It's only 100% certain when it's announced on the OS.

Of course SL will have given his strategy plans to MA and LJ but as yet even they have no idea how much income is likely so to ask how much of it will be reinvested is a all a bit pointless.

At a guess, I'd say all of any potential income from player sales will be available to reinvest probably with a bit more from SLs stash as long as it falls within the FFP regulations.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

22 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Although it looks certain that Flint, Bryan and Reid have attracted interest from other clubs we fans don't actually know for sure let alone how much revenue their sales might raise. 

As in every silly season we see lots of wild speculation and rumour from social media and the press but it's all just that - wild speculation and rumour. Nothing is certain yet. It's only 100% certain when it's announced on the OS.

Of course SL will have given his strategy plans to MA and LJ but as yet even they have no idea how much income is likely so to ask how much of it will be reinvested is a all a bit pointless.

At a guess, I'd say all of any potential income from player sales will be available to reinvest probably with a bit more from SLs stash as long as it falls within the FFP regulations.

 

When does "speculation" become "wild speculation"? How does one differentiate?

[BobBobSuperBob]

I didn’t think it was possible to compose a post of 160 words and four paragraphs whilst actually saying

..................absolutely nothing .....

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

When does "speculation" become "wild speculation"? How does one differentiate?

Replace "wild" with ridiculous/unfounded/wishful - take your pick!

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I didn’t think it was possible to compose a post of 160 words and four paragraphs whilst actually saying

..................absolutely nothing .....

You don't understand it Bob?  

Unfortunately not even I could make it any simpler.

[reddogkev]

43 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Although it looks certain that Flint, Bryan and Reid have attracted interest from other clubs we fans don't actually know for sure let alone how much revenue their sales might raise. 

As in every silly season we see lots of wid speculation and rumour from social media and the press but it's all just that - wild speculation and rumour. Nothing is certain yet. It's only 100% certain when it's announced on the OS.

Of course SL will have given his strategy plans to MA and LJ but as yet even they have no idea how much income is likely so to ask how much of it will be reinvested is a all a bit pointless.

At a guess, I'd say all of any potential income from player sales will be available to reinvest probably with a bit more from SLs stash as long as it falls within the FFP regulations.

 

But how much more can we expect from SL's stash?  And where does he keep this stash, underneath the mattress?

[downendcity]

Whatever we can afford to invest in the squad will almost be certainly far less than many fans think we should.

[reddogkev]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I think we will spend around what we generate.

So at present absolutely nothing, but after the sales of Magnússon, then presumably Bryan and whoever else leaves (in order of probability I’d say Reid, Fielding, Flint, & Pack) then that will be added to the pot.

I'd be disappointed if we didn't invest anything else on top of transfer incomings.  It would show a lack of ambition to make the top six.

With all the commercial strides the club are making, cup progress last season, plus the lucrative Dunder sponsor, it makes me think we will have a few extra million to throw around (if the right players are found).  I say this every summer, but I'd love to know if SL considers spending more money than usual to make a concerted push for the top.  Provided the players can be sold for either the same money or make a return, it isn't a big risk.

On the other hand, we could have paid millions last summer for Diony, and lost every pound - or even more - if we needed to pay someone to take him off our hands.

3 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Whatever we can afford to invest in the squad will almost be certainly far less than many fans think we should.

Any reasons why?

[downendcity]

2 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Any reasons why?

Despite the Villa situation , and numerous posts on the issue of financial rules over the last year or so, it seems to me that many fans still expect that because SL is a billionaire ( plus bit more) we should be able to buy whoever we want.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Somebody will correct me if I’ve misunderstood but If we sell Engvall (Or anyone else) at a loss then that loss goes against us in FFP terms

( @Mr Popodopolous you seem to have a deep understanding of FFP - Is that right ?)

(I see Villa fans saying that FFP wise the6 are better paying McCormack £40k a week for another two years than take a big hit on the fee)

[View from the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Somebody will correct me if I’ve misunderstood but If we sell Engvall (Or anyone else) at a loss then that loss goes against us in FFP terms

( @Mr Popodopolous you seem to have a deep understanding of FFP - Is that right ?)

(I see Villa fans saying that FFP wise the6 are better paying McCormack £40k a week for another two years than take a big hit on the fee)

Don't forget though that the recorded value of the asset (i.e. the player's registration) will be amortised over the duration of the contract signed. So Engvall's value in the books won't be the fee paid for him when signed by the club.

e.g.  say a player for £4m on a 4 year contract.

After 1 year, he's recorded as being worth £3m. 

After 2 years, he's recorded as being worth £2m. 

After 3 years, he's recorded as being worth £1m. Sell him now for £2m and you've made a £1m profit on a disposal of your asset.

After 4 years, he's recorded as being worth £0 - even if he signs an extension.

[123red1]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Somebody will correct me if I’ve misunderstood but If we sell Engvall (Or anyone else) at a loss then that loss goes against us in FFP terms

( @Mr Popodopolous you seem to have a deep understanding of FFP - Is that right ?)

(I see Villa fans saying that FFP wise the6 are better paying McCormack £40k a week for another two years than take a big hit on the fee)

Which is why we prob won't sell him at a loss. We will probably loan him out for x amount for the season (say 750K) with an agreement he can be purchased for 1.25m anytime during the loan, therefore not making a loss. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Don't forget though that the recorded value of the asset (i.e. the player's registration) will be amortised over the duration of the contract signed. So Engvall's value in the books won't be the fee paid for him when signed by the club.

e.g.  say a player for £4m on a 4 year contract.

After 1 year, he's recorded as being worth £3m. 

After 2 years, he's recorded as being worth £2m. 

After 3 years, he's recorded as being worth £1m. Sell him now for £2m and you've made a £1m profit on a disposal of your asset.

After 4 years, he's recorded as being worth £0 - even if he signs an extension.

Thanks

Makes sense and useful and easy to understand in the way you’ve explained it

[reddogkev]

28 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Somebody will correct me if I’ve misunderstood but If we sell Engvall (Or anyone else) at a loss then that loss goes against us in FFP terms

( @Mr Popodopolous you seem to have a deep understanding of FFP - Is that right ?)

(I see Villa fans saying that FFP wise the6 are better paying McCormack £40k a week for another two years than take a big hit on the fee)

Interesting to think though that if we sell Bobby Reid, who has not cost us anything in terms of transfer fees, he would cover all potential losses on Engvall and anyone else we want to try to offload on the cheap.  The extra few million could then be used to strengthen with clever signings, and not punts on untested foreign players like Engvall.

 

[reddogkev]

36 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Despite the Villa situation , and numerous posts on the issue of financial rules over the last year or so, it seems to me that many fans still expect that because SL is a billionaire ( plus bit more) we should be able to buy whoever we want.

 

I don't recall anyone stating that we should be able to buy anyone we like, although I don't read the transfer forum, so not sure if unreasonable targets are mentioned on those pages.

[JBFC II]

2 hours ago, 123red1 said:

I think realistically without any outgoings, SL would probably happily invest 4-5m in the right players, because the ground does more functions earning more money now, we get around 6m a year from the EFL and we have some good revenues from last season and season ticket sales have been good. But I don't think it would be on big named players, it would more likely be on 2/3 players with strong selling on value.

With Flint, Bryan, Reid & Mags sold, I can see us recouping 15-20m from the sale of those four players and therefore I wouldn't be surprised to see us make 4/5 permanent signings, and a couple of high profile loans. I wouldn't be surprised if those went to see 1-2 circa £5m players and then a couple of younger types at 1-2m.

I can't see us going out and spending 10-12m on a player, as it would be very hard to make a profit on that sort of player unless you walked the league, and they were a key player and then they proved themselves in the prem, which realistically is too much a gamble. I think Fammy with an injury free season and 15-20 goals next year, at the age of 26, could easily be sold for 10-12m next summer. He's had a good first season interrupted by injury and this season is crucial to him, SL will want to see paying 5.3m for him was good business with a view to selling at a profit and a good season for him will secure this. If our recruitment team prove with Fammy we can spend 5-6m on a player and within 2/3 years sell at a profit, I don't think Lansdown would be reluctant to make similar signings of that ilk on a more regular basis. 

Personally I'd be extremely disappointed if we only got 15 mill for Flint Bryan Reid and Magnússon, if mags goes for about 2 mill thats just over 4 mill for the other 3, which in my opinion would be awful business from our end... 

[GrahamC]

41 minutes ago, 123red1 said:

Which is why we prob won't sell him at a loss. We will probably loan him out for x amount for the season (say 750K) with an agreement he can be purchased for 1.25m anytime during the loan, therefore not making a loss. 

There is no way on earth we will get anywhere near our money back on Engvall, (even your figures here are wildly optimistic), therefore we will sell him at a loss..

My guess is we’d struggle to get more than £250k for him now.

[123red1]

6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

There is no way on earth we will get anywhere near our money back on Engvall, (even your figures here are wildly optimistic), therefore we will sell him at a loss..

My guess is we’d struggle to get more than £250k for him now.

250k for a Swedish international with goals in their top division ??? Behave , a number of league one clubs would pay 500-750k for him at least. 

[123red1]

8 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Personally I'd be extremely disappointed if we only got 15 mill for Flint Bryan Reid and Magnússon, if mags goes for about 2 mill thats just over 4 mill for the other 3, which in my opinion would be awful business from our end... 

I said 15-20 fwiw.

I would reckon, Mags £2.5m , Flint £5m, Reid £5m and Bryan £6m which makes it 18.5m which would be decent enough. 

[ZiderEyed]

2 minutes ago, 123red1 said:

I said 15-20 fwiw.

I would reckon, Mags £2.5m , Flint £5m, Reid £5m and Bryan £6m which makes it 18.5m which would be decent enough. 

If Flint goes it'll be for far more than £5m imv. 

[JBFC II]

4 minutes ago, 123red1 said:

I said 15-20 fwiw.

I would reckon, Mags £2.5m , Flint £5m, Reid £5m and Bryan £6m which makes it 18.5m which would be decent enough. 

Flint and Reid will go for more than 5 million and Bryan for more than 6 I'd imagine, 6 for Flint, 8 for Bryan and 10 for Reid would be good business in my opinion. Even though Reid has a year left we have to be looking at around 10 million otherwise we are better off keeping him for another season

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, JBFC II said:

Flint and Reid will go for more than 5 million and Bryan for more than 6 I'd imagine, 6 for Flint, 8 for Bryan and 10 for Reid would be good business in my opinion. Even though Reid has a year left we have to be looking at around 10 million otherwise we are better off keeping him for another season

Personally reckon transfer figures like this are going out the window, but I'd imagine overall the fees would be something like:

- Flint £8m

- Bryan £6m w/ fees for international appearances etc.

- Reid £5-6m

To get £20m from these three would represent really good business and give us enough to actually rebuild the core of our team *cough*MARRIOTT*cough*

[downendcity]

36 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

I don't recall anyone stating that we should be able to buy anyone we like, although I don't read the transfer forum, so not sure if unreasonable targets are mentioned on those pages.

It's not that we should not be able to buy whoever we want, but that some fans think we should be able to do so whatever the fee and wages involved.

[fatchers]

Bryan's performances since the cup run ended have not been good enough to suggest we could get more than 5 mil. I only hope SL or JL don't read the constant slagging and abuse they get from some of our fellow 'supporters' on here before SL decides to slash His cash.

[Monkeh]

49 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

I don't recall anyone stating that we should be able to buy anyone we like, although I don't read the transfer forum, so not sure if unreasonable targets are mentioned on those pages.

plenty of posters say lansdown needs to get the checkbook out every season or acuse him of doing things on the cheap, while he continues to fund the club and writes of the loses as well as build us a stadium and training ground and fund the academy,

Sadly lansdown could give johnson a warchest of £100 million and people would be demanding 200 million 

[Monkeh]

27 minutes ago, 123red1 said:

I said 15-20 fwiw.

I would reckon, Mags £2.5m , Flint £5m, Reid £5m and Bryan £6m which makes it 18.5m which would be decent enough. 

double that for flint he's just signed a new contract