Lansdown - Wilson departure in 2004

[headhunter]

Danny Wilson became manager in June 2000 after what was the debacle 1999-2000 season [Pulis, Fawthrop].

OK, this was in League 1 [Div. 2 back then] but those may remember we played some great stuff over 4 complete seasons each time the next being an improvement on the last: 9th, 7th, 3rd [lost in play off semi], 3rd [lost in play off final]. He was in charge for 226 games and had a win rate of 47.5%.

Lansdown did not renew his contract in June 2004. I seem to recall Wilson saying after the play off defeat to Brighton, "defeat is not failure". Within days Lansdown effectively wielded his axe. You might all find this next passage makes for interesting reading. The average tenure of a City manager I picked off from one stats page is 124 games [LJ is on 110]. I really hope we get something at Loftus Road but I think the storm clouds are gathering.

Steve Lansdown today backed Brian Tinnion to deliver the promotion Danny Wilson failed to achieve at Bristol City and said: "I think he can be the making of this club." And the Ashton Gate chairman confirmed that the decision to part company with Wilson came after the manager resisted moves to make cutbacks in the backroom staff following their defeat to Brighton in the Division Two play-off final.

 

News broke late on Friday night that Wilson had been sacked. In a frank interview, Lansdown revealed the sequence of events that led to midfielder Tinnion being unveiled as City's new manager barely 24 hours later.

 

He said: "Friday was a funny day because things had been brewing since the final at Cardiff. Danny was on holiday and we'd had the odd conversation, but nothing in any real depth.

 

"But things needed to be sorted out because losing at Cardiff changed the whole perspective of the club. It has affected our finances and we had to address how we were going to move forward.

 

"It means some painful decisions throughout the club and Danny was finding that difficult to accept.

 

"I could feel at that point that maybe a bit of a barrier was going to be built up between us which hadn't ever been there before - and that was a danger signal to me."

 

Cost-cutting was inevitable after City's Millennium Stadium flop, but Wilson is thought to have argued in favour of keeping psychologist Brian Jones, who has now left the club along with former physiotherapist and kitman Buster Footman, who has retired.

 

There is also uncertainty over the future of Wilson's No 2, Frank Barlow.

 

"Like any manager, you have your infrastructure and people around you and you fight hard to keep them," said Lansdown.

 

"I think Danny felt decisions were being taken without due consultation, but the simple fact is that we can't afford to keep them. It wasn't a case of sitting down and discussing whether we could or not - we simply couldn't afford it.

 

"I could see the arguments getting worse not better as we progressed towards the new season, but they were decisions that had to be taken.

 

"In the end it boiled down to Danny asking that if things were going to change, could they change now rather than being left to drag on.

 

"In the end we got the board to sit down to discuss it on Friday afternoon and decided this was the opportune time for all concerned to make a change.

 

"Danny's very pragmatic and obviously, though he doesn't like losing his position, he understands the decision and accepts it. Now it's a question of sorting out the termination and we will go our separate ways and be friends in the future."

 

Tinnion only knew of Wilson's departure on Friday evening and Lansdown added: "I phoned Brian late on Friday to ask him what time he was going down to the ground on Saturday for the supporters' forum game (the annual match between fans of City and Bristol Rovers).

 

"He said about 1pm and I asked him if he could make it about 9.30am because I wanted to interview him for the manager's job. Then the line went dead! But it must have sunk in eventually because then I heard him say: 'I'll be there'.

 

"We knew he was keen to be the manager of Bristol City because he's made that clear in the past.

 

"We felt it was the right time to sit down and talk about giving him the opportunity. We wanted to hear about how he wants to run things, what tactics he plans to use, how he feels about the existing squad and his terms of contract.

 

"We had always had a contingency plan should anything have happened, like having your manager poached midway through a season. We always felt that if that came about, we would look at the possibility of putting Brian in charge.

 

"It wasn't a difficult decision to make, but we wanted to hear from him that he still wanted to do it - and we were very comforted by what we heard.

 

"I have high hopes that this could be the making of Bristol City. Before we appointed Danny we were thinking about looking internally.

 

"Brian was one of those people we considered but he wasn't quite ready, but this is four years on and, with the knowledge and experience he has of this division, he's ready for it now."

 

Lansdown pre-empted accusations that City had gone for a "cheap option" by saying: "This is the difficult option. People may perceive it as the cheap one and it's easy to pander to the view that we should have advertised and then had lots of names of people we might have been interested in floating around. But this was the tough decision, going for somebody without managerial experience - although I'm convinced it's the right one.

 

"It's always a gamble when you give someone their first chance in management, but you could quote the example of Danny Wilson when he was at Barnsley.

 

"Andy Hessenthaler has done an excellent job at Gillingham and Paul Jewell came out of the backroom staff at Bradford City, so there are plenty of examples of people who have had no real managerial experience but have done very well.

 

"Brian will get experience as he goes and I'm sure he'll make a few mistakes on the way, but we will work with him to help him make it a success.

 

"He's as keen as we are that we get promotion and he's not come in to ask for a couple of years' grace while we get things sorted out.

 

"Things don't need sorting out greatly here - we have a good set-up, a good infrastructure, and Brian knows it well. He can take it on and improve it.

 

"He has his own ideas about how he wants people to behave and train as well as the playing and tactics side. But it won't be a question of upsetting the whole apple cart and starting again, more a case of building on what we have already got."

 

As for further restructuring behind the scenes, Lansdown added: "We will be looking at the situation with the backroom staff over the next couple of weeks, but I can't comment further because people are either away on holiday or haven't been spoken to.

 

"We have thoughts about how things are going to pan out, but I can't go into details at the moment."

[BS15_RED]

Interesting comparison, however I don’t think SL will consider wielding the axe yet. Remember 16 months or so ago when LJ was under intense pressure after the 0-5 defeat at Preston, SL was reseloute in his support of him.

I reckon he’ll give him at least until we’re 10 games into the season before he considers taking any action. One thing is certain, whatever business we do before the deadline will be absolutely pivotal to how this season pans out.

[ScottishRed]

4 minutes ago, BS15_RED said:

Interesting comparison, however I don’t think SL will consider wielding the axe yet. Remember 16 months or so ago when LJ was under intense pressure after the 0-5 defeat at Preston, SL was reseloute in his support of him.

I reckon he’ll give him at least until we’re 10 games into the season before he considers taking any action. One thing is certain, whatever business we do before the deadline will be absolutely pivotal to how this season pans out.

Of course he won't, LJ is going nowhere.

I agree with your point about business before the deadline - my real fear is that we won't be doing any.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, BS15_RED said:

Interesting comparison, however I don’t think SL will consider wielding the axe yet. Remember 16 months or so ago when LJ was under intense pressure after the 0-5 defeat at Preston, SL was reseloute in his support of him.

I reckon he’ll give him at least until we’re 10 games into the season before he considers taking any action. One thing is certain, whatever business we do before the deadline will be absolutely pivotal to how this season pans out.

I reckon there will be no more than 1 player brought in, but I fully expect it to be zilch.

[Major Isewater]

40 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Danny Wilson became manager in June 2000 after what was the debacle 1999-2000 season [Pulis, Fawthrop].

OK, this was in League 1 [Div. 2 back then] but those may remember we played some great stuff over 4 complete seasons each time the next being an improvement on the last: 9th, 7th, 3rd [lost in play off semi], 3rd [lost in play off final]. He was in charge for 226 games and had a win rate of 47.5%.

Lansdown did not renew his contract in June 2004. I seem to recall Wilson saying after the play off defeat to Brighton, "defeat is not failure". Within days Lansdown effectively wielded his axe. You might all find this next passage makes for interesting reading. The average tenure of a City manager I picked off from one stats page is 124 games [LJ is on 110]. I really hope we get something at Loftus Road but I think the storm clouds are gathering.

Steve Lansdown today backed Brian Tinnion to deliver the promotion Danny Wilson failed to achieve at Bristol City and said: "I think he can be the making of this club." And the Ashton Gate chairman confirmed that the decision to part company with Wilson came after the manager resisted moves to make cutbacks in the backroom staff following their defeat to Brighton in the Division Two play-off final.

 

News broke late on Friday night that Wilson had been sacked. In a frank interview, Lansdown revealed the sequence of events that led to midfielder Tinnion being unveiled as City's new manager barely 24 hours later.

 

He said: "Friday was a funny day because things had been brewing since the final at Cardiff. Danny was on holiday and we'd had the odd conversation, but nothing in any real depth.

 

"But things needed to be sorted out because losing at Cardiff changed the whole perspective of the club. It has affected our finances and we had to address how we were going to move forward.

 

"It means some painful decisions throughout the club and Danny was finding that difficult to accept.

 

"I could feel at that point that maybe a bit of a barrier was going to be built up between us which hadn't ever been there before - and that was a danger signal to me."

 

Cost-cutting was inevitable after City's Millennium Stadium flop, but Wilson is thought to have argued in favour of keeping psychologist Brian Jones, who has now left the club along with former physiotherapist and kitman Buster Footman, who has retired.

 

There is also uncertainty over the future of Wilson's No 2, Frank Barlow.

 

"Like any manager, you have your infrastructure and people around you and you fight hard to keep them," said Lansdown.

 

"I think Danny felt decisions were being taken without due consultation, but the simple fact is that we can't afford to keep them. It wasn't a case of sitting down and discussing whether we could or not - we simply couldn't afford it.

 

"I could see the arguments getting worse not better as we progressed towards the new season, but they were decisions that had to be taken.

 

"In the end it boiled down to Danny asking that if things were going to change, could they change now rather than being left to drag on.

 

"In the end we got the board to sit down to discuss it on Friday afternoon and decided this was the opportune time for all concerned to make a change.

 

"Danny's very pragmatic and obviously, though he doesn't like losing his position, he understands the decision and accepts it. Now it's a question of sorting out the termination and we will go our separate ways and be friends in the future."

 

Tinnion only knew of Wilson's departure on Friday evening and Lansdown added: "I phoned Brian late on Friday to ask him what time he was going down to the ground on Saturday for the supporters' forum game (the annual match between fans of City and Bristol Rovers).

 

"He said about 1pm and I asked him if he could make it about 9.30am because I wanted to interview him for the manager's job. Then the line went dead! But it must have sunk in eventually because then I heard him say: 'I'll be there'.

 

"We knew he was keen to be the manager of Bristol City because he's made that clear in the past.

 

"We felt it was the right time to sit down and talk about giving him the opportunity. We wanted to hear about how he wants to run things, what tactics he plans to use, how he feels about the existing squad and his terms of contract.

 

"We had always had a contingency plan should anything have happened, like having your manager poached midway through a season. We always felt that if that came about, we would look at the possibility of putting Brian in charge.

 

"It wasn't a difficult decision to make, but we wanted to hear from him that he still wanted to do it - and we were very comforted by what we heard.

 

"I have high hopes that this could be the making of Bristol City. Before we appointed Danny we were thinking about looking internally.

 

"Brian was one of those people we considered but he wasn't quite ready, but this is four years on and, with the knowledge and experience he has of this division, he's ready for it now."

 

Lansdown pre-empted accusations that City had gone for a "cheap option" by saying: "This is the difficult option. People may perceive it as the cheap one and it's easy to pander to the view that we should have advertised and then had lots of names of people we might have been interested in floating around. But this was the tough decision, going for somebody without managerial experience - although I'm convinced it's the right one.

 

"It's always a gamble when you give someone their first chance in management, but you could quote the example of Danny Wilson when he was at Barnsley.

 

"Andy Hessenthaler has done an excellent job at Gillingham and Paul Jewell came out of the backroom staff at Bradford City, so there are plenty of examples of people who have had no real managerial experience but have done very well.

 

"Brian will get experience as he goes and I'm sure he'll make a few mistakes on the way, but we will work with him to help him make it a success.

 

"He's as keen as we are that we get promotion and he's not come in to ask for a couple of years' grace while we get things sorted out.

 

"Things don't need sorting out greatly here - we have a good set-up, a good infrastructure, and Brian knows it well. He can take it on and improve it.

 

"He has his own ideas about how he wants people to behave and train as well as the playing and tactics side. But it won't be a question of upsetting the whole apple cart and starting again, more a case of building on what we have already got."

 

As for further restructuring behind the scenes, Lansdown added: "We will be looking at the situation with the backroom staff over the next couple of weeks, but I can't comment further because people are either away on holiday or haven't been spoken to.

 

"We have thoughts about how things are going to pan out, but I can't go into details at the moment."

What shouts to me is that SL made footballing decisions without the man who had just delivered an , albeit losing , play off final.

Ok it's SL's plaything but it appears that the manager was not involved in the discussions and that is terrible management.

Interferring owners are difficult to work with for managers .

Hopefully SL has learned from jos lessons.

[myol'man]

Hope we don't get spanked 7-1 at Swansea on Saturday 

[BS15_RED]

That’s my main concern too, I’ve got a feeling that LJ is putting all his eggs in one basket in hoping that Fam will make all the difference when he returns. 

I also think Mark Ashton is getting off rather lightly too. The recruitment over the last two transfer windows has been no where near good enough.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

What shouts to me is that SL made footballing decisions without the man who had just delivered an , albeit losing , play off final.

Ok it's SL's plaything but it appears that the manager was not involved in the discussions and that is terrible management.

Interferring owners are difficult to work with for managers .

Hopefully SL has learned from jos lessons.

Rumour has it that Cotts told him not to come into the dressing room before games.

[Major Isewater]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Rumour has it that Cotts told him not to come into the dressing room before games.

That went well for Cotts .

 

3 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Hope we don't get spanked 7-1 at Swansea on Saturday 

Or do you ? 

[B block]

2 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Hope we don't get spanked 7-1 at Swansea on Saturday 

Whereas that was the end for tinnion, I don’t think it would be for Johnson, I actually think we could lose 8-0 and he’d still be here, all the talk of him going is irrelevant, he’s being backed to the hilt and like it or not he’s going no where 

[22A]

I THINK (dunno if true), that DW was expected to deliver promotion in 2003-04. During the final league game of the season, the East End chanted "Danny, Danny give us a wave". other scores from around the country were coming in and it was known City would have to enter the P/Os and not go up automatically.

Danny did wave, but he was not smiling. I think, he realised he had failed and assumed what was coming.

[ScottishRed]

7 minutes ago, BS15_RED said:

That’s my main concern too, I’ve got a feeling that LJ is putting all his eggs in one basket in hoping that Fam will make all the difference when he returns. 

I also think Mark Ashton is getting off rather lightly too. The recruitment over the last two transfer windows has been no where near good enough.

I think you may well be correct.

At the risk of repeating myself.....again.......we played by far our best football last season when Fam was unavailable!

[oldstandrobin]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Rumour has it that Cotts told him not to come into the dressing room before games.

Dave. I think the same happened with Cloughie when he was at Derby County, and Sam Longson in some ways can be compared with SL. The rest is history.

[YorkshireSection]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Rumour has it that Cotts told him not to come into the dressing room before games.

The thought of him doing that, with Lee all nervous giggles makes me want to wretch!

[Loosey Boy]

If we don’t make any signings before the window closes, based on what LJ said on Saturday, think it will be the beginning of the end for him!

[Red Exile]

28 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Hope we don't get spanked 7-1 at Swansea on Saturday 

it had occurred to me!

[maxjak]

30 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Hope we don't get spanked 7-1 at Swansea on Saturday 

Remember it well...............even though I've tried hard to forget it.  Didn't Tinman stay in the dugout for an excessive amount of time, post match?.....almost unwilling to leave, Or am I imagining that? 

[Antman]

34 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

What shouts to me is that SL made footballing decisions without the man who had just delivered an , albeit losing , play off final.

Ok it's SL's plaything but it appears that the manager was not involved in the discussions and that is terrible management.

Interferring owners are difficult to work with for managers .

Hopefully SL has learned from jos lessons.

i feel he hasn't changed.

Coppell insinuated as much (re interference and the job not being the one he thought it was).so did Mcinnes and  Cotterill also fell foul of SL's 'total obedience' top down decision making.

LJ's appointment felt quite cyclical in as much as it was the next best thing to appointing an internal (yes) man as Tinnions appointment.

We seem to go in these cycles where a spell of purse loosening and spending is followed by a panic and a sell off and a transfer lockdown - Think post Benny!! and Tiny Penis (shudders!!)

the common denominator is SL - i really think we need a better board who can temper his 'its my party' mentality.

 

and before the deluge of 'what a brilliant chairman he is' responses,  I think in relation to some of the nutjobs out there, yes, he is a preferable option - but he isn't the bleedin' messiah....

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Remember it well...............even though I've tried hard to forget it.  Didn't Tinman stay in the dugout for an excessive amount of time, post match?.....almost unwilling to leave, Or am I imagining that? 

exactly that - he sat there for ages. he knew that was it for him.

 

[Will Rollason]

35 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

I think you may well be correct.

At the risk of repeating myself.....again.......we played by far our best football last season when Fam was unavailable!

In fact, even though i like Fam and he's decent enough, our poor run coincided with him coming back and switching away from the system that had done us so well. Not Blaming him BTW... i like him... just saying..

 

[myol'man]

6 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Remember it well...............even though I've tried hard to forget it.  Didn't Tinman stay in the dugout for an excessive amount of time, post match?.....almost unwilling to leave, Or am I imagining that? 

Yep, it was a bubble match so City's fans were kept in for ages. It was just us and Tins alone together

[Will Rollason]

7 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Remember it well...............even though I've tried hard to forget it.  Didn't Tinman stay in the dugout for an excessive amount of time, post match?.....almost unwilling to leave, Or am I imagining that? 

Felt so sorry for him. Proper City player as well.. pleased he's back in the fold though

[maxjak]

1 minute ago, Will Rollason said:

Felt so sorry for him. Proper City player as well.. pleased he's back in the fold though

Yep.....it was sad, embarrasing and regrettable. Good to see he's bounced back, and is doing invaluable work for BCFC.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Personally I think that if this season was to go pear shaped

and (god help us) we were relegated 

 

SL will step back and hand the reigns over to Jon 

[Ivorguy]

Perhaps Tinnion is being lined up as the cheap option for a second go

I feel sick having read all the above. Not because it's new information but because it is sadly relevant.

SL is the problem, not the solution, in the recruitment and retention of good managers.

[exAtyeoMax]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Personally I think that if this season was to go pear shaped

and (god help us) we were relegated 

 

SL will step back and hand the reigns over to Jon 

and Mark…

[Red Exile]

24 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Personally I think that if this season was to go pear shaped

and (god help us) we were relegated 

 

SL will step back and hand the reigns over to Jon 

Heaven help us...

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, myol'man said:

Hope we don't get spanked 7-1 at Swansea on Saturday 

It just so happened I was meeting the only Jack I know in Somerset for a drink the weekend after that.

He was ecsatic and in piss-taking mode. I just thanked him and said his lot had done us a favour. 7-1 on top of his other failures was unsurvivable for Tins. Had it been 4-1, we might have limped on with him at the helm for many more weeks.

Going back to Danny Wilson: two words spelt his downfall. Leroy Lita. Wilson had clearly never heard that football cliche: "If he's good enough, he's old enough!"

[Ivorguy]

1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

Heaven help us...

Frying pans and fires come to mind

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Perhaps Tinnion is being lined up as the cheap option for a second go

I feel sick having read all the above. Not because it's new information but because it is sadly relevant.

SL is the problem, not the solution, in the recruitment and retention of good managers.

Don't joke about it- Tinnion- you'll only give SL ideas!!

Being serious for a second though, agree with you a point about managers but it's a mixed bag. Tin hat time!

Coppell had been a fairly successful manager in football..he had his issues for sure, but to walk out like that should have set big alarm bells ringing about the club.

O'Driscoll WAS prior to joining us a decent manager. Did decent at Bournemouth early in career, significantly overachieved at Doncaster and did well at Forest, kept hem up helping out Cotts ironically, then had them on the verge of top 6 when sacked in 2012.

Some of the managers we hired were poor, but OTOH we were in such a mess from the end of GJ's time to the arrival of Cotts on and off the pitch (Millen had a honeymoon period in 2010 as caretaker and in hindsight did alright in 10/11) far more experienced managers would have had a challenge on their hands.

O'Driscoll was dreadful for us, but was also in at a disastrous period (by modern standards, not.early 80's) for the club.

Lest we forget despite Cotts improving us we were in the drop zone as late as the end of Feb 2014 in League One so shows how deep the rot was set in and how many decent managers might have failed here.

[myol'man]

11 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

It just so happened I was meeting the only Jack I know in Somerset for a drink the weekend after that.

He was ecsatic and in piss-taking mode. I just thanked him and said his lot had done us a favour. 7-1 on top of his other failures was unsurvivable for Tins. Had it been 4-1, we might have limped on with him at the helm for many more weeks.

Going back to Danny Wilson: two words spelt his downfall. Leroy Lita. Wilson had clearly never heard that football cliche: "If he's good enough, he's old enough!"

Two sides of the Leroy Lita story

1 Should have played some part in the playoff final.

2 You can't manage City players drinking culture from Chesterfield!