Comparison with last season

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

After four league games last season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Reid 4, Diedhiou 1, Brownhill 1

After four games this season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Weimann 4, Paterson 1, Taylor 1

[downendcity]

Just now, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

After four league games last season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Reid 4, Diedhiou 1, Brownhill 1

After four games this season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Weimann 4, Paterson 1, Taylor 1

Another poster resorting to using facts!

 

 

 

[cidered abroad]

6 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

After four league games last season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Reid 4, Diedhiou 1, Brownhill 1

After four games this season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Weimann 4, Paterson 1, Taylor 1

But last year we hammered Argyle!

[cidercity1987]

The next game was a draw home to Villa. I'd certainly take a draw on Saturday.

[The Chaplain]

Obviously should've sacked the manage last year too then!

[Monkeh]

3 minutes ago, The Chaplain said:

Obviously should've sacked the manage last year too then!

longer ago then that, but there's no point getting worked up about it, 

[Wanderingred]

Performance wise pretty similar too. We comfortably beat an utterly dreadful Barnsley, played OK at Birmingham but lost then had two absolute stinkers against Brentford and Millwall, after which people were predicting relegation in the name of "being realistic" and demanding LJ's head. We then went on to have an amazing run of form and these doom and gloom merchants were made to look very silly indeed.

I'm not saying it will happen again and I don't expect it to, but this is why I think the over the top negativity and doom and gloom at this stage of the seasons is ridiculous. 

[Olé]

30 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

After four league games last season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Reid 4, Diedhiou 1, Brownhill 1

After four games this season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Weimann 4, Paterson 1, Taylor 1

Good call out, but this is yet another reminder of the style of football vs results adage: which tells the useful story?

It's a bit of myth we started last season well on results - we lost our second game and should have lost our third - we actually only got up a head of steam into Autumn. But the performances were largely far better than the results, i.e. we were all over Birmingham and should never have lost that game. Brentford away was the only game in that spell where the result (2-2) flattered us, we were very poor, but it was an anomaly for a team playing good attacking football.

Conversely the results this season have in my opinion been better than the football (which isn't saying a lot) - we didn't do much of attacking note to win the 3 games we failed to win, and last night we won in spite of QPR's early dominance by hanging on for them to make a mistake. That's not me pouring cold water on the comparison, the test is now to replicate the real form of last season in Autumn - I'm not sure our approach is refined enough to be sure of that yet.

[Wanderingred]

2 minutes ago, Olé said:

Good call out, but this is yet another reminder of the style of football vs results adage: which tells the useful story?

It's a bit of myth we started last season well on results - we lost our second game and should have lost our third - we actually only got up a head of steam into Autumn. But the performances were largely far better than the results, i.e. we were all over Birmingham and should never have lost that game. Brentford away was the only game in that spell where the result (2-2) flattered us, we were very poor, but it was an anomaly for a team playing good attacking football.

Conversely the results this season have in my opinion been better than the football (which isn't saying a lot) - we didn't do much of attacking note to win the 3 games we failed to win, and last night we won in spite of QPR's early dominance by hanging on for them to make a mistake. That's not me pouring cold water on the comparison, the test is now to replicate the real form of last season in Autumn - I'm not sure our approach is refined enough to be sure of that yet.

Brentford away and Millwall home last season were equally as bad, if not worse than our last two performances, imho. I do agree that there were more promising signs 12 months ago though. We've only had a decent 20 minutes vs Forest so far.

[Leveller]

2 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Brentford away and Millwall home last season were equally as bad, if not worse than our last two performances, imho. I do agree that there were more promising signs 12 months ago though. We've only had a decent 20 minutes vs Forest so far.

That’s not really fair is it? We had a decent first 20 minutes against Boro too, must have done something right to have come back against Bolton and dominated QPR for 50 minutes last night.

But our only win has come when we abandoned passing football!  Interesting times.

[The Chaplain]

I agree that, particularly at this stage of the season, it's about performance rather than mere results, but I'd argue that our quality this term has, so far, been at least as good as last year.  Last night was, for me, arguably our worst performane, yet the most effective ... there were good reasons for that which I understand.  Even so, we were certainly better yesterday than we were against Brentford last August.  I liken the Boro game to the St Andrews trip last time, pretty but ineffective.  Crucially, these results have come without our first choice 11, and missing key players at both ends of the pitch.  The new players all look good and we've played potentially 2 of the top 6, maybe 3 after Saturday..  Nothing is guaranteed for sure but I think there are plenty of grounds for optimism. 

[Monkeh]

9 minutes ago, Leveller said:

That’s not really fair is it? We had a decent first 20 minutes against Boro too, must have done something right to have come back against Bolton and dominated QPR for 50 minutes last night.

But our only win has come when we abandoned passing football!  Interesting times.

we dominated bolton but were weak at the back

[Olé]

14 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Brentford away and Millwall home last season were equally as bad, if not worse than our last two performances, imho.

I saw you mentioned Millwall and I'd forgotten that game but I recall saying at the time there won't be many better away performances at AG that season, and I don't think there were, they did an absolute number on us. Personally on style of football last season to this, I'd assess that game differently to having 70% odd possession at AG and doing nowt with it. 

[Alessandro]

I think personally it’s not ideal to make comparisons to last season.

Just as I’d say taking our poorer form from the end of last season into the beginning of this is misleading - I’d say the same of comparing our good form this time last season.

Why? Not only have we lost 3 key players, we fielded 5 new players yesterday. That’s almost half a team. Add to that 2 younger players in Kelly and Eliasson - and that is over half a ‘new’ team. 

It’s going to take more than 4 games to see what this group of players is, or isn’t capable under LJ.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

31 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I think personally it’s not ideal to make comparisons to last season.

Just as I’d say taking our poorer form from the end of last season into the beginning of this is misleading - I’d say the same of comparing our good form this time last season.

Why? Not only have we lost 3 key players, we fielded 5 new players yesterday. That’s almost half a team. Add to that 2 younger players in Kelly and Eliasson - and that is over half a ‘new’ team. 

It’s going to take more than 4 games to see what this group of players is, or isn’t capable under LJ.

Yes I agree.  Given the changes in the squad, the early injury problems, and Diedhiou's suspension, we might have done a lot worse.  I saw very positive signs in the second half yesterday that we have a squad beginning to discover the sort of confidence and self-belief we saw for much of last year.

[Lrrr]

Announce league cup semi final..... oh

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

3 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Performance wise pretty similar too. We comfortably beat an utterly dreadful Barnsley, played OK at Birmingham but lost then had two absolute stinkers against Brentford and Millwall, after which people were predicting relegation in the name of "being realistic" and demanding LJ's head. We then went on to have an amazing run of form and these doom and gloom merchants were made to look very silly indeed.

I'm not saying it will happen again and I don't expect it to, but this is why I think the over the top negativity and doom and gloom at this stage of the seasons is ridiculous. 

But how do you explain only 5 wins in 30 games ......  is what the doommongers will be rolling out should we lose or draw at Swansea.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Another comparison other than what @Alessandro rightly mentions about a new team is that last season we didn't have our injury crisis until later on. We are playing with players out of position and little or no competition.

I just can't see what the posters on the match day thread see in terms of relegation which has been often mentioned by the usual suspects. Mind you, in comparison  I haven't seen one happy clapper mention promotion and with good reason.

The best comparison I see is that 'we're a work in progress' and this just may be the ongoing theme at our club now. The cycle of improving youth to the point where we lose the best at the end of each season must not be allowed to happen and the only person who can stop this is Mr Lansdown. Lee or any Manager is irrelevant.

What possible indication has been given to our players is that there's real prospect of a step up with BCFC? The only break in the cycle is to spend a lot more money which is dead easy for me to say when I haven't got any.

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

Announce league cup semi final..... oh

It's going to be the FA Cup this year, get with the programme.  

[Frenchay Red]

3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

After four league games last season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Reid 4, Diedhiou 1, Brownhill 1

After four games this season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Weimann 4, Paterson 1, Taylor 1

Well just not good enough.

SL said he wanted us to do better this season.  

[italian dave]

7 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Brentford away and Millwall home last season were equally as bad, if not worse than our last two performances, imho. I do agree that there were more promising signs 12 months ago though. We've only had a decent 20 minutes vs Forest so far.

You and I must have differing ideas of decent then!

We were decent for 80 minutes at Bolton: decent without being able to quite find the final ball to break down a 9 man wall first half - and more than decent second half. I thought we were decent in spells v Boro too.

[WessexPest]

7 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

But last year we hammered Argyle!

Fair point, but although I enjoyed our cup exploits last term look at what happened to our league form after we felled the Man United giant.

Not suggesting the lack of cup distractions will necessarily propel us to league glory this year, but it’s amazing what a nice midweek 3-0 away win can do to fan optimism.

[Bristol Oil Services]

Comparison with last season:

Beat Forest at home (3 points last season, 1 this)

Lost at Bolton (0 last year, 1 this)

Beat Boro at home (3 last year, 0 this)

Drew at QPR (1 last year, 3 this).

That makes 7 points from these fixtures last season, 5 this.

And beaten at home by Plymouth. All facts that tell us .... we'll need to collect at least two more points on last season from somewhere to be heading into the Jan transfer window in second place.

 

[Wanderingred]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

You and I must have differing ideas of decent then!

We were decent for 80 minutes at Bolton: decent without being able to quite find the final ball to break down a 9 man wall first half - and more than decent second half. I thought we were decent in spells v Boro too.

Errrm yes, it seems we certainly do have differing ideas of decent!

[Sturny]

Interesting stat, does mildly fill me with more confidence about this squad 

[mozo]

11 hours ago, Monkeh said:

we dominated bolton but were weak at the back

That'll be the Bolton that have won all their other games so far!

[Chairman Mao]

12 hours ago, Olé said:

Good call out, but this is yet another reminder of the style of football vs results adage: which tells the useful story?

It's a bit of myth we started last season well on results - we lost our second game and should have lost our third - we actually only got up a head of steam into Autumn. But the performances were largely far better than the results, i.e. we were all over Birmingham and should never have lost that game. Brentford away was the only game in that spell where the result (2-2) flattered us, we were very poor, but it was an anomaly for a team playing good attacking football.

Conversely the results this season have in my opinion been better than the football (which isn't saying a lot) - we didn't do much of attacking note to win the 3 games we failed to win, and last night we won in spite of QPR's early dominance by hanging on for them to make a mistake. That's not me pouring cold water on the comparison, the test is now to replicate the real form of last season in Autumn - I'm not sure our approach is refined enough to be sure of that yet.

Normally I would agree with you Ole but surely the performance at Bolton deserved a win. Bolton were woeful but also split them apart through the middle on a number of occasions, Pack and Brownhill were much better there than last night. Still not quite sure how Bolton have had such a good start, their defence is inept against any form of pace.

[Davefevs]

 

14 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

After four league games last season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Reid 4, Diedhiou 1, Brownhill 1

After four games this season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Weimann 4, Paterson 1, Taylor 1

 

13 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Performance wise pretty similar too. We comfortably beat an utterly dreadful Barnsley, played OK at Birmingham but lost then had two absolute stinkers against Brentford and Millwall, after which people were predicting relegation in the name of "being realistic" and demanding LJ's head. We then went on to have an amazing run of form and these doom and gloom merchants were made to look very silly indeed.

I'm not saying it will happen again and I don't expect it to, but this is why I think the over the top negativity and doom and gloom at this stage of the seasons is ridiculous. 

Interesting stuff, when you also look back at final league positions, you might say (very simplistically) we:

- rightfully beat Barnsley

- should’ve beaten Brum

- probably should’ve lost to Brentford

- rightfully drew with Millwall

So perhaps we should’ve had 7 points from 4 games last season.

This season, our results have probably matched expectations...if you look at where Bolton are.

But all the above is pretty meaningless.  At the end of the season will we have gained unexpected points and lost points we thought we ought to get.

Last night earned some breathing space and hopefully kick-starts some better results.

[TBW]

14 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

After four league games last season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Reid 4, Diedhiou 1, Brownhill 1

After four games this season:

W1 D2 L1 F6 A5 Pts 5

Scorers: Weimann 4, Paterson 1, Taylor 1

So you're saying, it's been 12 months and we've made no progress at all! Sack the manager.

[havanatopia]

 

16 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

But last year we hammered Argyle!

This year we lost and it might just save us from the end of year 'falling off the cliff' experience. 

And I think what Alessandro says below is absolutely right.

15 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I think personally it’s not ideal to make comparisons to last season.

Just as I’d say taking our poorer form from the end of last season into the beginning of this is misleading - I’d say the same of comparing our good form this time last season.

Why? Not only have we lost 3 key players, we fielded 5 new players yesterday. That’s almost half a team. Add to that 2 younger players in Kelly and Eliasson - and that is over half a ‘new’ team. 

It’s going to take more than 4 games to see what this group of players is, or isn’t capable under LJ.