Wages

[ChippenhamRed]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Do you feel the same about other people in jobs that earn huge money? Actors, other sports etc

I have a problem with anyone earning vast sums of money that are hugely disproportionate to their talent or ability, in a world where people starve to death every day.

[Bristol Oil Services]

10 hours ago, Redcliffe1990 said:

Our wage bill is in the lower half of the division, comparatively low compared to Villa, Stoke and those subject to the Premier League machine.

However, how do you feel when our top earners take home reportedly up to 20k a week, even after tax more in a week than many earn in a year.

Do you feel player earnings are justified as the market dictates?

Do you feel the players are representative of you and our community, despite the vast disparity in income between supporter and player, on average?

In anticipation of the description of footballers’ careers as short, yes you could argue so but today temporary, insecure work pervades and we’ve largely moved away from traditional lifelong careers across the board, rightly or wrongly.

Great to see our local academy players coming through of course, Max and Lloyd, lads we truly want to see develop and mature, while representing us. However, do you feel represented through our high earners, temporarily wearing our badge? Or does a players’ earnings create a disconnect between you and the club or player? 

While many scrape by on minimum wage and live in insecure private accommodation, high earning players, not just ours of course, earn a comfortable annual income in a matter of weeks. It is of course necessary within the context of modern football, but it does also create distance between supporter and player, in my opinion. Is there something to be done, I don’t know. How does it make you feel?

I try not to think about it. About any of this. 90 minutes of football on a Saturday is an escape into a ridiculous, artificial bubble (which includes this forum, and the way supporters react to and at the game) where "real life" can be left alone and forgotten about temporarily. It has long provided this form of escape.

Think about it too much and you find more and more reasons to drift away to something else.....

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

52 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I know a lot of people have challenged that as an authentic document however it doesn't need to be an authentic document.

It ties in with what is known about the players' wages and expected appearances / loans and was not even at the time rubbished for its content but rather for its provenance.

If it was put together by somebody who follows the club closely as well as picking information from transfer market and Championship Manager then it was put together well and represents an accurate picture of the squad and their wages for 2016/17.

Which is rather the point of it.

So basically you’re saying that someone can put together a document based on hearsay and rumour and unsubstantiated websites and digital football games and it will be perceived as being accurate? 

[054123]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

Of course it is. It’s obscene, but it is what it is. They may run at a loss but the players are very well remunerated. 

So why do so many clubs run at a loss if the game is awash with money?

I think what you mean is a very few clubs have created a situation that sees them attract a disproportionate a mount of wealth. This inturn leads to high wages and this in turn fuels wage and general expense escalation throughout the rest of football, then is unsustainable.

Again, the ‘game’ is most certainly not awash with money.

[1960maaan]

21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Do you feel the same about other people in jobs that earn huge money? Actors, other sports etc

Apples and Oranges really, the film thing doesn't work. A top actor can demand top fees as they know that their  film will make money. You don't get young actors making their first film being paid multi millions . You do , however get teenagers on a £1m a year and nowhere near the first team. 
A lot of peoples problems with footballers pay, is seeing average players, or unproven kids on massive salaries ,at the same time teams are going bust for the same amount as a middling Prem footballer gets a week.

Agents have clubs over a barrel, you want the player you have to pay the wages. Top players get the top wages and the rest enjoy the trickle down effect, I do have a problem with agents fees though. There is nothing that can be done now, wage cap? Too late, and as I said , as long as even a relegation Prem side gets £100m how can they argue against players wages. That said , is anyone happy to see Sanchez on £500,000 a week ???

[054123]

41 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Do you feel the same about other people in jobs that earn huge money? Actors, other sports etc

I think football bucks the trend of most of the business models you refer to.

If I create a film that generates 400m at the box office then I can see how the stars can get paid 10m.

Football doesn’t generate this income and relies on at best rich benefactors and at worst, income secured against assets.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Apples and Oranges really, the film thing doesn't work. A top actor can demand top fees as they know that their  film will make money. You don't get young actors making their first film being paid multi millions . You do , however get teenagers on a £1m a year and nowhere near the first team. 
A lot of peoples problems with footballers pay, is seeing average players, or unproven kids on massive salaries ,at the same time teams are going bust for the same amount as a middling Prem footballer gets a week.

Agents have clubs over a barrel, you want the player you have to pay the wages. Top players get the top wages and the rest enjoy the trickle down effect, I do have a problem with agents fees though. There is nothing that can be done now, wage cap? Too late, and as I said , as long as even a relegation Prem side gets £100m how can they argue against players wages. That said , is anyone happy to see Sanchez on £500,000 a week ???

Yes, and as long as he continues to play shit for Man Utd, i’m absolutely fine with it 

Seriously though, it is crazy....£26m a year.

I don’t believe Agents are to blame.  I don’t like the role they play, but clubs are to blame for paying the vast sums to both the player and their Agent.

 

 

[daored]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, and as long as he continues to play shit for Man Utd, i’m absolutely fine with it 

Seriously though, it is crazy....£26m a year.

I don’t believe Agents are to blame.  I don’t like the role they play, but clubs are to blame for paying the vast sums to both the player and their Agent.

 

 

Clubs have a decision what they want to pay their players. Sanchez is a perfect example, Man City for all their wealth decided not to pursue him, due to the wage demands, more clubs need to take this stance.

I think the biggest problem is the younger players who haven’t achieved anything, take Tammy as an example by all accounts he’s on £40k a week (rumours I accept), that’s a lot of money for a player who with the greatest respect has achieved nothing. What does he do , does he leave Chelsea and pay for another club where he’s unlikely to get those wages? I’m using Tammy as an example but I would suspect Kalas is on a decent wage from Chelsea as well.   

I firmly believe clubs should have a wage cap for each league, say £20k in the championship with bonuses added, reward performance, results playing for the first team. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

11 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

When I was growing up following the City, the players earned about double what the average Bristolian was on, that was acceptable, they all lived in semi detached houses and drove Ford Capris, they lived next door to normal, happy, proper Bristolians....they were very much still in the real world, and they gave everything they bloody well had for our club.....it’s all gone now, it will never come back, the players today will never relate to the fans they ‘claim’ to represent....we had a proper team back then, totally embedded in the community....oh well, the game has moved on....as I’m constantly told by the 1992 premier league, Sky generation, the ones who will never know the joy of supporting your local club when the players did it for you because they loved it.....

I seem to remember contracts with players automatically going on half wages in the close season and they bumped up their money doing painting/repairs around the ground in preparation for the new season.

Not only totally embedded in the community but totally embedded in their club.

[Eddie Hitler]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

There is no way you can say with any certainty that it represents an accurate picture of the squad and their wages. We don’t know their wages.

 

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

So basically you’re saying that someone can put together a document based on hearsay and rumour and unsubstantiated websites and digital football games and it will be perceived as being accurate? 

The alternative to taking an informed listing as a good guide, which in my opinion this is, is merely to shrug and say "we don't know anything" which then closes all avenues of discussion and leads to the repeated "Wages" posts on transfer threads whenever a decent player is mentioned on the basis that whilst we don't know what we pay and we don't know what they want we can still confidently state that we can't afford their wages so close down the thread 

It's entirely personal choice.

[Bris Red]

3 hours ago, 054123 said:

My only challenge to this is that it is not driven by tv money.

The vast majority of professional football clubs run at a loss when trying to operate to these levels (ourselves included) there for it is not a reflection of the market or the industry.

Sadly a reflection of greed.

Indeed. Most clubs literally cannot afford the wages being paid, that is not my opinion that is factual.. as you said most clubs run at a loss, just having a look at most clubs accounts and that is proven. That is why i disgaree with pandering to these players wage demands, if the money was properly there and clubs didnt have to go to the wall in many cases to afford it then fair enough pay them what they like but that isn’t the case. 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

There is absolutely no way that’s real.

And if you genuinely believe it is, then you’ll have to explain why it’s credible.

There were things on there I could never explain. It highlighted players who hadn’t left the club yet but essentially everyone with a star next to them has left by the start of the season.  It was either a very good guess at who was leaving or.. 

i can’t see why the bits at the bottom left would be relevant tho 

[pillred]

3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

There is absolutely no way that’s real.

And if you genuinely believe it is, then you’ll have to explain why it’s credible.

agreed, putting every players wages on one piece of paper that could fall into the wrong hands would cause untold damage to moral if it got out, no way on earth the club would be that daft.

[1960maaan]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, and as long as he continues to play shit for Man Utd, i’m absolutely fine with it 

Seriously though, it is crazy....£26m a year.

I don’t believe Agents are to blame.  I don’t like the role they play, but clubs are to blame for paying the vast sums to both the player and their Agent.

 

 

In as much as it's their job to do the best for their client, no. But the Pogba deal, the rumour was the agent pocketed £4om+ that IS  obscene. They should get paid for a good job, but often the player is an by product. Some deals the agents have worked for both sides, and that can't be right. No one can tell me that is is right/proper/fair that an agent gets £40m when the deal is £90.

I agree the clubs are culpable, but it's a chain of events.... ambition , comparison , negotiation , capitulation 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

In as much as it's their job to do the best for their client, no. But the Pogba deal, the rumour was the agent pocketed £4om+ that IS  obscene. They should get paid for a good job, but often the player is an by product. Some deals the agents have worked for both sides, and that can't be right. No one can tell me that is is right/proper/fair that an agent gets £40m when the deal is £90.

I agree the clubs are culpable, but it's a chain of events.... ambition , comparison , negotiation , capitulation 

Absolutely.

I had started to write some rules about how Agents should be paid, but it falls apart with deals like Pogba, or where the club instigate the move.  It’s not always the player or the player’s agent instigating the deal.

Transparency would be a start.

[1960maaan]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Transparency would be a start

True , but a bit of a pipe dream I think.

[A Darkwood Red]

12 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

From a couple of years back; Kodjia and Tomlin were on £15k per week.

If you look at the bottom, the notes mention No Tammy or Kent? Seems to be mixing up it's seasons.

[DownendRed97]

Footballers and other sportspeople (like golfers) earn so much money because of the fact that they entertain millions of people, who pay to be entertained. Bad example but Messi earns a ridiculous amount of money a week, but, could anyone else in the world do what he does? Probably not, that’s why he earns the big bucks. He shouldn’t earn as much as he does, but I understand why he does, especially considering the way the economy in football is heading. So that explains why the average championship player can now request a wage of 15k because of the amount of money flying around. 

Average footballers shouldn’t really demand a wage higher than your average skilled job in theory, but that’s the way the world is.  

[BRISTOL86]

7 hours ago, 054123 said:

My only challenge to this is that it is not driven by tv money.

The vast majority of professional football clubs run at a loss when trying to operate to these levels (ourselves included) there for it is not a reflection of the market or the industry.

Sadly a reflection of greed.

Fair point. I was thinking more the real top clubs and the truly obscene end of the pay scale. 

Its a hard balance isn’t it. Because people aren’t happy at the lack of quality we recruit now, imagine the reaction if we had to truly live within our means.

[Bar BS3]

16 hours ago, Gibbs said:

If our top earners are on up to 20k I'd be impressed. A complete guess but I imagine the likes of David James, Stephen Pearson, Damion Stewart, Kalifa Cisse etc were on 20-35k. 

What a strange post, if it’s a complete guess..! 

I’d imagine that you are way, WAY off the mark with your “guess”, even DJ. 

[Gibbs]

Just now, Bar BS3 said:

What a strange post, if it’s a complete guess..! 

I’d imagine that you are way, WAY off the mark with your “guess”, even DJ. 

'Complete' was the wrong word, I'm just not sure of the exact figures. We definitely had some bang average players on stupid salaries back then though.

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, Gibbs said:

'Complete' was the wrong word, I'm just not sure of the exact figures. We definitely had some bang average players on stupid salaries back then though.

None of the names you used would have been on anything even close to 30-35k a week. 

It was strongly rumoured that DJ was on 20k and that was massively above anything else we’d ever paid anyone. 

Even now, I doubt our top earner is on more than 20k. 

[Kid in the Riot]

On ‎27‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 08:29, ChippenhamRed said:

There is no way you can say with any certainty that it represents an accurate picture of the squad and their wages. We don’t know their wages.

I do, as of this season. It's not hard to find out if you speak to the right people. 

Our top earner is on £18k pw and the rest of the first team squad are on between £7-12k pw.

Given that, I'd say the numbers on that spreadsheet are entirely believable. 

[BRISTOL86]

Who’s the top earner?

[nebristolred]

Baker or Fammy I'd assume? EDIT: Or Weimann.

[Kid in the Riot]

Don't know but given he has played the most Premier League football most recently I assumed Baker.

[Carey 6]

18 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I do, as of this season. It's not hard to find out if you speak to the right people. 

Our top earner is on £18k pw and the rest of the first team squad are on between £7-12k pw.

Given that, I'd say the numbers on that spreadsheet are entirely believable. 

I know one of our players is on 12k pw. So think that's about right. 

We've had a few indicators of what the squads on through Burns & Packs old man in the past few years. 

Also, @Bar BS3 I remember hearing at the time we signed David James that he was on 20k but had a very decent clean sheet bonus. 

 

[Bar BS3]

10 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Also, @Bar BS3 I remember hearing at the time we signed David James that he was on 20k but had a very decent clean sheet bonus. 

 

So.... £20k per week then...!

[Major Isewater]

On 27/10/2018 at 07:59, Mad Cyril said:

I dont go to football to see players who are representative of me.

Why would I want to pay £30 to watch a fat bald unfit pillock with two left feet and dodgy knees completely embarrass himself trying to kick a ball?

You  leave Big Tone out if this .

[Bar BS3]

On 27/10/2018 at 06:59, Mad Cyril said:

I dont go to football to see players who are representative of me.

Why would I want to pay £30 to watch a fat bald unfit pillock with two left feet and dodgy knees completely embarrass himself trying to kick a ball?

I never enjoyed watching Iain Baird either..!