Reading v Bristol City Match Day 16

[City fan 1982]

10 minutes ago, Sergio Georgini said:

feels like everything's very stale at the moment, we have no players who are really going to get you out your seat and create something out of nothing. 

The best we can hope for with this team is to safely stay away from the relegation zone, anything else would be a bonus.

The last bit is the clubs new strapline going forward

[Up The City!]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

To implement a style well that is simple. Asking the players to play the ball longer consistently is a style of play. There is little coaching skill in that.

What Mr Johnson talks about is identity and that means the team has a model of play (system), and that model has principles and sub principles underpinning the model. To put these principles in place is a longer term but the answer is not three years, and it is there Mr Johnson has failed.

If you want high energy, tempo, close passing principles do not buy a low energy striker with a touch like a trampoline = It is not clear what the teams principles and sub principles are.

It would be interesting to hear what @Up The City! thinks the system is. 

 

 

 

The system is exactly what you have said it is. A system like we are trying to play is hugely complex and implementing it will take time. Had we not made wholesale changes this summer then we would see more of that Identity but it's like we have started again. The question that needs to be asked is, if we're going to make these changes every summer then how are we ever going to be able to implement this system? 

[1960maaan]

10 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Do you actually watch the games? Because if you did you would see why try to pass it around, create triangles etc. We bossed the possession today and there was some really nice passages of play. 

 

Its basically a new team this season so you can forget about the last two seasons. I can't believe I'm even writing this post as it's so simple to understand. It really isn't as easy as telling players to pass it around and score a goal.

I could go on and on and explain the tactical systems and all that but I'd just be wasting my time.

Just have a little patience.

Firstly I wasn’t there and didn’t watch the stream. 

Possesion means absolutely nothing, it’s what you do with it. We seem to want to contain first of all and see what we can nick, different from the last couple of years. As for new team, LJ picks his players and so any new ones should fit his system/philosophy . So has LJ changed his “style” , or is his recruitment scattergun ? It is a new back 4 , but (DaSilva and Kelly apart) all experienced Championship players . Yeah it’s not as easy as “go pass, score” but I’m still waiting for a style and system that fits the players that he has brought in. Even Johnson said Walsh fits a 3, yet he brought him in when acquiring 4 wingers.  I don’t see a positive direction at the club, and I’m still not sure Johnson knows what or how he is trying to build.

[real_bristol]

3 hours ago, City_USA said:

I respect your opinion however I disagree. Scoring when coming off the bench shouldn't warrant an automatic start, just warrants another chance on the bench to do it again. Do that regularly then yes you've earned the right to start. We weren't a bad team when he was suspended and imo Weimann and Taylor must have wondered what they did wrong when FD came back in. I'm not necessarily a LJ out kind of guy but I wonder if a more technically sound and hard nosed mgr would have been so quick to tinker to include his "big name" player. I wish we would stop tinkering, playing players out of position play a system, stick to it and let teams worry about us instead of changing into other teams hands. Again just my opinion but I'm a very frustrated fan at the moment and feel we could be doing better

I think you’ve got a valid point with the benefit of hindsight, and had MT and AW not been performing at the time FD starting would definitely have been the right decision. LJ took a gamble and lost and I definitely don’t think he should be sacked because of it. He does seem to be a bit of a tinker man but it’s still relatively early and wonder if he’s got one eye on potential injuries in the new year and doesn’t want to knacker anyone out too early. If it’s not that I can’t see why o’dowda is on the bench. I thought he should have started with the team that saw the game out against Stoke. 

Need a win now for sure

[City_USA]

3 minutes ago, real_bristol said:

I think you’ve got a valid point with the benefit of hindsight, and had MT and AW not been performing at the time FD starting would definitely have been the right decision. LJ took a gamble and lost and I definitely don’t think he should be sacked because of it. He does seem to be a bit of a tinker man but it’s still relatively early and wonder if he’s got one eye on potential injuries in the new year and doesn’t want to knacker anyone out too early. If it’s not that I can’t see why o’dowda is on the bench. I thought he should have started with the team that saw the game out against Stoke. 

Need a win now for sure

I'm baffled as to why he didn't start with the side that finished against stoke. We can all agree we need a win asap. Unfortunately I don't see that coming against Preston next week but then again I didn't see us loosing today so what do I know :laugh:

[Cowshed]

25 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

The system is exactly what you have said it is. 

 With the greatest respect I would be aware if I had attempted to explain what Mr Johnsons system (model of play) is.

30 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

. A system like we are trying to play is hugely complex and implementing it will take time. 

Again what system?

Why is it complex? 

31 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

. Had we not made wholesale changes this summer then we would see more of that Identity but it's like we have started again.  

That is what models of play avoid. By having playing principles in place teams are not constantly starting again because new players come into sides with established playing principles that do not change, and players are bought with the appropriate skill sets to fit that steadfast identity. 

35 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

 The question that needs to be asked is, if we're going to make these changes every summer then how are we ever going to be able to implement this system? 

Again what system?

If Mr Johnson does not have his non negotiables for when the team is possession, out of possession, in transition etc the answer has to be never, because that is not a system, its systems.

[havanatopia]

2 hours ago, Loosey Boy said:

We won't spend a penny in Jan......

I fear you will be right.

[chinapig]

13 hours ago, Up The City! said:

Do you actually watch the games? Because if you did you would see why try to pass it around, create triangles etc. We bossed the possession today and there was some really nice passages of play. 

 

Its basically a new team this season so you can forget about the last two seasons. I can't believe I'm even writing this post as it's so simple to understand. It really isn't as easy as telling players to pass it around and score a goal.

I could go on and on and explain the tactical systems and all that but I'd just be wasting my time.

Just have a little patience.

Passing the ball around, and we do play some good stuff at times, is not a system.

Sheff Utd apart and the second half against Stoke we have tried variations on 4-4-2.

Sometimes it's with 2 orthodox wingers and 2 strikers.

Sometimes 2 wingers but with 1 striker and a player in the hole.

Sometimes it's a big man/small man up front, others it's 2 more mobile forwards.

Which means I cannot see what the preferred system is. Instead we seem to keep experimenting in the hope of hitting on one. It seemed we might have found it at Swansea with a superb, controlled performance but LJ almost immediately started tinkering with things.

It is going to be hard to achieve consistency with the constant changes and with players not knowing from game to game what the system is going to be.

[handsofclay]

18 hours ago, Alan Dicks said:

No it's not, Johnson is a pathetic manager, has never won anything at managerial level regardless of the leauge, quite frankly will never win sweet FA imo.

And yes iam entitled to my opinion.

The man whose name you use on here never won anything at managerial level for 9 years before getting us promoted to the top flight in 1976!

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

Passing the ball around, and we do play some good stuff at times, is not a system.

Sheff Utd apart and the second half against Stoke we have tried variations on 4-4-2.

Sometimes it's with 2 orthodox wingers and 2 strikers.

Sometimes 2 wingers but with 1 striker and a player in the hole.

Sometimes it's a big man/small man up front, others it's 2 more mobile forwards.

Which means I cannot see what the preferred system is. Instead we seem to keep experimenting in the hope of hitting on one. It seemed we might have found it at Swansea with a superb, controlled performance but LJ almost immediately started tinkering with things.

It is going to be hard to achieve consistency with the constant changes and with players not knowing from game to game what the system is going to be.

I worry that LJ tries to be too clever and that we don't have the level of player who can adapt like those of Man City , Liverpool etc .

IMHO , the game plan should be simple and easy for every player to understand what is required of him not chopping and changing every five minutes. 

 

[BetterRedthanBlue]

Not usually one to post in the match day thread. There were plenty of issues yesterday from 2 players going for the same ball (which lead to their first and third goal), passing not quick enough yes it looks good but we were just crying for it to go forward instead of backwards/sideways. Reading were just hungrier then us always first to the second ball, snapping into tackles. 

 

The good stuff from yesterday, good respond right at the end of the first half to get the equaliser and I thought Walsh played well. 

 

But I don't understand why he decides to play Brownhill on the right too often he drifted into the centre which allowed the left back (one of their better players imo) time and space which meant hunt had a horrendous time trying to stop 2 players. 

[chinapig]

18 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I worry that LJ tries to be too clever and that we don't have the level of player who can adapt like those of Man City , Liverpool etc .

IMHO , the game plan should be simple and easy for every player to understand what is required of him not chopping and changing every five minutes. 

 

Modern coaching (in England at least) is a much more sophisticated business than it once was* and the game as a whole is better for it imo.

It does mean sometimes though that coaches do indeed try to be too clever and I agree that LJ is guilty of that. He has a group of largely average Championship players with the limitations that brings so constant changes of approach, even if they are largely variations on 4-4-2, are likely to lead to inconsistency.

*this is a simplification of course, there have always been innovative coaches in England but they tended to be in a minority. After the shock of being humiliated by the great Hungary side most heads stayed firmly in the sand for years, believing in the inherent superiority of English football.

[bcfcredandwhite]

The starting lineup was as if LJ had been on OTIB and digested all the criticism from the Stoke game; Walsh and Taylor starting, Pato relegated to the subs bench - a team picked by the fans themselves. Nothing could go wrong could it? After all, we know his starting lineup better than he does don’t we?

i have to admit that lineup is more or less what I would have chosen.