JoeAman08 Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: Pring? Pring barely features in L2. We are probably lucky they took him and them giving him a chance. Very quick and attacking but think he is a long way off. Which is fine for his personal development but anything more than third choice LB next season I’d be a little worried. Baker is a good option off the bench for us but also a very expensive one. I am on the record for having a Kelly and Webster pairing next season. Baker will probably still be around because hard to move his wages. That is fine and a good first 3 to have. With Vyner and Moore back we should be fine for options at CB. Also with Hunt being here and Vyner and Moore able to cover I’d be happy with that too. At LB however we have 2 spots to fill. Now maybe we get one and keep Pring around and that would be satisfactory but I’d prefer two. One to start and one to compete with Pring. As for Baker the other day? Thought he was solid but unspectacular. Which is great for him. Kept it simple, did not dive in(wanted to a couple times it looked) did his job in the air and just generally played well. I like him and always have but he like many had a really poor stretch of form. Unluckily for him he lost his place when others did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 hours ago, cidered abroad said: Pring? Forgot about him- how's he progressing? Haven't read a huge amount about him on here. Think if he progresses as we hope, based on the Vyner loan model he should perhaps be in first team squad in 2 seasons perhaps. @JoeAman08 Vyner, I agree. Moore? Time will tell, certainly getting some good reviews on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Forgot about him- how's he progressing? Haven't read a huge amount about him on here. @JoeAman08 Is Moore progressing well enough to be in the first team squad next season? Vyner I agree, Moore dunno- Vyner seems the most likely of the loanees at this stage IMO. Southend fans love Moore, I think he was actually ahead of Vyner for this season before he picked up his injury, I think he only went down to Southend because it was too late to get him something higher, I think Johnson had him down as a first team squad member this season, judging by those pre-season training videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Southend fans love Moore, I think he was actually ahead of Vyner for this season before he picked up his injury, I think he only went down to Southend because it was too late to get him something higher, I think Johnson had him down as a first team squad member this season, judging by those pre-season training videos. Reason l considered Vyner maybe ahead is he went to League 2 (Accrington, went to League 1 (Plymouth) now is at Rotherham in a struggling albeit competitive especially at home side. That to me seems a perfect trajectory, development strategy and if he does alright there which after a questionable start he seems to be- then he deserves to step up into first team squad. Moore OTOH? Bury (League One), Cheltenham (League Two), Southend (League One). His contract is up in 2020 so I guess if he gets his chance he will have to take it, but I worry a little that being in the bottom 2 divisions for his loans leaves him one step behind in his development. Ideally his contract would be to 2021 and we could next season make his final loan to a Championship- or even given his mix of English and European football background a decent 2nd tier club in say Germany, that may finish off a fully rounded development. Do we have the luxury of time with that though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 53 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Reason l considered Vyner maybe ahead is he went to League 2 (Accrington, went to League 1 (Plymouth) now is at Rotherham in a struggling albeit competitive especially at home side. That to me seems a perfect trajectory, development strategy and if he does alright there which after a questionable start he seems to be- then he deserves to step up into first team squad. Moore OTOH? Bury (League One), Cheltenham (League Two), Southend (League One). His contract is up in 2020 so I guess if he gets his chance he will have to take it, but I worry a little that being in the bottom 2 divisions for his loans leaves him one step behind in his development. Ideally his contract would be to 2021 and we could next season make his final loan to a Championship- or even given his mix of English and European football background a decent 2nd tier club in say Germany, that may finish off a fully rounded development. Do we have the luxury of time with that though? You have to remember Moore has been highly rated in the England setup too. There is a good player in there just needed the adjustment time from France to England. People write off the loan to Cheltenham but it exposed him to a 46 game season against men in the football league. Taylor reads the game well from what I remember(at CB) and needed to get more physical and learn some of the tricks of the trade. Standing out now a league above at his proper position(mostly in a 3 think some RB too). Vyner on the other hand I think is a long term defensive RB. I rate him at CB but not sure he will ever be big enough(from what I have seen Moore is a couple inches taller and a big bulkier) to compete 46 times in the champ. I know many other CBs without size have succeeded but I don’t see it with Vyner imo. Pring has gotten some minutes along the left side. Usually a sub and maybe a spot start in the checktrade trophy? Like I said before, I think we are lucky Newport took him and gave him chances. Not that he is not good enough but has played nowhere near that level before. Think if I was in charge, I’d see if a conference side needs a LB for the rest of the season where he will play 20 or so matches. He is a bit older so needs the minutes imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 On 16/12/2018 at 14:31, Robbored said: Baker was out of favour at Villa and having been on loan at City accepted the offer to join us. Therefore if you see his career as ‘stalling’ then that’s down to him. He made the Villa 18 man squad in 40 out of 46 league games starting 31 of them. 7 of those 9 sub appearances were in the opening 11 games. After that he was pretty much a 95% starter. Doesn’t sound like out of favour to me? None of us know what’s stalled his career....there hasnt been anything on the OS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, Davefevs said: He made the Villa 18 man squad in 40 out of 46 league games starting 31 of them. 7 of those 9 sub appearances were in the opening 11 games. After that he was pretty much a 95% starter. Doesn’t sound like out of favour to me? None of us know what’s stalled his career....there hasnt been anything on the OS!!! If he wasn’t out of favour why was he allowed to go out loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Robbored said: If he wasn’t out of favour why was he allowed to go out loan? Are you talking about his loan rather than his transfer? My response was related to the transfer. I assumed you were because he didn’t stall or go backwards in his loan spell. He was great! He signed a 4 year contract just before coming to us on loan, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Are you talking about his loan rather than his transfer? My response was related to the transfer. I assumed you were because he didn’t stall or go backwards in his loan spell. He was great! He signed a 4 year contract just before coming to us on loan, If a player is out of favour then a loan move is the best option for all concerned. Baker came to us on loan - why? He subsequently was allowed to leave Villa and signed for us having impressed during his loan spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Robbored said: If a player is out of favour then a loan move is the best option for all concerned. Baker came to us on loan - why? He subsequently was allowed to leave Villa and signed for us having impressed during his loan spell. But he had a full season back at Villa in between!!!!!!!! (See above) He didn’t sign for us straight after loan like Tomlin did (minus the “chase”). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Davefevs said: But he had a full season back at Villa in between!!!!!!!! (See above) He didn’t sign for us straight after loan like Tomlin did (minus the “chase”). He was pretty good during that season between too. Remember seeing Vila fans seriously confused to why he was sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sturny said: He was pretty good during that season between too. Remember seeing Vila fans seriously confused to why he was sold I know. My work colleague was very annoyed. Thought Bakes has really matured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: He made the Villa 18 man squad in 40 out of 46 league games starting 31 of them. 7 of those 9 sub appearances were in the opening 11 games. After that he was pretty much a 95% starter. Doesn’t sound like out of favour to me? None of us know what’s stalled his career....there hasnt been anything on the OS!!! Two words , John Terry . He became surplus to requirement when JT was signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I know. My work colleague was very annoyed. Thought Bakes has really matured. Yeah it was an odd one really, they trained him upto his best then moved him on instantly. but who are we to complain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 18 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: I was a bit nervous seeing Baker in for Webster, but he had a sound game. He's not the classiest of distributors of the ball, but he didn't do anything silly and he made one absolutely excellent tackle when their man (Cantwell, I think) was otherwise clear through. That was a superb tackle. It was right in front of me and Cantwell would have had a one on one if he hadn`t made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 On 16/12/2018 at 07:53, Robbored said: “Stalled and gone a bit backwards?” What do mean by that? He was a fringe player at Villa, so much so he was allowed out on loan and familiar with not being first choice - that’s what competition for places means. Utter tripe as usual....in the season before he joined us permanently Baker played 32 games for Villa - starting 31 of them..their other centre halves that season were: Micah Richards - started one game Tommy Elphick - started 20 games James Chester - started 45 games So, Baker was far from a fringe player..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 7 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Utter tripe as usual....in the season before he joined us permanently Baker played 32 games for Villa - starting 31 of them..their other centre halves that season were: Micah Richards - started one game Tommy Elphick - started 20 games James Chester - started 45 games So, Baker was far from a fringe player..... So why was he allowed out on loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Robbored said: So why was he allowed out on loan? Somewhere along the lines the topic is being confused re his loan . Season 15/16 signs new 4 year deal at “premier league” Villa, having made well over 50 starts,then joins us on loan for the season. Has imho a very good season under both Cotts and LJ Season 16/17 back at Villa, now in Championship, starts 31 of the 40 games he featured in the match day squad of which 29 starts in last 32 games. Season 17/18 signs for Bristol City....permanently. Started well but declined on his return from red card at home to QPR. Which bit are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 I’m asking why Villa allowed him to go out on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, Robbored said: I’m asking why Villa allowed him to go out on loan. Back in 15/16 season? Good question? But I thought the debate was that his career stalled when he went on loan. If that’s not what we are are debating, I’ll step away. I’m obviously debating the wrong thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Back in 15/16 season? Good question? But I thought the debate was that his career stalled when he went on loan. If that’s not what we are are debating, I’ll step away. I’m obviously debating the wrong thing. The debate is about Bakers career “stalling” and I’m saying that by moving to City having been on loan at AG he only has himself to blame. Like most threads on here this one has strayed away from the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 5 hours ago, Robbored said: So why was he allowed out on loan? He wasn’t, we bought him permanently after that season where he started 31 games for Villa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: He wasn’t, we bought him permanently after that season where he started 31 games for Villa... You need to follow something like this mate if you’re going to play with the troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: He wasn’t, we bought him permanently after that season where he started 31 games for Villa... Don’t you thim being at AG on loan from Villa?............... .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Robbored said: Don’t you thim being at AG on loan from Villa?............... .. Not sure that makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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