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Allwaysred

By Allwaysred
in Football Chat

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TBW

TBW

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Newquay-Red said:

You think that I have the time to do that, or that you are worthy of that time? Afraid not mate.

Gambling is deeply embedded into our watching of and consumption of football. Have a look at what Joey Barton said about it following his suspension. Like a decade ago when all the alcoholic beverage sponsors gradually disappeared from football shirts. Plus, I don't think you grasp the concept of 'conscious consumption' whatsoever, since gambling is more of an addiction, and more and more firms want their slice of the pie. You only have to look at Denise Coates' £265m bonus this year ALONE to know that things are in need of serious reform. Gambling prays on the weak through masquerading as fun for the vulnerable, and I happen to know this since one of my closest friends is a gambling addict in recovery. 

I know it's very much a trend on this forum to appear oblivious of trends like this, and laugh them off and demean them, but if you can't see it than maybe there is no point in 'carrying this on', as you say. In ten years time, people will be looking back in disgust in how the situation was, and how supporters and players alike are drawn into it. I liked that we were one of those clubs that didn't have a sponsorship like that. Not because of any obsession with our previous sponsors, but I knew that I had no interest whatsoever in wearing a shirt with a gambling sponsorship on it.

Funny how you didn't make reference to my previous point whatsoever. Because you know that I was right. Setting your decision making purely on the metric of 'hurrdurr that's the most money' is increasingly obsolete policy.

Your turn. Make it a good one.

Not sure what previous point you mean exactly as you tried making a few.

Either way you say we'll look back on it as embarrassing but I don't think we will. Newcastle look back on their Brown Ale sponsorship as iconic, as do Liverpool with Carlsberg.

We shouldn't be responsible for everyone's lack of control. We're in a world where everyone else is blamed for people not being able to control their own lives and these people need to take some responsibility for themselves.

I've never purchased a product or service based on what is on the front of a shirt and I really doubt Dunder have changed the landscape of British gambling. What they have done is invest a significant amount of money into this club and I'm happy to take that and run.

2 hours ago, Arsene's Wanger said:

Dunder or dunderhead has been a common insult in English for centuries, it's as though some one is actively trying to make City look tinpot.

Yeah I've heard it sooo often. Might as well just have "C*×T" on the front of the shirt right?

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The Nest Egg

The Nest Egg

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, TBW said:

Not sure what previous point you mean exactly as you tried making a few.

Either way you say we'll look back on it as embarrassing but I don't think we will. Newcastle look back on their Brown Ale sponsorship as iconic, as do Liverpool with Carlsberg.

We shouldn't be responsible for everyone's lack of control. We're in a world where everyone else is blamed for people not being able to control their own lives and these people need to take some responsibility for themselves.

I've never purchased a product or service based on what is on the front of a shirt and I really doubt Dunder have changed the landscape of British gambling. What they have done is invest a significant amount of money into this club and I'm happy to take that and run.

Yeah I've heard it sooo often. Might as well just have "C*×T" on the front of the shirt right?

I didn't think I would have to actually clarify that I meant the point about only looking at the money when making business decisions. But there you go.

Once again you fall into the trap of not looking at the bigger picture. Do you not even remember the uproar and subsequent reform there was into alcohol sponsors in football? Yes some fans believed it to be an 'iconic' shirt, but they obviously were not the majority in the stakeholders of the matter at hand. I doubt people will miss many of these betting shirt sponsors; particularly the Chinese ones. Newcastle's shirt was iconic as it represented the region's culture; would a betting company do that?

Do you really think that in twenty years people will look back and think 'Yeah the  coverage we have now is alright, but it's ruined for me without Ray Winstone's head popping up every five minutes to pressure me to put a bet on who is going to take the most throw-ins? And why don't these teams have Chinese betting companies slathered all over their shirts?'

And good for you, but just looking at yourself when looking at how people as a whole respond to an issue like this is moronic at best. Another mistake you're making is assuming that I just think that it's Dunder that's the problem. It isn't; it's the entire industry and Dunder is a part of this. Even the biggest gambling companies met recently to see how they can control and moderate the extent of the advertising and promotion that they force upon us. So when even those that are doing it and profiting from it are meeting because they see a problem with it (or they realise that public and government opinion is turning against them and they need to appear proactive), you don't see a problem? Well aren't you a special little snowflake, and a superior mind.

It's obvious here that I'm talking to a particularly unsympathetic brick wall, who sees themselves as an island from all the world's problems. Thankfully, that's a stance that appears to be dying out. Because we are a lot closer to these problems than most believe, and addiction is an insidious force that can take the most normal and seemingly rational of people and consume them. I hope you don't have anyone in your family or immediate social circle who suffers from these problems, be it gambling, alcoholism or a drug addiction. If you did, I think your attitude would be significantly different, and a lot less condescending.

Even big gambling companies know they are getting away with too much.

 

 

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Arsene's Wanger

Arsene's Wanger

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, TBW said:

Not sure what previous point you mean exactly as you tried making a few.

Either way you say we'll look back on it as embarrassing but I don't think we will. Newcastle look back on their Brown Ale sponsorship as iconic, as do Liverpool with Carlsberg.

We shouldn't be responsible for everyone's lack of control. We're in a world where everyone else is blamed for people not being able to control their own lives and these people need to take some responsibility for themselves.

I've never purchased a product or service based on what is on the front of a shirt and I really doubt Dunder have changed the landscape of British gambling. What they have done is invest a significant amount of money into this club and I'm happy to take that and run.

Yeah I've heard it sooo often. Might as well just have "C*×T" on the front of the shirt right?

Is that actually a company though?

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TBW

TBW

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Newquay-Red said:

I didn't think I would have to actually clarify that I meant the point about only looking at the money when making business decisions. But there you go.

Once again you fall into the trap of not looking at the bigger picture. Do you not even remember the uproar and subsequent reform there was into alcohol sponsors in football? Yes some fans believed it to be an 'iconic' shirt, but they obviously were not the majority in the stakeholders of the matter at hand. I doubt people will miss many of these betting shirt sponsors; particularly the Chinese ones. Newcastle's shirt was iconic as it represented the region's culture; would a betting company do that?

Do you really think that in twenty years people will look back and think 'Yeah the  coverage we have now is alright, but it's ruined for me without Ray Winstone's head popping up every five minutes to pressure me to put a bet on who is going to take the most throw-ins? And why don't these teams have Chinese betting companies slathered all over their shirts?'

And good for you, but just looking at yourself when looking at how people as a whole respond to an issue like this is moronic at best. Another mistake you're making is assuming that I just think that it's Dunder that's the problem. It isn't; it's the entire industry and Dunder is a part of this. Even the biggest gambling companies met recently to see how they can control and moderate the extent of the advertising and promotion that they force upon us. So when even those that are doing it and profiting from it are meeting because they see a problem with it (or they realise that public and government opinion is turning against them and they need to appear proactive), you don't see a problem? Well aren't you a special little snowflake, and a superior mind.

It's obvious here that I'm talking to a particularly unsympathetic brick wall, who sees themselves as an island from all the world's problems. Thankfully, that's a stance that appears to be dying out. Because we are a lot closer to these problems than most believe, and addiction is an insidious force that can take the most normal and seemingly rational of people and consume them. I hope you don't have anyone in your family or immediate social circle who suffers from these problems, be it gambling, alcoholism or a drug addiction. If you did, I think your attitude would be significantly different, and a lot less condescending.

Even big gambling companies know they are getting away with too much.

If it's not against the rules and they're the highest bidder, so be it. Why should we set ourselves rules that would hold us back from gaining as much investment as possible whilst other teams carry on and have the money to spend?

We aren't a special case who are going to just be alright without it because we've got a rich owner. There has to be some sustainability about how we move forwards financially and Dunder have contributed towards that at present.

There was too much of a shortfall between Dunder and Lancer Scott for us to turn down the money.

If you had a family member offer to buy your house for £200,000 or a rather unsightly family offering £250,000, whose deal you taking?

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PhilC

PhilC

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

Then you are very blinkered like many.. Be intresting to raise the question at the next AGM and see what you get back. 

What makes you think I am blinkered then? Please explain? 

You seem to think they should be investing in the squad where as, as others have pointed out, they are investing in sponsoring Bristol City FC. It's up to the club (or rather Bristol Sport) where that money is invested. 

Perhaps you should raise the question at the next AGM / fans forum if you feel so strongly about this?

As I said, you appear to be doing this intentionally, perhaps to get a reaction (And indeed, it is working)

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The Nest Egg

The Nest Egg

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Posted
31 minutes ago, TBW said:

If it's not against the rules and they're the highest bidder, so be it. Why should we set ourselves rules that would hold us back from gaining as much investment as possible whilst other teams carry on and have the money to spend?

We aren't a special case who are going to just be alright without it because we've got a rich owner. There has to be some sustainability about how we move forwards financially and Dunder have contributed towards that at present.

There was too much of a shortfall between Dunder and Lancer Scott for us to turn down the money.

If you had a family member offer to buy your house for £200,000 or a rather unsightly family offering £250,000, whose deal you taking?

And there is the difference between you and I. Thankfully your attitude is a dying breed- literally.

You'd screw over a family member for fifty thousand measly pounds? Glad I'm not related to you.

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Allwaysred

Allwaysred

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As you think it's simply a shirt sponsor. I'm not saying there here to plough endless money in to the team but in there statement they said they will invest so where is it being invested. We are now becoming a massive corporate venture so we are not talking small sums are we so how have we benefited so far?? 

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Crackers Corner

Crackers Corner

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

As you think it's simply a shirt sponsor. I'm not saying there here to plough endless money in to the team but in there statement they said they will invest so where is it being invested. We are now becoming a massive corporate venture so we are not talking small sums are we so how have we benefited so far?? 

Do you have a link to the statement?

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/city-reveal-online-casino-company-dunder-as-new-front-of-shirt-sponsor/

no mention of anything other than a standard kit sponsorship there unless you have another statement?

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Allwaysred

Allwaysred

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10 hours ago, wood_red said:

Where to?? Cannot see where it says they will invest in the team.....

 

Launched in 2016 by two Swedish casino enthusiasts, Dunder has become known as one of the most innovative online casino companies, with a focus on simplicity, fairness and making gaming fun with its player-first approach.

“We are delighted to announce our partnership with Bristol City. Last year’s fantastic Carabao Cup run really captured both ours and the UK public’s imagination,” said Adam Webber, Dunder’s head of acquisition.

“After meeting the club and seeing first hand how the team played against Manchester United and Manchester City in the cup, it felt a great fit to our company ethos in doing things the right way. This along with the strong sense of community involvement and passion, really stood out from the start.

“We at Dunder are very excited about what this venture will bring as we sincerely believe our investment will be able to make a significant contribution to the club achieving its long-term aspiration of playing in the Premier League. We want to invest not just in City but in the wider Bristol community as well.”

Bristol Sport’s group head of commercial, Caroline Herbert, said: “We are delighted that Dunder has joined our sporting group as City's principal partner. Our thanks to Lancer Scott, who agreed to step down and allow us to take this opportunity of attracting an international company’s investment, which we hope will help City continue to grow and build on the successes of last season.

"Our shared values alongside Dunder’s commitment to promoting responsible gambling and investing in the community will ensure that this partnership is a huge positive for City. We are very much looking forward to what the 2018/19 campaign will bring."

 

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PhilC

PhilC

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

As you think it's simply a shirt sponsor. I'm not saying there here to plough endless money in to the team but in there statement they said they will invest so where is it being invested. We are now becoming a massive corporate venture so we are not talking small sums are we so how have we benefited so far?? 

Ok. I am not going to disagree with the above as I am not one for conflict on OTIB, although I will say to call me blinkered was perhaps a little unnecessary. However, I feel as though you have just misinterpreted the statement.

 

Good luck in your quest to asking these questions to those who may be able to give you some answers though.

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Allwaysred

Allwaysred

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Posted
2 minutes ago, PhilC said:

Ok. I am not going to disagree with the above as I am not one for conflict on OTIB, although I will say to call me blinkered was perhaps a little unnecessary. However, I feel as though you have just misinterpreted the statement.

 

Good luck in your quest to asking these questions to those who may be able to give you some answers though.

All will become clear PhilC

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Crackers Corner

Crackers Corner

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

As you think it's simply a shirt sponsor. I'm not saying there here to plough endless money in to the team but in there statement they said they will invest so where is it being invested. We are now becoming a massive corporate venture so we are not talking small sums are we so how have we benefited so far?? 

Ok just reread your post, just to take a couple of points, a sponsorship is an investment, this doesn’t mean that they are investing in the team and amounts they will give won’t but a new squad . We lose millions every year just to try and compete in the championship so this will help cover some of our losses and the day to day running of the club. City most definitely are not a “massive corporate venture” on any scale. We are building something in my view but not currently in the same league as many other clubs financially.

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1bristolcity

1bristolcity

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

As you think it's simply a shirt sponsor. I'm not saying there here to plough endless money in to the team but in there statement they said they will invest so where is it being invested. We are now becoming a massive corporate venture so we are not talking small sums are we so how have we benefited so far?? 

Benefited? We haven't, just embarrassed the ethics of the Club, I didn't want the club to go down this route, you know Gambling Pay Day Loans etc, but we did and are a lot poorer for it, morally anyway. At least many can't see what Dunder is they just want a piece of the action as another, a parasitic money grabbing outfit that preys on the vulnerable...

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TBW

TBW

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Newquay-Red said:

And there is the difference between you and I. Thankfully your attitude is a dying breed- literally.

You'd screw over a family member for fifty thousand measly pounds? Glad I'm not related to you.

It's not screwing them over, it's making the most of your own investment on your assets. May as well just hand over £50k for no reason...

Estate Agency: "your house is worth £250k."

Random: "I'd like to offer you £250k."

Family: "I'll give you £200k."

... You'd seriously give up a fifth of your investments worth just because someone asked you to?

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BCFC11

BCFC11

Posted
Posted

It’s a sponsor that is all, our biggest ever in fact, doesn’t stand out and look as bad on our shirts as some on here think, I hardly even notice anyone’s shirt sponsors, don’t know about anyone else? Bar one or two on here, no one had even heard of Dunder before they invested in the club, so I’d imagine the same goes for most other clubs fans. Clearly was a good deal for the club as Lancer Scott kindly have way for the deal to go ahead.

Could be worse.......

AC74B041-2946-4767-8FFA-B2F2FD9647E6.thumb.png.4f00a8c474693b0d47e24ad260020dc1.png

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