Emiliano Sala

[Super]

Sent a voice message saying the plane was falling apart. So sad.

[Dollymarie]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

Sent a voice message saying the plane was falling apart. So sad.

"I'm on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart, and I'm leaving for Cardiff," Sala said in a WhatsApp audio message carried by Argentine media.

"If in an hour and a half you have no news from me, I don't know if they will send people to look for me, because they will not find me, you know. Dad, I'm so scared," he added.

 Surely someone checks that planes are fit to fly? 

[alexukhc]

16 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

"I'm on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart, and I'm leaving for Cardiff," Sala said in a WhatsApp audio message carried by Argentine media.

"If in an hour and a half you have no news from me, I don't know if they will send people to look for me, because they will not find me, you know. Dad, I'm so scared," he added.

OMG that’s awful

[Taz]

15 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

"I'm on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart, and I'm leaving for Cardiff," Sala said in a WhatsApp audio message carried by Argentine media.

"If in an hour and a half you have no news from me, I don't know if they will send people to look for me, because they will not find me, you know. Dad, I'm so scared," he added.

 Surely someone checks that planes are fit to fly? 

Well going by that message, and the previous comments about making numerous attempts to take off, I'd say that somebody didn't check that one. If, of course, this is all true.

Realistically, this is now going to go one of two ways - bodies are found, or no bodies are found, and the people on board are presumed dead. Tragic, and what makes it even worse, is that the more you hear, the more it looks like the plane should never have been in the air in the first place.

[poland_exile]

43 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

"I'm on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart, and I'm leaving for Cardiff," Sala said in a WhatsApp audio message carried by Argentine media.

"If in an hour and a half you have no news from me, I don't know if they will send people to look for me, because they will not find me, you know. Dad, I'm so scared," he added.

 Surely someone checks that planes are fit to fly? 

bloody hell, that's just beyond crazy.... 

[RedM]

1 hour ago, Dollymarie said:

"I'm on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart, and I'm leaving for Cardiff," Sala said in a WhatsApp audio message carried by Argentine media.

"If in an hour and a half you have no news from me, I don't know if they will send people to look for me, because they will not find me, you know. Dad, I'm so scared," he added.

 Surely someone checks that planes are fit to fly? 

I can only quote about hot air balloons as I know about them, but they have a yearly MOT, a C of A ( certificate of airworthiness). The pilots also log every flying hour it does in a log book.  I guess it’s the same or stricter for any aircraft. Hot air pilots also do a load of pre flight checks, testing all equipment throughly and also a full visual check of the balloon, basket etc. Even if they have flown earlier that day they do the checks throughly again if they fly a few hours later, it’s something drummed into them, they don’t cut corners. Many passengers might think the pilot is ignoring their questions, but it’s because he/she is concentrating on safety.

I would think any pilot of any aircraft would do the same. Obviously things can suddenly fail, the helicopter of the Leicester owner a couple of months ago. 

Each flying craft has a registration G- xxxx if they are registered in the UK, there are websites you can look up ownership etc, sometimes details such as lightening strikes are noted. 

The message you quote is alarming of course, but this was probably the smallest plane the player had ever been on. Every rattle is going to be more frightening compared to a jumbo jet. I’m in no way dismissing his concerns, which have been proven, but just saying most people wouldn’t find it a comfortable experience I don’t think.

i am surprised such small planes are used to fly at night. Not saying if something was going to happen leaving it a few hours later until daylight would have had a different outcome, but surely the darkness didn’t help the search and rescue. I know they have thermal imaging etc. A very sad situation for all involved.

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Taz said:

Well going by that message, and the previous comments about making numerous attempts to take off, I'd say that somebody didn't check that one. If, of course, this is all true.

Realistically, this is now going to go one of two ways - bodies are found, or no bodies are found, and the people on board are presumed dead. Tragic, and what makes it even worse, is that the more you hear, the more it looks like the plane should never have been in the air in the first place.

The PA-46 has been well known for engine reliability issues/general servicing difficulty for many years-even to the point of lawsuit.

By reports maintaining 2000ft before disappearing from radar-which is really no safety margin to play with in crappy weather....

Thoughts with family/friends of those involved-and that there are answers to the many questions to be addressed..

Edited January 23, 2019 by Robert the bruce

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

I can only quote about hot air balloons as I know about them, but they have a yearly MOT, a C of A ( certificate of airworthiness). The pilots also log every flying hour it does in a log book.  I guess it’s the same or stricter for any aircraft. Hot air pilots also do a load of pre flight checks, testing all equipment throughly and also a full visual check of the balloon, basket etc. Even if they have flown earlier that day they do the checks throughly again if they fly a few hours later, it’s something drummed into them, they don’t cut corners. Many passengers might think the pilot is ignoring their questions, but it’s because he/she is concentrating on safety.

I would think any pilot of any aircraft would do the same. Obviously things can suddenly fail, the helicopter of the Leicester owner a couple of months ago. 

Each flying craft has a registration G- xxxx if they are registered in the UK, there are websites you can look up ownership etc, sometimes details such as lightening strikes are noted. 

The message you quote is alarming of course, but this was probably the smallest plane the player had ever been on. Every rattle is going to be more frightening compared to a jumbo jet. I’m in no way dismissing his concerns, which have been proven, but just saying most people wouldn’t find it a comfortable experience I don’t think.

i am surprised such small planes are used to fly at night. Not saying if something was going to happen leaving it a few hours later until daylight would have had a different outcome, but surely the darkness didn’t help the search and rescue. I know they have thermal imaging etc. A very sad situation for all involved.

Indeed. One thing also worth mentioning is the plane was presumably flown by a qualified pilot who presumably knew the plane, would have been experienced flying it and would have been risking their own life if they took off when they did not believe it to be safe to do so.

Of course, people make errors or reckless decisions in all walks of life but I do think people need to be a bit careful over-speculating as we are effectively making assumptions about the judgement and competence of a man who is likely to have also died in this incident. Once the plane is found, there will obviously be an investigation that will hopefully uncover any mistakes made or lessons to be learned but I do feel it a bit premature for us to speculate too much on what has happened.

[RedM]

This is from the BBC site, the person quoted is the Cardiff City Chairman:

The "family of football has a way of coming together at times of tragedy," Mr Dalman told BBC Radio Wales' Good Morning Wales programme.

He also confirmed that the club had not booked the plane for the trip, adding that Sala had "made his own arrangements".

"We will not leave a single stone unturned until we have all the facts," added Mr Dalman.

[PHILINFRANCE]

 

37 minutes ago, RedM said:

This is from the BBC site, the person quoted is the Cardiff City Chairman:

He also confirmed that the club had not booked the plane for the trip, adding that Sala had "made his own arrangements".

"We will not leave a single stone unturned until we have all the facts," added Mr Dalman.

The facts will undoubtedly out in the coming days, but the French press said yesterday that the plane belonged to Cardiff's 'owner'.

The local press have also quoted Sala's vocal WhatsApp message, wherein he says he is scared that the plane is going to fall apart, but I would imagine (hope!) that, as @RedM suggested in an earlier post, this was just the view of somebody unfamiliar with flying in such small planes.

Over the years, I have flown (as a passenger) in numerous small planes throughout France, including a horrific flight from Brest where the plane was so small that I had to crouch to get to my seat, and whilst I confess to having been extremely nervous (read - scared shitless) - it was also raining heavily at the time - the sight of the sole stewardess laughing at me and my obvious fear seemed, in some strange way,  to calm me down: she was obviously used to the daily journey, whereas I could only compare it to some Disney-like horror ride.  

[oldstandrobin]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

I can only quote about hot air balloons as I know about them, but they have a yearly MOT, a C of A ( certificate of airworthiness). The pilots also log every flying hour it does in a log book.  I guess it’s the same or stricter for any aircraft. Hot air pilots also do a load of pre flight checks, testing all equipment throughly and also a full visual check of the balloon, basket etc. Even if they have flown earlier that day they do the checks throughly again if they fly a few hours later, it’s something drummed into them, they don’t cut corners. Many passengers might think the pilot is ignoring their questions, but it’s because he/she is concentrating on safety.

I would think any pilot of any aircraft would do the same. Obviously things can suddenly fail, the helicopter of the Leicester owner a couple of months ago. 

Each flying craft has a registration G- xxxx if they are registered in the UK, there are websites you can look up ownership etc, sometimes details such as lightening strikes are noted. 

The message you quote is alarming of course, but this was probably the smallest plane the player had ever been on. Every rattle is going to be more frightening compared to a jumbo jet. I’m in no way dismissing his concerns, which have been proven, but just saying most people wouldn’t find it a comfortable experience I don’t think.

i am surprised such small planes are used to fly at night. Not saying if something was going to happen leaving it a few hours later until daylight would have had a different outcome, but surely the darkness didn’t help the search and rescue. I know they have thermal imaging etc. A very sad situation for all involved.

Red, concur with that. As stated earlier I used to own a Cessna Aerobat which I operated from Lulsgate.Because I rented it back to the flying club, it was on what was called a Public Transport C of A. This entailed an annual check plus a check every 60 days , even if it had not been flown. It got costly in this country ( because of the engineering fees, hangarage etc ) so I had to sell it. I have flown 6 seaters to France and once , loaded with passengers, and duty free in the hold, whilst doing pre take off checks, a magneto fault was highlighted, so back to the flying club and abandon of trip. The call is always with the Pilot and I for one flew safe as I valued my life, but being trained in the RAF helped. I flew many variants up to a Jet Provost but the simple laws are still there. Weather. State of aircraft. Is the pilot certified on Night flying and also Instrument Flying. Slowly we will know the truth so until we hear the total facts, we can only make assumptions based on our knowledge.

Edited January 23, 2019 by oldstandrobin

[Super]

Apparently there was a life raft on board the plane.

[Super]

Guernsey Police @GuernseyPolice

 

 

1/2

9.30am

We are searching based on four possibilities:

1. They have landed elsewhere but not made contact.
2. They landed on water, have been picked up by a passing ship but not made contact
3. They landed on water and made it into the life raft we know was on board

[Spike]

3 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

"I'm on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart, and I'm leaving for Cardiff," Sala said in a WhatsApp audio message carried by Argentine media.

"If in an hour and a half you have no news from me, I don't know if they will send people to look for me, because they will not find me, you know. Dad, I'm so scared," he added.

 Surely someone checks that planes are fit to fly? 

This genuinely makes me feel sick, I hate flying, the idea of getting on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart and then doesn't start, no way I would have got on it.
What I don't understand is why he got on it, surely after making a big money transfer he would have been in a position to say "I don't feel comfortable getting on that plane!". That said, I suppose it's easy to say that with hindsight. I just can't imagine what his father must be thinking right now.

[Super]

Guernsey Police @GuernseyPolice

 

 

2/2

4. The aircraft broke up on contact with the water, leaving them in the sea.

Our search area is prioritised on the life raft option.

[reddogkev]

Also wish to add my deepest sympathies to Nantes FC, it is clear they are suffering and feel like they have lost a much-loved son.

You are in all of our thoughts, the people of Nantes.

[reddogkev]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

This genuinely makes me feel sick, I hate flying, the idea of getting on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart and then doesn't start, no way I would have got on it.
What I don't understand is why he got on it, surely after making a big money transfer he would have been in a position to say "I don't feel comfortable getting on that plane!". That said, I suppose it's easy to say that with hindsight. I just can't imagine what his father must be thinking right now.

I've been considering that, and it's the reason I don't believe the veracity of these messages.  You simply wouldn't risk getting on a plane that you didn't feel comfortable with, and the pilot wouldn't fly it if there were any issues, you would presume.

This is probably all fabricated on the internet.

[poland_exile]

6 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

I've been considering that, and it's the reason I don't believe the veracity of these messages.  You simply wouldn't risk getting on a plane that you didn't feel comfortable with, and the pilot wouldn't fly it if there were any issues, you would presume.

This is probably all fabricated on the internet.

I wouldn't agree, I think there's many instances in life you do things you're uncomfortable with under the reasoning "it'll never happen to me".

You simply don't expect to die while travelling in the developed world. 

Further, I'd speculate a lot goes down to a person's character. Doubt he wanted to miss his first day in training because he was 'scared of getting on a plane' or look like a skiving big time charlie by missing his first session, etc., etc. 

[Super]

Should we have a new thread for Dean Horrix? Not sure it should be in this thread.

[LondonBristolian]

13 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

I wouldn't agree, I think there's many instances in life you do things you're uncomfortable with under the reasoning "it'll never happen to me".

You simply don't expect to die while travelling in the developed world. 

Further, I'd speculate a lot goes down to a person's character. Doubt he wanted to miss his first day in training because he was 'scared of getting on a plane' or look like a skiving big time charlie by missing his first session, etc., etc. 

The other thing is you trust the pilot. I once boarded a commercial flight that was delayed for two hours, then had what was announced as a “final attempt to to see if we can fix it tonight” and then, once we had all boarded, had a power cut-out when they turned it on before taxiing. I was scared and concerned when they still carried on anyway but said nothing as I rationalised the pilots knew what they were doing, it was a commercial air company that had a reputation to protect and so it must be safe or else they would not be doing it. Often you just assume and trust professionals know what they are doing.

[poland_exile]

30 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

The other thing is you trust the pilot. I once boarded a commercial flight that was delayed for two hours, then had what was announced as a “final attempt to to see if we can fix it tonight” and then, once we had all boarded, had a power cut-out when they turned it on before taxiing. I was scared and concerned when they still carried on anyway but said nothing as I rationalised the pilots knew what they were doing, it was a commercial air company that had a reputation to protect and so it must be safe or else they would not be doing it. Often you just assume and trust professionals know what they are doing.

totally - it's in our nature to trust that others know what they're doing in their profession of choosing.

I'm not, incidentally, casting aspersions on the pilot - it's just that when i board a plane, no matter what the conditions, I'm fully expecting to land in one piece. No-one in their right mind would fly if they were told, 'by the way, there's a good chance we might not make it.' I imagine Sala was the same. Likewise, I'd be pretty confident that the pilot had every expectation of completing the flight. 

I can't get my head round this story. Feel so sorry for all those personally effected. 

[Super]

Dalman says the flight was certainly not organised by the club, which rules out the possibility of it being Tan’s plane I should think.

According to Simon Jordan, agents usually organise travel in these instances and invoice the club.

[slartibartfast]

News just said  there's a reasonable chance they are in a life raft................must have some good reason for coming out with that 

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

News just said  there's a reasonable chance they are in a life raft................must have some good reason for coming out with that 

Fingers and everything else crossed! 

[Taz]

21 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

News just said  there's a reasonable chance they are in a life raft................must have some good reason for coming out with that 

Surely they would have been spotted by now with the amount of planes that would have been out searching though? 

You really hope that this is the case, but part of me thinks that things like that are being said more in hope than anything else.

[JoeAman08]

4 minutes ago, Taz said:

Surely they would have been spotted by now with the amount of planes that would have been out searching though? 

You really hope that this is the case, but part of me thinks that things like that are being said more in hope than anything else.

I agree with what you are saying but hope is still a good thing. Think we are all aware the longer not found the odds of a happy ending dwindle but I still hope they can be found alive. 

[Jerseybean]

Here is the latest Jersey media account: 

https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/emiliano-sala-whatsapp-tributes-vigil/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Bailiwick Express - Jersey News Email&utm_content=Bailiwick Express - Jersey News Email+CID_3ae0fd4362b975e326e5b69e1241f2b5&utm_source=Email marketing software&utm_term=READ MORE#.XEhagBqnyf0

 

 

[BRISTOL86]

Speculation online that the pilot was vastly experienced with 100+ single engine channel crossings. 

What I can’t fathom is why not fly commercial. At night in the middle of winter, it just seems such an unnecessary risk. You can fly through AMS and be in Cardiff in 4 hours. 

[CliftonCliff]

5 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Speculation online that the pilot was vastly experienced with 100+ single engine channel crossings. 

What I can’t fathom is why not fly commercial. At night in the middle of winter, it just seems such an unnecessary risk. You can fly through AMS and be in Cardiff in 4 hours. 

I haven’t read everything that’s been written on this aspect of the story, so apologies if this has already been covered, but I’m not clear whether this was a flight being provided by a properly registered and regulated commercial operator, albeit on a private charter basis, or just an arrangement with some bloke with a private pilot’s licence and a single engined plane. If it’s the latter then I agree it does seem a strange thing to do. Experienced pilot or not, I’m pretty sure air accident statistics would show you are safer flying with a commercial operator. I have been on short flights in light aircraft on numerous occasions just for fun, and enjoyed it, but I’m buggered if I’d undertake something like this. You just feel so sorry for the poor sod: like others I have been surprised at my own reactions and just how upsetting I’ve found it. Very, very sad.

[BRISTOL86]

3 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

I haven’t read everything that’s been written on this aspect of the story, so apologies if this has already been covered, but I’m not clear whether this was a flight being provided by a properly registered and regulated commercial operator, albeit on a private charter basis, or just an arrangement with some bloke with a private pilot’s licence and a single engined plane. If it’s the latter then I agree it does seem a strange thing to do. Experienced pilot or not, I’m pretty sure air accident statistics would show you are safer flying with a commercial operator. I have been on short flights in light aircraft on numerous occasions just for fun, and enjoyed it, but I’m buggered if I’d undertake something like this. You just feel so sorry for the poor sod: like others I have been surprised at my own reactions and just how upsetting I’ve found it. Very, very sad.

Sure everything will come out in the fullness of time regarding how and by whom the flight was arranged.

The whole thing just seems very odd - IFR flight over water in the dark in a single engine, in conditions where icing is likely to be present. Pretty much everything you’d want to avoid, and when it was so avoidable, it seems incredible that those risks were taken when a (not difficult) commercial alternative was available.