The Summer Transfer Window

[Sturny]

12 minutes ago, keflav said:

May not be weaker but defo not the improvement we had all hoped would have happened this BOLD summer...

Yeah feels like we kept the strengths of last season but also didn't fill in the holes 

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This maybe worth a look- fees can be hit and miss but look at the last 4 or 5 summers.

Still a little while left but how do you factor in:

a) The possibility of systems getting some more from those within- thinking more Weimann centrally with the right support and midfield base.

b) The £25m loss in 2017/18 being on our books- I was pro pushing the boat out for £10m Vydra plus assopciated wages but didn't anticipate the trouble we would have shifting fringe players- yes other clubs play a role here as we have to have a market to move them on. Were it summer 2020 with that loss having dropped off the books it would be feasible! Just one example.

c) What market value! Take a look at this site and though the fees aren't always on point, it's quite accurate as a whole.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2/plus/?saison_id=2019&s_w=s&leihe=0&intern=0

@Davefevs you might also be interested in this. It often throws it up in euros but found a £ one. Thoroughly reinforces what you've said in the OP!

Look back at the prior 3-4 seasons- bottom has fallen out the market a bit this summer at this level- this impacts our business as we cannot move players on so easily and with one eye on FFP we're waiting for dominos to fall- not just in terms of pecking order but trading our way to upgrades!

I have posted this link twice before but some people really don't want to know the facts. They want to believe what they want to believe, which is that it simple to just go out and sign proven goalscorer but the club just aren't trying.

 

[Jerseybean]

44 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I think the OP meant to say the fee would've been closer to £10m if the deal had been done at the end of the summer

Yep I misread it, think you are right AG.

[Banjo Island]

Still heavily reliant on marlon pack in mdfield can we realisticaly rely on marlon for another 40 plus games hes not getting any younger an upgrade in this postion is way overdue

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I have posted this link twice before but some people really don't want to know the facts. They want to believe what they want to believe, which is that it simple to just go out and sign proven goalscorer but the club just aren't trying.

 

Thought I'd seen it somewhere!

[EmissionImpossible]

Seems to be a fair few ‘ football manager/championship manager’ people on OTIB. I bet MA and LJ wish it was as easy as some people make out.

[keflav]

25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This link I have a bit further down maybe worth a look- fees can be hit and miss but look at this summer then use the drop down menu for the previous 4 or 5 summers.

Still a little while left but how do you factor in:

a) The possibility of systems getting some more from those within- thinking more Weimann centrally with the right support and midfield base.

b) The £25m loss in 2017/18 being on our books- I was pro pushing the boat out for £10m Vydra plus associatediated wages but didn't anticipate the trouble we would have shifting fringe players- yes other clubs play a role here as we have to have a market to move them on. Were it summer 2020 with that loss having dropped off the books it would be feasible! Just one example.

c) What market value! Take a look at this site and though the fees aren't always on point, it's quite accurate as a whole.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2/plus/?saison_id=2019&s_w=s&leihe=0&intern=0

@Davefevs you might also be interested in this. It often throws it up in euros but found a £ one. Thoroughly reinforces what you've said in the OP!

Look back at the prior 3-4 seasons- bottom has fallen out the market a bit this summer at this level- this impacts our business as we cannot move players on so easily and with one eye on FFP we're waiting for dominos to fall- not just in terms of pecking order but trading our way to upgrades!

Creative solutions.

Potential solution 1 for us and a striker. Offer Burnley maybe a loan fee and wages covered with an obligation or option to buy for £10m next summer.

Potential solution 2 for us and our fringe players- Offer Baker, Watkins out for loan with an option/obligation to buy next summer. Work out some balance between loan fee and wage coverage to give the clubs the incentive.

Potential solution 3 for us and other fringe players- Take a bit of a hit on O'Dowda fee say if he won't renew and Wright if we want some income now to help us this season and moving forward in the calculations.

Potential solution 4- Maybe even consider selling Vyner as he's an academy player, in conjunction with some of the above to raise some quick income.

We can't magic away that £25m loss in 2017/18 though, we just can't- or the fairly subdued market activities at this level.

As you rightly point out the figures don't lie and we cant just get away from previous losses, but here's my question how come other teams seem to be able to do it and not get penalised on the FFP (this is a genuine question it just baffles me???)

At the end of it all its no good us risking it all just for a striker (like your points above) just disappointment its been going on for many season now 

[Major Isewater]

I get the impression that trying to sign any new player these days is far from straight forward but when you start to look at the level of player we ideally want to be signing then the task appears nigh on impossible in the time limit allocated.

To then try and bring in multiple signings...

Ashton and company must be working around the clock on this . If they get it wrong we could be in the brown stuff so MA is really earning his corn at the moment.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, keflav said:

As you rightly point out the figures don't lie and we cant just get away from previous losses, but here's my question how come other teams seem to be able to do it and not get penalised on the FFP (this is a genuine question it just baffles me???)

At the end of it all its no good us risking it all just for a striker (like your points above) just disappointment its been going on for many season now 

I'd put it down to pisspoor governance personally. God knows what's happened there but there should be a full investigation into which idiot seemed to change the rule of stadia sales offsetting losses and why. I think I can guess who and they are no longer with the EFL- but this summer there has been a notable downturn in permanent deals or big fees to date- the best comparison is summer on summer windows, we'll see what it looks like in a week and a half.

Good piece on the possible man in question who was CEO of the EFL in that timeframe of pisspoor governance.

https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1552127709/

I understand the disappointment too, was hoping for a bigger push this summer but that was also partly dependent on players departing. It's overall been a decent window IMO but...as you say striker.

[keflav]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd put it down to pisspoor governance personally. God knows what's happened there but there should be a full investigation into which idiot seemed to change the rule of stadia sales offsetting losses and why. I think I can guess who and they are no longer with the EFL- but this summer there has been a notable downturn in permanent deals or big fees to date- the best comparison is summer on summer windows, we'll see what it looks like in a week and a half.

Good piece on the possible man in question who was CEO the EFL in that timeframe of pisspoor governance.

https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1552127709/

I understand the disappointment too, was hoping for a bigger push this summer but that was partly dependent on players departing.

Agree was a very good read and seems unbelievable what went on!!!!

[chinapig]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd put it down to pisspoor governance personally. God knows what's happened there but there should be a full investigation into which idiot seemed to change the rule of stadia sales offsetting losses and why. I think I can guess who and they are no longer with the EFL- but this summer there has been a notable downturn in permanent deals or big fees to date- the best comparison is summer on summer windows, we'll see what it looks like in a week and a half.

Good piece on the possible man in question who was CEO of the EFL in that timeframe of pisspoor governance.

https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1552127709/

I understand the disappointment too, was hoping for a bigger push this summer but that was also partly dependent on players departing. It's overall been a decent window IMO but...as you say striker.

Thanks for the link, a superb piece, the kind of thing the football media should be doing.

Does anyone believe the change in the rules on stadium sales was anything but deliberate and at the behest of the clubs who benefited from it?

[downendcity]

44 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I have posted this link twice before but some people really don't want to know the facts. They want to believe what they want to believe, which is that it simple to just go out and sign proven goalscorer but the club just aren't trying.

 

What other championship clubs have signed this mythical 20 goal a season, proven at this level, championship striker?

If he exists, and is that bloody good at our level, why would his club want to sell him?

I think some fans think that you type in '20 goal a season championship strikers" into Amazon, choose one then click buy ( using Amazon Prime to avoid postage charges on top of the transfer fee)using SL's debit card  and the job is done.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Thanks for the link, a superb piece, the kind of thing the football media should be doing.

Does anyone believe the change in the rules on stadium sales was anything but deliberate and at the behest of the clubs who benefited from it?

Yep- football media are very poor on this guy atm- this piece puts their "efforts" to shame.

With Shaun Harvey, he's that useless it's sometimes hard to tell!

However I agree- but that raises significant questions for the EFL as without wishing to derail this thread, I very much doubt 18/24 clubs agreed to it- I'd love to see evidence of a vote on it where clubs agreed, with the necessary majority to amend this rule- unless it was just bundled in with the general change.

[Wrongagain]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

A major rebuild can just just as much harm as good,

look at stoke last season for a prime example

Totally agree, but the midfield core did not change much last season either, 17/18 midfield was the same core with the same players showing the same form, many of the dips we suffered were because the midfield as a unit went missing.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yep- football media are very poor on this guy atm- this piece puts their "efforts" to shame.

With Shaun Harvey, he's that useless it's sometimes hard to tell!

However I agree- but that raises significant questions for the EFL as without wishing to derail this thread, I very much doubt 18/24 clubs agreed to it- I'd love to see evidence of a vote on it where clubs agreed, with the necessary majority to amend this rule- unless it was just bundled in with the general change.

The fact that none of them supported Steve Gibson suggests they are perfectly happy with the arrangement.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Totally agree, but the midfield core did not change much last season either, 17/18 midfield was the same core with the same players showing the same form, many of the dips we suffered were because the midfield as a unit went missing.

Same core, same players- but for our most fluid period a very different system and setup.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Cardiff city finished 2nd top scorer got less goals then fammy did last season

 

And then were relegated due to lack of goals and quality up front.

[Bazooka Joe]

47 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I get the impression that trying to sign any new player these days is far from straight forward but when you start to look at the level of player we ideally want to be signing then the task appears nigh on impossible in the time limit allocated.

To then try and bring in multiple signings...

Ashton and company must be working around the clock on this . If they get it wrong we could be in the brown stuff so MA is really earning his corn at the moment.

Hark! What's that I hear getting louder each day.

 

[AppyDAZE]

I've got visions now of Johnson and Ashton on some kind of game show, stood there together with the host saying "now you have 60 seconds to come up with the answer"

LJ: My mind has gone totally blank, help

MA: Don't ask me ffs

LJ: Well, think

MA: Oh God, Nathan Thompson?

LJ: I said a STRIKER

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

And then were relegated due to lack of goals and quality up front.

Didn't get the best out of what they had too in that respect IMO- happily.

Camarasa behind Reid in those latter stages where they had to go for broke may have pushed them over the line a bit.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Didn't get the best out of what they had too in that respect- happily.

Camarasa behind Reid may have pushed them over the line a bit.

The curious thing for me is that Warnock said Reid didn't get more games because they had Camarasa, so he presumably didn't see him as a striker. So why pay £10m for him?

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

The curious thing for me is that Warnock said Reid didn't get more games because they had Camarasa, so he presumably didn't see him as a striker. So why pay £10m for him?

It's rare for Warnock but think he missed a bit of a trick there- that combination would have offered more potency and Reid's workrate would have helped a bit defensively too.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, keflav said:

As you rightly point out the figures don't lie and we cant just get away from previous losses, but here's my question how come other teams seem to be able to do it and not get penalised on the FFP (this is a genuine question it just baffles me???)

At the end of it all its no good us risking it all just for a striker (like your points above) just disappointment its been going on for many season now 

But they have been penalised

off the top of my head

sheffield Wednesday transfer embargo

qpr transfer embargo

birmingham transfer embargo/points deduction 

hull transfer embargo 

Forest transfer embargo

[ScottishRed]

56 minutes ago, downendcity said:

What other championship clubs have signed this mythical 20 goal a season, proven at this level, championship striker?

If he exists, and is that bloody good at our level, why would his club want to sell him?

I think some fans think that you type in '20 goal a season championship strikers" into Amazon, choose one then click buy ( using Amazon Prime to avoid postage charges on top of the transfer fee)using SL's debit card  and the job is done.

 

You make a good point however, that is why clubs have recruitment teams who look away from the obvious to find players that potentially can deliver the 20 goals - the European Leagues being one obvious area worth scouting.

I think the concern is that all of us recognise that we need more firepower and expected the club to address that, so far this hasn't happened, there is still time, maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.

LJ's 'bold' comment has been interpreted in a certain way, maybe that is off the mark, we don't know, but the reality is that whilst Kalas and JDS are now our players and that is hugely positive we have not addressed clear weaknesses.

I think we probably expected to move a few on and as that so far has not happened it may have limited our options to bring more in. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, ScottishRed said:

You make a good point however, that is why clubs have recruitment teams who look away from the obvious to find players that potentially can deliver the 20 goals - the European Leagues being one obvious area worth scouting.

 I think the concern is that all of us recognise that we need more firepower and expected the club to address that, so far this hasn't happened, there is still time, maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.

LJ's 'bold' comment has been interpreted in a certain way, maybe that is off the mark, we don't know, but the reality is that whilst Kalas and JDS are now our players and that is hugely positive we have not addressed clear weaknesses.

 I think we probably expected to move a few on and as that so far has not happened it may have limited our options to bring more in. 

Agreed- sale of O'Dowda and loans/sales/mix of the 2 for Baker (I assume), Watkins and maybe one or two more would have formed part of this strategy.

A bit of a deflated market doesn't help- we'll have to be creative I think, not just with incomings but with how we shift players, deferred income that sort of thing.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

You make a good point however, that is why clubs have recruitment teams who look away from the obvious to find players that potentially can deliver the 20 goals - the European Leagues being one obvious area worth scouting.

I think the concern is that all of us recognise that we need more firepower and expected the club to address that, so far this hasn't happened, there is still time, maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.

LJ's 'bold' comment has been interpreted in a certain way, maybe that is off the mark, we don't know, but the reality is that whilst Kalas and JDS are now our players and that is hugely positive we have not addressed clear weaknesses.

I think we probably expected to move a few on and as that so far has not happened it may have limited our options to bring more in. 

There seems to be very little movement throughout the championship. Perhaps ffp is starting to bite - it was noticeable that Cocu's press conference at Derby the other day, was quite salutary ( if you are a Derby fan) giving the impression that financial constraints mean they will have t make do and mend, and Morris talking about sustainability, as though he has invented the idea!

Other clubs' financial issue might limit their activity in the market, which in turn means that sale we were expecting to make, and which would have funded our planned purchases, have not happened.

I agree about looking at European leagues as it seems their is better value for money there, although our success with Kodja and Famara means the French might now see us coming! Having said that, how "excited" would City fans have been had we announced Pukki as our striker purchase this time last year? Too many still seem to think that the proven, big name striker is what we need, whereas what we need is the right striker, able to fit our playing style ( whatever that might be) and  no matter that he might not cost £10m.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, downendcity said:

There seems to be very little movement throughout the championship. Perhaps ffp is starting to bite - it was noticeable that Cocu's press conference at Derby the other day, was quite salutary ( if you are a Derby fan) giving the impression that financial constraints mean they will have t make do and mend, and Morris talking about sustainability, as though he has invented the idea!

Other clubs' financial issue might limit their activity in the market, which in turn means that sale we were expecting to make, and which would have funded our planned purchases, have not happened.

I agree about looking at European leagues as it seems their is better value for money there, although our success with Kodja and Famara means the French might now see us coming! Having said that, how "excited" owl City fans have been had we announced Pukki as our striker purchase this time last year? Too many still seem to think that the proven, big name striker is what we need, whereas what we need is the right striker, able to fit our playing style ( whatever that might be) and  no matter that he might not cost £10m.

Lampard also said at the backend of last season that Derby would be quite heavily reliant on loans in 2019/20- absolutely think it's starting to have an effect.

Though Mel Morris has invested quite heavily in academy and infrastructure there- presumably he didn't do it for fun but was at some stage intending to utilise it as well- so it's a bit of both IMO.

Also agree completely- the right player is not necessarily the flashiest, the costliest, the one with the most hype..

Considering their financial constraints I think eg QPR and Sheffield Wednesday have both made rather good free signings- wouldn't have minded some. Powell to Stoke and Bidwell to Swansea on a free also stand out a bit, though don't know how their wages may look.