Is Johnson “too nice”

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Prinny said:

We coached them wrong, our recruitment was wrong, I was wrong.

I usually agree with his player assessments, but he also never takes personal responsibility.

He has done once or twice.

[cidered abroad]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He has done once or twice.

In the four years that we have suffered him at City?

He is the Head Coach and it is his responsibilty.

[Chappers]

38 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

In the four years that we have suffered him at City?

He is the Head Coach and it is his responsibilty.

We have gone from relegation candidates to promotion challengers, plus a LC semi final. Not too much suffering really.

[MarcusX]

6 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Bristol City boss Lee Johnson told BBC Radio Bristol:

"It's not a penalty, it's as simple as that, and that's disappointing because it's a third party if you like who's influenced the result.

"We weren't great in terms of our quality but we defended pretty resolutely and that's the frustrating thing.

"After two losses you come to Hillsborough, get a 0-0, a clean sheet, and really build off the positives of that.

"Now we go into the Charlton game and it's three losses on the spin but this one wasn't down to us."

 

 

All down to one man, apparently.

 

Disappointed with that, easy to blame the ref but that’s not the reason we didn’t win the game.

 

[Natchfever]

24 minutes ago, Chappers said:

We have gone from relegation candidates to promotion challengers, plus a LC semi final. Not too much suffering really.

When have we challenged for promotion? Took the piss out of Swindon when they celebrated in November. No risk of relegation currently nor should we with the money spent. We are a 7th to 16th club 

[Kibs]

Chris Wilder gets stuck right into his players and they seem to respond okay.

I don’t doubt LJ’s knowledge and understanding etc but he definitely does not inspire, motivate or even create a fear of failure - which is equally important, arguably more so, if you want to be a leader. I totally agree with the post by @JoeAman08 and this has always been my concern with LJ. 

The same has to be said for Jamie McAllister. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him say anything interesting or thought provoking. He just bores me. 

[eardun]

I keep reading on here about how talented the squad is and therefore it is LJ’s fault that we are not higher up the league. I’m not convinced by this. For example, how many of yesterday’s team are top end quality and consistent championship players? Not that many in my view. We have sold some quality, players and we have some quality players injured (eg Afobe, JD). We also do have some quality players who are v young or who are adapting to the championship (eg Massengo, Nagy). 

However, we need to stick with a formation and decide who are the players best suited to that. I would play 3 at the back and keep Moore in. We need his ability to bring the ball out from the back. We need to play Nagy (1) to get him back up to full fitness and (2) to get him used to the championship. Brownhill, Smith and Massengo for the other two midfield spots. COD shouldn’t get in the midfield ahead of any of those four. I keep hearing we can’t fit Eliasson into the team when we play 3 at the back. I would play him in the number 10 role and give him more licence to roam. That is where Palmer should play if and when he comes on; he needs to do more though. Famara and Weimann fighting it out for the number 9 role (until January window). 

[Highguy]

Maybe we Can ask the Blackburn physio if Johnson is to nice

I think he overthinks to much and tries to be to clever instead of just trying win the game

[soultrader]

19 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Another major fact with Liverpool is that they have a smaller squad than us.

Johnson has too many players, too many in some positions, too few in some positions like goal scoring strikers and a second left back given that Dasilva was injured so early on.

Liverpool stick to the same basic pattern whereas City change it to suit the opposition.

I know it's probably wrong to compare us with Liverpool but they have a manager who knows what he is doing at that level. City have a Head Coach who hasn't a clue what he is doing. He just uses his dad's tactics!

They also do not have Marley Watkins

[Superjack]

I think the problem might be that Johnson is only too nice to those that don't question him or dent his ego.

Just guessing...

[Major Isewater]

On 22/12/2019 at 17:05, Curr Avon said:

Lee needs to be more like Nigel Pearson. I'm not saying he's a hard man, but he did laugh when Bambi died.

That’s mean.

[Major Isewater]

23 hours ago, Kibs said:

Chris Wilder gets stuck right into his players and they seem to respond okay.

I don’t doubt LJ’s knowledge and understanding etc but he definitely does not inspire, motivate or even create a fear of failure - which is equally important, arguably more so, if you want to be a leader. I totally agree with the post by @JoeAman08 and this has always been my concern with LJ. 

The same has to be said for Jamie McAllister. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him say anything interesting or thought provoking. He just bores me. 

I think that Lee is capable of ‘ rocketing ‘ players and the more he comes under pressure the angrier he gets with the officials and the players who aren’t cutting the mustard.

 I believe his nature is to be kind but if he thinks that he’ll miss out on the top six or that his job is on the line I am sure that he will develop a more ruthless streak.

 The guy is highly motivated to succeed and will do all it takes.

My belief is that he got the job here too soon before he was / is fully rounded as a coach and if we fire him now he will bounce back and be a big success elsewhere. 

[glen humphries]

7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I think that Lee is capable of ‘ rocketing ‘ players and the more he comes under pressure the angrier he gets with the officials and the players who aren’t cutting the mustard.

 I believe his nature is to be kind but if he thinks that he’ll miss out on the top six or that his job is on the line I am sure that he will develop a more ruthless streak.

 The guy is highly motivated to succeed and will do all it takes.

My belief is that he got the job here too soon before he was / is fully rounded as a coach and if we fire him now he will bounce back and be a big success elsewhere. 

My belief is he’ll get the boot here and he’ll bounce around the lower leagues, there’s no evidence he can be a big success anywhere.

[RedorDead BCFC]

One if not the most successful managers of my time following football Alex Ferguson was not afraid to let his players know his feelings along with officials and media. 
I don’t buy this players need to be mollycoddled as it don’t get the best out of them. Ferguson had probably the youngest bunch of players win a title and they done it with him bollocking them throughout the season. 

But hey ho what do I know we are living in a time when they want to make being called Nerd or Geek hate crime. 

 

[glen humphries]

3 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Possibly Major but he has notable flaws in his approach that make him differ from successful coaches . He probably needs time out to reflect and review what he has been missing . 

For me one of lj flaws is he can’t stop talking in cliches and bullshit people can see through it, you won’t hear Chris wilder talking about measuring the grass and drones, he always over complicates every thing, you know what I mean.

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, glen humphries said:

For me one of lj flaws is he can’t stop talking in cliches and bullshit people can see through it, you won’t hear Chris wilder talking about measuring the grass and drones, he always over complicates every thing, you know what I mean.

Chris Wilder does use technology in particular to help the team work on shape. What you will not hear is the bullshit. 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Possibly Major but he has notable flaws in his approach that make him differ from successful coaches . He probably needs time out to reflect and review what he has been missing . 

Even Cotts went away an re-invented himself before he came here.  Went an studied lots of games, tournaments, re-read the books, and came back different.

[Curr Avon]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

That’s mean.

Harsh but fair, Major. Happy Christmas to you and the Isewater family.

[Clutton Caveman]

Substitute Weak for Nice and you are bang on

[bcfcredandwhite]

On 22/12/2019 at 19:33, glos old boy said:

not forgetting of course the man who selects "that man" you know... that man who selected that man who selected the players

You could also argue that football is the only industry where the ‘workers’ earn much more than the manager - and when they fail to do their jobs properly, the manager takes a hit and the players live to fight another day. 

Its a funny old game......

[City oz]

On 23/12/2019 at 00:47, JonDolman said:

No I think he's probably too harsh if anything. He makes tactical mistakes by picking the wrong team, and then often blames players in post match interviews.

Agree some what that he picks the team, but the question probably most of us have is does he have the squad good enough to pick 11 that can play together and 11 that can all perform for the same 90 minutes.

[LondonBristolian]

On 22/12/2019 at 17:20, cidered abroad said:

Another major fact with Liverpool is that they have a smaller squad than us.

Johnson has too many players, too many in some positions, too few in some positions like goal scoring strikers and a second left back given that Dasilva was injured so early on.

Liverpool stick to the same basic pattern whereas City change it to suit the opposition.

I know it's probably wrong to compare us with Liverpool but they have a manager who knows what he is doing at that level. City have a Head Coach who hasn't a clue what he is doing. He just uses his dad's tactics!

I agree with you up until your last paragraph, which just feels like an unnecessary dig about the fact LJ's Dad has managed the club too. 

Firstly, I'd argue LJ's tactics are very different to his Dad's. Regardless of whether you think he is a good manager or a bad manager, I don't believe any supporter would be comparing how we play tactically now to how we played under Gary Johnson if there wasn't a family relationship. For one, Gary Johnson - certainly until the last year or so - tended to focus on a small group of players, arguably at the expense of neglecting squad depth and youth development. I'd say the opposite is true of LJ in that, exactly as you say in your post, he focuses on squad depth and developing potential at the expense of having a clear, consistent first team or way of playing. Secondly, Gary Johnson played a direct 4-4-2 which relied on a target man and fast wingers whereas you could reasonably argue that a lack of wingers has been part of our problem at times this season. I honestly don't think you can back up the idea that he uses his Dad's tactics.

Nor do I agree that he hasn't a clue what he is dong. I absolutely agree with all you say about the fact that there are too many players and yet an unbalanced squad with a lack of depth in key areas and that we change things to focus on the opposition instead of playing our own game. They are all valid and accurate criticisms.

But ultimately, when you take them and the positives too - the League Cup run, the incredible run of form last season, our long unbeaten streak earlier in the season, how good we looked until Afobe got injured) -  they show LJ for what he currently is, which is a decent Championship level coach with a number of strengths but also some glaring weaknesses which are why he is not managing in the top flight. If we changed manager right now, then the likelihood is we would get a manager who has some strengths that LJ does not but also some weaknesses that LJ does not because that is what you tend to get with people who are good managers but not top level managers.

Ultimately the onus is on LJ to prove he can manage at the top level, as he clearly aspires to do, which means correcting all the areas you mention and ultimately probably would need to mean getting us promotion. There are times when he looks capable of that, and times when he does not, but certainly there are imbalances in the squad January cannot come quickly enough as far as I am concerned...

[LondonBristolian]

26 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Wilder is IMHO the case study SL and MA need to be looking at to understand the weaknesses in their current choice of football direction. On a budget inferior to ours , a clarity of vision and a determined non wavering approach to delivering it , matched with a lovely tactical twist has delivered exceptional results . It highlights the current ongoing deficiencies with the approach at AG that shown zero signs of improvement this season . The coach can make the difference and find small margins . Reading your posts you will be far more adapt at understand what Wilder has done , but from my readings and investigations , it is very interesting and worthy of the directors benchmarking . 

It is but it is worth considering that, had Wilder got the job here at the point he got the Sheffield United job, SL and the board would have been slated on here for a lack of ambition in appointing a manager with no Championship experience.

It is incredibly easy to say “such and such a Manager has been successful” after the fact. Far, far harder to predict it at the point of appointment. 

[cidered abroad]

4 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with you up until your last paragraph, which just feels like an unnecessary dig about the fact LJ's Dad has managed the club too. 

Firstly, I'd argue LJ's tactics are very different to his Dad's. Regardless of whether you think he is a good manager or a bad manager, I don't believe any supporter would be comparing how we play tactically now to how we played under Gary Johnson if there wasn't a family relationship. For one, Gary Johnson - certainly until the last year or so - tended to focus on a small group of players, arguably at the expense of neglecting squad depth and youth development. I'd say the opposite is true of LJ in that, exactly as you say in your post, he focuses on squad depth and developing potential at the expense of having a clear, consistent first team or way of playing. Secondly, Gary Johnson played a direct 4-4-2 which relied on a target man and fast wingers whereas you could reasonably argue that a lack of wingers has been part of our problem at times this season. I honestly don't think you can back up the idea that he uses his Dad's tactics.

Nor do I agree that he hasn't a clue what he is dong. I absolutely agree with all you say about the fact that there are too many players and yet an unbalanced squad with a lack of depth in key areas and that we change things to focus on the opposition instead of playing our own game. They are all valid and accurate criticisms.

But ultimately, when you take them and the positives too - the League Cup run, the incredible run of form last season, our long unbeaten streak earlier in the season, how good we looked until Afobe got injured) -  they show LJ for what he currently is, which is a decent Championship level coach with a number of strengths but also some glaring weaknesses which are why he is not managing in the top flight. If we changed manager right now, then the likelihood is we would get a manager who has some strengths that LJ does not but also some weaknesses that LJ does not because that is what you tend to get with people who are good managers but not top level managers.

Ultimately the onus is on LJ to prove he can manage at the top level, as he clearly aspires to do, which means correcting all the areas you mention and ultimately probably would need to mean getting us promotion. There are times when he looks capable of that, and times when he does not, but certainly there are imbalances in the squad January cannot come quickly enough as far as I am concerned...

I am somewhat limited in my view of Johnson senior because I lived in Portugal all the time he was here.

I saw a minimum of six home games every season of his tenure with twelve in  the season after the Play Off defeat.

All I ever saw in tactics is the negative, extremely careful first halves that we are now watching with his son. Followed by a second half loosening of the restraints and often the kitchen sink plan trying to get a draw or late win.

That is the major comparison I was making. I believe LJ is a more rounded coach than GJ but he falls down for me by not keeping a style of play, too much worrying about the opposition and his continual tinkering with tactics and team selection.

We could be a much better team with consistent management.

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Wilder is IMHO the case study SL and MA need to be looking at to understand the weaknesses in their current choice of football direction. On a budget inferior to ours , a clarity of vision and a determined non wavering approach to delivering it , matched with a lovely tactical twist has delivered exceptional results . It highlights the current ongoing deficiencies with the approach at AG that shown zero signs of improvement this season . The coach can make the difference and find small margins . Reading your posts you will be far more adapt at understand what Wilder has done , but from my readings and investigations , it is very interesting and worthy of the directors benchmarking . 

You are understanding what Chris Wilder has done.

The football has guiding principles. I as a fan of another club can see defining elements of their football. The tactical twists are present because Mr Wilder has his guiding principles e.g. His centre backs create overloads and overlaps in midfield because the key skills of the centre backs is they are very good on the ball. If these centre backs were not footballing CB's a important defining element (a principle) of the football is lost so they MUST be up to the task. 

Its the type of thing Mr Johnson appeared to be indicating would happen three years ago - There is a big plan guiding the football on and off the pitch. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with you up until your last paragraph, which just feels like an unnecessary dig about the fact LJ's Dad has managed the club too. 

Firstly, I'd argue LJ's tactics are very different to his Dad's. Regardless of whether you think he is a good manager or a bad manager, I don't believe any supporter would be comparing how we play tactically now to how we played under Gary Johnson if there wasn't a family relationship. For one, Gary Johnson - certainly until the last year or so - tended to focus on a small group of players, arguably at the expense of neglecting squad depth and youth development. I'd say the opposite is true of LJ in that, exactly as you say in your post, he focuses on squad depth and developing potential at the expense of having a clear, consistent first team or way of playing. Secondly, Gary Johnson played a direct 4-4-2 which relied on a target man and fast wingers whereas you could reasonably argue that a lack of wingers has been part of our problem at times this season. I honestly don't think you can back up the idea that he uses his Dad's tactics.

Nor do I agree that he hasn't a clue what he is dong. I absolutely agree with all you say about the fact that there are too many players and yet an unbalanced squad with a lack of depth in key areas and that we change things to focus on the opposition instead of playing our own game. They are all valid and accurate criticisms.

But ultimately, when you take them and the positives too - the League Cup run, the incredible run of form last season, our long unbeaten streak earlier in the season, how good we looked until Afobe got injured) -  they show LJ for what he currently is, which is a decent Championship level coach with a number of strengths but also some glaring weaknesses which are why he is not managing in the top flight. If we changed manager right now, then the likelihood is we would get a manager who has some strengths that LJ does not but also some weaknesses that LJ does not because that is what you tend to get with people who are good managers but not top level managers.

Ultimately the onus is on LJ to prove he can manage at the top level, as he clearly aspires to do, which means correcting all the areas you mention and ultimately probably would need to mean getting us promotion. There are times when he looks capable of that, and times when he does not, but certainly there are imbalances in the squad January cannot come quickly enough as far as I am concerned...

Yes and no.

He went through a number of tactical phases did GJ. For a time yes, but also for a time he played the lone striker with Noble behind- the excellent 4-4-1-1, for parts of 2006/07, definitely a lot of the first half of 2007/08 and it appeared periodically, but by no means consistently in the 2nd half of the season. Seem to recall we played some excellent football at home in that shape, but of course there were games in which we rode our luck too- Basso was fantastic at times.

Also went through a phase where it seemed to be 4-4-2 but McIndoe was tucked in narrow- good technically yet nominally a winger. The 4-4-1-1 definitely helped us top steal a March though...Sproule was more rapid than McIndoe too, whereas the latter had a bit more about him technically too.

Sort of agree with the last bit, but I'm unsure- think our squad has a good range now, just one more good striker- up to LJ to get a cohesive gameplan together now- he has some good ingredients, can he make an appetising cake?