We need to get rid of x, y, z

[Harry]

As a damp squib of a season draws near to a close, on a damp and dreary English summers day, many posters thoughts are turning to next season and the soon to be upon us transfer window. 
 

I’ve seen a lot of comments from posters saying “we need to move on (insert any name from Nagy, Massengo, Smith, Paterson, Williams, Maenpaa, Weimann, Eliasson, Diedhiou). 

I just thought I’d ponder on what we all think the upcoming transfer window will be like in the Covid-reality. 
Many clubs are currently without income. All clubs have no idea how much income they will bring in for 2020/21. 
Many players are out of contract across the country (nay, across the world). 
 

I just find myself thinking that this transfer window will be pretty much non-existent in terms of any significant outlay of cash, and will likely be dominated by free transfers, with many clubs tightening their purse strings on the fact they’ve currently no income, together with the potential (being discussed) implementation of a salary cap, those free agents may no longer be able to demand whatever salary they want. 
 

I believe we only have 3 players out of contract - Smith, Williams & Maenpaaa (I stand to be corrected on that). 

Given our proliferation of ‘youngsters’ I honestly don’t think we’ll offer any of these 3 an extension. We have players on the books already (O’Leary, Moore, Walsh) who can replace those 3 in the current squad (and not be any weaker). 
 

Those with 1 year left who, in any normal window, we might attempt to sell this summer to maximise value, now may not be party to significant offers. The likes of Diedhiou & Eliasson have certainly been rumoured to be potential outgoings, but I wonder if there are potential suitors now willing to offer significant cash for these 2? I’m not sure many teams will be desperate to spend £6m or so on these players, with unknown finances for the coming year, when perhaps they could pick them up for nothing in 10 months. 
 

So, whilst it’s all well and good to say x,y & z need to be moved on, perhaps this coming window will make this a very difficult task. 
 

What’s your thoughts folks? 

[And Its Smith]

My thoughts are a new Manager could make all of our players improve. Happens all the time in football. 

[glen humphries]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

My thoughts are a new Manager could make all of our players improve. Happens all the time in football. 

Brilliant will have enough to field 4 teams 

[Harry]

7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

My thoughts are a new Manager could make all of our players improve. Happens all the time in football. 

Of course he could. But what’s your thoughts on transfers.......

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Brilliant will have enough to field 4 teams 

Four games ago a lot of fans said this squad was top six material so we can’t need many change if that’s true 

[glen humphries]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Four games ago a lot of fans said this squad was top six material so we can’t need many change if that’s true 

I didn’t think it was true 

[WarksRobin]

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

As a damp squib of a season draws near to a close, on a damp and dreary English summers day, many posters thoughts are turning to next season and the soon to be upon us transfer window. 
 

I’ve seen a lot of comments from posters saying “we need to move on (insert any name from Nagy, Massengo, Smith, Paterson, Williams, Maenpaa, Weimann, Eliasson, Diedhiou). 

I just thought I’d ponder on what we all think the upcoming transfer window will be like in the Covid-reality. 
Many clubs are currently without income. All clubs have no idea how much income they will bring in for 2020/21. 
Many players are out of contract across the country (nay, across the world). 
 

I just find myself thinking that this transfer window will be pretty much non-existent in terms of any significant outlay of cash, and will likely be dominated by free transfers, with many clubs tightening their purse strings on the fact they’ve currently no income, together with the potential (being discussed) implementation of a salary cap, those free agents may no longer be able to demand whatever salary they want. 
 

I believe we only have 3 players out of contract - Smith, Williams & Maenpaaa (I stand to be corrected on that). 

Given our proliferation of ‘youngsters’ I honestly don’t think we’ll offer any of these 3 an extension. We have players on the books already (O’Leary, Moore, Walsh) who can replace those 3 in the current squad (and not be any weaker). 
 

Those with 1 year left who, in any normal window, we might attempt to sell this summer to maximise value, now may not be party to significant offers. The likes of Diedhiou & Eliasson have certainly been rumoured to be potential outgoings, but I wonder if there are potential suitors now willing to offer significant cash for these 2? I’m not sure many teams will be desperate to spend £6m or so on these players, with unknown finances for the coming year, when perhaps they could pick them up for nothing in 10 months. 
 

So, whilst it’s all well and good to say x,y & z need to be moved on, perhaps this coming window will make this a very difficult task. 
 

What’s your thoughts folks? 

Absolutely agree with this. It’s not a seller’s market and we probably won’t get full value if we try to sell players

[joe jordans teeth]

15 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

My thoughts are a new Manager could make all of our players improve. Happens all the time in football. 

Not as often as you think

[cityironman]

Didn't realise we had a chinese international on our books! Whats he done wrong anyway?

[Natchfever]

6 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

I didn’t think it was true 

Yep. Some quality some baffling. 

[Lrrr]

I think we could see a lot more actual trading between clubs/even 3 way trading etc

Club A wants Player 1 from Club B

Club B wants Player 2 from Club C

Club C wants Player 3 from Club A

All agree no fees to get the player they want

[GrahamC]

@Harry

My thoughts?

You are spot on, mate.

A lot of “football manager” on here, you know “I’d sell Adelakun, Baker, Watkins...”

Who do they seriously think is buying these players?

If the rumours are true Fam & Eliasson may have sorted themselves out moves away, but even if true, they will be the exceptions.

Apart from those whose loans expire or contracts end, our hands will be truly tied.

[David Brent]

30 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

My thoughts are a new Manager could make all of our players improve. Happens all the time in football. 

Or use them in the correct way at least 

[Red Exile]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

@Harry

My thoughts?

You are spot on, mate.

A lot of “football manager” on here, you know “I’d sell Adelakun, Baker, Watkins...”

Who do they seriously think is buying these players?

If the rumours are true Fam & Eliasson may have sorted themselves out moves away, but even if true, they will be the exceptions.

Apart from those whose loans expire or contracts end, our hands will be truly tied.

I agree Graham...with the observation that playing Football Manager had been a lot more entertaining this season! 

The one observation I'd have is that compared to previously disappointing seasons I believe we do have some decent players under contract, probably too many of them...but they've not performed. My opinion is that - at long last - the reason for that under-performance has left the club. 

My optimistic self believes that a new manager ought to be able to get a tune out of the current squad.

 

 

[Fordy62]

I think approaches for players will become a lot more cut throat. There’ll be clubs in desperate financial trouble (Wigan) and financially better off teams will look to pick off their assets cheaply. 

Hopefully we can be the latter!

[David Brent]

I’d get rid of A to W too

[Silvio Dante]

I think I posted (somewhere, might have been Hughton thread!) that moving players on this year will be a Herculean task.

We can all say we don’t need Watkins/Nagy/Whoever but the fact remains that in the current market, players next contract - whether transfer or renewal - will be lower due to COVID finances. So we’re left with maybe not getting fees of a level expected, and then coupling that with having to either pay a larger settlement on contract or subsidise a greater proportion of wages than expected previously.

We’re in no means alone in this. But I don’t expect us to move on player A and have to pay for the privilege unless replacement player B is markedly better and justifies the collective cost.

Unpopular, but I think we’ll see a pretty static squad with 1-2 additions and only retention of loanees if fee/wages markedly reassessed

[Davefevs]

Good post @Harry

If salary cap gets voted in, there are going to be players earning more than they are likely to get anywhere else, even relegated clubs with Parachute Payments.  Players will stick it out for a year in a lot of cases.

Eliasson and Diedhiou’s might suddenly think an extension is their best bet.

Its all a bit unknown, but player power is not gonna be what it was.

[BigAl&Toby]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

As a damp squib of a season draws near to a close, on a damp and dreary English summers day, many posters thoughts are turning to next season and the soon to be upon us transfer window. 
 

I’ve seen a lot of comments from posters saying “we need to move on (insert any name from Nagy, Massengo, Smith, Paterson, Williams, Maenpaa, Weimann, Eliasson, Diedhiou). 

I just thought I’d ponder on what we all think the upcoming transfer window will be like in the Covid-reality. 
Many clubs are currently without income. All clubs have no idea how much income they will bring in for 2020/21. 
Many players are out of contract across the country (nay, across the world). 
 

I just find myself thinking that this transfer window will be pretty much non-existent in terms of any significant outlay of cash, and will likely be dominated by free transfers, with many clubs tightening their purse strings on the fact they’ve currently no income, together with the potential (being discussed) implementation of a salary cap, those free agents may no longer be able to demand whatever salary they want. 
 

I believe we only have 3 players out of contract - Smith, Williams & Maenpaaa (I stand to be corrected on that). 

Given our proliferation of ‘youngsters’ I honestly don’t think we’ll offer any of these 3 an extension. We have players on the books already (O’Leary, Moore, Walsh) who can replace those 3 in the current squad (and not be any weaker). 
 

Those with 1 year left who, in any normal window, we might attempt to sell this summer to maximise value, now may not be party to significant offers. The likes of Diedhiou & Eliasson have certainly been rumoured to be potential outgoings, but I wonder if there are potential suitors now willing to offer significant cash for these 2? I’m not sure many teams will be desperate to spend £6m or so on these players, with unknown finances for the coming year, when perhaps they could pick them up for nothing in 10 months. 
 

So, whilst it’s all well and good to say x,y & z need to be moved on, perhaps this coming window will make this a very difficult task. 
 

What’s your thoughts folks? 

X, Y & Z?

My three words are “the ******* lot”. Especially from that list you’ve mentioned.

I’m afraid that they’ve all had their chance to prove their ability and have failed in my eyes.

Failed miserably. To perform. To be consistent. To be good enough. To take us to where we want to be.

Many will talk about having skill trained out of them and that too might be true. Fact remains though that the players we have simply and sadly aren’t bloody good enough.....

[Taylor10]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

As a damp squib of a season draws near to a close, on a damp and dreary English summers day, many posters thoughts are turning to next season and the soon to be upon us transfer window. 
 

I’ve seen a lot of comments from posters saying “we need to move on (insert any name from Nagy, Massengo, Smith, Paterson, Williams, Maenpaa, Weimann, Eliasson, Diedhiou). 

I just thought I’d ponder on what we all think the upcoming transfer window will be like in the Covid-reality. 
Many clubs are currently without income. All clubs have no idea how much income they will bring in for 2020/21. 
Many players are out of contract across the country (nay, across the world). 
 

I just find myself thinking that this transfer window will be pretty much non-existent in terms of any significant outlay of cash, and will likely be dominated by free transfers, with many clubs tightening their purse strings on the fact they’ve currently no income, together with the potential (being discussed) implementation of a salary cap, those free agents may no longer be able to demand whatever salary they want. 
 

I believe we only have 3 players out of contract - Smith, Williams & Maenpaaa (I stand to be corrected on that). 

Given our proliferation of ‘youngsters’ I honestly don’t think we’ll offer any of these 3 an extension. We have players on the books already (O’Leary, Moore, Walsh) who can replace those 3 in the current squad (and not be any weaker). 
 

Those with 1 year left who, in any normal window, we might attempt to sell this summer to maximise value, now may not be party to significant offers. The likes of Diedhiou & Eliasson have certainly been rumoured to be potential outgoings, but I wonder if there are potential suitors now willing to offer significant cash for these 2? I’m not sure many teams will be desperate to spend £6m or so on these players, with unknown finances for the coming year, when perhaps they could pick them up for nothing in 10 months. 
 

So, whilst it’s all well and good to say x,y & z need to be moved on, perhaps this coming window will make this a very difficult task. 
 

What’s your thoughts folks? 

@Harry personally I think even under ‘normal’ circumstances there are a lot of players we would ideally like to move on. Under ‘normal’ circumstances that would not be easy and we would probably have to move players on gradually. One in one out type scenario.

We have a top heavy squad, on good money. As you say with the out of contract players they almost certainly need to be let go. None of them will be a big loss and we could make a saving from within. I like Maenpaa but he can’t stay fit. We have players that can step in for sure. I think then it’s just a case of moving on any dead wood we can. The likes of Watkins, Adelukan, Weimann, Hunt etc will not be easy to shift and clubs just won’t be able to afford wholesale changes.

We have to be very shrewd in our business, if any. We could well see the likes of Szmodics given a chance. The Mark Ashton scattergun approach certainly won’t be prominent. 
 

I think it will be an interesting time. Whilst I don’t think we will be signing many, I do think we are in a more fortunate position than most clubs due to SL’s backing. Who knows, this Situation could benefit us?

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

I agree Graham...with the observation that playing Football Manager had been a lot more entertaining this season! 

The one observation I'd have is that compared to previously disappointing seasons I believe we do have some decent players under contract, probably too many of them...but they've not performed. My opinion is that - at long last - the reason for that under-performance has left the club. 

My optimistic self believes that a new manager ought to be able to get a tune out of the current squad.

 

 

So in my opinion that’s what the recruitment process should concentrate on.

An opening question along the lines of “as a result of coronavirus the only funds that will be available to you are those you generate, so can you tell us how you would transform the squad into a top six one” would be a good start.

[Harry]

37 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

X, Y & Z?

My three words are “the ******* lot”. Especially from that list you’ve mentioned.

I’m afraid that they’ve all had their chance to prove their ability and have failed in my eyes.

Failed miserably. To perform. To be consistent. To be good enough. To take us to where we want to be.

Many will talk about having skill trained out of them and that too might be true. Fact remains though that the players we have simply and sadly aren’t bloody good enough.....

I agree to an extent. 
But you are saying “get rid of the lot of ‘em” and I’m saying “how?”. 

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

@Harry

My thoughts?

You are spot on, mate.

A lot of “football manager” on here, you know “I’d sell Adelakun, Baker, Watkins...”

Who do they seriously think is buying these players?

If the rumours are true Fam & Eliasson may have sorted themselves out moves away, but even if true, they will be the exceptions.

Apart from those whose loans expire or contracts end, our hands will be truly tied.

What you've outlined there is a strong argument for the sort of manager who is good at improving what he already has as opposed to someone who likes to wheel and deal or who wants 'significant investment'.  

Getting the most out of his squad. Basically a Paul Cook or Mick McCarthy.  We have something like 15 players out of contract in June 2021 inluding loads of players aged 22/23.  Given all the insecurity around including about whether the season will actually be played as planned), the new manager needs to be able to work with what we have.  Use the season to work out who we let go, who we give new deals to and who we want to take from other sides.  

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, The Bard said:

What you've outlined there is a strong argument for the sort of manager who is good at improving what he already has as opposed to someone who likes to wheel and deal or who wants 'significant investment'.  

Getting the most out of his squad. Basically a Paul Cook or Mick McCarthy.  We have something like 15 players out of contract in June 2021 inluding loads of players aged 22/23.  Given all the insecurity around including about whether the season will actually be played as planned), the new manager needs to be able to work with what we have.  Use the season to work out who we let go, who we give new deals to and who we want to take from other sides.  

Pretty much it

[bengalcub]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

As a damp squib of a season draws near to a close, on a damp and dreary English summers day, many posters thoughts are turning to next season and the soon to be upon us transfer window. 
 

I’ve seen a lot of comments from posters saying “we need to move on (insert any name from Nagy, Massengo, Smith, Paterson, Williams, Maenpaa, Weimann, Eliasson, Diedhiou). 

I just thought I’d ponder on what we all think the upcoming transfer window will be like in the Covid-reality. 
Many clubs are currently without income. All clubs have no idea how much income they will bring in for 2020/21. 
Many players are out of contract across the country (nay, across the world). 
 

I just find myself thinking that this transfer window will be pretty much non-existent in terms of any significant outlay of cash, and will likely be dominated by free transfers, with many clubs tightening their purse strings on the fact they’ve currently no income, together with the potential (being discussed) implementation of a salary cap, those free agents may no longer be able to demand whatever salary they want. 
 

I believe we only have 3 players out of contract - Smith, Williams & Maenpaaa (I stand to be corrected on that). 

Given our proliferation of ‘youngsters’ I honestly don’t think we’ll offer any of these 3 an extension. We have players on the books already (O’Leary, Moore, Walsh) who can replace those 3 in the current squad (and not be any weaker). 
 

Those with 1 year left who, in any normal window, we might attempt to sell this summer to maximise value, now may not be party to significant offers. The likes of Diedhiou & Eliasson have certainly been rumoured to be potential outgoings, but I wonder if there are potential suitors now willing to offer significant cash for these 2? I’m not sure many teams will be desperate to spend £6m or so on these players, with unknown finances for the coming year, when perhaps they could pick them up for nothing in 10 months. 
 

So, whilst it’s all well and good to say x,y & z need to be moved on, perhaps this coming window will make this a very difficult task. 
 

What’s your thoughts folks? 

Walsh isnt a replacement for smith . 

Korey smith in my opinion should be offered a 1 year deal. 

[The Bard]

Basically, what I am saying is maybe pause recruitment to an extent.  As a club we are financially secure and it might be worth our while waiting even till the Winter transfer window to secure what we want.  The new manager will have the opportunity to try everyone out and then exploit the winter window which I suspect will be like a firesale.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, The Bard said:

What you've outlined there is a strong argument for the sort of manager who is good at improving what he already has as opposed to someone who likes to wheel and deal or who wants 'significant investment'.  

Getting the most out of his squad. Basically a Paul Cook or Mick McCarthy.  We have something like 15 players out of contract in June 2021 inluding loads of players aged 22/23.  Given all the insecurity around including about whether the season will actually be played as planned), the new manager needs to be able to work with what we have.  Use the season to work out who we let go, who we give new deals to and who we want to take from other sides.  

Run out of likes, but fine by me.

I am in the very small minority who would be more than happy if McCarthy took over, he has overachieved with squads for years.

[Rob k]

It’s going to be very very tough over the next few years and good recruitment and NOT selling our best players is going to be key to getting to the PL as there will be not as much to spend on wages and fees. 
Ideally I’d move Baker on for example as he’s on big wages but Is injured far too much - who on earth will buy take him off our hands though? So we’re stuck with him and hence why out recruitment in the next 2 seasons will be more important than ever 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Basically, what I am saying is maybe pause recruitment to an extent.  As a club we are financially secure and it might be worth our while waiting even till the Winter transfer window to secure what we want.  The new manager will have the opportunity to try everyone out and then exploit the winter window which I suspect will be like a firesale.

Too much common sense toNight Bill

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Run out of likes, but fine by me.

I am in the very small minority who would be more than happy if McCarthy took over, he has overachieved with squads for years.

With Terry Connor?  I think you’d be surprised at how many others think the same.

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Maenpaa, Williams and Korey possibly go for nothing.

Benkovic, Pereira, Afobe all leave.

Doesn't that free up wages to possibly bring in free transfers and loans?

And then there's the rumours of Diedhiou and Fenerbace. Eliasson interest too.

The players we really don't want we can try and sell for a cut price or loan out for the season freeing up wages.

I reckon we will be bringing in quite a few in the next window.

 

If we ignore covid, the club makes a £20m+ loss per season.  That’s the starting point.  Our wage bill will go down a bit assuming we don’t offer Williams, Smith and Maenpaa new deals, but that will be more than outweighed by lost income due to covid.

We are fortunate that we’ve built up some contingency in FFP terms, that if we wanted to really go for it, we might allow the new manager to spend most of what he generates.  But that is a budgetary decision....and could hamstring us the season after.

I honestly think the new man will only get a portion of what he generates, and be expected to have a more lean wage budget too.

That would suit a McCarthy type.

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Maenpaa, Williams and Korey possibly go for nothing. As well as Wright and Taylor left the club.

Benkovic, Pereira, Afobe all leave. 

Doesn't that free up wages to possibly bring in free transfers and loans?

And then there's the rumours of Diedhiou and Fenerbace. Eliasson interest too.

The players we really don't want we can try and sell for a cut price or loan out for the season freeing up wages.

I reckon we will be bringing in quite a few in the next window.

 

Not really.

We will still have 30+ players even after that, with 4 senior goalkeepers for a start.

The likes of Wollacott, Gilmartin (!), Rowe, Watkins, Adelakun, Baldwin, Cundy, Pring, Walsh, Morrell, Holden, Bakinson, J.Smith, Moore, Hinds, Nurse, Morton, Janneh, Semenyo and many, many others are all on the wage bill with most of them (not all) highly unlikely to get a game.

If we loan players out we still end up paying the vast majority of their wages, so take Adelakun on a rumoured £9k a week & that Rotherham paid a third of it, so if that happens again next season we still pay him £300k a year NOT to pay for us.

Completely unsustainable.