End of year meltdown underway?

[Aberdeen Pete's Dad]

First goal . It’s all about the first goal. If we score first, we win. Always . 100%. 

[swanker]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

If we win next game many will be thinking playoffs again. Amazing what one game can do!

Lose the next game and I can imagine what many will be saying! Let’s hope yesterday was a bad day at the office?

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

If we win next game many will be thinking playoffs again. Amazing what one game can do!

WLWL for the rest of the season gets us 72 points

[Mr Popodopolous]

I don't see the anticipated collapse happening- hope it's not famous last words but so far we have recovered from defeat quite well.

Let's hope this continues...and when we don't play so well, perhaps away from home especially, digging in for a draw is fine- just to keep it ticking along.

If we could get 4 points from the next 2 games that would be a useful starting point for another reasonable run.

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, Prinny said:

We really could get physically bullied the next 3-4 games in a row.

We're really going to have to fight back or teams are just going to keep doing it.

If a team puts out a blueprint of how to dominate you, you got to have a counter.

This is our big problem. 
 

Right no Mariappa is a nailed on starter with what we have left. It’s difficult to see how we are going to compete with bare bones against. Mill wall team that will be identical to rovrum. 

[2015]

2-0 flattered us yesterday. We got battered and the negative reaction was rightfully deserved from my point of view. 

We are more than capable of beating Millwall and Preston, after such a terrible display, because this is how this League works, anyone can beat anyone.

I was angry yesterday because our players were making stupid mistakes from minute 1 to minute 90, it was an awful watch and everything Rotherham were doing is what we should be doing. They were in our faces, getting players forward, they were energetic and pressing us as much as possible. EVERYTHING we should be doing, but we don't.

Defeats like that is why we won't make the top 6, we arent good enough , these games happen too often in a season for us to make it, whether we have a squad full of available players or not, these performances have happened too often over the last 3/4 years. 

I forgot we lost 5-0 to Preston under LJ which was his worst display, so i was wrong, its our worst performance since that game.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Agree, but supporters need to themselves conduct a realistic assessment of this squad 

If I was SL Id be asking myself , why after 4/5 years of stability , backing and growth off the pitch , and in the wage bill , why we Havn’t got a squad that’s a serious threat to promotion 

Personally, If I was him I’d be concentrating reform in our recruitment set up and ‘expertise’

The simple answer is : Recruitment 

For as long as a certain person is in charge of which players come and which players go, we will always be behind the 8-ball. 
 

LJ worked miracles to get this squad into the top 10 and almost in the playoffs, and sustain that for 3 seasons.  
Holden similarly has worked miracles so far this season to get us in the top 10, but I don’t think he’ll have the experience and wherewithal to keep us in the mix. 
 

Until a certain person is no longer in charge of recruitment, whoever is the manager will be up against the same challenges. The current CEO is incapable of scouting, recognising and recruiting top 6 players for this division. And that’s not about the money, fees, wages etc, it’s about recognising talent. The current structure doesn’t do that. 
 

Change the manager - nothing will change. The new manager is under the same restrictions. 
Change the CEO and recruitment philosophy, and you have a chance. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

This is our big problem. 
 

Right no Mariappa is a nailed on starter with what we have left. It’s difficult to see how we are going to compete with bare bones against. Mill wall team that will be identical to rovrum. 

Suspect they'll have less possession tbh, Millwall- Rotherham for all their one dimensional aspects had nearly as much as us!

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Suspect they'll have less possession tbh, Millwall- Rotherham for all their one dimensional aspects had nearly as much as us!

Yes they did as we barely won a 50/50 and kept turning over possession

[lenred]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

The simple answer is : Recruitment 

For as long as a certain person is in charge of which players come and which players go, we will always be behind the 8-ball. 
 

LJ worked miracles to get this squad into the top 10 and almost in the playoffs, and sustain that for 3 seasons.  
Holden similarly has worked miracles so far this season to get us in the top 10, but I don’t think he’ll have the experience and wherewithal to keep us in the mix. 
 

Until a certain person is no longer in charge of recruitment, whoever is the manager will be up against the same challenges. The current CEO is incapable of scouting, recognising and recruiting top 6 players for this division. And that’s not about the money, fees, wages etc, it’s about recognising talent. The current structure doesn’t do that. 
 

Change the manager - nothing will change. The new manager is under the same restrictions. 
Change the CEO and recruitment philosophy, and you have a chance. 

Not going to happen though is it?  

[Sheltons Army]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

The simple answer is : Recruitment 

For as long as a certain person is in charge of which players come and which players go, we will always be behind the 8-ball. 
 

LJ worked miracles to get this squad into the top 10 and almost in the playoffs, and sustain that for 3 seasons.  
Holden similarly has worked miracles so far this season to get us in the top 10, but I don’t think he’ll have the experience and wherewithal to keep us in the mix. 
 

Until a certain person is no longer in charge of recruitment, whoever is the manager will be up against the same challenges. The current CEO is incapable of scouting, recognising and recruiting top 6 players for this division. And that’s not about the money, fees, wages etc, it’s about recognising talent. The current structure doesn’t do that. 
 

Change the manager - nothing will change. The new manager is under the same restrictions. 
Change the CEO and recruitment philosophy, and you have a chance. 

Far too simplistic to blame Ashton alone Harry , 

He didn’t assemble an large but unbalanced samey samey squad all on his own 

[SouthS22]

That was the worst we’ve played this season by some distance. We knew how they were going to play, but we still seemed surprised by it, and it was pretty unforgivable to go down to yet another set piece goal after just 3 minutes.  After that we just couldn’t respond - no fight, didn’t win any 50-50s and we couldn’t string more than a few passes together.  The players looked knackered and clueless and were being overrun in every area of the pitch.  While they didn’t play well,  mostly that had to be about how the team was prepared and set up.  Hopefully Deano and the coaching staff will learn the lessons from that and have them better prepared for Tuesday - solid 3 at the back and 5 flooding the midfield prepared to scrap for everything.  It will be a difficult match but current set up is tougher and more no nonsense than the last and I reckon we can fight it out

[chinapig]

26 minutes ago, Harry said:

The simple answer is : Recruitment 

For as long as a certain person is in charge of which players come and which players go, we will always be behind the 8-ball. 
 

LJ worked miracles to get this squad into the top 10 and almost in the playoffs, and sustain that for 3 seasons.  
Holden similarly has worked miracles so far this season to get us in the top 10, but I don’t think he’ll have the experience and wherewithal to keep us in the mix. 
 

Until a certain person is no longer in charge of recruitment, whoever is the manager will be up against the same challenges. The current CEO is incapable of scouting, recognising and recruiting top 6 players for this division. And that’s not about the money, fees, wages etc, it’s about recognising talent. The current structure doesn’t do that. 
 

Change the manager - nothing will change. The new manager is under the same restrictions. 
Change the CEO and recruitment philosophy, and you have a chance. 

There seems to be an increasing tendency in the game for clubs to move away from scouting in favour of cultivating relationships with particular agents. This a quid pro quo, a case of " You give a contract to this client of mine you don't really want and I'll push another client you actually need in your direction when the time comes".

Arsenal have been suggested as an example. They deny it but you have to ask yourself, why would they sign Cedric Soares on, I think, a 4 year deal?

Not that I would suggest such things could happen at City of course.

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's a playoff challenging squad, or has been up and around there- the number of injuries has eaten into it for what is now the 4th season on the bounce.

Off the top of my head.

• Bentley- Very good GK at this level.
• Kalas- Two promotions and two playoffs in 4 seasons at prior clubs shows a pedigree. International regular in a reasonable Czech side.
• Baker- Played PL with Aston Villa.
• Weimann- See above, also higher end of Championship with Derby for 2 of 3 years?

That's a starting point. Moore, think he has not had a great crack of the whip, Morrell- doubt I'd have sold him, Massengo has clearly regressed or at least stalled since his first few months here? O'Dowda has his attributes but the end product? The versatility and running at opposition defences is good. Vyner, Bakinson and Semenyo are rising.

Nagy I think has certainly improved this season, but seems best in a 3- Weimann and Paterson, they have been missed- DaSilva I'd like to see more from, first goal and assist at Huddersfield hopefully a sign of things to come.

Wells has scored goals at QPR, though of him and Vydra I'd have preferred the latter not least as the latter is more versatile. Martin has been a strong pivot.

Hunt is serviceable at RB and RWB, albeit not spectacular.

Then we have Sessegnon, Mawson, Williams and Walsh. All but the latter new signings, all injured! Was looking forward in particular as am sure we all were, to seeing what the last two could do! All players with talent though.

Rowe is a great professional, versatile and has popped up every now and then with goals and assists- though I think respective age and ceiling, DaSilva should have outstripped him in terms of end product from that position.

While the squad absolutely isn't that of top 2 contenders, I don't see why it's such a terrible squad. If we have a fair run with injuries, we can see better I'm sure.

[Harry]

19 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Far too simplistic to blame Ashton alone Harry , 

He didn’t assemble an large but unbalanced samey samey squad all on his own 

Nope. Certainly didn’t do it on his own. He has his crack team of analysts and his world class database to help him. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Edit.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, SouthS22 said:

That was the worst we’ve played this season by some distance. We knew how they were going to play, but we still seemed surprised by it, and it was pretty unforgivable to go down to yet another set piece goal after just 3 minutes.  After that we just couldn’t respond - no fight, didn’t win any 50-50s and we couldn’t string more than a few passes together.  The players looked knackered and clueless and were being overrun in every area of the pitch.  While they didn’t play well,  mostly that had to be about how the team was prepared and set up.  Hopefully Deano and the coaching staff will learn the lessons from that and have them better prepared for Tuesday - solid 3 at the back and 5 flooding the midfield prepared to scrap for everything.  It will be a difficult match but current set up is tougher and more no nonsense than the last and I reckon we can fight it out

Do you know what....I don’t think the players looked knackered....a few of them didn’t fancy putting the hard yards in....and it dragged everyone else down.

We ain’t good enough to carry a couple of players or more.

In my preview I put up a pic of Michael Smith winning 10/40 duels.

Here’s yesterday’s.

 

For comparison, Chris Martin who I didn’t think had a particularly great game did try to complete.

But I bet most of Martin’s balls were straight balls and Smith’s were diags.

I can only hope we don’t repeat on Tuesday.

 

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Nope. Certainly didn’t do it on his own. He has his crack team of analysts and his world class database to help him. 

The analysts and database he describes as being his you mean? Are you suggesting this is not normal best practice? I'm shocked.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Nope. Certainly didn’t do it on his own. He has his crack team of analysts and his world class database to help him. 

If so, he also had a head-coach who was happy to take these players.  Why didn’t LJ just do a Grange Hill and “just say no”, why not tell SL “it’s me or him” if that’s the case.

Thats the big question for me that won’t let me accept it’s all MA’s fault.

To my mind it’s too convenient an argument.

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Do you know what....I don’t think the players looked knackered....a few of them didn’t fancy putting the hard yards in....and it dragged everyone else down.

We ain’t good enough to carry a couple of players or more.

In my preview I put up a pic of Michael Smith winning 10/40 duels.

Here’s yesterday’s.

 

For comparison, Chris Martin who I didn’t think had a particularly great game did try to complete.

But I bet most of Martin’s balls were straight balls and Smith’s were diags.

I can only hope we don’t repeat on Tuesday.

 

And perhaps if DH had read your analysis we would have set up to counter their way of playing?

To me it proved how simplistic it is to say don't bother about the opposition just focus on your own game. We looked like a team totally unprepared for what would happen.

[SouthS22]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Do you know what....I don’t think the players looked knackered....a few of them didn’t fancy putting the hard yards in....and it dragged everyone else down.

We ain’t good enough to carry a couple of players or more.

In my preview I put up a pic of Michael Smith winning 10/40 duels.

Here’s yesterday’s.

 

For comparison, Chris Martin who I didn’t think had a particularly great game did try to complete.

But I bet most of Martin’s balls were straight balls and Smith’s were diags.

I can only hope we don’t repeat on Tuesday.

 

Okay, so all looking knackered is a bit too simple, but some of them did like COD and Hunt, and Nagy didn’t have his usual energy though he put up more fight than some others.  Others just had a bad game like Vyner, Bakinson and Semenyo. What they all had in common though was that they didn’t look like they knew what to do and as a result they didn’t with what Rotherham predictably chucked at us

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If so, he also had a head-coach who was happy to take these players.  Why didn’t LJ just do a Grange Hill and “just say no”, why not tell SL “it’s me or him” if that’s the case.

Thats the big question for me that won’t let me accept it’s all MA’s fault.

To my mind it’s too convenient an argument.

We have a Head Coach not a Manager. That tells it's own story about where the authority lies. It's common enough in Europe, where coaches are often given players and told to get on with it.

LJ was prepared to toe the line and take the flak so survived a long stint. At times he grumbled about player turnover but he wasn't prepared to rock the boat enough. Cotts on the other hand is old school, wanted control, , wouldn't compromise, so wasn't going to get the slack LJ had.

We'll see how DH responds in time I suppose.

Of course if you think the CEO should be in charge of identifying players, should be in control of the database and that the analysts should work to him not the Head Coach (or a suitably qualified Director of Football) then there is nothing to be concerned about.

[Redrascal2]

7 hours ago, BOSRed said:

It’s well documented over recent years that we have an okay start to a season giving us false confidence only to see it all flushed away around Christmas and beyond.

Are we seeing this slide already? It’s fair to say, despite what many might say, performances haven’t been good at all. Stats would back me up regarding the lack of possession, lack of goals, attempts on goal etc etc yet we have somehow claimed points despite that. To me, those points have papered over the cracks and that game against Rotherham brought everything to the surface.

i honestly barring maybe the Preston game, have never witnessed a worse performance all round. I don’t care if people say Rotherham are hard to play against. Majority of other teams have done the job and so should we if we have promotion ambitions.

it was an absolute embarrassment. No fight, no quality, no intelligence just nothing. How was it so bad coming off in my opinion a fortunate win vs blackburn? I don’t accept the knackered scenario in the main and if that was an issue, we could have freshened it up with some that were in the bench from the start. Fam, mariappa, moore, massengo. Not only are the players to blame but the management did themselves no favours.

i just can’t understand how and why it was so bad.. my ramblings aside and going back to main point, are we already on our Christmas/New Year slide to obscurity?

personally I think yes and Millwall on Tuesday will further confirm it.

It is just a continuation of the end of the Johnson era. Holden brings  nothing new and  seems like Johnson to have no idea of how to sort out recurring problems. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, SouthS22 said:

Okay, so all looking knackered is a bit too simple, but some of them did like COD and Hunt, and Nagy didn’t have his usual energy though he put up more fight than some others.  Others just had a bad game like Vyner, Bakinson and Semenyo. What they all had in common though was that they didn’t look like they knew what to do and as a result they didn’t with what Rotherham predictably chucked at us

I wasn’t being critical of you post by the way.  I think attitude was a lot to do with it yesterday and poor attitude at that.

Holden got minus marks from me yesterday.  The half-time changes seemed to be about changing the way we played, but I think the first thing was to stop Rotherham having it all their own way.

[chinapig]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If so, he also had a head-coach who was happy to take these players.  Why didn’t LJ just do a Grange Hill and “just say no”, why not tell SL “it’s me or him” if that’s the case.

Thats the big question for me that won’t let me accept it’s all MA’s fault.

To my mind it’s too convenient an argument.

He was prepared rather than happy perhaps as he didn't have ultimate authority. But you can see those who were imposed for speculative reasons because he didn't play them - think Engval, Eisa, Adelakun, Szmodics for example.

Responsibility must be shared but attempts to exonerate the CEO because you don't like the Head Coach are another matter.

[steveybadger]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If so, he also had a head-coach who was happy to take these players.  Why didn’t LJ just do a Grange Hill and “just say no”, why not tell SL “it’s me or him” if that’s the case.

Thats the big question for me that won’t let me accept it’s all MA’s fault.

To my mind it’s too convenient an argument.

I’d also add that MA and whoever was / is coach are aware that we have a budget, and recruitment has to fit into that as well. SL has constantly stated the need / desire to fit into FFP, and that clearly limits the quality of player we recruit. So you could argue our success is based on what we paid and what we made, and to that end we’re doing ok. Yes there are teams with less cash who do better than us but the reverse is also true. We are about where we should be at the mo.

[slartibartfast]

5 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

It is embarrassing especially when you can identify “supporters” who ONLY comment on here when we are losing a game and that “comment@ is generally to spout bile at individuals. What kind of mentality makes you do that if the team is meant to be something you want to do well?

 

Yes,26 pages in two days for a loss v 24 in four days for the Blackburn match !

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He was prepared rather than happy perhaps as he didn't have ultimate authority. But you can see those who were imposed for speculative reasons because he didn't play them - think Engval, Eisa, Adelakun, Szmodics for example.

Responsibility must be shared but attempts to exonerate the CEO because you don't like the Head Coach are another matter.

I’m pretty much in the middle on LJ as a head-coach, good and bad, but have openly admitted that his Brent-isms push me on the negative side.

If LJ really thought he was being sold down the river by Ashton, then he should’ve had the balls to confront that issue.  He has enough confidence in his own ability, and therefore why wouldn’t you back yourself either in a showdown with SL about MA, or to go and get a job somewhere else if it goes the wrong way.

I’m not exonerating MA, and think they fed each each other’s egos....and are both to blame for some very poor recruitment (some good too).

[AshtonGreat]

6 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

I'm coming round a bit from yesterday now. That was a horrid performance, and understandably we were all thoroughly p***ed off (rightly so).

BUT in the grand scheme of things, this is an injury crisis that makes our other recent injury crises look like a picnic. The fact we are scraping scrappy wins and still 7th in the table is a positive. Overall, Holden is doing a good job (though he'll know performances need to improve, to match our position in the table). We are still well in with a play-off shout this season. Maybe I'm wrong and in the next few weeks and months we'll plummet, and we'll review things then. But for now, despite yesterday's shambles, we can be positive about the season thus far. Sadly, two big tests in the next 6 days. Let's see what we can do.

It's not that bad

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

I’d also add that MA and whoever was / is coach are aware that we have a budget, and recruitment has to fit into that as well. SL has constantly stated the need / desire to fit into FFP, and that clearly limits the quality of player we recruit. So you could argue our success is based on what we paid and what we made, and to that end we’re doing ok. Yes there are teams with less cash who do better than us but the reverse is also true. We are about where we should be at the mo.

Quite so, the strategy is a financial one not a footballing one. SL's stated aim is to become self sustaining, though I doubt that is possible for a Championship club of our size.

That's a fair enough strategy, though it needs a Head Coach who is prepared to live with it. Just don't pretend the aim is something else.