The root cause of our problem

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

He is the core of much of the ills. I do not want to list the players, but he is an admin officer not a director of football. 

Don't think recruitment has been that disastrous- mixed yeah, hit and miss certainly- but disastrous recruitment and remember need to balance budget etc...?

We are what we are- a team in the playoff race often but not quite good enough to get over the line- and a team who year in, year out suffer recurring injuries to first team and first reserve players.

Let's not forget, injury has even played a reasonable role with those we have signed in the last 3-4 years- if players have regular injuries, to write them off as a failure- dunno, jury out.

[Bassomylord]

27 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, it was very close to being done. I notice you haven't included all the other things I got right from Kodjia to Diedhiou to Pisano to Nketiah.

Well, my evidence is first-hand. What do you want,  pics? 

If anyone seriously thinks Jon or Mark Ashton pulls rank over the guy that owns the club then they are completely and utterly deluded. 

If you think interference in first team affairs by the Lansdown family is bad, then I've got even worse news for you. 

Pluck 4 players out of thin air. 

Going on twitter and finding posts from a journo doesn't count as having insider knowledge. You should get out more.

[Kid in the Riot]

4 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

Pluck 4 players out of thin air. 

Going on twitter and finding posts from a journo doesn't count as having insider knowledge. You should get out more.

You are a silly little *****. Feel free to search this forum and the transfer forum for evidence. 

[Northern Red]

9 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

Pluck 4 players out of thin air. 

Going on twitter and finding posts from a journo doesn't count as having insider knowledge. You should get out more.

Stop embarrassing yourself Lez, there's a good lad.

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Stop embarrassing yourself Lez, there's a good lad.

Our friend Simon Parker again?! Haha 

[Mendip City]

1 hour ago, BigTone said:

Who do you think picks the team ?

But who picks the man who picks the team? 
who picked Lee, SOD, McInnes, Tinnion, Millen, Coppell? 
who didn’t want or pick Cotts? 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Mendip City said:

But who picks the man who picks the team? 
who picked Lee, SOD, McInnes, Tinnion, Millen, Coppell? 
who didn’t want or pick Cotts? 

Not wrong, though in the interests of balance SL had a good feeling about GJ. 

[Mendip City]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Not wrong, though in the interests of balance SL had a good feeling about GJ. 

I wanted to add him... but even that judgement went wrong, kept him too long and made a strange sentimental decision to appoint GJ’s son - despite not enough experience.  
I choose to leave GJ in sone sort of neutral wilderness! 
 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

Ironically, the few years after 82 were some of my favourite times following City. The fan base was as one, and the players ran through brick walls for the club. We were as one back then, nowadays I feel zero affinity towards any of the players. 

Monty Python springs to mind and 'When I were a lad...'

I suspect there are people who have different recollections to 82 and they wouldn't be paintng rosy pictures or have strings in their pants like some do.

My view, our biggest problem at the moment is the injury list. This isn't anyones fault.
As a consequence, the football is dire at the moment and that is patently obvious.

Now on to some of the plain old BS I'm seeing on this post.

I suspect DH got the job because he is a 'known', he must have had an interview and a half (I'd like some pointers DH as I've just been made redundant due to covid) and he was prepared to work under some strict conditions that have come about as a result of CV19.

Considering the build up to appointment of the manager after LJ, I wasn't impressed when DH was given the job because it just didn't make sense. He's here and I have to accept that. I suspect that he's doing the best he can with what he has got. Anyone who believes SL and Co. are involved with team selection, carry on jumping up and down like a chimp. DH has to be given more time but this has to be based on a clear target of what is expected at the end of the season AND a clear consequence (the sack) of falling below a certain point in the table during the season.

A look at City's history shows a long history of underachievement (this appears to be a Bristol disease), and it's not limited to the past 19 years.

I suspect SL came to City with no clear plan and pumped in money thinking it would buy success (this approach sometimes works).
I'd say that the thinking has now changed and he bringing in his business acumen.
He's building some solid foundations (stadium, training grounds, bringing together other sports etc.) and putting in financial support 'modern' football teams need to survive.

What he's doing poorly at the moment is the creation of a successful football team and this starts with a good manager.
I like it that he's not a hire and fire owner and does give managers the opportunity to prove themselves.
His weakness however seems to be, the inability to recognise when a manager's time has run its course.
I think this is where MA comes in i.e. if it wasn't for MA, I suspect that LJ would still be here.

To counter this flaw, here is a man who has tremendous amounts of money which he could safely invest elsewhere, however, he has chosen instead to use his money to try and develop a team that was struggling AND develop Bristol sport in general. Let us think about this for a moment: He doesn't have to do this.

Who could step in and replace him?
Some Jordanian 'gazillionaire' (if I was a rovers fan, I'd be feeling a bit twitchy about my owner i.e. is he going to pull the plug and sink them at some point?)?
What history does City have to attract the requisite billionaire that football teams seem to need nowadays?
And then, once we've got that billionaire, does this then mean instant success (I was looking at how many ex-prem clubs there are are in L1 the other day and I was quite astonished), would they get bored of their new play thing (considering that the amount of time SL has now been with us, it appears he's with City for the longhaul) and dump us, do we want owners of dubious wealth etc.

The OP is entitled to his point of view but has to accept that people won't share it, are not prone to creating narratives that are based on fickleness, and just generally accept that things are not as simple as people would like things to be.

[The Constant Rabbit]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, it was very close to being done. I notice you haven't included all the other things I got right from Kodjia to Diedhiou to Pisano to Nketiah.

Well, my evidence is first-hand. What do you want,  pics? 

If anyone seriously thinks Jon or Mark Ashton pulls rank over the guy that owns the club then they are completely and utterly deluded. 

If you think interference in first team affairs by the Lansdown family is bad, then I've got even worse news for you. 

KITR is 100% correct

 

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

In all honesty, and with substantial inside information? 

The manager, with significant input from the Lansdown family. 

When's Hughton signing?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mark Ashton is merely a sympton of the problem, which is Steve Lansdown.

Aint this the truth

[Guest]

5 hours ago, BigTone said:

Who do you think picks the team ?

who picks the person who picks the team.......after 6weeks of carefull selection and thought......who happens to be the cheapest, most in-exp person but is apparrently the one to take us forward.... (will do as hes told)

[BCFC Grim]

8 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mark Ashton is merely a sympton of the problem, which is Steve Lansdown.

Couldn't agree anymore. 

How such a successful business man can be so inept at running a football club is astounding.

[the1stknowle]

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't want to defend the bloke but Ashton has hardly been a disaster in terms of the net profit he's brought into the club. And I suppose that's all that bean-counter Lansdown sees. 

Either way, Lansdown is the common-denominator of 19 years, and counting, of underachievement.

Bean counting the enormous amount of money he has evaporated supporting Bristol City? 
 

the idea we haven’t made progress As a football club in 19 years is madness. 
 

[MATT BCFC]

To be fair it almost feels like deja vu to when we were last in this division and Mark Ashton wasn't here then. 

[Harry]

39 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

To be fair it almost feels like deja vu to when we were last in this division and Mark Ashton wasn't here then. 

Incorrect. 
Ashton had a hand in the recruitment under McInnes. 

[tin]

The problem is, and will continue to be, SL. He’s the one who signs everything off from his ivory tower in Guernsey. For someone so astute in finance, he’s a proven sucker for bullshitters in football. Putting his trust in Ashton to run the football side is great when we’ve got valuable assets to sell, but hopeless in all other aspects of his job description. 

[Sheltons Army]

7 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Pluck 4 players out of thin air. 

Going on twitter and finding posts from a journo doesn't count as having insider knowledge. You should get out more.

You can’t have many toys left to throw , your tantrum so elongated

You've thrown them at everyone connected to BCFC so starting on other posters now.......

laughable

[BigTone]

19 minutes ago, Harry said:

Incorrect. 
Ashton had a hand in the recruitment under McInnes. 

You sure about that ?  According to Ashtons linkedin profile he joined City in 2016. According to Wikipedia McInnes was manager for City from 2011-2013. 

[AppyDAZE]

How sure can any of us be that SL wouldn't have gone for Hughton, Cook or a more ambitious appointment had Covid 19 not been such a big ussue?
Something in my mind still thinks this had a hell of a lot to do with the decision made.

[havanatopia]

9 hours ago, City_USA said:

Agreed. My thoughts of MA is best described with one of my favorite British words that the Americans over here don't comprehend......Smarmy

 

9 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I' m interested in people's views - I've stated mine. If you don't have a view or don't wish to comment . Don't.

I don't think Holden is the problem.

 

9 hours ago, marcofisher said:

The sad thing is, I honestly think if we had a coach like Howe under MA, it would actually work.

During the interview process it was made clear to each interviewee that Mark Ashton would be in control of player signings. In other words he had the right of veto. This did not sit comfortably with at least three known candidates who were each offered the job. Two successful Englishmen and one Foreign chap. I think we would all have been delighted with any of them. By the time we reached, what was it, about 6 weeks Ashton was out of options. It was then that Holden came into focus. While I think Holden is a decent man and has actually been doing a decent job his novelty, that of being 'anybody but Lee' is wearing off with the players. As clear as night follows day this could have been predicted by most of us. 

The thought Ashton picked the best candidate is so disingenuous that it has completely broken the trust with the average supporter. Think of the Geoff T interview; the anger that arose inside Ashton that evening was clear; he had been outed.

Cheap option? Without a doubt but it was not by intent it was because Holden would not have the final say on player signings. 

The idea that Steve L has poured hundreds of millions into the club and refuses to amend the failed plan of a CEO choosing and/or having final say on player signings is more than baffling given the abject failure each season that passes.

 

[M.D]

The main problem is SL, he puts his trust in Ashton to run the club and gives him total control over footballing matters which in turn stops us having a good manager as they won't work under the constraints Ashton dictates.

[CodeRed]

29 minutes ago, BigTone said:

You sure about that ?  According to Ashtons linkedin profile he joined City in 2016. According to Wikipedia McInnes was manager for City from 2011-2013. 

Ashton was a consultant - brought in to set up the recruitment database,  he was therefore known to the club and SL, not sure of the timescale but it was certainly before Steve Cotterill was appointed 

[bristolcitysweden]

The main problem is that we haven't got a squad good enough för a serious promotion push and that is due to Ashton and his shortcomings

[Sheltons Army]

32 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

 

 

During the interview process it was made clear to each interviewee that Mark Ashton would be in control of player signings. In other words he had the right of veto. This did not sit comfortably with at least three known candidates who were each offered the job. Two successful Englishmen and one Foreign chap. I think we would all have been delighted with any of them. By the time we reached, what was it, about 6 weeks Ashton was out of options. It was then that Holden came into focus. While I think Holden is a decent man and has actually been doing a decent job his novelty, that of being 'anybody but Lee' is wearing off with the players. As clear as night follows day this could have been predicted by most of us. 

The thought Ashton picked the best candidate is so disingenuous that it has completely broken the trust with the average supporter. Think of the Geoff T interview; the anger that arose inside Ashton that evening was clear; he had been outed.

Cheap option? Without a doubt but it was not by intent it was because Holden would not have the final say on player signings. 

The idea that Steve L has poured hundreds of millions into the club and refuses to amend the failed plan of a CEO choosing and/or having final say on player signings is more than baffling given the abject failure each season that passes.

 

And you are getting this from where exactly.......

Present at the interviews ?

 

"................Or did you just make it up 

[steveybadger]

10 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

And you are getting this from where exactly.......

Present at the interviews ?

 

"................Or did you just make it up 

Ashton has consistently said he puts the list together but ultimately the manager says yes or no. 

[City oz]

12 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

And you are getting this from where exactly.......

Present at the interviews ?

 

"................Or did you just make it up 

Sounds like this is how it played out to me. Any one that thinks otherwise corona virus will be gone by Feb 

[1960maaan]

43 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

 

 

During the interview process it was made clear to each interviewee that Mark Ashton would be in control of player signings. In other words he had the right of veto. This did not sit comfortably with at least three known candidates who were each offered the job. Two successful Englishmen and one Foreign chap. I think we would all have been delighted with any of them. By the time we reached, what was it, about 6 weeks Ashton was out of options. It was then that Holden came into focus. While I think Holden is a decent man and has actually been doing a decent job his novelty, that of being 'anybody but Lee' is wearing off with the players. As clear as night follows day this could have been predicted by most of us. 

The thought Ashton picked the best candidate is so disingenuous that it has completely broken the trust with the average supporter. Think of the Geoff T interview; the anger that arose inside Ashton that evening was clear; he had been outed.

Cheap option? Without a doubt but it was not by intent it was because Holden would not have the final say on player signings. 

The idea that Steve L has poured hundreds of millions into the club and refuses to amend the failed plan of a CEO choosing and/or having final say on player signings is more than baffling given the abject failure each season that passes.

 

Not saying this ins't true. Just as I don't know if Houghton turned up having done no research and just said the entire team needs rebuilding. I would love to know where this comes from though.

[steveybadger]

7 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

Monty Python springs to mind and 'When I were a lad...'

I suspect there are people who have different recollections to 82 and they wouldn't be paintng rosy pictures or have strings in their pants like some do.

My view, our biggest problem at the moment is the injury list. This isn't anyones fault.
As a consequence, the football is dire at the moment and that is patently obvious.

Now on to some of the plain old BS I'm seeing on this post.

I suspect DH got the job because he is a 'known', he must have had an interview and a half (I'd like some pointers DH as I've just been made redundant due to covid) and he was prepared to work under some strict conditions that have come about as a result of CV19.

Considering the build up to appointment of the manager after LJ, I wasn't impressed when DH was given the job because it just didn't make sense. He's here and I have to accept that. I suspect that he's doing the best he can with what he has got. Anyone who believes SL and Co. are involved with team selection, carry on jumping up and down like a chimp. DH has to be given more time but this has to be based on a clear target of what is expected at the end of the season AND a clear consequence (the sack) of falling below a certain point in the table during the season.

A look at City's history shows a long history of underachievement (this appears to be a Bristol disease), and it's not limited to the past 19 years.

I suspect SL came to City with no clear plan and pumped in money thinking it would buy success (this approach sometimes works).
I'd say that the thinking has now changed and he bringing in his business acumen.
He's building some solid foundations (stadium, training grounds, bringing together other sports etc.) and putting in financial support 'modern' football teams need to survive.

What he's doing poorly at the moment is the creation of a successful football team and this starts with a good manager.
I like it that he's not a hire and fire owner and does give managers the opportunity to prove themselves.
His weakness however seems to be, the inability to recognise when a manager's time has run its course.
I think this is where MA comes in i.e. if it wasn't for MA, I suspect that LJ would still be here.

To counter this flaw, here is a man who has tremendous amounts of money which he could safely invest elsewhere, however, he has chosen instead to use his money to try and develop a team that was struggling AND develop Bristol sport in general. Let us think about this for a moment: He doesn't have to do this.

Who could step in and replace him?
Some Jordanian 'gazillionaire' (if I was a rovers fan, I'd be feeling a bit twitchy about my owner i.e. is he going to pull the plug and sink them at some point?)?
What history does City have to attract the requisite billionaire that football teams seem to need nowadays?
And then, once we've got that billionaire, does this then mean instant success (I was looking at how many ex-prem clubs there are are in L1 the other day and I was quite astonished), would they get bored of their new play thing (considering that the amount of time SL has now been with us, it appears he's with City for the longhaul) and dump us, do we want owners of dubious wealth etc.

The OP is entitled to his point of view but has to accept that people won't share it, are not prone to creating narratives that are based on fickleness, and just generally accept that things are not as simple as people would like things to be.

Thanks for taking the time to post this, it almost entirely sums up my views. It’s funny isn’t it, a month or so ago when we were in the top 6 or better and were less decimated with injuries there was hardly any moaning (except perhaps about the ongoing struggle to break teams down at home which is fair enough). Now, after a few defeats huge structural issues emerge and are the reasons for 3 defeats on the trot.