Sunderland fans loving POMO’s and USP’s

[Fordy62]

13 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

I think one of LJ's biggest downfalls is his connection to fans. I'm not sure why maybe its the 'Brent' like phrases ect but it seems wherever he goes he rubs up some fans the wrong way with him just being himself. Even opposition fans seemed to dislike him too.

 

My dislike for LJ is two fold. First the nepotism under which he landed our job and was treated more favourably than any manager ever - especially given Cotts’ lack of backing and eagerness to be sacked - although granted this isn’t anything that LJ had any control over himself. 
 

Secondly and probably more importantly it’s the fact that he tries to be clever. He comes up with all this bollocks while not playing players in their positions. Measuring grass, speaking to ex military, spending time in a Michelin starred restaurant. Honestly, what bollocks. It may get him the odd newspaper article for innovation, but his attempts at being clever don’t impress your average football fan. Then there’s his lack of humility.

Wherever he goes, he’d be well advised to tone it down, not throw players under the bus and accept his mistakes. 

[Monkeh]

Oh for what it's worth, I think he was a very underrated player and the main reason we didn't go up was him getting injured

As a manager he was decent enough, but his record at home was awful and always set a team to counter opposition instead of trying to win a game,

We have some great memories under him but equally the mess we are in now is his fault,

[tin]

45 minutes ago, Robbored said:

And exactly the same when he left.

Sure Sunderland are third but LJ was sacked after his team got stuffed 6-0 - now that kind of result is relatively commonplace throughout the leagues and managers don’t usually get sacked on the back of it.  LJ getting relived of his duties suggests to me that there were other behind the scenes going’s on. Maybe the players weren’t on board the LJ train and possibly his man management skills were the same as his dads and that what’s really lies behind him getting the elbow…………

I have some sympathy for him tho - he’s still living in the shadow of his father and trying desperately to become a success on his own back and so far he’s failed miserably.

Agreed he’s failed miserably but I’ve got no sympathy for him. Him being sacked by us and now Sunderland will have added to the millions of pounds he already has, and don’t forget he has his property empire to fall back on.

He’s a good coach with a track record of improving players and nothing else IMO. 

[lenred]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yet, he slagged off his dad to a forum member (at a Q&A session) along the lines of “my dad is just a good man-manager of lower league players”.  That’s pretty dismissive, and lack of recognition of his own weaknesses in man-management.  He might’ve had a better tactical brain than his dad, but you need more than that.

Did he really? Wow, that’s incredible.  I’m sure there must’ve been context to it as I can’t imagine him saying that seriously tbf?  I’d hope so anyway. 

[IAmNick]

I didn't like or rate LJ as a player, at all, and yes that affected my opinion of him as a manager I'll admit it. I was in utter, utter disbelief when he was appointed and incredibly disappointed.

I did give him a chance once he was here though, and I think he did an OK job. Unremarkable really, like him as a player. The Man U win was the equivalent of his one "clever" dinked little chip at a free kick which worked, out of the 50 he chipped to nobody or into the wall.

However it was also extremely boring, and I genuinely felt my passion for City disappearing in his last year or two which really annoyed me. Combined with the nonsense with Ashton I was thoroughly sick of the pair of them, and extremely happy when he got the boot. I didn't think he had many likeable qualities, and even during some of the highs he somehow managed to say something stupid and make me facepalm a bit (didn't he buy Mourinho an expensive bottle of wine to talk tactics after the match or something ffs?!)

For that reason I checked out his results at Sunderland - he was doing a good job earlier in the season, but yeah there was definitely a smirk or a bit of a laugh when they got thumped. 

Some people take it too far but it's all football pantomime for me. I don't hate the bloke, I'm sure he's a nice enough guy and he definitely gives it his all which is admirable, but I have found what's happened quite amusing... all part of the fun of the game for me. Some ex players I look out for and am happy they're doing well, some I'm happy when they screw it up.

Having those characters is part of what makes the game fun for me, and LJ will always be a big one for us now whatever you think of him...

[And Its Smith]

22 minutes ago, dREDful said:

Confused by the whole "they're third" and "I hope they stay down now" shouts. 

If they stuck with LJ they were staying down and they're clinging onto third at the moment. 

7 league wins in 17 league games - that is not promotion form - Sunderland have looked at the last 17 games of LJ's career and the rest of it to correctly identify that they would remain a League One side under him. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they can find their way back into the top two should they appoint someone with knowledge on promotion. 

LJ is, as he always was, a failure again. 

7 wins from 14 games isn’t bad. Over the last 10 games they are 3rd in the form table. Being 3rd in the league when going for promotion, in January, isn’t a failure really. 

[IAmNick]

8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

7 wins from 14 games isn’t bad. Over the last 10 games they are 3rd in the form table. Being 3rd in the league when going for promotion, in January, isn’t a failure really. 

It's not, but Wigan (2nd) have 4 games in hand on them, and Rotherham (1st) have 2. Just giving the positions doesn't quite paint the full picture of recent results and the standings:

[RUSSEL85]

Sunderland now linked with Jermaine Defoe, I’m thinking more as a player as opposed to a manager. Wonder if they have someone already in place

[Super]

20 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Sunderland now linked with Jermaine Defoe, I’m thinking more as a player as opposed to a manager. Wonder if they have someone already in place

Signed now.

[the1stknowle]

7 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

If cotts is going to be lauded as a ‘double winner’, then Johnson deserves credit for an EFL trophy. 

Some of the replies on this thread are oddly personal. The Lee Johnson years didn’t come close to other, genuine horrors of the past. Yes, he was given time and money, and at our worst we were drab, but at our best we could be scintillating. 

His era had excitement and some of the loftiest heights we experienced in the previous decade. Compare this to other managers of the last 10-20 years who barely even left with a memorable win on their city CV. 
 

The truth is, there is, was, and always will be, some kind of strange personal vendetta against Lee Johnson from sections of our fan base. I don’t understand it, you don’t know the man. He was the manager of your football team, but some of you have such deeply personal character assessments that you can’t possibly be basing solely on that? 
 

Yeah - this is exactly how I feel. What has happened after he left has, by some, been accepted as fact as being down to LJ. Which I've never understood.

For me he took us from perennial relegation to always in and around playoffs and changed the expectations we have in championship. And we got to the semi finals of a cup, where we didn't embarrass ourselves in any way.

It's well past changing anyone's mind on LJ. Opinions are now set. But I will never understand the joy some people here seem to take in things going badly for him ( if by 'badly' I mean a pay off likely to be approaching seven figures. Ouch!)

Over a year at Sunderland, the clear fact is he won more than one out of every two games they play. I know some Sunderland fans think that is 'the bare minimum Sunderland should be doing' ... but they are wrong. A 50% win ratio outside of the massive dominant sides in Europe is very very impressive. It should be evidence that he has something about him as a manager.

[pongo88]

8 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Random shout for his next job, England age group stuff, think the U20’s are without a coach atm. Takes him out of the league spotlight for now.

I’m not sure if there is a vacancy, but this could be a good option for him as being an England manager of any sort would suit his ego.  SoD managed the England U19s after he left City. 

1 hour ago, RedRoss said:

I think one of LJ's biggest downfalls is his connection to fans. I'm not sure why maybe its the 'Brent' like phrases ect but it seems wherever he goes he rubs up some fans the wrong way with him just being himself. Even opposition fans seemed to dislike him too.

I think Sunderland was a very bad choice as their fans have got a sense of entitlement whenever I look on their forum. They may well be punching below their apparent club size and have for a while but they're expectation is very high so the chances of appeasing that fanbase was always going to be difficult.

 

In a way I think you’re right about Sunderland being a bad choice, but when you’re an unemployed football manager you’ve got to take what you can get. After being sacked by City, his options were somewhat limited. He wouldn’t have been offered a Premier League job. There was limited opportunity at Championship level and he probably wouldn’t have wanted a job at a small League One, or below, club. Now, I think his options are far more limited - League One or abroad at a lower level.  Perhaps the latter option would be best as his use of strange jargon might sound intelligent in other countries where supporters don’t speak English 

[IAmNick]

12 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Over a year at Sunderland, the clear fact is he won more than one out of every two games they play. I know some Sunderland fans think that is 'the bare minimum Sunderland should be doing' ... but they are wrong. A 50% win ratio outside of the massive dominant sides in Europe is very very impressive. It should be evidence that he has something about him as a manager.

Is it? It's all relative to the clubs stature in the league surely.

Sunderland fired their manager before last when they were in 6th, and he had over a 50% win rate as well.

[maxjak]

14 hours ago, Red Alert said:

I like him but a team vying for promotion do not lose 6:0. Think they’ll look back at this as a brutal but smart move if they hire the right successor.

Blackburn?

[Ben1980]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

I didn't like or rate LJ as a player, at all, and yes that affected my opinion of him as a manager I'll admit it. I was in utter, utter disbelief when he was appointed and incredibly disappointed.

I did give him a chance once he was here though, and I think he did an OK job. Unremarkable really, like him as a player. The Man U win was the equivalent of his one "clever" dinked little chip at a free kick which worked, out of the 50 he chipped to nobody or into the wall.

However it was also extremely boring, and I genuinely felt my passion for City disappearing in his last year or two which really annoyed me. Combined with the nonsense with Ashton I was thoroughly sick of the pair of them, and extremely happy when he got the boot. I didn't think he had many likeable qualities, and even during some of the highs he somehow managed to say something stupid and make me facepalm a bit (didn't he buy Mourinho an expensive bottle of wine to talk tactics after the match or something ffs?!)

For that reason I checked out his results at Sunderland - he was doing a good job earlier in the season, but yeah there was definitely a smirk or a bit of a laugh when they got thumped. 

Some people take it too far but it's all football pantomime for me. I don't hate the bloke, I'm sure he's a nice enough guy and he definitely gives it his all which is admirable, but I have found what's happened quite amusing... all part of the fun of the game for me. Some ex players I look out for and am happy they're doing well, some I'm happy when they screw it up.

Having those characters is part of what makes the game fun for me, and LJ will always be a big one for us now whatever you think of him...

My feelings towards LJ are similar to yours- pretty ambivalent really. Don’t like him that much but don’t dislike him that much either. Much more warmth towards Cotts who I would root for elsewhere. 
 

As others have said, I always felt that LJ would have been better off focusing on the basics (man management, consistency in team selection etc) rather than messing around in Michelin star restaurants. Thankfully it feels like we now have a manager who talks with clarity and has a non-nonsense approach which I personally much prefer. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Ben1980

[maxjak]

14 hours ago, weepywall said:

2 points off the top of the league...bad defeat yesterday but strange decision.

Their Chairman is an entitled impulsive 24 year old........probably threw a hissy fit, after his dad told him off?

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Random shout for his next job, England age group stuff, think the U20’s are without a coach atm. Takes him out of the league spotlight for now.

He isn’t gonna take a low paid job like that, nor would he get day to day involvement.

Its a bonkers sacking don’t get me wrong, but I’m not sure where LJ goes from here.

[BTRFTG]

To those still not getting why Sunderland acted as they did, let's put in terms you may understand.

There are two types in life: those who pay to take their perfectly performing cars in for service and those who think it wiser to save money and act only when the warning lights appear. They're easy to distinguish, the former putting miles very quickly between themselves and the latter who await rescue on the hard shoulder.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Ipswich next season 

I did wonder whether Ashton was thinking, darn I went too early on McKenna.

[Selred]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

possibly his man management skills were the same as his dads and that what’s really lies behind him getting the elbow……

I thought actually that was one of Gary's strong points! Let's be honest we weren't tactically Brazil, we had a lot of grifters fighting for the shirt under GJ.

[RedM]

He was never going to get the patience he had here, but getting sacked when sitting well placed for promotion, again, does seem harsh. It's almost like they were waiting for an excuse to sack him and the result made it easy. Will be interesting to see when he goes to next

[CodeRed]

11 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

When Ipswich do not get promoted this season , then hello LJ 

I think LJ's seen enough of Mark Ashton up close and how he operates - and MA's seen (and heard) enough of how LJ works for both of them to not want to touch each other even with an extremely long bargepole.

[maxjak]

13 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

The ex players I’ve heard on certain podcasts, are far from fond of him

Who are?

[SecretSam]

3 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

Were we really??  Granted, Cotts threw his toys out of the pram when he felt he wasn’t being backed and results took a dive, but there was a very good, if small squad there.

Do you honestly believe that double winning squad LJ inherited was more of a mess than the bloated squad of overpaid misfits and dross he left us with and we’re still trying to clear out?

 

Didn't we only have something like 19 players when he took over - we were a mess. And saying "Oh, he had the double winning squad" - that's the League 1 double, the gap between L1 and the Championship is huge.

The squad comment is right, tho', yes, we were a mess - but I already acknowledged that this time had come here. And I'm not sure that he was entirely to blame for the squad - he was a young manager, with no experience of managing at this level, and possibly influenced too much by others.

I'm not saying he was a rip-roaring success here, but saying he was useless from day one is just nonsense.

[Sleepy1968]

'Johnson said "I'm absolutely shocked. We were in a strong position in the league and whilst the manner of the defeat was disappointing, I thought we were unlucky to lose by 6 at Bolton. I'm going to take a few days break in Guernsey and then maybe I'll jet off to Bermuda for a couple of weeks with the family. I'll be leaving my phone off, so I'll deal with all the job offers when I get back."'

[maxjak]

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He isn’t gonna take a low paid job like that, nor would he get day to day involvement.

Its a bonkers sacking don’t get me wrong, but I’m not sure where LJ goes from here.

It Appears to me that  the problem with clubs in the North East is that they want fairly instant success, and do not give manager's sufficient time to create a side. Not a particulary original view I know,, but true?    It's a real knee jerk sacking by a young impulsive Chairman?

Edited January 31, 2022 by maxjak

[TonyTonyTony]

Johnson is currently League 1 manager of the month (December). Such a fickle game

[B1ackbird]

21 minutes ago, maxjak said:

It Appears to me that  the problem with clubs in the North East is that they want fairly instant success, and do not give manager's sufficient time to create a side. Not a particulary original view I know,, but true?    It's a real knee jerk sacking by a young impulsive Chairman?

People could argue we gave him more than enough time, and where did it get us???

[Red-Robbo]

8 minutes ago, B1ackbird said:

People could argue we gave him more than enough time, and where did it get us???

 

At the same time, if we'd released Pearson after 6 months - as a number of fans were asking for - it would've been a big mistake. 

[Harry]

2 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Is it? It's all relative to the clubs stature in the league surely.

Sunderland fired their manager before last when they were in 6th, and he had over a 50% win rate as well.

This is true. 
Jack Ross had lost the playoff final the year before and was sacked after starting the season W 5, D 4, L 2. 
Was sacked to bring in Parkinson, which was an utter joke. He went on to win only 2 of his first 9 games!! 
He was then sacked the next season after starting W 6, D 5, L 2. 
LJ has now been sacked with a record in his last 14 games of W 7, D 5, L2. 
 

It seems that, for the Sunderland owner, if you lose 2 games in the period of 3 months, you aren’t good enough. 
Laughable ownership. 
 

To be honest, I’m actually glad LJ is out of that club. It was the wrong club for him. Contrary to others comments on here, I’m confident his stock is not damaged though. Dismissed from City when in the top 10 in the championship and then dismissed at Sunderland whilst 3rd and with a nearly 52% win ratio. I’d imagine he’ll still be a very sought after manager. 
 

Also, LJ had recently brought in a new head of recruitment. Apparently he is baffled by the decision, so I hear! 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Harry

[ChippenhamRed]

29 minutes ago, B1ackbird said:

People could argue we gave him more than enough time, and where did it get us???

It got us four consecutive seasons of Championship league position improvement, and even when that run ended we still finished a very respectable 12th. Three top-half finishes in a row. So he helped establish us a Championship club and gave us a firm base from which to kick on.

His time here was far from disastrous, we enjoyed some great moments during his tenure (cup run in particular), and his win percentage - without the benefit of any time in the easier League One - compares favourably with any manager in our living memory. And before anyone says "but look how much money he was given" - comparing spending from different eras is entirely irrelevant, if you compare our net spending with that of our rivals, it was never more than mid-table.

I think LJ left at the right time. But personally I think he is worthy of a little more respect than he often gets.