"We'll get value by playing him", really?

[collier]

5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Whereas some believe that he’s actually , and has been , integral to our dour football and stalling progression since he was signed

 

You keep sucking

 

You just don't like the guy, your in every thread about him doing poorly. Top scorer for 3 season's, goal in every 3 games average. We have been dour with him in the team and without. Fact is the the club play dour football, that's down to coaches and manager not the top scorer. You just can't see the wood for the tree's.

[Cowshed]

11 minutes ago, collier said:

Yea those boys been tearing it up in the goal scoring department. That Famara done nothing all season, never scores or tried or defends for us. Fan's are so fickle, you lot will be sucking him off again saying how much he brings to the team if he gets a few goals in the next couple of games. Don't bother calling out the other 10 players that contribute to us losing every week.

The Diedhiou problem - Football Chat - One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums (otib.co.uk)

The thread here is years old. The criticism of this player is consistent and even.

Last nights XI was youthful. Who was this young teams leader, their talisman the senior player who consistently displays the behaviours the team needs and aspires to? 

 

 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, collier said:

I don't see 10 other thread's about the other 10 players that have had bad games all season long. Famara gets one after every game unless he scores regardless of what he does on the pitch. Just because he has a low amount of time left on his contract everyone jumps on the bandwagon every week. The guy has done wonders up front for us over his time here, he has scored countless goals and saved plenty at the other end in a team that creates nothing, cut him some slack instead of piling on because he is the easy target.

 

Your advocating dropping our top scorer for the last 3 season's for a kid with less than 90 minutes game time and Semenyo who has played all season and has yet to score a league goal.  

For a game or two yes I do advocate that. I won't be raging if Holden keeps him in the side to be honest but I just happen to think that he needs a rest because his form at the moment is poor and he hasn't helped us as an attacking threat for three games now. I'm certainly not piling on the bloke, I know there are one or two that really don't rate him but that is for them to explain, not me.

One thing I can guarantee you though is that I won't be sucking him off at any time.

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, collier said:

You just don't like the guy, your in every thread about him doing poorly. Top scorer for 3 season's, goal in every 3 games average. We have been dour with him in the team and without. Fact is the the club play dour football, that's down to coaches and manager not the top scorer. You just can't see the wood for the tree's.

I don’t particularly rate him if that’s what you mean - he’s not a dud and on the face of it his goal return isn’t shoddy , but scratching beneath that......

 

What’s your view on his all round game and how it effects our team structure , way of playing , effects on teamates poitive or negative etc 
 

‘wood from the trees’  hmmmmm

[collier]

3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The Diedhiou problem - Football Chat - One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums (otib.co.uk)

The thread here is years old. The criticism of this player is consistent and even.

Last nights XI was youthful. Who was this young teams leader, their talisman the senior player who consistently displays the behaviours the team needs and aspires to? 

 

 

I just read the first page and you have about 5 negative posts about the player. Pointless even debating with you, you had your mind made up about the player 3 years ago.

[Sheltons Army]

7 minutes ago, collier said:

I just read the first page and you have about 5 negative posts about the player. Pointless even debating with you, you had your mind made up about the player 3 years ago.

So , .....nothing then 

I think Cowshed looks a bit wider and deeper than you do

[steviestevieneville]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Could Conway be the dark horse in this group?

I don’t follow the academy very closely but isn’t it Conway who’s broken all our youth teams goal scoring records 

[collier]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I don’t particularly rate him if that’s what you mean - he’s not a dud and on the face of it his goal return isn’t shoddy , but scratching beneath that......

 

What’s your view on his all round game and how it effects our team structure , way of playing , effects on teamates poitive or negative etc 

You don't rate him fact. He is a striker. The only metric that most people judge strikers on is goals. FWIW he does not have the best touch in the world but just go back and look at the team set up over the years he has been here. We slung him upfront on his own countless times and punted aimless balls at him then complained he doesn't hold the ball up. I would say that every player in the team has bad games and good ones but the spotlight is always shined on fam when he has a bad game.

 

You or me have no clue how his performances have an effect on team mates so what point are you trying to make here?

Coaches make decisions on the teams style of play and bring in and play players accordingly so to blame fam for us playing shit football is again laughable, structure tactics etc etc are all nothing to do with player decisions. 

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, collier said:

I just read the first page and you have about 5 negative posts about the player. Pointless even debating with you, you had your mind made up about the player 3 years ago.

Yes he was not suitable for the teams approach at that time due to obvious limitations in his technical ability and physicality in and out of possession.

Now? Your argument is he scores 1 in 3 well that is decent but not exceptional. 

What else? What did the player add to the team last night in and out of possession? This player is not a debutant, a player lacking experience, he is one of the biggest wage earners in the XI, a constant over seasons, the expectations should be different for this player. 

[collier]

Just now, Cowshed said:

Yes he was not suitable for the teams approach at that time due to obvious limitations in his technical ability and physicality in and out of possession.

Now? Your argument is he scores 1 in 3 well that is decent but not exceptional. 

What else? What did the player add to the team last night in and out of possession? This player is not a debutant, a player lacking experience, he is one of the biggest wage earners in the XI, a constant over seasons, the expectations should be different for this player. 

Why should the expectation be different for him over 10 other professional football players? That just shows your bias. 

Kalas, Mawson, Hunt, Pato, Wells that's half the out field team that played last night but your saying that Fam should be held in different expectations to these players? Please show me how your comment has no bias involved?

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, collier said:

You don't rate him fact. He is a striker. The only metric that most people judge strikers on is goals. FWIW he does not have the best touch in the world but just go back and look at the team set up over the years he has been here. We slung him upfront on his own countless times and punted aimless balls at him then complained he doesn't hold the ball up. I would say that every player in the team has bad games and good ones but the spotlight is always shined on fam when he has a bad game.

 

You or me have no clue how his performances have an effect on team mates so what point are you trying to make here?

Coaches make decisions on the teams style of play and bring in and play players accordingly so to blame fam for us playing shit football is again laughable, structure tactics etc etc are all nothing to do with player decisions. 

So how many ineffective games on the bounce where he doesn't threaten a goal, doesn't hold the ball up and doesn't press the opposition back four would you allow him to have before considering his place in the team? I have nailed my colours to the mast and said three poor games is the point at which you drop a player which I think is reasonable at pro level. Would you just pick him every game regardless of performance just on the basis you "rate him" and nothing else? Do that and you'll have a few players banging loudly on your Manager's Office door.

Having the opinion that a player should be rested for a game or two is not the same as saying said player is useless.......or at least that's not my interpretation of it anyway.

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, collier said:

You don't rate him fact. He is a striker. The only metric that most people judge strikers on is goals. FWIW he does not have the best touch in the world but just go back and look at the team set up over the years he has been here. We slung him upfront on his own countless times and punted aimless balls at him then complained he doesn't hold the ball up. I would say that every player in the team has bad games and good ones but the spotlight is always shined on fam when he has a bad game.

 

You or me have no clue how his performances have an effect on team mates so what point are you trying to make here?

Coaches make decisions on the teams style of play and bring in and play players accordingly so to blame fam for us playing shit football is again laughable, structure tactics etc etc are all nothing to do with player decisions. 

Well firstly as for your last para , IJohnson brought him in - With what plan ?

Johnson when asked directly how he fitted in with his self proclaimed ‘Busy Bees’ philosophy couldn’t answer 

As for effects on the team performance , cohesion , our style of play 

You might gauge the quality of a striker in number of goals alone - I certainly don’t ( We arn’t talking prolific by any means here btw when you hail his goals)

 

Do you think he improves us as a team  ?

Do you think , just for example , the fact that numerous partners have been up unable to link with him is mere coincidence ?

 

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, collier said:

Why should the expectation be different for him over 10 other professional football players? That just shows your bias. 

Kalas, Mawson, Hunt, Pato, Wells that's half the out field team that played last night but your saying that Fam should be held in different expectations to these players? Please show me how your comment has no bias involved?

He's (or could be She's !!) actually saying ALL of the players you name plus Fam should be considered to the same expectations which are significantly higher than Towler, Vyner, Moore, O'Leary etc.

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, collier said:

Why should the expectation be different for him over 10 other professional football players? That just shows your bias. 

Kalas, Mawson, Hunt, Pato, Wells that's half the out field team that played last night but your saying that Fam should be held in different expectations to these players? Please show me how your comment has no bias involved?

Because we arnt discussing them here - It’s about Diedhiou

Deflection

 

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Because we arnt discussing them here - It’s about Diedhiou

Deflection

 

Not only that but Wells has received both barrels in terms of the deserved criticism for one particular element of his performance last night.

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, collier said:

Why should the expectation be different for him over 10 other professional football players? That just shows your bias. 

Kalas, Mawson, Hunt, Pato, Wells that's half the out field team that played last night but your saying that Fam should be held in different expectations to these players? Please show me how your comment has no bias involved?

Because the player is a senior pro. Teams have players who are leaders. Teams have players who uphold the values and culture of the team. Teams have players who will be more advanced physically and psychologically. Teams have players who have roles that differ to others.  

Please show me how your comment has no bias involved? It would be illogical to have the same expectation v Towler. 

[Lrrr]

7 minutes ago, collier said:

Why should the expectation be different for him over 10 other professional football players? That just shows your bias. 

Kalas, Mawson, Hunt, Pato, Wells that's half the out field team that played last night but your saying that Fam should be held in different expectations to these players? Please show me how your comment has no bias involved?

Because he was once a record transfer for us perhaps? Kalas gets scrutiny over his performances being our highest fee but his performances have generally been better. To flip your point though, why should players who we've signed for £750,000 (Pato) and £1.6m(?) Hunt hold the same expectation as someone who cost £5.6m? Wells has received plenty of criticism and still has the level of expectation with his scoring record so he's not treated differently to Famara. Mawson I think you'd find also has held a good standard of performance since he's been here and hasn't had a run of sub standard performances where effort can also be called into question.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, collier said:

I don't see 10 other thread's about the other 10 players that have had bad games all season long. Famara gets one after every game unless he scores regardless of what he does on the pitch. Just because he has a low amount of time left on his contract everyone jumps on the bandwagon every week. The guy has done wonders up front for us over his time here, he has scored countless goals and saved plenty at the other end in a team that creates nothing, cut him some slack instead of piling on because he is the easy target.

 

Your advocating dropping our top scorer for the last 3 season's for a kid with less than 90 minutes game time and Semenyo who has played all season and has yet to score a league goal.  

Out of interest how many goals have we conceded from corners / set-pieces aimed to the near post area this season?  The answer is none.  Chris Martin did just as good a job in that position this season, across more minutes.  So by all means give Fam credit for his defensive work, but please also accept it’s not an irreplaceable skill that we fail to fill when Fam doesn’t start.  Bigger probs have been conceding from headers from set-pieces to far post areas.

Hes an easy target because he’s set his mind on leaving, and in certain runs of games he appears to give less effort than in other games.

Personally I’d advocate playing whichever group of eleven players can achieve results (and performances) together.  If that means Semenyo or Bell starting, I don’t mind.  I don’t really care who scores and who doesn’t either.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Because he was once a record transfer for us perhaps? Kalas gets scrutiny over his performances being our highest fee but his performances have generally been better. To flip your point though, why should players who we've signed for £750,000 (Pato) and £1.6m(?) Hunt hold the same expectation as someone who cost £5.6m? Wells has received plenty of criticism and still has the level of expectation with his scoring record so he's not treated differently to Famara. Mawson I think you'd find also has held a good standard of performance since he's been here and hasn't had a run of sub standard performances where effort can also be called into question.

The thing is all of these posters have had criticism on the forum at some point or another. There just seems to be one particular poster who is sensitive to criticism of Dave.....

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

The thing is all of these posters have had criticism on the forum at some point or another. There just seems to be one particular poster who is sensitive to criticism of Dave.....

We've not got another Magnússon situation have we?  Or whichever player it was

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Because the player is a senior pro. Teams have players who are leaders. Teams have players who uphold the values and culture of the team. Teams have players who will be more advanced physically and psychologically. Teams have players who have roles that differ to others.  

Please show me how your comment has no bias involved? It would be illogical to have the same expectation v Towler. 

Think the  poster has a bit of a man love bias on this particular subject

 

His ‘s*****g off’ comment an indicator we are wasting our breath 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Out of interest how many goals have we conceded from corners / set-pieces aimed to the near post area this season?  The answer is none.  Chris Martin did just as good a job in that position this season, across more minutes.  So by all means give Fam credit for his defensive work, but please also accept it’s not an irreplaceable skill that we fail to fill when Fam doesn’t start.  Bigger probs have been conceding from headers from set-pieces to far post areas.

Hes an easy target because he’s set his mind on leaving, and in certain runs of games he appears to give less effort than in other games.

Personally I’d advocate playing whichever group of eleven players can achieve results (and performances) together.  If that means Semenyo or Bell starting, I don’t mind.  I don’t really care who scores and who doesn’t either.

It's exactly what you say....he's in the middle of a poor "run" of games so take him out and in a week or three give him another opportunity to have a "better" run of games. It's about managing players not picking on them. They aren't machines, don't always do what you expect of them for a huge number of potential reasons and it has to be managed.

Managing Kasey Palmer is the really trick task......you know he's got 20 minutes in him where he can turn a game in our favour but he can't tell the Manager which twenty minutes it will be!!

[collier]

3 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Well firstly as for your last para , IJohnson brought him in - With what plan ?

Johnson when asked directly how he fitted in with his self proclaimed ‘Busy Bees’ philosophy couldn’t answer 

As for effects on the team performance , cohesion , our style of play 

You might gauge the quality of a striker in number of goals alone - I certainly don’t ( We arn’t talking prolific by any means here btw when you hail his goals)

 

Do you think he improves us as a team  ?

Do you think , just for example , the fact that numerous partners have been up unable to link with him is mere coincidence ?

 

So numerous partner's being unable to link with him and again you automatically equate that to being Fam's fault. You see the problem there? Did you ask why maybe they couldn't link with Fam and maybe why is he still the one in the team scoring goals and these numerous partner's are not?? I suppose it's just coincidence huh?

 

With regard's to him improving us, yes. Take him out of every game we have played this season and his 6 goals for example and we have 9 less points. That put's us 2 points above the drop with a game in hand for Derby. Is that the kind of improvement as a team you were looking for or are you going to move the goalposts to some other hypothetical situation where we would be much better off without him?? 

[Sheltons Army]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest how many goals have we conceded from corners / set-pieces aimed to the near post area this season?  The answer is none.  Chris Martin did just as good a job in that position this season, across more minutes.  So by all means give Fam credit for his defensive work, but please also accept it’s not an irreplaceable skill that we fail to fill when Fam doesn’t start.  Bigger probs have been conceding from headers from set-pieces to far post areas.

Hes an easy target because he’s set his mind on leaving, and in certain runs of games he appears to give less effort than in other games.

Personally I’d advocate playing whichever group of eleven players can achieve results (and performances) together.  If that means Semenyo or Bell starting, I don’t mind.  I don’t really care who scores and who doesn’t either.

I’ll go beyond that I’m afraid

Looks like a lion but is really a mouse

Puts it in when he fancies a lot of the time , and when he does looks a completely different player

But that’s not a new thing - he’s been the same since he arrived

Seems a really nice bloke but .........Leader from the front....warrior....a winner ........no

 

I don’t take to any player who turns up when they fancy it

I hope if he’s off he goes to Middlesbrough because if he puts the same energy into games as he’s often done here Warnock will tear him a new one 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, collier said:

So numerous partner's being unable to link with him and again you automatically equate that to being Fam's fault. You see the problem there? Did you ask why maybe they couldn't link with Fam and maybe why is he still the one in the team scoring goals and these numerous partner's are not?? I suppose it's just coincidence huh?

 

With regard's to him improving us, yes. Take him out of every game we have played this season and his 6 goals for example and we have 9 less points. That put's us 2 points above the drop with a game in hand for Derby. Is that the kind of improvement as a team you were looking for or are you going to move the goalposts to some other hypothetical situation where we would be much better off without him?? 

So basically you believe him to be undroppable then?

[collier]

15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

He's (or could be She's !!) actually saying ALL of the players you name plus Fam should be considered to the same expectations which are significantly higher than Towler, Vyner, Moore, O'Leary etc.

No, go read their post again and stop trying to twist what they said. First para states HE second HE and the last said THIS player. How exactly is he talking about the others??

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, collier said:

No, go read their post again and stop trying to twist what they said. First para states HE second HE and the last said THIS player. How exactly is he talking about the others??

Wow. You have taken that literally. If you go a few posts down you will see that the same poster pretty much confirms my reading of their post. What Cowshed is saying is that the more experienced and more expensive players get judged to higher standards than the kids. I cannot help the fact that he needed to write that word for word rather than use the player being discussed as the example for you to understand that but for me and many others, I'm sure, that was obviously what he was getting at.

We aren't appearing in court.

[collier]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest how many goals have we conceded from corners / set-pieces aimed to the near post area this season?  The answer is none.  Chris Martin did just as good a job in that position this season, across more minutes.  So by all means give Fam credit for his defensive work, but please also accept it’s not an irreplaceable skill that we fail to fill when Fam doesn’t start.  Bigger probs have been conceding from headers from set-pieces to far post areas.

Hes an easy target because he’s set his mind on leaving, and in certain runs of games he appears to give less effort than in other games.

Personally I’d advocate playing whichever group of eleven players can achieve results (and performances) together.  If that means Semenyo or Bell starting, I don’t mind.  I don’t really care who scores and who doesn’t either.

There you have the entire reason that everybody is on the bandwagon.

 

Are you also saying that Fam and just him is the only one who appears to give less effort in games? So nobody else this season has ever given less than 100% in every game because I watched 95% of games this season but I don't dog pile on to players on a weekly basis for it. 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Wow. You have taken that literally. If you go a few posts down you will see that the same poster pretty much confirms my reading of their post. What Cowshed is saying is that the more experienced and more expensive players get judged to higher standards than the kids. I cannot help the fact that he needed to write that word for word rather than use the player being discussed as the example for you to understand that but for me and many others, I'm sure, that was obviously what he was getting at.

We aren't appearing in court.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

Destroyed.........