"We'll get value by playing him", really?

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Ha ha - Yes ! !

I like their centre halves - Anderson always put in a performance when I’ve seen them

Just turned 23 too.  

Their recruitment on a budget puts ours to shame.

[PHILINFRANCE]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just turned 23 too.  

Their recruitment on a budget puts ours to shame.

Perhaps they favour and use different agents than Mr. Ashton our recruitment team.

[collier]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Put it this way, I see lots of Fam’s partners having to adapt the way they play to fit around the way he plays....often to their detriment.  Wells and Weimann are classic examples.  Fam takes the space where they want to run....central.  So they have to run the lines of the penalty area (and wider) because Fam isn’t clever enough (football clever) to ever make a run to give space for someone else.  He is so reactive it’s untrue.

I get that Fam was our record signing, hey, I thought he was a good signing (watched him a lot at Angers), but if anything he’s not really improved since he came here and has been allowed to play a selfish role.  Poor coaching partially responsible for that.  They’ve allowed him to play that role.  He made better runs / movement in his open 3 months here than his last 3 years.

I think you think I’m saying he’s a bad player, well I’m not.  But I believe he stifles effective team play and his partners in the way he’s played far too often.  I’m surprised our coaches haven’t seen that.  He stifles any attempt to play a high / higher press too.  He gets a good return of goals per game, but a year without an assist and only 8 in his time here is telling too.

Re your “9 points” analogy....did we play those with 10 men?  That’s a stupid argument isn’t it?  

He has been ambling around.  Worth watching back v Huddersfield.  Couple of goals.  Fantastic.  Job done in his mind.  Switch off, let Sarr bring it forward. Cue Huddersfield dominance.

Same against Brentford, where I, one of the few who thought he did ok 1st half.  Second half, ambling around again.  Beck-Sorensen brings it forward, sprays it around.

Not saying he’s the only one at fault in this, but this is a thread about Fam.  I’m not selective in praise or criticism.

It happens too often.

When he puts his mind to it, he’s a very different player.  But over recent games nobody can tell me he’s put a real shift in.  Needs a kick up the arse, but I suspect there is a fear of him completely downing tools.  I’d take that risk.  He is leaving for zilch as it stands, what is there to lose.

I didn't say that you had a bad view of fam. For what it's worth anything he does on the pitch with regards to partners is obviously what he has been coached to do, unless anyone is advocating that he is ignoring team instruction's. I can't put a man down for doing a job that supposedly put's his strike partners in a bad light if that is what he is coached to do. 

 

Huddersfield game he scored 2 goals in a game we win 2-1. I bet if you asked professional managers would they take a striker doing **** all for 90 minutes except score 2 goals they would take it. Are you saying that us having our back's to the walls all game was simply because a championship player made a mistake in a game where he scored the 2 winning goals?

Hypothetically speaking then, Would you have taken Fam running his ass off for 90 minutes creating clear cut chances for other's, defending like a centre half in a game we lose 1-0 or what he did in a 2-1 win??

Be honest, if that scenario had played out would you have written that sentence in that post? 

 

Re your comment about playing with 10 men. I was asked what he brought to the team, taking a strikers goals that he brought to the team during those matches was my only option seeing as he is a lazy player with a shit touch that makes all other striker's look bad around him. I mean what else does he do? hence this thread.

[old_eastender]

22 hours ago, Robin Wood said:

The club should never have let his contract get to the final year and he looks like a player who is looking after his own interests and who can blame him likely to become a multi millionaire on his next move

Spot-on, Ashton has to carry the can for this.

[Rob k]

5 hours ago, collier said:

Huddersfield game he scored 2 goals in a game we win 2-1. I bet if you asked professional managers would they take a striker doing **** all for 90 minutes except score 2 goals they would take it. Are you saying that us having our back's to the walls all game was simply because a championship player made a mistake in a game where he scored the 2 winning goals?

Hypothetically speaking then, Would you have taken Fam running his ass off for 90 minutes creating clear cut chances for other's, defending like a centre half in a game we lose 1-0 or what he did in a 2-1 win??

 

The game has moved on from the days where you could have a player doing nothing else but score a few goals......Fam as a player is a very average championship striker, not great not rubbish, im i disappointed he’s leaving...not really, he’s way down there the list on strikers we have had in recent years when it comes to ability 

[Mad Cyril]

Tell him to up his game or else he will be training with the medical team 

[Alessandro]

I know some of you will say, here we go again, another stick to beat the club with.

But for me Famara is another **** up by them.

I understand you can’t make a player sign a contract, but you can see it coming, and plan for it.

The ‘going public’ by Ashton on Sky was always a risky move, and a stupid comment to make - a gamble that didn’t pay off.
 

Why? Because no one came in to spend millions on him (who would when he’s free in a few months) and now we’re left with a potentially demotivated player, getting what value from him? Well not much right now...

Would that matter normally? Well no, if we could drop him! But he’s leading the bloody line.

Apparently here we are, in a good position in the league, a few points off and chasing the playoffs......

But we don’t have another option to lead the line other than a player we publicly outed...because they didn’t plan, get cover and the injuries debacle at the club has compounded it. 

[big dosser]

think its time for us all to accept fam is on his way, he has been a decent servant to the club but it is time to start playing some of the young lads and see if they can take there chance. Lets be honest they cant do any worse, time to rebuild are front line.

also if fam don't want to sign a new contract then his heart and passion is not at Bristol city so in than case goodbye good luck and move on.

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, collier said:

I didn't say that you had a bad view of fam.

no, I know, just qualifying my rounded view of him, he has good points and bad points, though this thread is focussing on the more negative aspects.

For what it's worth anything he does on the pitch with regards to partners is obviously what he has been coached to do, unless anyone is advocating that he is ignoring team instruction's. I can't put a man down for doing a job that supposedly put's his strike partners in a bad light if that is what he is coached to do.

I’m probably the biggest advocate of “Fam is being asked to perform a role he isn’t really suited for”, e.g. target man, but I think aside from that he doesn’t execute some of the things where role-type is immaterial.

 

Huddersfield game he scored 2 goals in a game we win 2-1. I bet if you asked professional managers would they take a striker doing **** all for 90 minutes except score 2 goals they would take it.

They woukd be delighted in a one-off game, or if he did that at a regular enough rate to compensate for other weaknesses.  I don’t think his goal record covers that.  It’s decent, but in comparing to Wells, do either (as it currently stands) score enough goals to allow them the luxury of it not being important to be more of a team player?  Not in my view.

Are you saying that us having our back's to the walls all game was simply because a championship player made a mistake in a game where he scored the 2 winning goals?

Not sure what you mean by “mistake”.

Hypothetically speaking then, Would you have taken Fam running his ass off for 90 minutes creating clear cut chances for other's, defending like a centre half in a game we lose 1-0 or what he did in a 2-1 win??

Yes, because I view a players performance more widely that just looking at a 1 or 0 in the goal scored column (or in fact 2 goals in this particular game).

What I also do is try to evaluate a performance in THE game I’m reviewing.  I’m quite happy to say  8/10 one week, 4/10.  I try not to bias my evaluation beyond the game in question.  I then use all those individual evaluations to form an overall opinion.  One that is regular updated.  Why tar a player after 1 game, why think he’s the badgers nadgers after 1 game.  Firm an opinion, review your opinion, adjust your opinion.

Be honest, if that scenario had played out would you have written that sentence in that post? 

Yes, go and read many of my posts.  I try not to let result cloud my evaluation.  I also bring opponent into the evaluation too.  If Jack Hunt was playing against Jack Grealish, I’d probably not be critical if he he offered little by way of attacking contribution.

Re your comment about playing with 10 men. I was asked what he brought to the team, taking a strikers goals that he brought to the team during those matches was my only option seeing as he is a lazy player with a shit touch that makes all other striker's look bad around him. I mean what else does he do? hence this thread.

You’ll never hear me generalising about Fam’s touch, because at times it is sublime.  He is a frustrating mixed bag.  Overall he’s done ok, his goals record is decent, but it clouds (imho) his overall contribution to the team performance.  He has great games he has bad games.

The 3 or 4 in January were really nice to view.  The last 3 or 4 have been the opposite.

Overall, I think we are sinking £8m on him.  That’s not all his fault, there’s a CEO who has failed to get him to sign a new contract, or find a club to take him off our hands for a fee that compensates us.

I will continue to watch match by match.

I hope he goes back to playing like a month ago.  That will be great, and it will prove that the last 3 or 4 games are just a “funny spell” and not a “on the beach spell”.  Likewise if he does carry on like the last few game....will you adjust your view of him?

 

[CHIPLEY RED]

On 11/02/2021 at 08:37, Sheltons Army said:

Numerous games , and periods , throughout his time here when his ‘heart doesn’t look in it’

The current one just another

 

I would have to counter that by saying there have been games where he has been outstanding upfront and defending especially set pieces.

If he is not interested and just running down his contract what are the other strikers doing. Last time I looked he was our top scorer having played less games than Wells and Martin.

Don't put all the blame on Fam who at the beginning of the season was 3rd choice striker behind Wells and Martin. The team is on a bad run.

[collier]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I just think he has always played in spells, if he was consistent every game then no disrespect to us but he would be playing at a higher level. He has the attributes to be a top player and I just think that we City fan's think that we are better than we are. He top scored for 2 season's in boring attacking sides. I think the fact we payed 5+ million is now looked down upon because of the current market. When we paid it, that was the going rate that we would not be paying in today's climate.

[collier]

9 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

I would have to counter that by saying there have been games where he has been outstanding upfront and defending especially set pieces.

If he is not interested and just running down his contract what are the other strikers doing. Last time I looked he was our top scorer having played less games than Wells and Martin.

Don't put all the blame on Fam who at the beginning of the season was 3rd choice striker behind Wells and Martin. The team is on a bad run.

A lot of people's views on Fam are skewed because of his contract situation. It doesn't matter when he does good things, only relevant when he is is on a bad run as it's an easy stick to beat him with.

[Sheltons Army]

54 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

I would have to counter that by saying there have been games where he has been outstanding upfront and defending especially set pieces.

If he is not interested and just running down his contract what are the other strikers doing. Last time I looked he was our top scorer having played less games than Wells and Martin.

Don't put all the blame on Fam who at the beginning of the season was 3rd choice striker behind Wells and Martin. The team is on a bad run.

I’ve never put ‘all the blame on Fam’ - he’s just one of many issues we have , and I happen to believe has been one of our integral issues,  in the last few years rather than lauding him as some chest beating saviour , , that some do.

So it’s nothing to do with contracts , albeit , he appears to have led us a merry dance , - I just happen to think he’s , (and I’m talking his overall contribution to team play and any hope of progression ) way over rated by some , and has been for his time here.

He goes missing on a regular basis and ups his game when rattled or the transfer window looms and that’s a trait I find unpalatable in any player, and one of my biggest negatives about him - he puts more effort into beating his chest when he scores than he often does for long periods of a game.

 

The arguments , ‘he’s scored more than x or y’ doesn’t sway me

If he’s the best we have , it says something far wider,  and we should be aiming far better than his consistency certainly not lauding him for being the ‘best of a underperforming attack’ (If the ‘ best of’ is what he is)
 

The easiest and one of the  biggest clues IMHo , as regards  him fitting into cohesive team play is a simple look at the best and effective football (By a country mile and some) that we’ve played in the last 4-5 years,

the weeks leading up to and including the 3 Manchester games

Then consider what happened on his return 

He’s not played a part in any consistent team pattern , shape or sustained cohesiveness since he’s been here

Hes no ‘dud’ , And we’ve had far worse ,  and has or had some real potential in some respects , but rarely brings what he is actually capable of to the table and way over hyped on here

I was part of / privy to a direct conversation with LJ , about 10 months or so after Famara arrived

Asked where Famara fitted into his busy bee ethos that he had just spoken about , Lee blustered didn’t have an answer other than ‘they’d get him there’

It was pointed out to Lee that Famara rarely got across his marker in the box or attacked certainly the near , or far post,  - Lee said they were aware of that an working with Famara on this

Now whatever I think of LJ as a ‘Head Coach’ , again he’s no dud and undoubtedly got coaching assets and more than enough ability and knowledge to work with a player on something so simple in coaching terms.

So that was , approx 2 1/2 years ago

He hasn’t improved in either aspect *

Whos fault is that ?

(* You could add improvement ??  in - linking with others, workrate, hold up play , touch and many other areas)

 

with a different mindset I actually think he could have been a real hit at this level and got him to the Premier League as he craves 

 

. ‘Loves the Club’ mind

 

 

[JP Hampton]

On 11/02/2021 at 08:42, pongo88 said:

You beat me to it, I was about to say the same. Fam has always been inconsistent. I think some are just looking at him through rose coloured glasses and forget the periods when he has been poor, and has been dropped. It’s difficult to drop him now due to the injury situation 

I'd have to agree, bit like the emporers new clothes with Diedhiou. We remember sitting behind the goal when the players were still warming up once, Diehiou was the only player (and given he's a forward) who missd the goal every time he practised shooting, he was often so woefully far off the goal it was a bit embarrasing! We all see players differently, but from our perspective Diedhiou has always played better when what's happening around him suits him to. When other players have come in like Afobe and Wells he works hard, but when his position's secured he's pretty lazy. He doesn't have much pace, we often say "where was Diedhiou" and he is a far less intuitive player than Wells or Martin. I don't think it's a coincidence that when the possibility of being signed by a different club was possible, he worked his socks off and played like we'd never seen him before, now that possibility has passed he's back to his old self. I rarely feel confident in his performance or his effort. I don't find it at all surprising Wells wanted that goal for himself, he's looked increasingly down and frustrated being put on the wing clearly doesn't suit him and hasn't suited the team generally for months now.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, collier said:

I just think he has always played in spells,

totally agree.  My point is let’s hope he’s about to hit the straps again.  If he isn’t, can you imagine 4 months of going through the motions!  Our management should be monitoring very carefully, that’s all I’m saying....because as a fan I am.

if he was consistent every game then no disrespect to us but he would be playing at a higher level.

totally agree.

He has the attributes to be a top player and I just think that we City fan's think that we are better than we are.

disagree.  He has some good attributes, and he has some bad ones too.  As middle 8 Championship team over his time here, he’s achieved that level.  I can’t argue with that.  Is he top 8 or PL?  I think he’d need to develop a lot of those bad attributes, and at 28 I don’t see that happening.  But some players do mature later.

He top scored for 2 season's in boring attacking sides. I think the fact we payed 5+ million is now looked down upon because of the current market.

Yes, partly, but we missed the opportunity to capitalise on his value.  There is a school of thought that when the Turkish club came in during summer 2019, we should’ve sold, possibly £6-8m.  At that point, if we fended off that approach, we should’ve sat down with Fam and said, let’s negotiate a new contract as a reward.  Because not doing so has weakened our position every month that subsequently passed.  As I said, not all Fam’s fault.  I’d happily sit here with Fam having 2.5 years left on a bigger contract, but a bit of power over his destiny.  We lost / diminished that post-summer 2019.  Personally I don’t think Fam would’ve signed a deal, and therefore we really should’ve used MA’s knowledge of the market to move him on.  MA hugely at fault here.

When we paid it, that was the going rate that we would not be paying in today's climate.

Agree.

Comments above....we are moving towards alignment.

[JP Hampton]

13 hours ago, collier said:

Huddersfield game he scored 2 goals in a game we win 2-1. I bet if you asked professional managers would they take a striker doing **** all for 90 minutes except score 2 goals they would take it. Are you saying that us having our back's to the walls all game was simply because a championship player made a mistake in a game where he scored the 2 winning goals?

Hypothetically speaking then, Would you have taken Fam running his ass off for 90 minutes creating clear cut chances for other's, defending like a centre half in a game we lose 1-0 or what he did in a 2-1 win??

 

Well that's all very well if he was scoring 2 goals every game but he isn't, no where near that, so actually whilst what you say may be true that you think most managers would accept 2 goals and a **** all performance for the rest of the 90 mins, but why does it need to be an either or scenario? Surely the two should together, a committment to playing with effort over 90mins and getting goals. We don't know what he actually might achieve if he did run his ass off for 90mins he might end up assisting and scoring more than 2 goals. So it's a flawed argument.

 

 

 

 

[WECANDO]

7 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I know some of you will say, here we go again, another stick to beat the club with.

But for me Famara is another **** up by them.

I understand you can’t make a player sign a contract, but you can see it coming, and plan for it.

The ‘going public’ by Ashton on Sky was always a risky move, and a stupid comment to make - a gamble that didn’t pay off.
 

Why? Because no one came in to spend millions on him (who would when he’s free in a few months) and now we’re left with a potentially demotivated player, getting what value from him? Well not much right now...

Would that matter normally? Well no, if we could drop him! But he’s leading the bloody line.

Apparently here we are, in a good position in the league, a few points off and chasing the playoffs......

But we don’t have another option to lead the line other than a player we publicly outed...because they didn’t plan, get cover and the injuries debacle at the club has compounded it. 

"Leading the line"? Hes doing f..... all at the moment. Same with Wells. Drop em both and put Semenyo up top with 5 in midfield and get 2 quick uns down the flanks.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 11/02/2021 at 16:21, Cowshed said:

Yes the performance you highlighted is an outlier. 

You are outlining a picture of a game this player is not suited to out of possession. The players skills do not fit your picture in possession.

Mr Holden's future front foot football? 

Yep, very true. Diedhiou seems not to be built for the pressing game- maybe in limited circs see his goals vs Huddersfield which varied ie weren't just headers from corners, think he put a bit of stamina/pace in. Acceleration maybe a better word.