SL, you wondered why people are questioning with MA....

[steveybadger]

20 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

That is another way to look at it - yes MA did finally start us getting good fees for players - but let's be honest, he's not the only CEO doing that in this league - top 20 championship sells:

• 1	Nathan Aké Centre-Back	25	20/21		Man City  Premier League	£40.77m
  2	Moussa Sissoko Central Midfield	27	16/17		Spurs  Premier League	£31.50m
  3	Ollie Watkins Centre-Forward	24	20/21		Aston Villa  Premier League	£27.72m
  4	Jordan Pickford Goalkeeper	23	17/18		Everton  Premier League	£25.65m
  5	Ben Godfrey Centre-Back	22	20/21		Everton  Premier League	£24.75m
  6	Georginio Wijnaldum Central Midfield	25	16/17		Liverpool  Premier League	£24.75m
  7	Ryan Sessegnon Left-Back	19	19/20		Spurs  Premier League	£24.30m
  8	James Maddison Attacking Midfield	21	18/19		Leicester  Premier League	£22.50m
  9	Darren Bent Centre-Forward	23	07/08		Spurs  Premier League	£22.28m
  10	Saïd Benrahma Left Winger	25	20/21		West Ham  Premier League	£20.79m
  11	Jude Bellingham Central Midfield	17	20/21		Bor. Dortmund  Bundesliga	£20.70m
  12	Callum Wilson Centre-Forward	28	20/21		Newcastle  Premier League	£20.03m
  13	Neal Maupay Centre-Forward	22	19/20		Brighton  Premier League	£20.00m
  14	Adam Webster Centre-Back	24	19/20		Brighton  Premier League	£20.00m
  15	Abdoulaye Doucouré Central Midfield	27	20/21		Everton  Premier League	£19.89m
  16	Jarrod Bowen Right Winger	23	19/20		West Ham  Premier League	£19.17m
  17	Aaron Ramsdale Goalkeeper	22	20/21		Sheff Utd  Premier League	£18.45m
  18	Adama Traoré Right Winger	22	18/19		Wolves  Premier League	£18.00m
  19	Oliver McBurnie Centre-Forward	23	19/20		Sheff Utd  Premier League	£17.19m
  20	Salomón Rondón Centre-Forward	29	19/20		DL Pro  Super League	£16.44m

 

Not sure that’s helping your point much - a number of these players had already proved themselves in the Prem but then been relegated with their team?

[Lrrr]

19 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I don't get   it?...........so for example Webster sold for 20 mill, so Ashton receives credit for that?   A used car salesman with a good line of patter could have negotiated a   20 mill deal for Webster, it wasn't exactly a hard or difficult sale ?  It was LJ who spotted  him I believe, with the assistance of scouting reports, I really think Ashton is getting far too much credit for very little input?

Negotiating ability would come into it, apparently we turned down several bids across multiple teams that summer, how many other people in his role would have snatched at £15m for a player signed for a quarter of it 12 months ago? Reality is he assessed the situation and negotiated well to hold out for what we received recognising we probably wouldn't get much higher if we held out longer/how close the end of window was. We got the same fee (roughly) Mawson was sold to Fulham for with years of PL experience.

[Alessandro]

18 minutes ago, grifty said:

No, no I don't. I'm saying you put NO importance on selling them, only talent ID.

SLs pillar includes selling players for a profit, but again, you leave that out to form your argument. The basis behind your idea of what does Ashton bring is a just one, but you need to look at EVERYTHING that MA does, buying, selling talent ID, etc.

If you look back at this thread I have acknowledged and discussed exactly those points.

[steveybadger]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

 

Well one of the ways you can measure vfm is a comparison with other clubs. I think you make some legitimate points and of course we should always be looking to see if we can do things better (sorry sounding like SL now), but your analysis looks a bit selective to me. Respectfully.

[steviestevieneville]

45 minutes ago, grifty said:

I agree with your edit post. I believe we need a thorough restructure, MA, DH out, etc however if it's going to be discussed, it should be done fairly rather than the witch-hunt that is currently going on.

Think it’s frustration more than a witch hunt . The reason being that there’s so much right at the club. It’s the one area though , apart from under Kieth Burt we’ve never really got it right . SL also said last night . “It’s great with hindsight “ meaning Holden. He had his hindsight moments by appointing tinnion & millen . He’s still making the same mistakes. If it was Ashton who come to him advising Holden then alarm bells would of been ringing big time if I was SL. 

[Alessandro]

Just now, steveybadger said:

Well one of the ways you can measure vfm is a comparison with other clubs. I think you make some legitimate points and of course we should always be looking to see if we can do things better (sorry sounding like SL now), but your analysis looks a bit selective to me. Respectfully.

No problem at all! As I say, not meant to be selective in any other way than to focus on the on-going talent ID and player development of the club under MA, hence focussing on his transfers.

[grifty]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

Think it’s frustration more than a witch hunt . The reason being that there’s so much right at the club. It’s the one area though , apart from under Kieth Burt we’ve never really got it right . SL also said last night . “It’s great with hindsight “ meaning Holden. He had his hindsight moments by appointing tinnion & millen . He’s still making the same mistakes. If it was Ashton who come to him advising Holden then alarm bells would of been ringing big time if I was SL. 

Yep, I agree. I don't necessarily agree with the "yes man" viewpoint. LJ was a young manager doing little more than 'OK' at Oldham and Barnsley, but was apparently well regarded as a good coach, so I can understand why we went for him. The problem was, we kept him for a year and a half too long OR didn't get in a |DOF or experienced number 2 to help. I don't see LJs time as a failure (or a particular success) but more positives than negatives.

It could be that Holden is a stop gap for a year while COVID makes everything so strange, other teams are worse off than us meaning next season could be the year to go for it, but for obvious reasons, we can't say that in public.

Ashton speaks a lot of buzzwords and wears fancy suits and shaves his beard which people don't seem to like, but the agents and club officials he speaks to will love that and I'm sure it helps with what has been relatively successful in selling players for value. He may get too involved with 1st team affairs, no-one apart from those at the club truly know. I just think some balance needs to be made which threads like this I don't feel have.

[steveybadger]

44 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Some slightly disengeuous comments on this thread. 

Whatever else he might be, he has demonstrated his ability as a negotiator. Who would honestly have expected us to get the fees we did for Kodjia. Flint, Webster and especially Kelly, notwithstanding whether he brought them here, or if they were Academy players?

I've said before that I have no problem with the club's strategy of selling players of necessity because of the pressures of ffp. 

However, where I have an issue is that until 18 months to 2 years ago we were following that strategy, but still staying pretty competitive at the right end of the table even if we kept falling just short

In the meantime, performances and, increasingly, results have deteriorated, until we reach where we are now, i.e looking like we will be competing at the wrong end of the table. 

My conclusion is that some of this is due to the players that have been bought into the club. If this was at the head coaches request, then the head coach (previously LJ and now DH) carry the can. However I think most suspect that MA's hand is firmly on such decisions. 

While selling better players must have some impact on the team, surely it cannot be to the detrimental extent we have seen, especially in the last 12 months. 

If MA was heavily involved in the appointment of DH, then together with his involvement in players brought in that have proved to be expensive flops, then for me the credit he earned from player profit has been wiped out. 

Perhaps SL increasingly sees things the same? 

I think the degree to which MA provides a list of players for the Manager to say yes or no to is really the issue in a nutshell. The club has consistently said the manager has the final say, but if the list is poor and/ or the manager doesn’t like anybody on it, are they going to turn round and say no thanks or accept somebody and get on with it? The key to success for this system ( if that’s what it is) is 

1. that the manager and recruitment team have to be broadly in line in terms of strategy (e.g. young players with resale value) and that might explain why LJ / DH have been appointed (not that they only want players with resale value, but they were/ are prepared to work within that structure)

2. the recruitment list put together is good to start with. There may be questions to ask here, possibly.

But personally I don’ t have a problem with the system itself. It works (and is pretty standard practice) in Europe, for example.
 

[Alessandro]

19 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Negotiating ability would come into it, apparently we turned down several bids across multiple teams that summer, how many other people in his role would have snatched at £15m for a player signed for a quarter of it 12 months ago? Reality is he assessed the situation and negotiated well to hold out for what we received recognising we probably wouldn't get much higher if we held out longer/how close the end of window was. We got the same fee (roughly) Mawson was sold to Fulham for with years of PL experience.

Absolutely fair point - no reason at all to say MA can't still do the finance/negotiation side of deals going forwards. 

But Brentford for comparison, they have Jon Varney as CEO (effectively MA), in addition to two sporting directors (head of football style) and a head of recruitment. Here MA seems to do it all.

[Simon bristol]

To be fair, if you are looking at successful transfers over the last five years or so, i think dave fevs made a list up a few months ago, it makes for pretty grim reading! Some of the loans and signings like engvall were shocking.

this run of big fees coming in and being spent were all kicked off with the kodjia sale. Without that the club wouldnt have been able to bring in the first batch of young players. That helped bring on the homegrown kids, who we managed to sell for big money too. Problem is now theres been so many poor signings that theres no one left to sell, and covid makes that even worse. At one point we were able to bring in the likes of elliasson, Magnússon, djuric, watkins, odowda, and a number of others at around the 1-3 million mark, but now we are broke, and the thought of all the money wasted is galling. I cant remember them all but at one point a few years ago, we had about 10 ball playing midfielders having just signed palmer and szmodics, but they are either all gone, or have very low if any transfer values now, regardless of covid.

we all have a thought on how much a signing is down to ashton but the club has only ever said that its the head coach who makes the final decision. The szmodics signing followed by palmer straight after is the perfect example Of signing players without working out what to do with them, SL was okaying paying for them, ashton was negotiating them. And lj was giving the final decision on if he wanted them, so somewhere between the 3 of them you have the reason why the squad was stripped of value and unbalanced.

[steveybadger]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Genuine question. Are people still saying Ashton signs the players for the head coach to work with? Meaning not just negotiating the deals, saying what can be done with the available budget etc. But also chooses which players we sign?

I’m sure there have been some posters on here who have claimed that what you’re describing is what happens,   and have made those claims based on some sort of insider knowledge. I have no view on that but it directly contradicts what the club says.

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

ire-building.

What manager of any note will want to work under a regime where he has little say on who he has to work with?  Any manager will want to set the general direction of the first-team football set-up.

I wonder if the insistence from SL that no offers are made to current players or options taken out is not just financial sanity but also the first stage of wing-clipping Mark Ashton. None of his players getting new contracts.  SL mentioned on the radio the importance of Ashton in maintaining our interests within football.  I've always felt Ashton likes the idea of being a bit of a Rick Parry/ Scudamore type and his current FL role is definitely a step in that direction and a step away from running the football at City.  Maybe SL is accepting in his own way that things must change and through gritted teeth has accepted he needs to trust a football man and let them make decisions like he did with Pat Lam.

Even control freaks have self-knowledge.

[Alessandro]

13 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Genuine question. Are people still saying Ashton signs the players for the head coach to work with? Meaning not just negotiating the deals, saying what can be done with the available budget etc. But also chooses which players we sign?

Well, genuine wuestion back, how do you think it's done then? 

Do you think the head-coach gives the list to MA? Can't they have time for all that research and scouting as well as coaching?

Even the other day it came out that MA offered 3 LB options to the board, not DH offering 3 LB suggestions. 

My opinion is MA heads the team that finds the players and is heavily involved in doing deals through his agent contacts.

Do we have a head of recruitment? Do we have a head scout? If not, who is finding the players?

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

I think its unfair to exclude sales of academy players and those at the club but say that all purchases count against him where their value is still in the squad at the moment. Perhaps a fairer way would be to estimate the value of the players in the squad vs the value they were signed for as well (factoring covid value drop).

No that’s just cruel.

 

[red panda]

Even by OTIB standards this thread is filled with so much wild speculation about MA's precise role was in various events (buying players, selling players, appointing managers etc), then criticising him for something he may or may not have done.

The only fact is that WE DON'T KNOW.  But, hey, let's not let that stop us having a go at our favourite scapegoat. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

That has been done by @Davefevs before and is very subjective. You can have a go of course, but i'd ask you, where are the next (£10/15/20m) big fees coming from in our squad? You're looking at potentially a handful outside of any academy products. Bentley, Dasilva and perhaps Williams. Not good. 

I'll say again, i'm talking about talent ID and how we re-invest in our squad, as SL said on the radio.

At the moment, it looks like MA has traded on players he didn't sign.

All this might be fine of course if the performances on the pitch were different and the position in the table wasn't what it was, of course....

And....when someone does their “math” don’t forget to factor in the initial fee and sell-on profit, e.g. very, very likely Brentford have a percentage sell-on.

1 hour ago, grifty said:

But he was involved (I presume) in the selling most/all of the players sold since he's been here, so to take them out because he wasn't involved in signing them (surely he wouldn't be involved in signing any academy players so they should never be involved on this basis? If we sold Towler and MA managed to organise a £20m transfer, he didn't buy him so it shouldn't count).

I'm afraid it's not as simple as it's just about the players he bought and sold.

It is as simple as Alessandro puts it - his point is, this is a critique of the performance of MA’s stewardship of Recruitment inbound.  This is an area most of see a weakness.  It is not a critique of his ability to sell any player.

Therefore he is judging his talent ID / recruitment on those players brought into the club my MA.

Some of those players have since been sold....therefore use the fee as a tangible.

Some of those players are still here....you could therefore put a guesstimate in their value.

That is what I did when I compiled the list of 68 players recruited post-Burt’s sacking.

This is one part of his job role, there are others too, we recognise this, and will factor in if you want overall appraisal of MA’s performance.

If you want to evaluate his selling of Academy players, do it on just that....but if you take a financial figure to decide whether he’s successful, then question whether you’re using the right measure....because they are all net profit (in reality).  If you take the Academy  players as being something to measure MA, then take every single one, including all the ones who don’t make it.

[Alessandro]

18 minutes ago, red panda said:

Even by OTIB standards this thread is filled with so much wild speculation about MA's precise role was in various events (buying players, selling players, appointing managers etc), then criticising him for something he may or may not have done.

The only fact is that WE DON'T KNOW.  But, hey, let's not let that stop us having a go at our favourite scapegoat. 

MA is in charge of all day to day football operations so the buck stops with him, that's a fact, not wild speculation....From the Bristol City website:

No head of recruitment. No DOF. No head scout.

So if it's not MA making these decisions, who is it?

Owner: Stephen Lansdown CBE
Chairman: Jon Lansdown
Chief Executive Officer: Mark Ashton
Executive Director: Doug Harman
Club President: Marina Dolman MBE DL DStJ JP
Vice President: Betty Rosemary Bennett.
Honorary Vice President: Marcus Trescothick MBE
Head of Operations / Club Secretary: Luke Werhun
PA to the Chief Executive Officer: Isobel Mitchell

Head Coach: Dean Holden
Assistant Head Coach: Keith Downing
Assistant Head Coach: Paul Simpson
Goalkeeping Coach: Pat Mountain
Head of Performance: Andy Rolls
Head Physiotherapist: Andrew Proctor
First Team Physiotherapist: Gill Holt
Head of Fitness & Conditioning: Patrick Orme
Kit Manager: Scott Murray
Head of Communications: Dave Barton
Supporter Liaison Officer: Jerry Tocknell
Disabled Supporter Liaison Officer: Gareth Torpy
Club Chaplain: Derek Cleave

Bristol City Academy 

Academy Manager: Gary Probert
Under-23 Coach: Alex Ball
Under-18 Manager: Trevor Challis
Loans Manager; Club Ambassador: Brian Tinnion
Head of Recruitment: Damian Butt
Head of Goalkeeping: Ali Hines
Head of Sports Science: Stephen Taylor
Lead Strength & Conditioning Coach: Hamish Munro
Head of Medical: David Walker
Head of Education: Thomas Harvey
Head of Welfare: Peter Coleman
Operations Manager: Emma Jolliffe

Bristol Sport

Chairman: Jon Lansdown
Group Head of Commercial: Caroline Herbert
Group Head of Communications: Lisa Knights
Group Chief Financial Officer: Gavin Marshall
Head of Data and CRM: Charlie Lincoln

Ashton Gate Stadium

Chairman: Martin Griffiths
Managing Director: Mark Kelly
Chief Media Officer: Lisa Knights
Stadium General Manager: Ross Wormald  
Head of Safety: David Storr
Head of Grounds: Dan Sparks

 

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Well, genuine wuestion back, how do you think it's done then? 

Do you think the head-coach gives the list to MA? Can't they have time for all that research and scouting as well as coaching?

Even the other day it came out that MA offered 3 LB options to the board, not DH offering 3 LB suggestions. 

My opinion is MA heads the team that finds the players and is heavily involved in doing deals through his agent contacts.

Do we have a head of recruitment? Do we have a head scout? If not, who is finding the players?

If I was sat here with Visio I’d sketch a process map!!

Essentially I believe that there are multiple input to the sausage machine.  Those inputs could come from DH who fancies a player, the coaches, DH specifying a player type he wants (Like LJ did with Knockaert),  Ashton, who’s become aware of a player through his “network” etc etc.

I’m pretty confident on the above.  Eliasson, Brunt, Brownhill, Engvall prove this to a large extent imho.  Different routes into the sausage machine.  Some pass through easily.  Some too easily.

What I’m less confident on is how much the Recruitment Analytics do on each input, how much physical scouting goes on, and whether anyone has more weight in terms of what comes out of the sausage machine and how many checks they went through.

I still come back, that without someone checking the inputs and outputs and the process in between, you will end up wasting millions.  That is what is happening.  That is what a DOF / HOR does.  I think the integrity of the Talent ID process is very questionable.  MA is accountable for that, he is not the only one involved in the outcomes we are seeing, but he carries the can. This impacts on the head-coach and the team, but they are also are heavily involved in that process.

 

Note: I do wonder if some players go anywhere near the sausage machine.

 

[Lrrr]

9 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

 

So if it's not MA making these decisions, who is it?

Honorary Vice President: Marcus Trescothick MBE

 

I can guess who Gloucestershire fans would want to blame.... 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

LJ has said in the past he will fancy a player, or the analysts will come to him with a player. I always thought he had the final say. As long as Lansdown agrees, as Lansdown has to agree to all signings made.

Ashton of course is a big part of it too.

Not sure if Day is still our head scout. We did have a pretty big scouting and analysis team under LJ I think.

Day was bombed ages ago

[Red-Robbo]

28 minutes ago, The Bard said:

I wonder if the insistence from SL that no offers are made to current players or options taken out is not just financial sanity but also the first stage of wing-clipping Mark Ashton. None of his players getting new contracts.  SL mentioned on the radio the importance of Ashton in maintaining our interests within football.  I've always felt Ashton likes the idea of being a bit of a Rick Parry/ Scudamore type and his current FL role is definitely a step in that direction and a step away from running the football at City.  Maybe SL is accepting in his own way that things must change and through gritted teeth has accepted he needs to trust a football man and let them make decisions like he did with Pat Lam.

Even control freaks have self-knowledge.

 

I've absolutely no doubt that Ashton sees his future in some full-time EFL/PL/FA role on an even more eye-watering salary than now. I may be wrong but I believe he has said as such in interviews. He's already the Championship rep on the EFL board.

Ironic really as his track record is Watford (where the fans hated him); Oxford (where opinion was divided, but they were pretty mediocre on the pitch during his time there); Wycombe (there 4 months before 'doing a Coppell' and claiming he didn't want to work in football anymore) and us (fans hate him).

Not really a CV that you'd be that proud about...

[grifty]

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And....when someone does their “math” don’t forget to factor in the initial fee and sell-on profit, e.g. very, very likely Brentford have a percentage sell-on.

It is as simple as Alessandro puts it - his point is, this is a critique of the performance of MA’s stewardship of Recruitment inbound.  This is an area most of see a weakness.  It is not a critique of his ability to sell any player.

Therefore he is judging his talent ID / recruitment on those players brought into the club my MA.

Some of those players have since been sold....therefore use the fee as a tangible.

Some of those players are still here....you could therefore put a guesstimate in their value.

That is what I did when I compiled the list of 68 players recruited post-Burt’s sacking.

This is one part of his job role, there are others too, we recognise this, and will factor in if you want overall appraisal of MA’s performance.

If you want to evaluate his selling of Academy players, do it on just that....but if you take a financial figure to decide whether he’s successful, then question whether you’re using the right measure....because they are all net profit (in reality).  If you take the Academy  players as being something to measure MA, then take every single one, including all the ones who don’t make it.

I understand his point, I just disagree with it and that figures/facts are missed out when trying to prove a point. It has been confirmed that Webster & Brownhill have future fees/% fees for us, but I assume it doesn't count because Ashton has arranged it and that doesnt go with the narrative.

[steveybadger]

12 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I've absolutely no doubt that Ashton sees his future in some full-time EFL/PL/FA role on an even more eye-watering salary than now. I may be wrong but I believe he has said as such in interviews. He's already the Championship rep on the EFL board.

Ironic really as his track record is Watford (where the fans hated him); Oxford (where opinion was divided, but they were pretty mediocre on the pitch during his time there); Wycombe (there 4 months before 'doing a Coppell' and claiming he didn't want to work in football anymore) and us (fans hate him).

Not really a CV that you'd be that proud about...

Some of our fans hate him, to be fair

14 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I can guess who Gloucestershire fans would want to blame.... 

Tres out!

[spudski]

The easy solution to stop speculation, would be for the club to be more transparent on its recruiting.

They've suggested in the past that they have lists of players for every position, and they keep a constant tag on them, as to progress and availability.

The problem we as fans see it, is who is defining the model/ type of football we are aiming to play...and who is choosing the players who define the rolls needed to play that chosen system?

Looking in as a fan...we don't seem to have a clear system of playing. Using an LJ terminology...we have many clubs for different situations. 

How I see it...we are buying a mixed bag of players. No structure. One minute it's players like Massengo...rough diamonds, that with development will be worth a lot more...to the other extreme of old crocked players way past their best. And this season...blooding Academy and previously loaned out players.

Like our football...it's all over the place. No structure. 

It actually gives me a headache trying to work out our philosophy now. It really is just a bit of everything. 

We've gone from being a club that was admired for our front foot attractive football, to a laughing stock...where pundits laugh at how poor we are.

We've accumulated so many different types of players, that when you look at the squad it makes my eyes bleed to as to who fits where and what system would work best.

And I think that's half the problem.

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Just read in Bristol Post last March that Adam Griffin has a key position in the recruitment team as senior scout.

He is LJ's second cousin.

'Griffin's experience includes being a regional scout at the Saints, a lead scout at Charlton Athletic before that, a recruitment officer at Crystal Palace and an academy scout at Fulham'

Only fair to state experience at the same time as mentioning his relationship with Johnson

 

4 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Tres out!

LBW or caught?

[LondonBristolian]

There's a degree to which I think SL is right when he says that Mark Ashton is a scapegoat but I also think he's being very disingenuous when he says so.

I think people on the board sometimes paint the idea that Ashton is some sort of Machiavellian figure, who has taken over the club and seized control over transfer policy, recruitment, managerial appointments etc. but the reality is that Mark Ashton's job is to put the board and owner's strategy into action. He'll advise and make recommendations on top of that, and have a strong amount of freedom to act as he sees fit, but ultimately he is accountable to the board and the board will set the parameters he works within, review his job performance and will ultimately make the final decisions around major aspects of the strategy. Given that, according to Gregor, the board voted the signing of a left back, I'd imagine they would have had the final say on managerial recruitment, and would have likely set the instructions for what type of manager we recruited. Obviously Ashton has a choice as to whether he accepts the parameters he works in but, at the end of the day, he has to do the job the board want him to do and I think the gets the blame for aspects of our strategy that he probably is not ultimately responsible for.

The disingenuous aspect is that Ashton is that he will know full well paid to be a scapegoat and be the public figure who takes responsibility for the strategies that the board have set. I'm not defending Ashton - he takes the money and does the job, I've seen nothing to suggest he disagrees with the parameters he is working over  and he can obviously walk if he feels he is constrained from doing a good job - but I do think a lot of the things that he takes the flak for are ultimately board instructions rather than him seizing control of the club and acting without the board's knowledge or authority. 

[headhunter]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Day was bombed ages ago

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mervyn-day-095155125/ this is his LinkedIn profile. He's been at Rangers full time since January last year. With us for 4 years but his track record since leaving coaching in 2006 shows a job change pretty much every two years. I suggest he interviews well but might fail to deliver?

[LondonBristolian]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

The easy solution to stop speculation, would be for the club to be more transparent on its recruiting.

They've suggested in the past that they have lists of players for every position, and they keep a constant tag on them, as to progress and availability.

The problem we as fans see it, is who is defining the model/ type of football we are aiming to play...and who is choosing the players who define the rolls needed to play that chosen system?

Looking in as a fan...we don't seem to have a clear system of playing. Using an LJ terminology...we have many clubs for different situations. 

How I see it...we are buying a mixed bag of players. No structure. One minute it's players like Massengo...rough diamonds, that with development will be worth a lot more...to the other extreme of old crocked players way past their best. And this season...blooding Academy and previously loaned out players.

Like our football...it's all over the place. No structure. 

It actually gives me a headache trying to work out our philosophy now. It really is just a bit of everything. 

We've gone from being a club that was admired for our front foot attractive football, to a laughing stock...where pundits laugh at how poor we are.

We've accumulated so many different types of players, that when you look at the squad it makes my eyes bleed to as to who fits where and what system would work best.

And I think that's half the problem.

I agree with this. I honestly think, if you asked 100 fans who our best XI were, what our best formation was and what style of football suited us best, you'd get 100 different answers and none of them would be perfect. I think the problem is particularly acute in midfield. With everyone fit, I think we've got ten good central midfielders but I'm not convinced any two or three of them make for a midfield combination that is greater than the sum of its parts. 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Just read in Bristol Post last March that Adam Griffin has a key position in the recruitment team as senior scout.

He is LJ's second cousin.

Yep, and Richard Lee (ex-Watford GK) used in a consultation capacity.

20 minutes ago, grifty said:

I understand his point, I just disagree with it and that figures/facts are missed out when trying to prove a point. It has been confirmed that Webster & Brownhill have future fees/% fees for us, but I assume it doesn't count because Ashton has arranged it and that doesnt go with the narrative.

If you want to include aspirational fees for Webster and Brownhill, then only right you include Bentley’s to Brentford, Massengo’s to Monaco, Wells to Burnley, Diedhiou to Angers (ok, that ship has sailed ) etc etc.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with this. I honestly think, if you asked 100 fans who our best XI were, what our best formation was and what style of football suited us best, you'd get 100 different answers and none of them would be perfect. I think the problem is particularly acute in midfield. With everyone fit, I think we've got ten good central midfielders but I'm not convinced any two or three of them make for a midfield combination that is greater than the sum of its parts. 

And I think we can put that down to poor recruitment....and therefore blame in whatever portion lies with the people operating in that space and the management of them.