One More Yes Man and You've Lost the Fan Base...

[RedRock]

3 minutes ago, RumRed said:

I can understand what the club were trying to achieve, but recruitment and results show it hasn’t worked. We have a wide selection of players but no team. The experiment failed. 

We have a wide selection of extremely average, very inconsistent players that Ashton has recommended and purchased. Only Bentley and, until recently, Kalas were remotely near consistent. 

CoD is typical of Ashton sort of  player.

Near impossible to build a team when the players you’re given turn up only for one match in any month/season.
 

So Holden has sympathy from me ..but granted he hasn’t helped himself through team selections and tactics.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Jacky Boy said:

Not drastic at all, majority of the squad having bloody awful.

How many players can we say have actually performed to a high standard.

I don't think any manager could sort this lot out, very average bunch championship players at best.

Not fully sure I agree.

You have Internationals, players from Chelsea academy which is one of the best around, high end experienced Championship players and then some passable ones around them- who just stagnate, regress and in varied cases turn to shit.

Not including Palmer in that as I don't think he's up to much.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

2 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Thats not true - until we sold Bobby we had an entertaining pressing style - we just never recruited or coached it again. Weimann was not the right replacement and has very different attributes (even if he does run a lot) 

Yes, that was good for a while but even then, our game was based on passing to the closest man with not much more thinking ahead. It's just that like his father, LJ was able to motivate players to play over and above their ability but as we have seen with the likes of even Liverpool, you can only keep that up for so long before it falters...

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not fully sure I agree.

You have Internationals, players from Chelsea academy which is one of the best around, high end experienced Championship players and then some passable ones around them- who just turn to shit, stagnate and regress.

Not including Palmer in that as I don't think he's up to much.

Exactly right, hence the need for a top manager to give the necessary guidance and direction. Look what Leeds have achieved with Bielsa, he would get the same out of the players here (or find others who could)

[RumRed]

5 minutes ago, RedRock said:

We have a wide selection of extremely average, very inconsistent players that Ashton has recommended and purchased. Only Bentley and, until recently, Kalas were remotely near consistent. 

CoD is typical of Ashton sort of  player.

Near impossible to build a team when the players you’re given turn up only for one match in any month/season.
 

So Holden has sympathy from me ..but granted he hasn’t helped himself through team selections and tactics.

Bentley has been my biggest highlight. He must be seriously cheesed off by now.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

Exactly right, hence the need for a top manager to give the necessary guidance and direction. Look what Leeds have achieved with Bielsa, he would get the same out of the players here (or find others who could)

Cook- or higher? Hope it's not another Internal Appointment.

[BTRFTG]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's a bit drastic, we've had worse teams. Or worse individuals anyway.

When, oh when, will you realise it's apologists like you that ARE the reason we have a major problem. We've never, ever, ever had a squad (other than those turning out to keep us going or earning coppers,) that have been this untalented. But they weren't overpaid, feckless and utterly, utterly hated. They cared, they tried, they gave their all. They just weren't very good and for that I could never blame them.

If I saw Paul Williams in the street I'd shake his hand and thank him. If I saw Wells, or Watkins, or Paterson, or Mariappa, or Semenyo, or.... I dread to think what I'd do.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

When, oh when, will you realise it's apologists like you that ARE the reason we have a major problem. We've never, ever, ever had a squad (other than those turning out to keep us going or earning coppers,) that have been this untalented. But they weren't overpaid, feckless and utterly, utterly hated. They cared, they tried, they gave their all. They just weren't very good and for that I could never blame them.

If I saw Paul Williams in the street I'd shake his hand and thank him. If I saw Wells, or Watkins, or Paterson, or Mariappa, or Semenyo, or.... I dread to think what I'd do.

 

I don't understand where you're coming from exactly- it might be the worst or one of the worst pound for pound but I'd query whether it's the worst, least capable verbatim.

Some earlier season performances and then other performances a bit later showed they were capable of better- the only reasonable performance I'd say post the FA Cup win at Millwall was at Brentford but beyond that...showed a good start at home to Huddersfield too and then dropped off a cliff.

Semenyo is still developing isn't he- harsh to include him in your list IMO.

[Red_Alligator]

41 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

For the last ******* time, the buck does not stop at Mark Ashton. It stops at the man that appointed both Mark Ashton and Dean Holden - Steve Lansdown. 

Well said Mrs Ashton.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

When, oh when, will you realise it's apologists like you that ARE the reason we have a major problem. We've never, ever, ever had a squad (other than those turning out to keep us going or earning coppers,) that have been this untalented. But they weren't overpaid, feckless and utterly, utterly hated. They cared, they tried, they gave their all. They just weren't very good and for that I could never blame them.

If I saw Paul Williams in the street I'd shake his hand and thank him. If I saw Wells, or Watkins, or Paterson, or Mariappa, or Semenyo, or.... I dread to think what I'd do.

 

Harsh on Semenyo, I think he will become a very good player, provided he persevres and wants it enough. Also Patto

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, Red_Alligator said:

Well said Mrs Ashton.

It’s true though , isn’t it

 

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

It’s true though , isn’t it

 

Well, that's kind of what this thread is all about...

[AppyDAZE]

One more Yes man? Maybe we could tempt not Eddie, but Steve Howe.

Tactically useless, but a smashing bloke anyway.

[luke_bristol]

50 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That's exactly what the problem is. To do that he will need to cut Ashton's salary probably by at least 40% to fund a DOF and Steve knows if he does that Ashton walks.

Ashton would be daft to walk though. Like so many of our players in the past, and definitely our managers, the Championship with Bristol City is as high as he’ll ever get again. The next move is downward, never to return.

[RedNachos]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

For the last ******* time, the buck does not stop at Mark Ashton. It stops at the man that appointed both Mark Ashton and Dean Holden - Steve Lansdown. 

I made a lansdown out post and was laughed out. Guess a few losses and everyone has a change of heart. Having money to his name doesn't mean he's a good owner. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

34 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Ashton would be daft to walk though. Like so many of our players in the past, and definitely our managers, the Championship with Bristol City is as high as he’ll ever get again. The next move is downward, never to return.

Higher up into the EFL maybe?

[Numero Uno]

6 hours ago, Red_Alligator said:

Well said Mrs Ashton.

So you think Mark Ashton has our under performing  billionaire owner on strings then? I would suggest that our billionaire owner has 75% of the fan base on strings.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

For the last ******* time, the buck does not stop at Mark Ashton. It stops at the man that appointed both Mark Ashton and Dean Holden - Steve Lansdown. 

absolutely, SL`s plan has to change, sadly it wont nor will we.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Red_Alligator said:

Well said Mrs Ashton.

Mr Ashton will as we type be trying to find someone we have never heard of and will do what he says. He is SL`s puppet and voice and will continue lining his nest, with JL on the beach what other choice do we have. The future is bleak until the plan is binned.

[Numero Uno]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The only problem I have with that is, do you mean Head Coach/Manager picks players basically?

We recruit Manager X with a specific style of play, he recruits players and lots of them to that style- it goes to shit, but we have a set of players on decent contracts who are only suitable to one way- limits the options somewhat!

How can you possibly have a head coach at a football club who doesn't get to choose incoming players? How can you possibly leave that to someone completely and utterly UNQUALIFIED like Mark Ashton or Steve Lansdown. People are saying we want this Manager, we want that Manager, well I can promise them now if the idea from the circus upstairs is that someone above them will tell them what players they are having (of course we always give them a chance to object and then ignore the cheeky sod and buy the player anyway) then we will get the Manager/Head Coach we utterly deserve. If we want a succession of Dean Holden's in charge over the next 3-4 years then that is exactly the way to go!!

Make sure when you recruit Manager X that his style of play fits in with a club philosophy. If you are appointing managers with wildly varying styles of play each time then that really does indicate a level of cluelessness that only the hierarchy at both Steve Lansdown FC and the Horfield Squatting Few FC out of 92 professional clubs seem able to consistently "achieve".

[robin_unreliant]

8 hours ago, spudski said:

I'd keep MA for negotiating deals, contracts, football league etc...but nothing more. And if that costs £500k do it...it's what's needed.

Leave the football to the coach. Let him be accountable only. For the football and identification/scouting.

That way there is no grey areas.

A manager will want players that improve the first 11 straight away because he is judged on the team's results and position in the table. 

What SL wanted was to buy in young players with potential who could turn a profit in future. Logically, you can see why you would have a different person in charge of that. Someone judged on the longer term profit made on players. 

So there is logic in the model. Unfortunately Ashton's record on buying young players to develop is crap. So if SL wants to stick to this model he needs someone else to pick the players. 

The way we have u-turned and are signing journeyman yet again leaves me confused about what Lansdown really does want to do. Baffling. 

[spudski]

1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

A manager will want players that improve the first 11 straight away because he is judged on the team's results and position in the table. 

What SL wanted was to buy in young players with potential who could turn a profit in future. Logically, you can see why you would have a different person in charge of that. Someone judged on the longer term profit made on players. 

So there is logic in the model. Unfortunately Ashton's record on buying young players to develop is crap. So if SL wants to stick to this model he needs someone else to pick the players. 

The way we have u-turned and are signing journeyman yet again leaves me confused about what Lansdown really does want to do. Baffling. 

The model we have won't bring promotion...stability at best with a decent coach.

The model needs to change if he wants promotion.

The problem is...they always speak of the play offs or top 6. What's the point in that? You have to aim top 2. A seasons hard work for a couple games lottery at the end is not something to aim for.

It's a bit like working hard all week and buying a lottery ticket on a Friday and hoping it's going to change your life...fruitless.

[BTRFTG]

12 hours ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

Harsh on Semenyo, I think he will become a very good player, provided he persevres and wants it enough. Also Patto

What exactly leads you believe a striker who's notched 3 L2 goals in 70 league appearances will become a 'very good player'?

It's coming up for the 3rd anniversary of his league debut, so how many further seasons do we give him? Clearly not a goal machine or provider, he's recently been dropping further and further back, so what is he? As a kid they didn't think him a midfielder or defender, so why would he become that now?

IMHO he can 'persevere' and 'want it' all he likes, though as he lacks the talent to perform at Championship standard, like water, he'll eventually find his own level. Problem for City as long as he's on the books and being picked he'll be taking the club with him.

Ditto the master of hiding in plain sight.

[Dullmoan Tone]

14 hours ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

Yes, that was good for a while but even then, our game was based on passing to the closest man

Think Pep might say this is not a bad thing (as long as the team keep moving)!

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

What is a yes man? Yes I will take the job? Yes I will do my best to win games? Yes I will get us, up the league, guaranteed? Yes I will play attractive gung-ho football? 

What is not a yes man. Someone who will regularly tell SL and MA to go forth and multiply (because that type of honesty will keep them in a job)? Someone who promises to always consult one of the conspiracy theorists on OTIB before picking a team and formation - as someone who may play football manager always knows better than those who do it for real). 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

How can you possibly have a head coach at a football club who doesn't get to choose incoming players? How can you possibly leave that to someone completely and utterly UNQUALIFIED like Mark Ashton or Steve Lansdown. People are saying we want this Manager, we want that Manager, well I can promise them now if the idea from the circus upstairs is that someone above them will tell them what players they are having (of course we always give them a chance to object and then ignore the cheeky sod and buy the player anyway) then we will get the Manager/Head Coach we utterly deserve. If we want a succession of Dean Holden's in charge over the next 3-4 years then that is exactly the way to go!!

Make sure when you recruit Manager X that his style of play fits in with a club philosophy. If you are appointing managers with wildly varying styles of play each time then that really does indicate a level of cluelessness that only the hierarchy at both Steve Lansdown FC and the Horfield Squatting Few FC out of 92 professional clubs seem able to consistently "achieve".

Maybe my plan was a poor one, largely agree with your post in hindsight.

Just trying to future proof, as if for example we picked a manager who likes a long ball game, we recruit a lot of 6 foot plus fairly big lumps and it doesn't work we're hemmed in a bit.

I do think that autonomy of Head Coaches/Managers is on the decline though, Transfer wise. Talking about football more widely- how many clubs have eg Sporting Directors now? A lot more than in the past!

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe my plan was a poor one, largely agree with your post in hindsight.

Just trying to future proof, as if for example we picked a manager who likes a long ball game, we recruit a lot of 6 foot plus fairly big lumps and it doesn't work we're hemmed in a bit.

I do think that autonomy of Head Coaches/Managers is on the decline though, Transfer wise. Talking about football more widely- how many clubs have eg Sporting Directors now? A lot more than in the past!

I know what you are saying. Isn’t this why we need a DOF alongside Ashton? So that there is a football strategy to go alongside the commercial one.

[AshtonGreat]

18 hours ago, RumRed said:

Reckon he’s losing people already. I’ll be honest I only came back to the forum tonight to see people’s feelings. Haven’t really watched the matches and just looked up the results. Sad really.

Same. I watched the Champions League last night

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I know what you are saying. Isn’t this why we need a DOF alongside Ashton? So that there is a football strategy to go alongside the commercial one.

Certainly wouldn't disagree. 

Ashton should be redeployed to Commercial side as you say, not least seeking the best terms for us in the market and going into bat for us at the EFL.

I don't think our squad is terrible, if he has a role on the transfer side we were linked with Cunningham, Pedersen and Manning in January none of which are bad signings for LB. Certainly as a loan. I'll be honest Manning I know least about.

However the recruitment needs to now be very good indeed this upcoming Summer. Middling, or reasonable won't really cut it IMO and that's where a DoF and new head coach/manager come in.

[E.G.Red]

18 hours ago, RedRock said:

We have a wide selection of extremely average, very inconsistent players that Ashton has recommended and purchased. Only Bentley and, until recently, Kalas were remotely near consistent. 

CoD is typical of Ashton sort of  player.

Near impossible to build a team when the players you’re given turn up only for one match in any month/season.
 

So Holden has sympathy from me ..but granted he hasn’t helped himself through team selections and tactics.

Amazing even when he is injured COD still gets the blame for all our woes.