Bristol R*vers dustbin thread

[Swede]

34 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

They have less employes on the books now than 2-3 years ago. #gaslogic

What owner stands on the terraces with other fans?

I think you'll find that's an owner of either a non league or at best a minor third or fourth tier football league club.

Grounds tend to be mostly all seater the higher up the football league ladder you go.

[PHILINFRANCE]

This is a cracker on Gaschat, just a few minutes ago.

So, I take it you are happy we are now destined to be forever in the shadows of the city then ? That's what a redeveloped mem means. Make no bones about it. We will now always be the poor relation and the talk of we're coming for you are completely gone.

harleygas Reserve Team     Posts: 299  Member is Online   Posting Level Next Level in 201 posts 54 minutes ago Quote   Post by harleygas on 54 minutes ago And that's bath city :laugh:

[Eddie Hitler]

Harleygas is that rare example of a gashead with a sense of humour.

The rest of them will burn him as a witch.

[Gashead2017]

2 hours ago, Rich said:

I was referring to how they acquired the ground, Very dodgy!

Arthur Holmes was the chairman of the rugby club, he'd been in that position for a little while, evidently, he was also a supporter of BRFC.

He'd come in to give stability after professionalism of the rugby union, with Bristol rugby losing lots of money each season. He lent them the money to build their Centenary stand, which without his money, they couldn't afford.

After a couple of seasons, he invited BRFC to join as tenants of the rugby club, to help out with finances but, they still kept losing  money. He needed his money back (£2M) and a plan was hatched to form the Memorial Stadium Company with a 50% holding between BRFC (Dunford) and the rugby club, (himself).  So Bristol rugby received £2m From BRFC (Dunford) in exchange for 50% of the Memorial stadium company and Arthur Holmes got his £2M back. The rugby club were still losing money. As part of the new company formation, it was agreed that if either party should go bankrupt, the other party could purchase the remaining 50% for a figure of £10k. The rugby club were still losing money.

Within six months of that agreement, Arthur Holmes (the Chairman) filed for bankruptcy of the rugby club and BRFC(Dunford) exercised the right to purchase the remaining 50% of the shares in the Memorial stadium company.

Arthur Holmes was not a well liked man to supporters of the rugby club but, he was made a life president of BRFC, for services to that club.

Make of it what you want.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the correct version appears to be :

"The rugby club were in serious financial difficulties so we agreed to a 50% share of the ground at at a cost of £2.3m. In 1998, Bristol's financial issues became worse and they wanted to sell to Amtrack, reputedly for £1m. That agreement fell through as Amtrack pulled out so we triggered a clause in the ground share agreement where we could buy the remaining 50% for £100,000."

Although I agree with the views we didn't learn from previous mistakes as I've no idea how we now owe £10m to a family of bankers from Jordanian who apart from the odd Rolex watch show no real signs of being wealthy. But at least the believers still think Wael will build us a new 22,000 seat stadium and a state of the art academy!! 
 

 

[1960maaan]

23 hours ago, B block said:

sipirate said:

Would we have submitted planning application for new training ground?

I may have skipped over this bit. Have they actually an application in, and does anyone know what they have 'planned' ??
Perhaps the Billionaire has sneaked in plans for a 27,001 all seater with me noticing.

[Bianconeri]

24 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Ok. That would change things. I stand corrected.

I'm not 100% sure to be fair. It was a while ago!

[Gashead2017]

10 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

This is a cracker on Gaschat, just a few minutes ago.

So, I take it you are happy we are now destined to be forever in the shadows of the city then ? That's what a redeveloped mem means. Make no bones about it. We will now always be the poor relation and the talk of we're coming for you are completely gone.

harleygas Reserve Team     Posts: 299  Member is Online   Posting Level Next Level in 201 posts 54 minutes ago Quote   Post by harleygas on 54 minutes ago And that's bath city

To be fair to Harleyhas this a fair post rather than a "cracker"? I sense a lot of genuine Gashead feel the same following the news the UWE was dead, the real danger is we become the Port Vale to your Stoke, I think most genuine Bristolian football fans would sooner a bit of rivalry than one totally dominant club like is now the case in the Potteries.

[B block]

17 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I may have skipped over this bit. Have they actually an application in, and does anyone know what they have 'planned' ??
Perhaps the Billionaire has sneaked in plans for a 27,001 all seater with me noticing.

I'm pretty sure no planning has been submitted 

wonder why ?

[PHILINFRANCE]

21 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Harleygas is that rare example of a gashead with a sense of humour.

The rest of them will burn him as a witch.

At the very least, he is sure to be banned.

 

[Malago]

56 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

This is the story as my father used to tell it, he also said that the sale was pushed through during WW2 when people were busy defending the country.

. During 1939 Bristol Rovers F.C negotiated a sale price to the Bristol Greyhound Company, albeit by the chairman, who carried out the deal without the knowledge of his fellow directors. Eastville changed hands for £12,000 and the first General Manager was Lieutenant-Colonel Forsdike who was to become secretary of the National Greyhound Racing Club.^[4]

[Gashead2017]

Just now, B block said:

I'm pretty sure no planning has been submitted 

wonder why ?

None submitted according to S Glos online portal but it's possible initial plans are with the planners for their agreement before formal planning is submitted, although Wael didn't suggest that was the case, assuming but perhaps Hamer's not told him!

[Fiale]

 

11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I may have skipped over this bit. Have they actually an application in, and does anyone know what they have 'planned' ??
Perhaps the Billionaire has sneaked in plans for a 27,001 all seater with me noticing.

 

A few months back they were looking at other clubs facilities for ideas. They said they liked Fleetwoods set up and it would match he clubs vision going forward. Problem is it costs Fleetwood £8 million to create Poolfoot farm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cider_boy]

3 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I can't get my head round why, unless it was for nefarious means, you'd put a clause like that in.  If a company is bankrupted, surely every effort to maximise the sale of assets should be made, to pay off creditors.

I believe that the intention (or excuse) was that that clause was included so that in the eventually of either club going bust, the other wouldn't be made homeless.

The fact that the Rugby club went under so soon after does make the whole deal look like a stitch up.

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, Fiale said:

A few months back they were looking at other clubs facilities for ideas. They said they liked Fleetwoods set up and it would match he clubs vision going forward. Problem is it costs Fleetwood £8 million to create Poolfoot farm.

So , what you're saying is no then 

Didn't I see that figure as the sum set aside for the Rugby ground refurb??

[glynriley]

12 minutes ago, Cider_boy said:

I believe that the intention (or excuse) was that that clause was included so that in the eventually of either club going bust, the other wouldn't be made homeless.

The fact that the Rugby club went under so soon after does make the whole deal look like a stitch up.

The rugby club can have it back when wally sells it to SL, when the gAsss have gone to live on a farm*

*that's what they'll tell the little gas snorters...

And Jake's dad..probably. 

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Gashead2017 said:

To be fair to Harleyhas this a fair post rather than a "cracker"? I sense a lot of genuine Gashead feel the same following the news the UWE was dead, the real danger is we become the Port Vale to your Stoke, I think most genuine Bristolian football fans would sooner a bit of rivalry than one totally dominant club like is now the case in the Potteries.

Sorry but no , I hope we never play you in the league again . Rovers fans want it because you'll be closer to us and to some of you that's all you aspire to. Nobody has a Devine right to play at any given level but I certainly hope we dont drop below the championship for many many years. To be honest,  the way you have been run I'd just be hoping it doesn't collapse like a house of cards. I'd be very worried if I was one of your lot. 

[steviestevieneville]

49 minutes ago, Malago said:

. During 1939 Bristol Rovers F.C negotiated a sale price to the Bristol Greyhound Company, albeit by the chairman, who carried out the deal without the knowledge of his fellow directors. Eastville changed hands for £12,000 and the first General Manager was Lieutenant-Colonel Forsdike who was to become secretary of the National Greyhound Racing Club.^[4]

They also went bust in that year but the outbreak of WW2 and the cancellation of the football league saved them . 

[Bianconeri]

10 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

They also went bust in that year but the outbreak of WW2 and the cancellation of the football league saved them . 

Weren't they bottom of the league when war was declared?

[Wanderingred]

1 hour ago, Gashead2017 said:

To be fair to Harleyhas this a fair post rather than a "cracker"? I sense a lot of genuine Gashead feel the same following the news the UWE was dead, the real danger is we become the Port Vale to your Stoke, I think most genuine Bristolian football fans would sooner a bit of rivalry than one totally dominant club like is now the case in the Potteries.

Perfectly happy the way things are thanks!

[Gashead2017]

18 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Sorry but no , I hope we never play you in the league again . Rovers fans want it because you'll be closer to us and to some of you that's all you aspire to. Nobody has a Devine right to play at any given level but I certainly hope we dont drop below the championship for many many years. To be honest,  the way you have been run I'd just be hoping it doesn't collapse like a house of cards. I'd be very worried if I was one of your lot. 

You say that but your posting on a thread relating to Rovers so clearly you have some interest in the club, personally I feel Bristol would be a worse place, football wise, if we became another Stoke, there must be virtually no banter/rivalry between fans their as all Stoke fans probably have zero interest in a club light years away from them. I fear that could well happen in Bristol now unless Wael  soon starts pulling rabbits out of hats  

[Gashead2017]

Just now, Wanderingred said:

Perfectly happy the way things are thanks!

At the moment there's still rivalry, I bet there's not a thread this long about Port Vale on the Stoke forum!, if you ever get to the promised land and Wael doesn't deliver something at the Mem soon life could become a bit boring with neither teams fans interested in the other's results. 

[miser]

1 hour ago, Gashead2017 said:

To be fair to Harleyhas this a fair post rather than a "cracker"? I sense a lot of genuine Gashead feel the same following the news the UWE was dead, the real danger is we become the Port Vale to your Stoke, I think most genuine Bristolian football fans would sooner a bit of rivalry than one totally dominant club like is now the case in the Potteries.

Stoke v Port Vale is an apt analogy - Burslem is one of the most backward places I've been to !

[Malago]

15 minutes ago, Bianconeri said:

Weren't they bottom of the league when war was declared?

They finished bottom of Div 3 south in the season 38/39, but were reelected during that summer.  The entire season 39/40 was abandoned after a few games when war broke out.

There are those who still hold that Hitler only invaded Poland to stop the gas going bust.

[Eddie Hitler]

20 minutes ago, Malago said:

They finished bottom of Div 3 south in the season 38/39, but were reelected during that summer.  The entire season 39/40 was abandoned after a few games when war broke out.

There are those who still hold that Hitler only invaded Poland to stop the gas going bust.

I was promised a share in the greyhound racing if I kicked it all off.  I never received it.

[Rich]

1 hour ago, Gashead2017 said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the correct version appears to be :

"The rugby club were in serious financial difficulties so we agreed to a 50% share of the ground at at a cost of £2.3m. In 1998, Bristol's financial issues became worse and they wanted to sell to Amtrack, reputedly for £1m. That agreement fell through as Amtrack pulled out so we triggered a clause in the ground share agreement where we could buy the remaining 50% for £100,000."

Although I agree with the views we didn't learn from previous mistakes as I've no idea how we now owe £10m to a family of bankers from Jordanian who apart from the odd Rolex watch show no real signs of being wealthy. But at least the believers still think Wael will build us a new 22,000 seat stadium and a state of the art academy!! 
 

 

Very nice of you to come on here and bring your "news". You are welcome to come on here, unlike other sites, unfortunately, if you do bring "news" onto this site to so say correct somebody, please make it accurate. You can get away with misrepresentations on the other site but, not here.

Below is the obituary of Arthur Holmes, written on your clubs website in honour of him, by Mr Dunford in 2015. In it, he goes to great lengths to try and justify the deal, which seems rather strange, rather than celebrate the mans life. One wonders why. Please read and digest.

By Geoff Dunford

Arthur Holmes who passed peacefully away on January 4th aged 90 should be remembered by both Bristol Rugby club and Bristol Rovers with gratitude.

Arthur had to deal with rugby turning professional when it was not universally accepted. He carried this financial burden almost on his own. He was also the man who recognised sporting clubs could work closer together for mutual benefit

With the advent of professional rugby in the 1990's the top rugby clubs in the country had to make important decisions on their future.  Should they turn professional or retain their traditional amateur/semi professional roots?

Bristol Rugby Club decided to follow the professional route along with most of the top clubs in England, however, it did not go down well with some of the Bristol purists who either withdrew their financial support or did not contribute to the coffers of Bristol Rugby. This resulted in a lifeline for Bristol Rovers who were still playing in Bath and I was charged with negotiating a lease with Bristol Rugby to return Bristol Rovers to Bristol which was successful.

When I first met Arthur Holmes he was struggling to maintain Bristol on a sound financial footing and it seems he was fighting a lone battle. He needed financial support from other Bristol businessmen who were rugby fans, but the professional era was not popular. A deal was on the table to sell The Memorial Ground to a pension company and for the rugby club to rent it back. This was discussed at a Rovers board meeting and it was decided to offer the rugby club the same deal as the pension company but with the added benefit of starting a new company to acquire the stadium (The Memorial Stadium Company) with each club buying 50% of the shareholding for £10,000, and the rugby club would also receive £2.3m to solve their cash flow problems.

This option was far better than the pension company offer as it would result in the same amount of cash to the rugby club plus 50% ownership of the ground.

I found Arthur Holmes to be a gentleman in his business dealings and as a person. Indeed, he funded personally an amount of £250k to complete the sale to The Memorial Stadium Company as we were still short of funds at the deadline, to ensure Bristol Rugby could retain 50% ownership. (Arthur was made a Vice President of Bristol Rovers in light of this kind gesture.)

As we are only too aware in Football, professional sport is a difficult business to balance the books, and without further financial assistance from others who could have made a difference, Arthur, found the finances of professional rugby unsustainable without other benefactors.  Indeed, the only time offers of financial help came, it was too late as the club had already entered administration.

If either club entered administration, the other had the right to purchase the shares in the stadium company for the initial price of £10k to maintain their trading position, and this is what occurred.

Bristol Rugby survived turning professional and like most sports clubs needed very rich benefactors to help them maintain their progress.

Arthur Holmes loved rugby, and loved Bristol Rugby Club. If it wasn't for his support the rugby club would have disappeared into the amateur game and Bristol Rovers would still be playing elsewhere. Sometimes history gets twisted into rumour and sub plots, but rest assured, both Bristol Rugby and Bristol Rovers have reasons to thank Arthur Holmes for being in existence today.

Arthur, rest in peace, you were a true gentleman, something very rare in sporting circles today. Our thoughts and prayers are with his wife Julie and family.

The deal you refer to with Amtrak, was I believe, to purchase the ground for £1m, then rent it back to the rugby club with a distribution center on the car park area. Suddenly there appeared a much better deal for £2m which Arthur negotiated and was better all round because the rugby club still got to own 50% of their own ground, except the rugby club got so little, as £2m was paid back to AH. There was only one club going to go bust and that was Bristol rugby, as they were haemorrhaging money, as on national journalist put it. At the time of the deal I remember a quote from Mr Dunford stating that, this was a great deal for BRFC, as we now have a 50% share in £6m worth of real estate for £2m.

 

[Rich]

2 hours ago, Bianconeri said:

Didn't the rugby club get half the value of the stadium when the deal was set up? In which case they would have been able to buy it back for 10k had the sags gone under.

 

Yes they did get half the value when it was set up. Unfortunately, they owned all of it before that deal was set up. They effectively sold half, on the major shareholders instructions, then repaid the major shareholder the £2m they owed him. What money the rugby club actually received did very little to alleviate their problems and their major shareholder and then Chairman, Arthur Holmes, filed for bankruptcy, five months after the deal was struck, barely time for the ink to dry.

[Bianconeri]

7 hours ago, Rich said:

Yes they did get half the value when it was set up. Unfortunately, they owned all of it before that deal was set up. They effectively sold half, on the major shareholders instructions, then repaid the major shareholder the £2m they owed him. What money the rugby club actually received did very little to alleviate their problems and their major shareholder and then Chairman, Arthur Holmes, filed for bankruptcy, five months after the deal was struck, barely time for the ink to dry.

Fair enough, sold half the ground, got some cash which they used to pay some debts to a major shareholder, not enough so went bust and lost the other half. 

Nothing like that will happen again in Bristol will it?

[cidercity1987]

9 hours ago, Gashead2017 said:

To be fair to Harleyhas this a fair post rather than a "cracker"? I sense a lot of genuine Gashead feel the same following the news the UWE was dead, the real danger is we become the Port Vale to your Stoke, I think most genuine Bristolian football fans would sooner a bit of rivalry than one totally dominant club like is now the case in the Potteries.

No, No, I would rather we were in the Premiership and you were in League Two, like Stoke and Port Vale.

[WTFiGO!?!]

10 hours ago, Gashead2017 said:

To be fair to Harleyhas this a fair post rather than a "cracker"? I sense a lot of genuine Gashead feel the same following the news the UWE was dead, the real danger is we become the Port Vale to your Stoke, I think most genuine Bristolian football fans would sooner a bit of rivalry than one totally dominant club like is now the case in the Potteries.

We've now had just about a whole generation for genuine Bristolian football fans (whatever you mean by that, most I know are either genuine City or genuine R*vers fans) to get used to having no real rivalry due to the chronic incompetence of Bristol R*vers.  

[elhombrecito]

10 hours ago, Gashead2017 said:

I think most genuine Bristolian football fans would sooner a bit of rivalry than one totally dominant club like is now the case in the Potteries.

100% no. I want City to be completely dominant for the foreseeable future. Thankfully, it looks like my wish will be coming true.