Nigel Pearson

[Shuffle]

Now we all accept that NP inherited a poor squad.  He’s had a free pass and frankly his record is appalling but more worrying is that nothing has changed in terms of entertainment & what is our game plan?   I can take results over performance but since last international break we are going backwards.  NP doesn’t know his best team, best formation and his use of subs is appalling.  The football is route one and diabolical & whilst accepting that he’s inherited huge problems, other than slashing the wage bill through summer releases what has NP actually brought to the party?  I’m stuck between we cannot change our manager again and what the hell is he doing? Current situation is unacceptable as in last 5 games we’ve been schooled by WBA/BMouth and outplayed by Barnsley with a limp display v Brum & a bottle job v Forest.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Shuffle

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

It is though. The problem is not Pearson, who is clearly currently underperforming. It is a series of decisions from the top leading to this, including personnel appointments, transfer madness and general mis-management.

But those decisions are in the past.  We now have a squad made up of decent players, experienced professionals alongside promising youngsters.  It’s the manager’s job to get the best out of them, and Pearson is not doing that.  Hiding behind decisions made three or four years ago won’t disguise the fact that this squad of players is significantly underperforming, and the problem is getting worse.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

4 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

It is though. The problem is not Pearson, who is clearly currently underperforming. It is a series of decisions from the top leading to this, including personnel appointments, transfer madness and general mis-management.

Emperor's new clothes.

[bexhill reds]

If I were Richard Gould, I’d be sounding out Chris Wilder’s representatives to see if he’s interested, he CAN organise a pile of horseshit into something that’s half difficult to beat.

Starting to lose belief a bit, love NP to be successful but we look like a rabble at present

[TomThumb84]

9 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

But those decisions are in the past.  We now have a squad made up of decent players, experienced professionals alongside promising youngsters.  It’s the manager’s job to get the best out of them, and Pearson is not doing that.  Hiding behind decisions made three or four years ago won’t disguise the fact that this squad of players is significantly underperforming, and the problem is getting worse.

On what basis do you think they are “decent players”?
 

We paid £10m for a centre-half and a left back who got bullied and toyed with today.

The “promising youngsters” thing is interesting too. As none of them look remotely good enough for the Championship (Scott aside) right now.

Coincidentally the noise around the youngsters has increased as the transfer funds have dried up.

[Waconda]

33 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

The evidence is our own ******* eyes.

These players HAVE played better. They HAVE been more organised. They HAVE been able to close down attackers better. They HAVE been less wayward in passing. They HAVE made better runs off the ball.  They HAVE linked up better.

But - with what I consider only a temporary and very marginal improvement in their ability at the start of this season - it has been a slow decline in their ability to do the basics. Until you get a game like tonight, where we end up looking like pub players. 

So, given that they weren't always this shit, what can you blame the decline in their footballing ability on?

Yes morale can come into it, but ultimately we don't seem to be coached to do basic things.  Bloody Yeovil standard players would've been embarrassed by that third goal.  Stuff like that quite simply should never be happening. 

Exactly this.

The constant "the players are crap" excuse still being trotted out tonight.

You could see on Saturday the utter confusion and disorganisation.

Edited November 2, 2021 by VT05763

[Fuber]

25 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Yep- he probably felt the same way at his last three clubs:

 

Sacked by :

Derby 8/10/16

OH Leven 52/19

Watford 19/7/20

and it's now all everyone's fault except one of the worst performing managers in recent history.

Good luck everyone if you think the problem is BCFC alone. 

If rumours with regards to his time at Derby are correct, he all but walked out on Morris but was apparently 'sacked'. The latter interfering with his running of the club, again, if believed.

Leuven, foreign club, different league, always was going to be a challenge. Many other managers aside from NP have tried and failed who are better than him. Moyes, etc.

Watford - bottom when he took over, 17th when they sacked him. Went onto lose their last two with an absolute whimper and got relegated. If anything it's a plus on his CV rather than a negative.

[TomThumb84]

12 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Emperor's new clothes.

Could say the same about Lansdown.

Lovely ground that we cannot win in, and a High Performance Centre for mediocre performers.

Just forgot to appoint managers or CEO’s who could get a team on the pitch or keep valuable assets at the club.

[Super]

I still want NP here ATM but he has to take some blame. We are dreadful to watch can barely string 2 passes together and make mistakes in defence. Unless it changes we are getting relegated we are that bad.

[Fuber]

32 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

The evidence is our own ******* eyes.

These players HAVE played better. They HAVE been more organised. They HAVE been able to close down attackers better. They HAVE been less wayward in passing. They HAVE made better runs off the ball.  They HAVE linked up better.

But - with what I consider only a temporary and very marginal improvement in their ability at the start of this season - it has been a slow decline in their ability to do the basics. Until you get a game like tonight, where we end up looking like pub players. 

So, given that they weren't always this shit, what can you blame the decline in their footballing ability on?

Yes morale can come into it, but ultimately we don't seem to be coached to do basic things.  Bloody Yeovil standard players would've been embarrassed by that third goal.  Stuff like that quite simply should never be happening. 

I agree - many of them can indeed do better.

But in my opinion, which is open to disagreement, I simply do not think the large majority of this squad are good enough or suited to this league. Which I think is a larger factor.

The only members of this squad on paper I'd keep concrete for the first eleven are Bentley, Atkinson, Massengo, Scott, Williams (if fit), and James, possibly Weimann. Add in a couple of younger players as squad options and the academy prospects (I.e. Tanner, Pring, Benarous).

The rest of them I simply wouldn't miss. Even Kalas - who while outstanding in his own right, does not get basic communication right whatsoever, which is imperative when you have two inexperienced defenders either side of you.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, NP gets sacked down the line, and things improve. But that's a matter of hindsight.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

On what evidence?

Bentley, Kalas, DaSilva, Atkinson, James, Baker - arguably would agree, Championship Quality.

Massengo - likely too good for us.

Pring, Tanner  - Solid squad options, but only young and lacking experience at this level.

Note the common theme, no forward players anywhere have I listed. And barring Massengo and James, no midfielders.

The rest? - wouldn't touch any of them with a barge pole for the first eleven given a choice. Especially on their supposed wages.

Williams is League One standard? Definitely can't see that as the case, Weimann has quite a useful return, Martin is being and has been flogged, Wells- well we don't play the way that QPR did when they had a better version of him not so long ago. Scott and Semenyo as we know have promise.

[Fuber]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Williams is League One standard? Definitely can't see that as the case, Weimann has quite a useful return, Martin is being and has been flogged, Wells- well we don't play the way that QPR did when they had a better version of him not so long ago. Scott and Semenyo as we know have promise.

Williams isn't league one standard. But evidently unfortunately cannot be relied upon.

Just my personal ultra critical take.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

Williams isn't league one standard. But evidently unfortunately cannot be relied upon.

Just my personal ultra critical take.

Think Williams is a big miss tbh. That unit could be a platform for better things IMO if fit and consistently in there as a 3- him, James and Massengo.

Think he had a 70-80% availability average at his prior 3 loan clubs or clubs- Wigan, Bolton, Barnsley in whatever order- strange how that's imploded here or desperately unlucky.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Fuber]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Williams is League One standard? Definitely can't see that as the case, Weimann has quite a useful return, Martin is being and has been flogged, Wells- well we don't play the way that QPR did when they had a better version of him not so long ago. Scott and Semenyo as we know have promise.

Martin has scored 7 goals in 70 games across 4 years. I just do not think he offers enough.

Wells is, for me, part of a wider problem with regards to squad balance.

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Fuber said:

I agree - many of them can indeed do better.

But in my opinion, which is open to disagreement, I simply do not think the large majority of this squad are good enough or suited to this league. Which I think is a larger factor.

The only members of this squad on paper I'd keep concrete for the first eleven are Bentley, Atkinson, Massengo, Scott, Williams (if fit), and James, possibly Weimann. Add in a couple of younger players as squad options and the academy prospects (I.e. Tanner, Pring, Benarous).

The rest of them I simply wouldn't miss. Even Kalas - who while outstanding in his own right, does not get basic communication right whatsoever, which is imperative when you have two inexperienced defenders either side of you.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, NP gets sacked down the line, and things improve. But that's a matter of hindsight.

 

We got rid of 12 players last summer. This isn't fantasy football league where you can just sack most of the rest off and bring in a lot of newbies and expect them to be a great team. Apart from anything there isn't the money to do that.

Realistically, Pearson (or any manager who'd replace Pearson) will have to work largely with what we have and seek to improve and get the best out of them. Blackpool have shown this can be done with "L1" players.

But ATM we're miles from getting the best out of what we have. We seem to have regressed people, not improved them.

For this reason, I think Pearson and Fleming - both of whom seem genuine, feet-on-the-ground, decent guys - could do with a bit of coaching help from someone with a fresh perspective. Someone really good. As an investment, it's more affordable than "buy 10 new players next summer".

 

[Fuber]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Think Williams is a big miss tbh. That unit could be a platform for better things IMO if fit and consistently in there as a 3- him, James and Massengo.

Think he had a 70-80% availability average at his prior 3 loan clubs or clubs- Wigan, Bolton, Barnsley in whatever order- strange how that's imploded here or desperately unlucky.

Think it's the impact of the historical misdiagnosis under Rolls' medical team, where he went missing for half a year.

That long out with no treatment may have taken much more of a toll than many, including Rennie, may have realised.

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Fuber said:

Think it's the impact of the historical misdiagnosis under Rolls' medical team, where he went missing for half a year.

That long out with no treatment may have taken much more of a toll than many, including Rennie, may have realised.

 

That's a very fair point. We shouldn't underestimate how the malign influence of that backroom knocked the stuffing out of competent players.

[Fuber]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

We got rid of 12 players last summer. This isn't fantasy football league where you can just sack most of the rest off and bring in a lot of newbies and expect them to be a great team. Apart from anything there isn't the money to do that.

Realistically, Pearson (or any manager who'd replace Pearson) will have to work largely with what we have and seek to improve and get the best out of them. Blackpool have shown this can be done with "L1" players.

But ATM we're miles from getting the best out of what we have. We seem to have regressed people, not improved them.

For this reason, I think Pearson and Fleming - both of whom seem genuine, feet-on-the-ground, decent guys - could do with a bit of coaching help from someone with a fresh perspective. Someone really good. As an investment, it's more affordable than "buy 10 new players next summer".

 

I agree 100% with the above in bold.

Only point of contention I'd raise is that confidence goes a major way, re Blackpool.

When that inertia wears off will be their acid test. Confidence is short term, ability longer.

[Ska Junkie]

I'm not saying he should go or not but, I would imagine,questions should be asked of him if we get gubbed on Saturday, which is a distinct possibility.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Ska Junkie

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

Martin has scored 7 goals in 70 games across 4 years. I just do not think he offers enough.

Wells is, for me, part of a wider problem with regards to squad balance.

Martin can also link- at Derby in his final season they used him well, they perhaps had a deeper squad but they used him well. Let him build up his fitness for a month or two and then used him more, even then not every match. Way we hit it long probably doesn't help him or us, he has a decent touch at times, we saw a little snippet with the goal to make it 2-1- he pulled a bit wider and put a ball in for Weimann rather than hitting it long and central.

Yeah we definitely have issues on the balance front. Weimann wideish right and Semenyo wideish left if fit could offer a certain balance or symmetery out of possession, but Weimann, Wells and Martin as a front 3- occasionally but not regularly. Wells I just wonder, in his 2020/21 he had a reasonable return albeit nothing spectacular but he was our top scorer with a few assists?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, red colin said:

Am now starting to realise nige unless massive improvement imminent. Has lots his mojo and peasron can't pick up players like he used too it's gone. I feel he has been now left behind in managing. 

I am still pro NP, accept that this is a big job and he is clearly the most experienced and highest profile manager we have had arguably since Coppell- and far more character given how he is getting stuck in.

I've sometimes pondered this last bit though but from a different angle- is he still tactically equipped for the top end of the Championship? My hope is yes and that we will see things improve but it's a small nagging doubt I sometimes wonder about- still not time to judge him yet, we're about 1/3 of the way through a probable rebuilding season.

All that said I thought that the first 11- we had ups and downs, but as a whole in the the 1st 11 we looked alright. Not saying top 6, not saying dazzling but we've regressed at a rate of knots since we came back from the 2nd International break.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 Unfortunately, Chris Martin's glory days were in the past and he isn't the player he once was.

11 goals and 6 assists not all that long ago? Season 2019/20 in a midtable Derby side. 25 starts, 10 sub appearances- not bad.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/23438/History/Chris-Martin

Don't think we are doing him any favours with playing him every week and with what we ask him to do at times. His truly exceptional days however look to have been 2013/14 through to 2015/16- and let's not forget, he is almost 33 now.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red-Robbo]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

11 goals and 6 assists not all that long ago? Season 2019/20 in a midtable Derby side. 25 starts, 10 sub appearances- not bad.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/23438/History/Chris-Martin

Don't think we are doing him any favours with playing him every week and with what we ask him to do at times. His truly exceptional days however look to have been 2013/14 through to 2015/16- and let's not forget, he is almost 33 now.

 

Quite. I don't mean to insinuate he's ready for the knacker's yard. But he's an ageing striker and he simply cannot play the number of minutes he's being asked to.

Nige doesn't help the situation, by leaving him on when he's clearly tired. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

11 goals and 6 assists not all that long ago? Season 2019/20 in a midtable Derby side. 25 starts, 10 sub appearances- not bad.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/23438/History/Chris-Martin

Don't think we are doing him any favours with playing him every week and with what we ask him to do at times. His truly exceptional days however look to have been 2013/14 through to 2015/16- and let's not forget, he is almost 33 now.

Nige has a similar success record until 2015 - and lets not forget he's almost 60 now!

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, ray savino said:

This is starting to feel so much like the O’Driscoll era. Comes in to get the wages down and rebuild, but doesn’t have the resources to change things quickly. Performances and atmosphere just goes down and down.

Having real doubts if NP can change things and at least motivate this lot. Our forwards don’t get the service, but are so truly average at this level. Wells can’t play in this team. Martin is too slow and cumbersome. What does it say about Palmer and O’Dowda if they can’t get in this team.

One hope? Still two thirds of the season left to get their fingers out - provided they find a way of getting a few combative loans in January.

 

I like your posts Ray….very sensible, well articulated.

My view during the summer was that I thought we were more like the summer of 16/17 season in terms of where we are, e.g. coming off the back of a tough Champ season, but stayed up, ready to kick on.  But my nagging doubt was the financial side, and I did wonder (but doubted) whether we were more SOD 12/13 through 13/14, e.g. slashing the wage bill and picking up frees and young players.

I do start to think it is more like the SOD era, hence my I’ve posted a few times whether Nige might not see the 3 years out in the capacity as manager, but might slip more into a “DoF” role in time with a younger manager coming in.  But I think he will set the foundations.

2 hours ago, S_C said:

I think we need to understand that the club is currently 3-5 months into a transition process that is going to be, as they tend to be, a bumpy road.

We played ok for around an hour, James got injured, we tactically and mentally capitulated. That is both completely unacceptable and hugely concerning, and I don’t begrudge anyone who watched how tonight unfolded and questions if Pearson is the man to oversee the project.

With that said, I continue to be confused by how {essentially} everyone agreed this would be a very difficult season, survival is the aim, performances then reflect expectation but suddenly monocles are falling out. To say things like ‘we haven’t improved from last season’ is simply untrue. Not on the last 30 tonight, perhaps, and performances have tailed off lately (I really don’t give much consideration to results vs Bournemouth/West Brom), but we have shown sprouts of life at times that were absolutely nowhere to be seen as the shambles of last year drew to a close.

Slash the wage bill, stay up. Slash the wage bill, stay up. Slash the wage bill, stay up.. That is what this season is about. On the last 30 minutes of tonight there’s a real worry we might not manage the latter however we’re currently 10 clear of the drop so, taking a breath, on course to meet our aims.

I like your posts too Steve.  Sensible!

We can start the Pearson Out stuff now, but we are just re-starting the re-build.  The foundations aren’t there at the mo’.  We will end up back in the same cycle of bringing a manager in mid season, he does ok for a bit because it’s all done with short term success in mind, and then it breaks, you sack him and it’s back to square one.  It’s hard, but we have to take on some pain, and as a set of fans I don’t think that many are prepared for that.  They want it all now, and then moan that Luton and Coventry are flying.  Well, guess what, they did their rebuild and because they did a good job and were patient, they can now build a two storey extension without planning permission or having to knock half the house down to do it.

Its gonna be tough, I’m prepared to go through that….jeez we did 1981/2.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

At the minute, I haven’t seen a worse side than us. Even Barnsley should have probably come away with a point on the weekend. 

But at other times this season have you seen worse?  Because I have.  We’ve played alright at times this season.  We need to ensure the current form doesn’t continue.  We need to drag that back.

[MC RISK77]

7 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Holden had us 8th going into February, with injury numbers ranging from 5 players to over half the squad throughout the whole season.

Otib: 'He is clueless, sack him!'

Pearson loses 3-0 away at Birmingham and has us 18th. Looking like a team heading for relegation.

Otib: 'Pearson has such a difficult job.'

Yep totally agree….nobody wanted Holden because they felt he was part of the problem when Lee left. However his record and win % are superior to Pearson, who I believe many were grasping onto his past glories hoping he would replicate it here.

This team has no steel, no leadership, no determination, is mentally weak - and despite everyone saying this squad is rubbish, these are all things that can be instilled into players by the right type of leader, the right type of motivator.

The problem I have is that I have never got the feeling that Pearson really wants to be here, he doesn’t look like a man who is enjoying his job, or a man determined to do something special and turn this club around. That must surely rub off on the players, and he compounds it most weeks by confirming how shit we are and how we need a lot more players to be able to compete,  which everyone seems to love because he is being so honest!!! 
 

We are most definitely relegation candidates, too early to push the button for me but how long do you give it and who do you bring in. One thing I am sure of is that Lansdown does not have a clue, and probably does not have a shortlist of possible replacements.

[samo II]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

But at other times this season have you seen worse?  Because I have.  We’ve played alright at times this season.  We need to ensure the current form doesn’t continue.  We need to drag that back.

This is the thing; my concern is - what suggests this won’t be the case?

Both in reference to the above and you’re earlier, longer post; I fully accepted coming into this year we were rebuilding from a position of weakness, and have said repeatedly we’d struggle to get results and probably be the same for performances at times too - it wouldn’t be pretty.

But the concerning thing currently is we aren’t doing anything that looks to progress us out of that state; from consistently selecting the same, often under-performing aging players, to a actual witnessable regression in the general ‘give-a-shit’ demeanour of even the younger players (Tanner for me is an example of this; from keen new face to resigned-to-a-loss body language) - I’m struggling to grasp where the path out starts.

Last year, the new manager ‘bounce’ essentially gave us enough points to ensure relegation would be out of reach other than under the worst possible circumstances - right now we’re looking as bad as we have recently (between Forest and that shambles last night, yes; worst I’ve seen us for years), but have too much of the season left to get out of jail because the games stop.

There appears to be no leadership within the team, and that is probably one of the reason NP is the third manager in charge of them in a worryingly short time, but at some stage something has to tick north - be that the players making a change, the gaffer, or someone else.

Rebuilding; yes, we are, and it’s painful and can’t be expected to happen over night - I personally have always accepted that, and have no illusions around it.

But the concept we can be as uncompetitive as we showed last night (and against Forest, and other times) regularly, shrug, and chalk it up to a lost season betrays the fact that as I’ve said elsewhere - we get no free pass just because we have long term problems.

In football, problems very quickly multiply unless you seek solutions; you can’t just wait for them to go away. I feel NP may be doing the work behind the scenes to get us there (back room staff changes often indicate this), but as a fan, I don’t think expecting more ‘green shoots’ than absolutely none at all is unreasonable at this point, and I hope we get some evidence we at least trying to turn it round soon.

[KegCity]

I've got my doubts now. That was turgid and there was very little response from the dugout until we were 3-0 down. It was obvious long balls and crosses from deep weren't working at half time. We continued with them in the second half. We had no creativity in the 3-5-2 and were crying out for Alex Scott. He came on at 3-0 down.

I think the problems run deeper than Pearson, and I'm not sure if we can afford to get rid of him or if there's anyone out there to bring in, but he has to take responsibility tonight. 

[JoeAman08]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

But at other times this season have you seen worse?  Because I have.  We’ve played alright at times this season.  We need to ensure the current form doesn’t continue.  We need to drag that back.

We have played better but 1 clean sheet and generally a grind to score. Have seen city more than anyone else obviously but haven’t seen anyone perform worse than us at our worst