Dasilva/Pring

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Interesting stats.  In games in which they have started/not started, results are as follows:

Pring started:     W5 D3 L2   not started:  W0 D1 L5

Dasilva started:  W1 D2 L6   not started:  W4 D2 L1

[weepywall]

Dasilva been a very disappointing signing in my opinion.

[Kid in the Riot]

Interesting, but completely unsurprising.

Dasilva has been a major disappointment, and to think we all thought we'd mugged Chelsea by only paying £2m for him. 

[Clevedon Red]

Jay has been off the pace for the last few games and last night he was torn a new one. 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

Said on another thread I think he is so overated and easily targeted by the opposition.

[Selred]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Dasilva has been a major disappointment, and to think we all thought we'd mugged Chelsea by only paying £2m for him. 

He was terrific on loan, well the 2nd half the season. 

Hasn't come back from the injury, is it confidence? Is it coaching?

[brad blit]

I said to someone the other day that Pring had really impressed me this season, he had one bad game when he was moved back to left back (can’t rem who against) and hasn’t really featured since. One of the few players that can actually take a player on and put in a good cross, plus works really hard down left hand side and offers good protection to left back. 

I think having Pring infront on JD would really helps JD game as he’s obviously a talent but like most his form has been off for couple seasons. 

[Red7]

While I partly agree with the sentiment, the comparison is a little misleading in that Pring hasn't been played in his 'normal' position of left back as much as Dasilva. Not sure of the exact stats on that (sure someone will oblige), but I'm sure that's the case.

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, Selred said:

He was terrific on loan, well the 2nd half the season. 

Yeah, he was. Unlike Palmer who we still went on to spunk £3m on.

3 minutes ago, brad blit said:

I think having Pring infront on JD would really helps JD game as he’s obviously a talent but like most his form has been off for couple seasons. 

Did this at Reading away and both of them did play well. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Kid in the Riot

[Davefevs]

I thought until he picked up an injury v Millwall, Jay was starting to find form again.

OP - just thought I’d share the game by game / position by position breakdown.  For info, Cam has started 3 games at LB for City, 1 at LWB, 6 at LM/W.  Baker played some at LB when Cam was LM/W.

From a physical perspective I definitely see the advantages of Pring.  As for Saturday, I’d go Baker LB, Pring LM/W…..but I’d pick Pring over Dasilva at this point.

[Selred]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yeah, he was. Unlike Palmer who we still went on to spunk £3m on.

7 minutes ago, brad blit said:

Never made any sense that deal.

[brad blit]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought until he picked up an injury v Millwall, Jay was starting to find form again.

OP - just thought I’d share the game by game / position by position breakdown.  For info, Cam has started 3 games at LB for City, 1 at LWB, 6 at LM/W.  Baker played some at LB when Cam was LM/W.

From a physical perspective I definitely see the advantages of Pring.  As for Saturday, I’d go Baker LB, Pring LM/W…..but I’d pick Pring over Dasilva at this point.

Dave - do you think Baker at left back is a good idea? Square pegs in Circular holes and all that…… 

[Supersonic Robin]

8 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yeah, he was. Unlike Palmer who we still went on to spunk £3m on.

Yepp, we can't really complain that we didn't know what we were getting with Palmer (as if the Palmer saga wasn't already frustrating enough)

[Fordy62]

4 minutes ago, Selred said:

Never made any sense that deal.

Yet wasn’t it so exciting? Signing three Chelsea youngsters who essentially made the spine of a new team to build around. 

One looks an expensive flop. 

Another is an expensive good player who doesn’t perform for us. 

And the last is an expensive tea cosy. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, brad blit said:

Dave - do you think Baker at left back is a good idea? Square pegs in Circular holes and all that…… 

Yes, because I think he’s looked fine playing their this season, and he brings physicality to our starting eleven.  Means you have an extra “big un” for defensive and attacking set-pieces….which in some respects means you can rest Martin.

A slightly different comparison view - goals for and against whilst a player is on the pitch.

[77 punk]

did we pay 14 million in total for the three chelsea players ?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, 77 punk said:

did we pay 14 million in total for the three chelsea players ?

As near as dammit

[tin]

29 minutes ago, Selred said:

He was terrific on loan, well the 2nd half the season. 

Hasn't come back from the injury, is it confidence? Is it coaching?

It's more likely that he just isn't the same player he was before his injury. It happens all the time, and he's a shadow of his old self. 

[Grey Fox]

In reality none of our full backs are good enough for Championship football, Pring and Tanner have potential, but not for two games a week, DaSilva and the bloody useless Simpson are just not good enough.

If we have any ambition, as a club, to avoid relegation we must bring in experienced replacements for RB and LB positions In January 

[Grey Fox]

1 minute ago, Grey Fox said:

In reality none of our full backs are good enough for Championship football, Pring and Tanner have potential, but not for two games a week, DaSilva and the bloody useless Simpson are just not good enough.

If we have any ambition, as a club, to avoid relegation we must bring in experienced replacements for RB and LB positions In January 

Of course, in League One next season Pring and Tanner will be fine, if that is the plan.

And yes, I am seriously pi….Ed off

[footie]

It wasn't too long ago that Dasilva was regarded as one of the best LB's in the league, I'm not sure what the solution is but definitely wouldn't give up on him just yet. He has that bit of class about him and feel he will start firing again with a bit of confidence.

As others have said, a left side of Dasilva with Pring in front could be the answer long term, this looked fairly strong earlier in the season.

 

[Street red]

23 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Dasilva has been quite disappointing this season.

I think it's a bit like Pato in that he's not really suited to Pearson tactics, we are unlikely to see the best of him playing in this team.

I imagine if a team like Swansea signed him from us then their fans would be raving about him!

Looking at player performances in general, many could and should do better.

Even people starting to wonder if Matty James is good enough. Well he looked quality for Coventry and apparently was very good for Barnsley before that.

Seems to be a bit of a pattern here.

Pring gets back in when 100% I think.

A pattern of sign for Bristol city and play absolutely crap and be inconsistent.. How many players have we signed since Johnson walked through the door up until Pearson. The turn over is incredible. Johnson must of signed at least 5 X starting 11 squads in his period 60 odd players.

[Red7]

1 hour ago, Red7 said:

While I partly agree with the sentiment, the comparison is a little misleading in that Pring hasn't been played in his 'normal' position of left back as much as Dasilva. Not sure of the exact stats on that (sure someone will oblige), but I'm sure that's the case.

 

59 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

OP - just thought I’d share the game by game / position by position breakdown.  For info, Cam has started 3 games at LB for City, 1 at LWB, 6 at LM/W.  Baker played some at LB when Cam was LM/W.

And I was also fairly sure that the someone would be @Davefevs 

[sh1t_ref_again]

DaSilva since being injured has lost all pace, he is continually be skinned by wingers now, he always had a problem with his height, but that coupled now with lack of pace makes him a liability at LB. If he plays at all, then it would be in front or Pring, but you may as well play Odowda who offers more going forward

[GrahamC]

I actually think Dasilva has been ok, not a world beater but ok.

His availability record this season has been decent, too.

I’m not as convinced as others about him defensively (he got a chasing from Jordan Graham first half last night) but at the time we bought him £2m was relatively little.

I’d rather see him playing in front of Pring or Baker but am not about to write him off.

I’m struggling with the comment above about the 3 Chelsea players though, Palmer has been a flop, but for me Kalas certainly has not & at 23 I’m not giving up on Dasilva yet.

[Harry]

I did say back in May that Pring was better than JD - and some laughed, ha ha.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Harry

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I actually think Dasilva has been ok, not a world beater but ok.

His availability record this season has been decent, too.

I’m not as convinced as others about him defensively (he got a chasing from Jordan Graham first half last night) but at the time we bought him £2m was relatively little.

I’d rather see him playing in front of Pring or Baker but am not about to write him off.

I’m struggling with the comment above about the 3 Chelsea players though, Palmer has been a flop, but for me Kalas certainly has not & at 23 I’m not giving up on Dasilva yet.

Dasilva has had an awful time with injuries and that has to be seen as part of the context. I think he has struggled this season but we've seen that - before his injuries - he looked very good at this level and I certainly agree it would be a mistake to write off a 23 year old. The club really need to look at how to get him back to his previous level though and, at the moment, Pring or a fit Baker have to be ahead of him. 

[The Bard]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Didn't take long did it?

[Supersonic Robin]

Surprised at just how much criticism Dasilva is coming in for here. His injuries have obviously set him back a bit, but he's far from a bad player.

 

[Banjo Red]

Pring for me Dasilva too light weight and gets targeted with the high ball.

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, weepywall said:

Dasilva been a very disappointing signing in my opinion.

How can a footballer brought through the Chelsea Academy and who represented England at U-16 to U-19's be so poor?   It's like he's been taken over by an extra from "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".......WTF has happened to Jay?  He is beyond awful at present IMHO

[steveybadger]

3 hours ago, brad blit said:

I said to someone the other day that Pring had really impressed me this season, he had one bad game when he was moved back to left back (can’t rem who against) and hasn’t really featured since. One of the few players that can actually take a player on and put in a good cross, plus works really hard down left hand side and offers good protection to left back. 

I think having Pring infront on JD would really helps JD game as he’s obviously a talent but like most his form has been off for couple seasons. 

Alternatively the other way round: Pring is a better defender, could still get forward and put crosses in, while Dasilva (who is technically better) can get more involved in improving our passing in midfield?

[Simon bristol]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

As near as dammit

At least mark ashton got his ego boosted by dealing with a big club while he pissed all that money up the wall.

[Malago]

FWIW I think the shin injuries are playing on Dasilva’s mind and consequently he’s not playing to his full ability.

[grifty]

Like many players, we do not play the football that suits their game. Also, the lack of options and movement from midfield and the strikers massively limits what JD can do.

Every pass from a centre back or Bentley to Jay is onto his right foot, so he has to either control with his weaker foot, or his first touch is with his left and it's coming back towards our own goal. If you watch Van Dijk pass to Robertson, look how many times it's in front of him so he can just step on to it and move forward at pace.

On the odd occasion that Jay does get the ball and is facing the opposition goal, no-one moves. The rest of the team are like statues. He has no-one to pass to inside, no-one makes a run down the line, or gets close enough to get some neat triangles going. His only options then are to chip it down the line to Martin (pointless), have a go at a mazy dribble (works probably 2/5 times) or pass back to Atkinson or Baker (who lump it down the line to Martin who hasn't moved in 3 minutes).

JD is not a bad player, we need to get the players around him that are on the same wave length of wanting to actually receive the ball.

Semenyo is our best hope for that, but the poor guy can only score with his arse blocking the ball.

Edited November 3, 2021 by grifty

[weepywall]

4 hours ago, maxjak said:

How can a footballer brought through the Chelsea Academy and who represented England at U-16 to U-19's be so poor?   It's like he's been taken over by an extra from "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".......WTF has happened to Jay?  He is beyond awful at present IMHO

He joined Bristol City FC, we drag em down to our level

[mozo]

I quite like them both on the left hand side

[Will b11]

Would still go for Dasilva IMO , was quality on loan and we need him to get back to that level , I wouldn’t say he’s been that bad imo either , still only 23 so still time for him to develop 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Will b11 said:

Would still go for Dasilva IMO , was quality on loan and we need him to get back to that level , I wouldn’t say he’s been that bad imo either , still only 23 so still time for him to develop 

He’s actually younger than Pring, and has 78 Champ appearances under his belt.

[Davefevs]

Been impressed with Pring though.

[Garland-sweden]

Dont think Dasilva is a naturell lb. If he should start play him further up. He can only play with his left leg and the ball seldom gets fast forward when he gets it. Not often Im been impressed by him. Hunt became a scapegoat but he makes it simple, go forward and make crosses.

[Portland Bill]

15 hours ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Said on another thread I think he is so overated and easily targeted by the opposition.

I’ve consistently said it for a very long time. Obviously a talented footballer with the ball at his feet. But he lacks any desire as a defender to actually defend. I’ve never seen him show any real willingness to stop his man get the ball into our box, it’s simply incredible how easily he allows attacking opponents to do this. 

[Unan]

An entire season in great form must show it wasn’t a one off. Getting back to there is the hard part.

[Taylor10]

Both good options with age on their side, however I feel as though Pring is on the way up and JD is stagnating. 
I would go with Pring personally, been really disappointed with JD but at 23 he can still improve so wouldn’t write him off.

[Abraham Romanovich]

9 hours ago, grifty said:

Semenyo is our best hope for that, but the poor guy can only score with his arse blocking the ball.

The current Bristol City in a nutshell, unsure as to whether laugh or cry.

[sh1t_ref_again]

10 hours ago, grifty said:

Like many players, we do not play the football that suits their game.

That does not impact the fact wingers are running rings around him as he does not seem to have any pace now

[LondonBristolian]

10 hours ago, mozo said:

I quite like them both on the left hand side

I think this might be our best option at the moment. Pring left back with Dasilva left midfield would give us a bit more width and movement than we've shown of late. 

[IAmNick]

I like Jay, and think he's a good player. Not as good this season as he has been in the past I'll accept.

I don't think we're playing a good game for him, as @grifty mentioned above.

Technically I think he's excellent. With the ball at his feet in a tight space he does some great things and is one of the best in the squad, often beating one or even two players - even in a dangerous area. His height is an issue, but not an insurmountable one imo. I think he wants the ball, to play a short one two up the line or into midfield, receive in a small space and work his way past someone etc. which just isn't what we're even trying to do at the moment. I don't think he's as interested in sprinting up the line to take a high ball down which was pumped up from the back, or smash one up the line for the guy in front of him to run onto.

As @Davefevs said above too, it's easy to forget how young he is as we've seen so much of him. Same age as Pring, Bakinson, Atkinson, Cundy etc. so while he has a lot more experience (and should be judged as such) he's also not the finished article by any means.

I'd be really disappointed if we ditched him at this point, although I've been very impressed with Pring.

Edited November 4, 2021 by IAmNick

[GrahamC]

4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I think game plan has really not suited him at all. Wouldn't surprise me if he had a fair bit of interest at this level if Nige doesn't fancy him. Especially with many teams playing wing backs nowadays.

What are you basing that fanciful theory on?

We have played 16 league games so far, Dasilva has featured in 15 of them, which would suggest Nige does see him as an important member of his 18 on that evidence.

Palmer or O’Dowda maybe, but not Dasilva based on this.

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

What are you basing that fanciful theory on?

We have played 16 league games so far, Dasilva has featured in 15 of them, which would suggest Nige does see him as an important member of his 18 on that evidence.

Palmer or O’Dowda maybe, but not Dasilva based on this.

Usual fan comment at times like these!

@JonDolman im picking on you now.

Nige once said (last season when injured) Callum is a key player, does Nige not fancy him anymore?  Is some of your recent criticism of Nige partly a reflection of him looking like he’s lost faith in O’Dowda.  You were backing Nige a few weeks back.

[The Journalist]

20 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Did this at Reading away and both of them did play well. 

I'm at a complete loss why we haven't really done this more often. Presumably niggles/issues in the background we don't know about?

[grifty]

4 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

That does not impact the fact wingers are running rings around him as he does not seem to have any pace now

They are not running rings round him? The Birmingham winger actually only got past him once. He put two good balls in early on and them the rest were hitting the first man.

Pace I will give you, but he was never lighting and isn’t a player who is going to get up and down the wing all game, so we shouldn’t really expect him too.

I think 1 on 1 (on the ground) Jay is pretty good actually, he is often let down by his positioning and teams targeting his height.

[sh1t_ref_again]

21 minutes ago, grifty said:

They are not running rings round him? The Birmingham winger actually only got past him once. He put two good balls in early on and them the rest were hitting the first man.

Pace I will give you, but he was never lighting and isn’t a player who is going to get up and down the wing all game, so we shouldn’t really expect him too.

I think 1 on 1 (on the ground) Jay is pretty good actually, he is often let down by his positioning and teams targeting his height.

Sorry you must be having selective memory the Birmingham winger done him several times for pace as did the WBA winger. Since his injury he is not the same player, ok going forward but a liability at the back

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, grifty said:

They are not running rings round him? The Birmingham winger actually only got past him once. He put two good balls in early on and them the rest were hitting the first man.

Pace I will give you, but he was never lighting and isn’t a player who is going to get up and down the wing all game, so we shouldn’t really expect him too.

I think 1 on 1 (on the ground) Jay is pretty good actually, he is often let down by his positioning and teams targeting his height.

Might’ve got beaten more than once, but a lot of the time Jay got a block in, etc.  I do think there is a tendency to see a winger attacking a FB and assume it’s a roasting.

Graham first two, Dasilva below.