Ok, so what happens next?

[woodsyred]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

Get the feeling he may well walk due to health issues which may be the best thing all round, I can't see any thing about our game which has improved under his leadership the defence now looks as poor as ever leaking goals for fun if he goes so be it we've been poor with him I can't see it getting any worse with new leadership if Pearson stays we look doomed anyway without him who knows we would have to wait and see

[steveybadger]

42 minutes ago, Lordofthebling said:

The Pearson project just seems too far gone now. Physios to coaches, we are pot committed.

The worrying thing for me was the holden team just needed organisation and discipline. 

We seem over reliant on younger players who through no fault of their own, lack the mental toughness, the resilience and guile to see out 90 minutes of championship men's football.

We are toothless up front, too soft in midfield, disorganised in defence.

To me that was obvious from the start, maybe Pearson knew that too, as he seems genuinely agitated and almost finding this job funny. 

I'm tired of the same 'im cross  smile, i have my opinions on this squad, loooooook, adjusts glasses, empty threats and promises' for every abject performance.

Maybe the fault lies at SLs door, but its making the ashton and lj days look like heaven right now.

 

Your second sentence suggests there’s another reason for the general lethargy in the team. Concerning…

[Numero Uno]

21 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

What won’t happen but should is something I have advocated on Otib for years, namely a thorough outside audit of the club from top to bottom and side to side.

If this was done a way forward at all levels could be mapped out, and a plan set in place.

Truth is this club is badly run and has been for decades

Ivor, you've been banging on about this for years and been shouted down because "Saint Steve" could do no wrong. Well unfortunately "Saint Steve" has contributed with his billions to a situation where going to Ashton Gate is literally no longer enjoyable and hasn't been for around 3 years. His watch, his money, his running of the football club and what a complete and utter **** up he's made of it for the money he has invested. Bricks and Mortar - tick, progress on the pitch - just give me another 20 years and I'll get there. It does need a football person to come in and run it from the top.........but it's Steve's dosh and the mantra on here is therefore Steve's club, not ours in any way shape or form, so it won't happen. The Owner isn't fit for purpose and until the Owner either ***** off or changes tack dramatically we will continue to be bored to tears by the AG experience.

I'm supposed to be grateful that Saint Steve subsidises years on end of absolutely shit football, week after week and now year after year of the bastard stuff. Well forgive me but I'm not grateful one iota that the man has ruined for me something that used to give me so much pleasure. The bloke can stick his "legacy" right up his ******* arse as far as I'm concerned. Because no football club wouldn't be a massive amount worse than the heap of shit we are being subjected to right now.

[Sir Geoff]

Unless there is a break clause in NP's contract (i.e dropping in to bottom 3), which I doubt then we can not afford to sack him at this stage. That means we have to crawl through to January when RG and NP will have to work minor miracles to bring in 3/4 players (within FFP) that NP can trust to put a bit of backbone into the team. If this means older hands on short term contracts so be it. We need to stay in this league. Unfortunately you then defer the 3 year project's start until next summer when a few of LJ's players are out of contract and can be moved on. In this scenario we would have to send a few youngsters out on loan to free up wages (Pearson, Bell, Conway maybe even Scott)

As we saw the other night  the likes of Troy Deeney are still decent. Wes Morgan probably not up to it but that sort of player short term.

Personally I would rather see Pearson, Bell, Conway in the team than the continual use of Martin, Wells, Weimann but that seems unlikely to happen.

Needs must but these are desperate times.

[old_eastender]

16 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Firstly, something needs to change or we will be relegated, points deductions or not. The thing is what?

We know it was a big job, and he started with the backroom staff (much needed) , fair enough. 
The team , let's call it reshape as funds weren't there for a quick rebuild. King, James & Simpson were cheaper options to fill holes. 2 real signings look promising. Again I think that's fair enough.

My problem comes from what was the main reason I wanted an experienced man in. We have decent players, they have lacked organisation for some time. I wanted someone to come in and set us up properly, get us playing to a system, hopefully a style. After a hint at that, we have slipped back to being as toothless, weak and disorganised as any time under Lee Johnson or Holden.  
I'm not absolving the players of blame, but we are watching the same players do the same things with the same instructions and the same bloody substitutions game after game.  I would question dragging Pring off for Wells, that is the most basic FM manager/ LJ type of move, throwing an extra striker on . We were already conceding too much possession to their 10 men, why not just get fresh legs on, Martin? Why is he almost unsubable ? He is being flogged to death.

We desperately need something different to happen.

If Pearson is suffering from long COVID, or something that is ongoing, maybe a short term appointment while he gets well is the option. If he just is a little off I don't feel so kindly towards his position . 8 months into the job, experienced man we all wanted has had little or no impact. If Lansdown sees a long term job so Nige, I thin we have to get ready for relegation . Problem is , one look at Ipswich & Sunderland shows it's not a given to come straight back up. 
After what I've seen, the capitulations I've witnessed , the complete lack of football we've been served up, I would probably take Warnock for the rest of the season. Football can't be any worse and I doubt he would accept some of the performances we've had to suffer .  It would show we are at least not going to just measly go down, would be a very unpopular appointment, for that alone at least it would be entertaining. It would allow the club plenty of time to target another long term appointment.

Spot on - our use of subs is dumb.

Scott was all-in and needed to come off, but to bring on DaSilva was not the answer. We needed more presence in midfield, so whatever you think of him, Palmer coming on for Scott was the obvious swap. Palmer, at least, can successfully play passes to a team mate. Then there is COD, who totally went missing 2nd half (good 1st half) replace him with Benarous at the same time and we would have had fresh impetus and someone to carry the ball to the opposition's box. If Wells is to come on it needed to be for Martin. For me get the use of the subs right yesterday and we win the game.

 

[RedM]

54 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

This is the problem Dave. What guarantees would a new manager bring? This squad is abysmal and our worst since we’ve been in the champ for me. However does that excuse NP? 

I see a lot of people on here calling for Ryan Lowe, an unproven manager, who is doing a great job at Plymouth but under totally different circumstances. Slightly different scenario but 99% of the fan base were up in arms employing an unproven manager at this level in Holden. Granted he hasn’t had the exposure or experience Lowe has, but would this type of move yet again show a complete lack of leadership and plan from SL?

I think people were critical about the appointment of Holden not because of Holden himself but they felt it would be more a continuation of the LJ situation which had gone stale. 

I too thought we needed an experienced head to take us forward, but Pearson like his players doesn’t seem overly motivated to me. Maybe his hands are tied too tightly but something doesn’t seem right or comfortable to me.

Unfortunately he has missed several games through illness which must be unhelpful and unsettling to both him and the team. Going forward the club needs to clarify if possible if this is likely to reoccur and do the best thing for him and the club. Football is a results driven business and has the harshness that attracts, we can’t carry any passengers unfortunately. And judging by the fans reactions yesterday they aren’t going to take much more either.

[Oh Louie louie]

He knew the size of the job here, make no mistake about that.

Thats why he asked for so many windows.

Somebody else, pointed out on here, theres a good chance he was misled by sl.

He must of been shocked we couldnt get a striker in.

I think he asked for was it 3 or 4 windows for us to challenge?

By xmas he would be half way there?

 

[CyderInACan]

16 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

going to Ashton Gate is literally no longer enjoyable

I was there yesterday. It was a cracking afternoon of rugby!

[Jacki]

25 minutes ago, super slick said:

From my very limited ITK-ness, Nigel Pearson is running every single aspect of the football side. He’s essentially manager and Director of Football.

With his continuing health issues, I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point this season he moves upstairs and a young head coach comes in. 
They were very keen on Russel Martin when Holden got the boot but obviously thought experience was needed.

I was just about to post very similar.

I’m not ITK at all and wouldn’t pretend to be. But, from the outside looking in, Pearson is the only person we have on the football side of the club with the slightest idea of what is required to be successful in the Championship. We have a load of either inexperienced or youth coaches underneath him, no Director of Football, and a board of directors who gave the keys to the kingdom to an absolute charlatan for about 4 years based on the fact that he was once a goalkeeper for West Brom. Then there was @Harry thread a week or two back about the complete lack of a recruitment department. There is NO footballing expertise at the top end of the club whatsoever. We’re relying on Pearson, from what little I can see, to do it all. Maybe, with his health problems and all, the answer would be for him to move ‘upstairs’ and let a younger coach or manager take the team.

I was there yesterday and I totally understand the anger, frustration and fury that everyone felt at the end of the game. I felt exactly the same. I’ll go against the grain here and say that I actually thought we played pretty well I the first half, and when we went 2-1 up I felt genuinely optimistic we’d get it done. What happened afterwards was completely unacceptable and utterly deflating.

Make no mistake though, this club is in an absolute mess. We seem to me to be rudderless at first team and U23 level in almost every way. Bringing in someone like Ryan Lowe, who pretty much nobody wanted before he won a few games at the start of this season, would really not be the answer in my opinion unless it’s to report into someone as a DOF who knows the league, agents etc. We need a complete overhaul in terms of recruitment, football expertise on the board, and there appears to be no sign of that happening. And we need to try and survive in this league while we do it. It was always going the be a bumpy ride, but I think it’ll get a whole lot bumpier yet. 

[MelksRed]

What happens next?

League 1 tour

Reduced attendances

Loss of season ticket subscriptions

Loss of lucrative TV money

Less to invest in new players

Perpetual cycle 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by MelksRed

[CyderInACan]

56 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Its the turds that need replacing, not the polisher.

Bravo. This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on here!!!

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, CyderInACan said:

I was there yesterday. It was a cracking afternoon of rugby!

Forgive my lack of enthusiasm but a rugby club that has been at the Gate 7-8 years and is now apparently getting a stand named after one of it's players in a stadium that has been a football ground for 120 years. I don't begrudge the rugby boys any success whatsoever and I'm glad that you do find something to get enthused about at the Gate because if you were relying on the football...................but everything happening with them sort of proves my point about the ownership of the football side of things that people are telling me I should be grateful about.

[Andy082005]

25 minutes ago, WirralRobin said:

Surely everyone needs to take a step back a minute....

We're 7 points clear of relegation and just 7 off the playoffs.....

Pretty much everyone on this forum at the start of the season agreed we were in for a tough season and general concensus was a mid to lower-mid table finish would be a good season setting us up to push on from there and we're what a win away from that sort of league position?

Biggest issue for me, as it has been for years, is the lack of a director of football/ sporting director setting the footballing 'vision' for the club and bringing us into the 21st century in terms of recruitment! Pretty much every successful teams at our level and the prem has one and we can't just lump part the role on Pearson, part on our data analyst and the other on our CEO and expect everything to be fine.

 

 

League position is not hugely important right now. It’s still early doors 

The issue is the mentality that is entrenched in the players at the minute 

The Forest defeat, the way we lost to Birmingham and then yesterday’s capitulation….2-1 v 10 men and still only having 40% possession???

It’s not a confidence issue. 2-1 up v 10 men, with 3000 fans getting behind you….they should have thrived then. Our issues are far greater then just confidence 

I agree with you though about our set up. The worry is SL hasn’t got it right in 20 years, I’ve no confidence he will get it right in the next few months . And even if he did, I think it may be to late to save us this year 

[Keepers Ball]

9 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I was there yesterday. It was a cracking afternoon of rugby!

Get out

[bexhill reds]

11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Get what you’re saying but you can’t just look at the table. You have to look at performances and the lack of a plan in games.  Nobody expected Pearson to make us easier to score against and for performances to get worse 

Exactly this, the performances of late have been incredibly poor, I’d argue worse than at the beginning of NP’s tenure. We only just beat Barnsley and they were by miles the better team on the day. Our league position is more to do with the shite that is around us rather than just our own abilities. I honestly can’t see what the NP regime is bringing, you occasionally see a bit of fight, but even that appears to have disappeared in the last few games. 
 

We are just over third of the way through the season, and we are relying on 2 other teams being worse than us, assuming that Derby don’t have some form of mini-resurrection. We just don’t even look like a team that can draw games, we are always going to concede, and at best we might score the odd goal ourselves. 
 

Would anyone else be able to get an immediate tune out of this lot, I’m not personally sure, if you brought in Warnock on a short term deal, he’d expect to have some players with a bit of fight but apart from one or two we’ve got nothing that fits the bill.

Maybe the analysts can come up with a “nasty bastard” algorithm in their recruitment systems in time for Jan, as we need a couple of those, forget about the ability to carry the ball from defence or if they are good human beings, this lot needs players capable of fighting for 95 minutes and making City an utterly unpleasant team to play against.

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

League position is not hugely important right now. It’s still early doors 

The issue is the mentality that is entrenched in the players at the minute 

The Forest defeat, the way we lost to Birmingham and then yesterday’s capitulation….2-1 v 10 men and still only having 40% possession???

It’s not a confidence issue. 2-1 up v 10 men, with 3000 fans getting behind you….they should have thrived then. Our issues are far greater then just confidence 

I agree with you though about our set up. The worry is SL hasn’t got it right in 20 years, I’ve no confidence he will get it right in the next few months . And even if he did, I think it may be to late to save us this year 

Yeah, you would expect pro's to be properly motivated by that.......rather than needing an old bloke on the touchline with a tracksuit on having to shout things at them.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Numero Uno

[Tinmans Love Child]

1 hour ago, Lordofthebling said:

The Pearson project just seems too far gone now. Physios to coaches, we are pot committed.

The worrying thing for me was the holden team just needed organisation and discipline. 

We seem over reliant on younger players who through no fault of their own, lack the mental toughness, the resilience and guile to see out 90 minutes of championship men's football.

We are toothless up front, too soft in midfield, disorganised in defence.

To me that was obvious from the start, maybe Pearson knew that too, as he seems genuinely agitated and almost finding this job funny. 

I'm tired of the same 'im cross  smile, i have my opinions on this squad, loooooook, adjusts glasses, empty threats and promises' for every abject performance.

Maybe the fault lies at SLs door, but its making the ashton and lj days look like heaven right now.

 

Maybe LJ and Ashton were not appreciated as much as they should have been?  I’m not a lover of either particularly, but just looking at where the club is since they’ve departed.
Everyone wanted them gone because we just missed out on the playoffs for a few years and the football was bad to watch, but we were never worried about relegation.  Reminds me of the Danny Wilson era in as much as we kept just missing out on promotion so got rid, and it took a number of years to find the cohesion again.

[BigAl&Toby]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Forgive my lack of enthusiasm but a rugby club that has been at the Gate 7-8 years and is now apparently getting a stand named after one of it's players in a stadium that has been a football ground for 120 years. I don't begrudge the rugby boys any success whatsoever and I'm glad that you do find something to get enthused about at the Gate because if you were relying on the football...................but everything happening with them sort of proves my point about the ownership of the football side of things that people are telling me I should be grateful about.

I reckon Steve will do what Steve does.

Try and keep us all happy.

Tainton Stand anyone. After Mark and Trevor?

There Steve. Skin saved. You can reward me on the other side.

[Pezo]

13 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Looking at performances and what I feel we deserved from games I feel we should be on 12 points. So as the table stands now it would be where Hull are.

For me the performances aren't really that much worse now, but the results are now matching up to those performances. We aren't really getting the luck we were.

Obviously that's just my opinion..maybe some see the games differently. We have more points than I feel our performances deserve though.

I agree, how many times 3 seasons ago did we walk away from AG with a win and us in the top 6 thinking "how is this happening, how are we doing this".

Don't get me wrong it was time for LJ to go but I've come around to what a few posters were saying on here at the time - LJ was performing miracles with that group of players. That group is now 1/2 the size, less quality and injury prone and no magician.

[LondonBristolian]

To my mind, there are two logical schools of thought:

1) The team Pearson inherited needed a massive overhaul. The board have trusted him to do that massive overhaul and now that he's started it, he should be allowed to see it through. However we need to accept that will mean short-term pain- as we have several players who are not good enough and/or don't fit how Pearson want to play and we don't have the opportunity to move them on or the resources to replace them quickly. However that overhaul will ultimately get us to a better place than where we are now. Therefore we stick with Pearson and accept it isn't going to be great until some of our higher paid players who don't fit the system reach the end of their contracts and Pearson gets the players he needs.  But, until then, we're hoping to narrowly beat the drop. 

If that's the case, Pearson stays and completes the work he has done. 

2) Whatever the merits of the current squad, we have to be pragmatic and accept that - if we cannot afford an overhaul - then now isn't the time to do that. We should focus on getting a manager who can get the best out of the players we have. That will probably keep us in the division but, if we're being honest, probably mean leaving some deeper-lying problems in the squad unaddressed for the time being and hoping we'll later be in a financial situation to achieve that overhaul. Therefore we focus on staying on the division in the meantime, with the risk that an even deeper rot sets in.

If that's the case, Pearson probably isn't the right manager and we might want to look again.

 

Personally I'm a bit torn on where we stand. The reality is that - if we want an overhaul of the club and the squad in the current economic climate - this is what that looks like. It's going to be a long and messy process. That might mean it is the wrong thing to do and we are on the wrong path for the club. But I really don't hold a lot of truck with the people who wanted the playing squad and culture overhauled post-Holden, despite knowing the financial climate we were in, and don't like what that looks like in practice. I'm starting to wonder if that overhaul was the wrong move but, if Pearson goes, the only logical appointment is someone who abandons transforming the club for now and focuses on the short-term. That too has its cost. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

Things are grim, but of the players NP has actively recruited/retained, Weimann and Tanner played yesterday, Simpson always likely to be bit part and James, King, Baker and Atkinson all injured. A few more fit (inc Williams) and think we’d look a lot more solid. FFP means we’ll lack depth to the squad so injuries will hurt us and contracts mean difficult to finish the job of moving on the dead wood. If we can manage a couple of tweaks in January, think we can survive this season, just about. Think it’s a long term project for anyone and not sure any obviously better candidates to NP who’d fancy the job. 

[intercity]

Lots of talk about managers and that makes sense; performances have worsened appreciably in the last 6 games or so. However, we are currently without:

Atkinson

Baker

James

King

Williams

Semenyo

That's a lot of core players. In the what happens next, hopefully some if not all will return to fitness and the team. Performances and results will improve.

Shambles yesterday yes, but not the end of our season either.

[One Team]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

Absolutely nothing.

Which is why we should all calm down and let him get on with it. 

I don’t see anyone else capable or even want to get us out of this mess, least of all the some of the players. 

[TV Tom]

We’re stuck with this guy because recent up to date modern ships have sailed to Swansea  and Nottingham.

[CodeRed]

57 minutes ago, aa_bcfc said:

Watford change their manager at the drop of a hat. It doesn’t seem to do them much harm. Conceding 3 goals in 45 minutes against a league 1 team last season, who were down to 10 men is truly laughable and a new low for us. Pearson has had long enough to improve results and has failed to do so. Without a change we’re in league 1 next season. 

This 

We have to act. Now.

 

 

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Maybe LJ and Ashton were not appreciated as much as they should have been?  I’m not a lover of either particularly, but just looking at where the club is since they’ve departed.
Everyone wanted them gone because we just missed out on the playoffs for a few years and the football was bad to watch, but we were never worried about relegation.  Reminds me of the Danny Wilson era in as much as we kept just missing out on promotion so got rid, and it took a number of years to find the cohesion again.

I think - given his role - you have to judge Mark Ashton on the long-term. And the reality is that is what is failing. We have too many poor players under contract and have failed to invest player sales into either a competitive team or players with resale value. That is squarely on Ashton's head. 

I think you have to say that Johnson maybe did better than he got credit for, given the squad of players though. I think the decline when we restarted after COVID has to also be seen in the context that both his successors have demonstrated that the sales of Pack, Webster and Brownhill have created structural problems that went way beyond Johnson's managerial ability. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Maybe LJ and Ashton were not appreciated as much as they should have been?  I’m not a lover of either particularly, but just looking at where the club is since they’ve departed.
Everyone wanted them gone because we just missed out on the playoffs for a few years and the football was bad to watch, but we were never worried about relegation.  Reminds me of the Danny Wilson era in as much as we kept just missing out on promotion so got rid, and it took a number of years to find the cohesion again.

Wow. Perhaps it is the recruitment from the pair of them and the financial management from Swiss Tony and condoned by the Owner, who couldn't wait to proclaim that the fans were ignorant, that has led to this mess? Actually, there's no perhaps about it. Apologies for stating the completely obvious.

[Oh Louie louie]

Beryl fudge stand for me.

If only we had somebody like her there now.

Whos running the club this week, steve or jon?

I sense a project coming up.

[Keepers Ball]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Forgive my lack of enthusiasm but a rugby club that has been at the Gate 7-8 years and is now apparently getting a stand named after one of it's players in a stadium that has been a football ground for 120 years. I don't begrudge the rugby boys any success whatsoever and I'm glad that you do find something to get enthused about at the Gate because if you were relying on the football...................but everything happening with them sort of proves my point about the ownership of the football side of things that people are telling me I should be grateful about.

Been arguing for years . " You should be grateful" Why? It's not free entry.

And in the meantime I'm witnessing our club being partly erased from what was our ground. 

I'm sick of this Bristol Sport. Steve Lansdowns idea and this has hampered us.

If Bristol City was wholly concentrated on,  I genuinely believe we'd be better off where we are right now and equally important, have an identity.

And to name one of our stands after a Rugby player angers me more

Edited November 7, 2021 by Keepers Ball

[Andy082005]

5 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I agree, how many times 3 seasons ago did we walk away from AG with a win and us in the top 6 thinking "how is this happening, how are we doing this".

Don't get me wrong it was time for LJ to go but I've come around to what a few posters were saying on here at the time - LJ was performing miracles with that group of players. That group is now 1/2 the size, less quality and injury prone and no magician.

LJ had some huge financial backing . Funny enough the manager before and now after him hasn’t had that