City release accounts - Ouch!

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

Still nothing from our invisible chairman? Has daddy not made him come back from wherever he's hiding yet? 

Think it’s the “Gould and Pearson show” in terms of fan communication going forward.

[eardun]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

So when do other clubs show their hand and reveal just how covid impacted they are?

It will be interesting to compare our performance against them.

Saw this on Millwall. Looks to me that they are punching above their weight given their position in the Championship. 
 

 

[Red-Robbo]

17 minutes ago, One Team said:

Much more of this @Davefevs and I will be standing and applauding your posts! 

Absolutely nailed it there!

 

Dave for CEO/tactics analyst when we get together enough dosh for the fans to buy the club.

I found £30 in an old jacket today, so I'll start the collection.  

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, eardun said:

Saw this on Millwall. Looks to me that they are punching above their weight given their position in the Championship. 
 

 

A £30m cost base versus our £60m (50% of ours)….most definitely punching!  Obviously their income is less than ours (pre-covid) but they’ve kept their costs relatively under control.  They didn’t get Billy Big-Bollax in the transfer market.  Their record transfer is about £1m, not £8m!!!

Lessons!!!

[Northern Red]

15 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

Still nothing from our invisible chairman? Has daddy not made him come back from wherever he's hiding yet? 

What do you want him to say? What is there that he could add at this point that Gould and Pearson aren't already doing between them?

[Hxj]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I use a £3m p.a. FFP allowables for things like Academy, Women’s etc, hence £9m in penultimate column

The disallowed (for FFP purposes) depreciation for the group in 2021 is now around £3 million a year, so your adjustment is probably £3 million or so a year out.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Hxj said:

The disallowed (for FFP purposes) depreciation for the group in 2021 is now around £3 million a year, so your adjustment is probably £3 million or so a year out.

Sorry, you’ve confused me…if it’s £3m p.a…isn’t £3m x 3 years equals £9m….or are you saying it should it be £12m because it’s over 4 years?  Or are you saying it’s only recently got to £3m p.a. Levels?

[Pezo]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

Our model has clearly failed, yet no one is held accountable because there is no accountability in this club or mechanisms to achieve it.

We have simply been badly run from top to bottom, but accountability must begin at the top

Old beef of mine -we need an independent full audit of the club’s management

Ask SL if anyone has been heald to account while fishes around for another couple £m down the back of the couch.

[Hxj]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Sorry, you’ve confused me

Sorry - adjustments for FFP are Non-Player Depreciation, Women's Football, Academy Football, Community activities.

The first is now £3m a year for BCHL, so your allowance of £3m a year is insufficient to cover all the costs that can be adjusted for.  So I reckon your adjustment should be £6m a year.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Hxj

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Sorry - adjustments for FFP are Non-Player Depreciation, Women's Football, Academy Football, Community activities.

The first is now £3m a year for BCHL, so your allowance of £3m a year is insufficient to cover all the costs that can be adjusted for.  So I reckon your adjustment should be £6m a year.

Wow, ok.  That’s even better then!!! Ta.

Ill add some notes to my xls.

 

[Snufflelufagus]

Do we think this announcement will have any affect on the crowd reaction/support tomorrow? I can see a few scenarios

1. Get behind the team knowing we are up against it for the long term.

2. Resentment at some of the perceived higher earners not pulling their weight.

Any others?

 

 

[Simon bristol]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Wow, ok.  That’s even better then!!! Ta.

Ill add some notes to my xls.

 

I like to think im pretty switched on, but you chaps are operating at a whole different level! Im still looking to establish how much/ if any the league allows for covid losses, and what happens in 3 years time when our 1 profitable season rolls off the back of the calculation…. Basically we need to significantly cut wages, stop buying rubbish on rediculous contracts, and get some player sales going again… 

[Kingswood Robin]

2 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

An audit to measure against what? You mention this "audit" process before but it's never entirely clear what you're looking for - maybe I'm unaware of the Ivorguy 7971 certification?

I'm not sure who would audit us either, but I think there is a case for some kind of non-executive director to say "stop, what are you doing?".

I also think the accountability point is a good one, the best run organisations live by it.  

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I like to think im pretty switched on, but you chaps are operating at a whole different level! Im still looking to establish how much/ if any the league allows for covid losses, and what happens in 3 years time when our 1 profitable season rolls off the back of the calculation…. Basically we need to significantly cut wages, stop buying rubbish on rediculous contracts, and get some player sales going again… 

If you look at my pic from the earlier post, you’ll see that this season is the last season we included the profit from 18/19.  So when those accounts come out next year, we will from that point be reporting FFP in a cycle from 19/20 (50%), 20/21 (50% the accounts just published), 21/22 (this season) and 22//23 (next season).

We have already cut wages.

We have already cut amortisation…and this will continue to get lower.

We have stopped buying players for stupid fees / wages and then not playing them.

Player sales is the hard bit in this market

[Davefevs]

[chinapig]

13 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I'm not sure who would audit us either, but I think there is a case for some kind of non-executive director to say "stop, what are you doing?".

I also think the accountability point is a good one, the best run organisations live by it.  

In an ideal world you would have a majority of non-execs. But we know Steve doesn't like being told he has got something wrong so that's a non-starter. Which pretty much leaves us with Jon holding the executive to account. Or not.

Corporate governance is one of the game's many weaknesses though.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Think it’s the “Gould and Pearson show” in terms of fan communication going forward.

Indeed. Even though neither are in any way responsible for this mess - someone else has shat the bed and they're being asked to clean up. Meanwhile, deafening silence from the man who is ultimately responsible. Would love to see Twentyman get the chance to quiz him properly but doubt our owner has the balls for that. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Merrick's Marvels

[Bristol Rob]

17 minutes ago, chinapig said:

In an ideal world you would have a majority of non-execs. But we know Steve doesn't like being told he has got something wrong so that's a non-starter. Which pretty much leaves us with Jon holding the executive to account. Or not.

Corporate governance is one of the game's many weaknesses though.

The non execs usually challenge in the interests of share holders. But seeing as the main shareholder is the decision makes would likey be a pointless exercise.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

The non execs usually challenge in the interests of share holders. But seeing as the main shareholder is the decision makes would likey be a pointless exercise.

Yes of course but for me it would be good practice to have independent voices nevertheless, especially as the main shareholder does not sit on the Board. Memento Mori and all that.

It's not as if the actions of the previous executive benefited the shareholders after all, since we are further away from the alleged objectives than before.

[The Bard]

26 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I'm not sure who would audit us either, but I think there is a case for some kind of non-executive director to say "stop, what are you doing?".

I also think the accountability point is a good one, the best run organisations live by it.  

There's no chance of that.  SL has removed all but the minimal amount of oversight (remember the attempts to enforce sale of shares?).  Our club is completely in his control.  When questioned he just says my club I'll do what I please. 

[Red-Robbo]

9 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

The non execs usually challenge in the interests of share holders. But seeing as the main shareholder is the decision makes would likey be a pointless exercise.

 

Their role would be advisory - with the aim of pushing the club forward and stopping said main shareholder haemorrhage money to no end purpose.

[chinapig]

Just now, The Bard said:

There's no chance of that.  SL has removed all but the minimal amount of oversight (remember the attempts to enforce sale of shares?).  Our club is completely in his control.  When questioned he just says my club I'll do what I please. 

I could live with him saying that (it's true after all) if he was prepared to admit he got it wrong in recent years.

He really can't talk about being sustainable then allow our costs to spiral without admitting he has made mistakes.

[Numero Uno]

28 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Indeed. Even though neither are in any way responsible for this mess - someone else has shat the bed and they're being asked to clean up. Meanwhile, deafening silence from the man who is ultimately responsible. Would love to see Twentyman get the chance to quiz him properly but doubt our owner has the balls for that. 

I wonder if the fans who want us to change Manager every 6 months will give it a rest now? Pearson is here for the long haul and if you don’t like it don’t buy a ticket - that’s where we are. By the way, if you don’t like it ask yourself how many decent managers out there would touch us with a barge pole. Answer honestly………then the penny might drop.

[Red Army 75]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

I wonder if the fans who want us to change Manager every 6 months will give it a rest now? Pearson is here for the long haul and if you don’t like it don’t buy a ticket - that’s where we are. By the way, if you don’t like it ask yourself how many decent managers out there would touch us with a barge pole. Answer honestly………then the penny might drop.

IMO we are lucky to have NP in charge of us at the moment . And refreshing to hear him talk so honestly about our situation and manage fan expectations 

[Fordy62]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I wonder if the fans who want us to change Manager every 6 months will give it a rest now? Pearson is here for the long haul and if you don’t like it don’t buy a ticket - that’s where we are. By the way, if you don’t like it ask yourself how many decent managers out there would touch us with a barge pole. Answer honestly………then the penny might drop.

You know as well as I do that the next time we’re defeated(I.e tomorrow) there’ll be a “Pearson Out” thread. And I can bet on who starts it too!

[Tin Soldier]

24 minutes ago, The Bard said:

There's no chance of that.  SL has removed all but the minimal amount of oversight (remember the attempts to enforce sale of shares?).  Our club is completely in his control.  When questioned he just says my club I'll do what I please. 

This will come back to haunt him. He is ultimately responsible for the financial mess. As a financier, he will be pretty embarrassed about this. GT will get the chance to interview him at some stage for sure. 

[The Bard]

15 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

IMO we are lucky to have NP in charge of us at the moment . And refreshing to hear him talk so honestly about our situation and manage fan expectations 

100% agree,  We are up shit creek but we have a paddle in that the person in charge is completely realistic and has the skillset to see us through the 2 to 3 years it is going to take to reset the club to be a functioning, well run Championship club.  Also happy that the CEO gets on with his job rather than using the role for his own ends.  

[The Bard]

Bears accounts released today - loss of £3.5 million.

Entirely due to Covid though...

[ExiledAjax]

46 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

The non execs usually challenge in the interests of share holders. But seeing as the main shareholder is the decision makes would likey be a pointless exercise.

It's the duty of all the directors to run the company for the benefit of the shareholders. A NED is there to provide guidance to the execs, but ultimately they all have to act for the benefit of shareholders. Ultimately Steve Lansdown can appoint who he wants as director.

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

In an ideal world you would have a majority of non-execs. But we know Steve doesn't like being told he has got something wrong so that's a non-starter. Which pretty much leaves us with Jon holding the executive to account. Or not.

Corporate governance is one of the game's many weaknesses though.

Agreed, and again, it is one of the focusses of the recent Fan Led Review report, which I know you are familiar with. Hopefully pressure is coming to force this kind of stuff through.

Again, If anyone reads this thread and thinks that it is yet another sign that reform is needed regarding the governance of football in England then please consider reading the following page of the Football Supporter's Association website, and perhaps sending the email they suggest to your MP.

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/want-to-fix-football-heres-how-you-can-change-things/

If you aren't comfortable with writing this kind of email then please feel free to DM me. I'd be more than happy to review your email or otherwise help with anyone who wants to do this.

[Pezo]

7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's the duty of all the directors to run the company for the benefit of the shareholders. A NED is there to provide guidance to the execs, but ultimately they all have to act for the benefit of shareholders. Ultimately Steve Lansdown can appoint who he wants as director.

Agreed, and again, it is one of the focusses of the recent Fan Led Review report, which I know you are familiar with. Hopefully pressure is coming to force this kind of stuff through.

Again, If anyone reads this thread and thinks that it is yet another sign that reform is needed regarding the governance of football in England then please consider reading the following page of the Football Supporter's Association website, and perhaps sending the email they suggest to your MP.

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/want-to-fix-football-heres-how-you-can-change-things/

If you aren't comfortable with writing this kind of email then please feel free to DM me. I'd be more than happy to review your email or otherwise help with anyone who wants to do this.

I find fans on boards interesting, all I see from fans is we should buy more players, speculate to accumulate, get a striker ( the most expensive position and we already have one but he's not scoring). When it falls apart the fans say why did that happen - we shouldn't have wasted money on XYZ.

Also haven't we already got a fan on the board in JL, that's worked out well.