O’Leary

[Numero Uno]

I would have rested him last night but credit to him he had his best game from a goalkeeping perspective (shots, crosses and the like, forget the distribution) since coming back in the side imo. Positive last night.

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

I would have rested him last night but credit to him he had his best game from a goalkeeping perspective (shots, crosses and the like, forget the distribution) since coming back in the side imo. Positive last night.

Can’t disagree with that although I still feel more confident with Bentley between the sticks. 

[Silvio Dante]

Hmmm.

I didn’t think he was bad, but it probably reaffirmed for me that he’s not going to be someone I’d be overly comfortable going in as first choice next season and I think he’s a notch or two below Bentley currently.

The big deal for me on Max is command and responsibility. If I look at last night, the crosses he took (two notably in the first half were hooked free kicks in from  our RHS) he collected very deep - didn’t come, waited for them to be on top of him. I then look at general positioning - when we’re up the pitch, he was pretty much glued to his 18 yard box. 
 

I commented on the O’Dowda thread (and not excusing COD) that for me when COD got caught in that awful event of not running the ball out, it was Max’s ball in the first place - but he didn’t take responsibility for it.

A good goalkeeper also keeps pushing his defence out. Everyone would say we got deeper and deeper last night - probably the deepest we got all season. That’s not solely on Max, but he should be the driver to push his defence up (put it this way, if he’s playing 10 yards out then the centre halves aren’t going to be 12 yards out).

Did he make any mistakes at face value? No. But there looks to be a clear deficiency which isn’t getting better.

 

[Super]

He didn't really have many saves to make and the ones he did were all straight forward.

[robin_unreliant]

There was one occasion near the end where the ball hit a defender and went high into the air. Max seemed to react by retreating onto his line when he could've been braver and tried to catch it. I was yelling at him to come for it.

This was only just outside the six yard box. For me that is his main weakness. He doesn't dominate in his area and I would rather see Bentley back in. 

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, billywedlock said:

So why do you think he is being chosen over Bentley then ?  You do not rate him but the manager does. Why is Nige unable to see what you do ? 

I think he’s being given a run in the team, to see if we need a new number one, and to flush out what are the good and bad points. Bentley deserved to be dropped, no questions there, and you have to give the replacement keeper a run in the team. He’s had that run, and I don’t think it’s wrong to say that he doesn’t command things - and also it’s not wrong to say that I wouldn’t be confident with him as #1 next season for that reason in the main. That’s not “not rating him”, it’s saying there is more to the game than regulation saves and catches which is what he did last night.

It’s also fair to say Bentley only returned to training on Tuesday post Covid. 
 

I’d ask, if from what you’ve seen, if you think he’s good enough from the long audition he’s had to be our number one. My answer is no, and every player has weaknesses - surely part of a forum is discussing those?!?!?

[steveybadger]

26 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Hmmm.

I didn’t think he was bad, but it probably reaffirmed for me that he’s not going to be someone I’d be overly comfortable going in as first choice next season and I think he’s a notch or two below Bentley currently.

The big deal for me on Max is command and responsibility. If I look at last night, the crosses he took (two notably in the first half were hooked free kicks in from  our RHS) he collected very deep - didn’t come, waited for them to be on top of him. I then look at general positioning - when we’re up the pitch, he was pretty much glued to his 18 yard box. 
 

I commented on the O’Dowda thread (and not excusing COD) that for me when COD got caught in that awful event of not running the ball out, it was Max’s ball in the first place - but he didn’t take responsibility for it.

A good goalkeeper also keeps pushing his defence out. Everyone would say we got deeper and deeper last night - probably the deepest we got all season. That’s not solely on Max, but he should be the driver to push his defence up (put it this way, if he’s playing 10 yards out then the centre halves aren’t going to be 12 yards out).

Did he make any mistakes at face value? No. But there looks to be a clear deficiency which isn’t getting better.

 

Don’t disagree with you but there have been numerous games this season with Bentley in goal, when we have been pushed right back?

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, steveybadger said:

Don’t disagree with you but there have been numerous games this season with Bentley in goal, when we have been pushed right back?

Plus the whole of last season!!!

[tin]

I don’t actually think Bentley’s having a great season and I haven’t seen Max make a mistake like the one Bentley made at home to Luton earlier in the season. That’s not viewed in isolation, either. 

Max did what was expected of him last night. That said, he doesn’t fill me with confidence and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Nige is in the market for a sweeper ‘keeper in the summer. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by tin

[Numero Uno]

Just now, JonDolman said:

To be fair I don't think Pearson choosing a player means they're better. Only in his opinion. Some managers would disagree. 

Or he might think there is not a lot in it and max will be here next year and Bentley will be sold so might as well play Max. Who knows.

I still think the biggest problem is our 10 outfield players defensively. Sort that out and it would make O'Leary's job a lot easier.

Might be we bring in a new experienced, hopefully bigger goalkeeper in the summer and Max has to battle with that player for a place, and likely goes back to the bench.

Certainly the way we played the three at the back last night it was noticeable that whenever we turned possession over there were massive holes for Reading to run or pass into. The fact that they are pretty shite and looked like nailed on relegation material regardless of points deductions was definitely to our advantage because I think a top 10 side would have spanked us given that space to play in. I can only put it down to Massengo going off meant that areas that should have been plugged were not getting plugged. I thought Williams was a real mixed bag last night but totally understandable when you consider his lack of game time. I'm also hoping that win gives us a bit of confidence back and we can return to Cardiff, Luton and Preston-like performances sooner rather than later.

[ashton_fan]

I think Nige wants to give Max a chance. He has to sell at least one in the summer who'll get a few millions in and he'd rather sell Bents than Massengo , Scott or Semenyo. Having said that if Bents isn't in the side his transfer value will be going down, we might still get £2-3M for him. Max has all the attributes of a good keeper he just need the mental confidence to come out for balls around the 6-yard box, his distribution is better than Bents but he's got to be a bit braver. Having Klose in front of him might help. 

[bcfc01]

50 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

There was one occasion near the end where the ball hit a defender and went high into the air. Max seemed to react by retreating onto his line when he could've been braver and tried to catch it. I was yelling at him to come for it.

This was only just outside the six yard box. For me that is his main weakness. He doesn't dominate in his area and I would rather see Bentley back in. 

I remember that passage of play and I was also yelling at him to go for the ball, it was there for him to take it no more than three or four yards out.

But he stayed on his line.

I don't remember Max having to make a save other than those straight at him, but he did what he had to do and had a good game other than the above and I'm not sure Bentley would have done anything differently.

[Son of Fred]

49 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

He doesn't dominate in his area and I would rather see Bentley back in.

I believe Bentley is also victim to this nervous affliction ...

A weakness shared.

[Spike]

2 hours ago, One Team said:

Can’t disagree with that although I still feel more confident with Bentley between the sticks. 

For a while I felt the same, I mean Bentley is definitely more experienced but for some reason I feel he's just as prone to make mistakes. The difference for me is that O'Leary is still learning and showing signs of learning from those mistakes whilst Bentley pretty much is at his peak now. I'm currently more inclined to sell Bentley and have Max step up, we certainly need money so the sale would be great if we can get what we need from it and we could end up in the long run with a better keeper. 

[GrahamC]

He was much better, came out & claimed several crosses well & made an excellent save very late on.

I’d have gone back to Bentley last night myself but he did his chances of staying in the side a lot of good.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think he’s being given a run in the team, to see if we need a new number one, and to flush out what are the good and bad points. Bentley deserved to be dropped, no questions there, and you have to give the replacement keeper a run in the team. He’s had that run, and I don’t think it’s wrong to say that he doesn’t command things - and also it’s not wrong to say that I wouldn’t be confident with him as #1 next season for that reason in the main. That’s not “not rating him”, it’s saying there is more to the game than regulation saves and catches which is what he did last night.

It’s also fair to say Bentley only returned to training on Tuesday post Covid. 
 

I’d ask, if from what you’ve seen, if you think he’s good enough from the long audition he’s had to be our number one. My answer is no, and every player has weaknesses - surely part of a forum is discussing those?!?!?

40 minutes ago, tin said:

I don’t actually think Bentley’s having a great season and I haven’t seen Max make a mistake like the one Bentley made at home to Luton earlier in the season. That’s not viewed in isolation, either. 

Max did what was expected of him last night. That said, he doesn’t fill me with confidence and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Nige is in the market for a sweeper ‘keeper in the summer. 

If we are gonna move a keeper on (assume Bentley) We should be going after Brad Collins at Barnsley. They will be relegated, he’s got 1 year left on his contract, and plays sweeper-keeper pretty well.

@Harrydid you see much of him when he was on loan from Chelsea at FGR?

[Fordy62]

I genuinely wonder what Bentley must be doing in his spare time to get the level of abuse he gets. 

He saved us many a point this season and he’s miles better than Max, yet some people have him down as making a mistake every other week. I genuinely think he’s about as good a keeper at this level as we’re ever going to have. I just can’t fathom it out. 

[RedRock]

Whether he’s acting under instruction or is playing his natural game, but he’s an incredibly low risk keeper.

That approach puts defenders under great pressure as it gives them the responsibility to defend balls that they are either not the favourites to win or where they are placed under great pressure by the opposition players.

Personally, I like commanding keepers who wipe out anything in their way as they play the ball. This may be an old school approach now though with a tendency for smaller keepers, and American-football style blocking of space by the opposition. 

To O’Leary’s credit he was less passive last night on a few crosses, long may it continue.
 

[Major Isewater]

How many modern day keepers dominate their areas? 
Keepers used to be meaty chaps who would wipe out opponents in their absolute desire to catch the ball. The pampered forwards of this generation would get five or six penalties a game!
 

Today’s guardians seem to favour the ‘Rodney Trotter’ form ‘ lanky’ , quicker but physically less imposing . 
I think all this coincides with the lack of dominant , let’s call them Goalies .

[cockneydave]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

He was much better, came out & claimed several crosses well & made an excellent save very late on.

I’d have gone back to Bentley last night myself but he did his chances of staying in the side a lot of good.

well i hope Max is here to stay and take over the mantle of no 1 keeper. he just needs to have a bit more confidence and i think he will turn out to be a really good keeper

[Red-Robbo]

I think Bentley is a more physical keeper and there were times when we were on the back foot near the end of the game when I think Bents might've come out and claimed one or two of the loose balls bobbling about in our box.  

We also saw a few of MOL's feeble kicks again.

Max is OK, but you can't really praise him that much against a team with as toothless an attack as Reading.  I'd like to see Dan back in goal providing he's fit. 

[Silvio Dante]

18 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Max is OK, but you can't really praise him that much against a team with as toothless an attack as Reading.  I'd like to see Dan back in goal providing he's fit. 

I think that’s bottom line. I’ve not seen anyone make a case that he did anything exceptional yesterday or even exceeding base expectations - indeed there have been people pointing out (not just me) the at times poor kicking and failure to come for balls.
 

To me, and using @Davefevs scale of a 6 being earning your money, it was a high 5/low 6 out of 10 - probably just about met base expectations. That people are spinning his performance, at that level, as a positive says to me again that he probably isn’t the answer long term, much as we’d like him to be.

[Dullmoan Tone]

It’s difficult to be harsh on Bentley because he has saved many more points than he lost, however, the last minute collapse against Forest was one to forget and I do think while more commanding, because, he plays on his adrenaline he is far from a calm influence. Especially in the last minutes of a game.

Aside from last night, Max’s distribution is better and the save (albeit when offside) late on showed phenomenal reactions.

But neither are dominant on crosses, so we should presumably move on - I can’t see either getting into a top 6 team right now, which is so disappointing, as I hoped Bentley would be our new Basso not Gerkin!

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

How many modern day keepers dominate their areas? 
Keepers used to be meaty chaps who would wipe out opponents in their absolute desire to catch the ball. The pampered forwards of this generation would get five or six penalties a game!
 

Today’s guardians seem to favour the ‘Rodney Trotter’ form ‘ lanky’ , quicker but physically less imposing . 
I think all this coincides with the lack of dominant , let’s call them Goalies .

Interesting for all of his lack of height (1,2,3 Gibbo as he jumped - a long way - up to the cross bar), I never associated him with an issue of coming out for crosses. An excellent keeper in all respects from my recollection.

At a guess, similar height to Max, although arguably a little more rotund. 

[Clutton Caveman]

7 hours ago, One Team said:

Can’t disagree with that although I still feel more confident with Bentley between the sticks. 

Bentley should use this time out of the team by working on coming off the line for crosses and his distribution

Not enough to be a shot stopper any more

What could Bentley have done last night that Max didn't?

[Malago]

My view is that Max will get to the end of the season to prove he’s good enough.  If he does, the club will try to move Bentley on and use the financial slack to sign an outfield player(s).

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think that’s bottom line. I’ve not seen anyone make a case that he did anything exceptional yesterday or even exceeding base expectations - indeed there have been people pointing out (not just me) the at times poor kicking and failure to come for balls.
 

To me, and using @Davefevs scale of a 6 being earning your money, it was a high 5/low 6 out of 10 - probably just about met base expectations. That people are spinning his performance, at that level, as a positive says to me again that he probably isn’t the answer long term, much as we’d like him to be.

My scale has no highs and lows, no half marks!!!!

Twas a 6 from me.

As for the rest:

Vyner, Kalas, Klose 7s (Len Goldman style)

Dasilva 6, Massengo (n/a), Scott 7, Pring 6

Martin 5, Semenyo 7

Subs: Williams 7, O’Dowda (n/a), Cundy (n/a)

 

They look fair across the whole 90.  I bottled giving O’Dowda a mark….I usually have a 15 minute cut-off…but I raised it to 20 especially!

[bcfc01]

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My scale has no highs and lows, no half marks!!!!

Twas a 6 from me.

As for the rest:

Vyner, Kalas, Klose 7s (Len Goldman style)

Dasilva 6, Massengo (n/a), Scott 7, Pring 6

Martin 5, Semenyo 7

Subs: Williams 7, O’Dowda (n/a), Cundy (n/a)

 

They look fair across the whole 90.  I bottled giving O’Dowda a mark….I usually have a 15 minute cut-off…but I raised it to 20 especially!

Weimann ?

6 for me.

[Lew-T]

I still think Nige is trying to steer Bents away from the side in the hope of somebody coming in for him in the summer. 
 

Bents is a big asset to us but as he’s a GK, Nige can probably get away with it. Especially as Max is a decent enough back up. If Bents goes meaning we can keep Semenyo or Massengo longer than so be it.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

8 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I genuinely wonder what Bentley must be doing in his spare time to get the level of abuse he gets. 

He saved us many a point this season and he’s miles better than Max, yet some people have him down as making a mistake every other week. I genuinely think he’s about as good a keeper at this level as we’re ever going to have. I just can’t fathom it out. 

Not sure he gets that much abuse, but fair to say he gets criticised and I’d definitely be in that camp. Think it’s ambiguous between Dan and Max and in my view, neither look up to what we’d ideally like, but whether or not getting someone better is viable, not sure. A decision might need to be made around the team deliberately setting up to counteract an individual GK’s weaknesses. My starter for 10 in terms of their ‘jobs to be done’ and recent form:

shot stopping: DB better, but increasingly prone to push the ball out, rather than away

crosses/dominating box: both poor, maybe Dan slightly less poor

organising defence in front of them: both poor

sweeper-keeping: Max better in terms of both positioning (Dan very likely to be tethered to his 6 yard box when lots of space in front of him) and distribution. But not outstanding.

DB of previous seasons definitely ahead, but seems to have regressed (think maybe a similar pattern at Brentford?). If he can get back to the form he’s shown in the past, Dan being number one sounds fine and dandy, but if he can’t, think we need a new keeper. 

in fairness to both of them, it takes a few to tango and whilst maybe they’re not imbuing the defence with confidence, it’s unlikely that they’re feeling they’ve a rock solid set up in front of them. Under performance, injuries, relatively small squad, all contributing.