Critical point

[Clutton Caveman]

By and large I think that BCFC should be more than happy with the fan base for sticking with the team, not only in numbers but also in vocal support for a struggling team. I think that the fans have been boosted by seeing young players sometimes making mistakes but improving rapidly and giving 100%.

I think we will survive in the Championship this year but what about next.

I think the approach and ambition of the ownership will become obvious in the close season.

We are reading about interest in our young players.

If one is sold, perhaps that can be accepted to help balance books and take some of the money to reinforce the squad

If 2 are sold, this becomes a greater problem because we know the players we bring in will be nowhere near their ability and only a fraction of the income will be reinvested.

If we sell all 3, I, like many fans will seriously consider if I want to spend £600 per year to watch a makeshift team survive in the Championship each year. I am sure I will not be alone

Hope is the nectar of all football fans but that hope must be based on reality.

So I think this closed season will be a critical one for BCFC

[Monkeh]

All 3 will be sold sooner it later, we aren't man City

Its what you replace them with that's more important,

If selling all 3 means we concede 30 less goals a season then its better for the team,

I'm glad ma has gone as I feel in general we recruit better now all be it its been very limited

[Negan]

Really does depend on who puts what on the table. Imagine if we get 10m-12m for HNM he'd be off as we won't want to lose him on a free. I imagine Semenyo would fetch the same, 20 million is unrealistic unless he can score about 5-7 goals with similar assists before the end of the season and Alex Scott you would think would be our "big" source of income with him being 18 and English, so 15-20m would probably be enough to see him leave. If all those offers came in we'd be silly not to take it. 30-44 million in potentially which not only solves our money problems but leave us with money to re invest. Im not totally against the idea of selling them. I'll be getting a season ticket again regardless of who wears the shirt or what league we're in because im a f*****g idiot. 

[Super]

Unless the club offer some good deals ST for next season are going to be pretty low.

[phantom]

16 minutes ago, Super said:

Unless the club offer some good deals ST for next season are going to be pretty low.

Let's be honest we have been saying the same thing over a number of years now, yet the sales are still very impressive

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

Let's be honest we have been saying the same thing over a number of years now, yet the sales are still very impressive

Different thus year though, due to the cost I living sky rocketing,

People are making choices between food and heat, a season ticket is a luxury many will sacrifice this year imo

[054123]

1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I think we will survive in the Championship this year but what about next.

I think we said the same last year and yet here we are.

I think not withstanding standing big changes in the summer, season ticket sakes are going to drop.

[Super]

25 minutes ago, phantom said:

Let's be honest we have been saying the same thing over a number of years now, yet the sales are still very impressive

This year will be different with so many struggling.

[Show Me The Money!]

11 minutes ago, Super said:

This year will be different with so many struggling.

Agreed. Price of a season ticket would cover a lot of people’s yearly energy bill hikes

[Merrick's Marvels]

Couldn't care less who leaves, so long as the squad is stronger. 

Given there are questions marks over every single area of the team, that's a lot of strengthening required. 

But before any of that, our FFP position needs addressing - that alone will require departures.  

[Robbored]

Of the three Semenyo, Pring and Massengo the latter is the most sought after and will almost definitely be off this summer. Obviously if he signs a contract extension it’ll be beneficial not only for City but for HNM himself. He’d get a serious wedge as a signing on fee wherever he goes.

He’s also more easily replaced with James, Williams and King all fully fit again for next season.

I definitely wouldn’t want to see Semenyo leave this summer. Replacing a striker of his quality and potential and would be extremely difficult and would leave a huge hole in the front line.

As for Pring - another with huge potential but I’m not sure what other clubs might be interested. I’d like him stay at City for at least another full season and maximise his potential.

[Curr Avon]

17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Of the three Semenyo, Pring and Massengo the latter is the most sought after and will almost definitely be off this summer. Obviously if he signs a contract extension it’ll be beneficial not only for City but for HNM himself. He’d get a serious wedge as a signing on fee wherever he goes.

He’s also more easily replaced with James, Williams and King all fully fit again for next season.

I definitely wouldn’t want to see Semenyo leave this summer. Replacing a striker of his quality and potential and would be extremely difficult and would leave a huge hole in the front line.

As for Pring - another with huge potential but I’m not sure what other clubs might be interested. I’d like him stay at City for at least another full season and maximise his potential.

I'm sorry, but I won't believe any of this until its on the OS. So there!!!!

[marmite]

Selling our best assets might help balance the books but talk of buying better to improve the squad is rubbish. The money for Webster, Reid, Flint, Brownhill etc hasn't exactly propelled us towards promotion has it?  Time to build around our assets rather than discard them. Leave the playing side to NP and let the financial experts in our club balance the books.

[Monkeh]

16 minutes ago, marmite said:

Selling our best assets might help balance the books but talk of buying better to improve the squad is rubbish. The money for Webster, Reid, Flint, Brownhill etc hasn't exactly propelled us towards promotion has it?  Time to build around our assets rather than discard them. Leave the playing side to NP and let the financial experts in our club balance the books.

But it's impossible to build round them as the books are unbalanced and we need to sell them to balance them,

How can we build round them if there's no money to do so?

What happens when say arsenal comes in and we turn bids down, the player is then upset and half hearted, which is a further detrement to the squad

It's not as easy as just keep them and build round them, in fact it's probably impossible with the level of interest reported

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

If we sell one or two of Massengo, Scott and Semenyo for loads of money then it is not what most fans want, but everyone has a price.

That money with potential money from any of Webster, Kelly or Brownhill sell ons. If we then get the recruitment right then there's no reason why we can't still build a decent team for next season.

There's a number of teams doing better than us who have shown you don't have to spend loads to build a decent side.

We may also sell Bentley and Kalas I reckon. Hopefully we can somehow offload any of Moore, Dasilva (if not wanted), Palmer and Wells.

So might need to bring in quite a number, with Simpson and King likely to be released. Who knows with Klose and O'Dowda. Baker maybe retires.

The one bit of optimism I have is the Tanner and Atkinson signings. I rate both and hopefully we can make more like that.

I'm hoping one or two other youths can prove themselves ready by the end of the season. I think Benarous has already shown he CAN do it at this level. Even if we have only seen glimpses, he looks a very special talent.

Would be great for someone like Conway to come in and do well. Anyone who can do that before the end of the season saves us needing to make one signing.

Agree with pretty much all of that.

Other clubs are gonna be desperate to offload players on contracts that were signed pre-covid…and I imagine we, along with other clubs will need to be smart, creative.

As it stands, KP is gonna cost us £2m next year.  Assuming Nige has no intention of playing him, we have to try to reduce that “total cost”.  If we take the “strengthening a rival” out of the equation then we need to find a way to get some of that back, be that a loan with contribution to his wages, a fee and we still pay some of his wages or a free and we still pay some of his wages.  We are probably gonna have to suck it up, but not just give him away.  If someone is willing to take 50% of his wages that £0.5m we aren’t wasting.

Similar discussions will be had with Taylor Moore, although his “annual cost” is much lower, it’s still not unsubstantial.

etc, etc

1 hour ago, Super said:

Unless the club offer some good deals ST for next season are going to be pretty low.

I’m hoping to see a change here.  Surely we need to maximise the ground / food outlets etc.. that means increase footfall, therefore more tickets.

Better to sell 18k @ £200 Ave. ticket price, then 12k @ £300.

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Different thus year though, due to the cost I living sky rocketing,

People are making choices between food and heat, a season ticket is a luxury many will sacrifice this year imo

Yes, hence we need to be mindful of that with pricing too.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Other clubs are gonna be desperate to offload players on contracts that were signed pre-covid…and I imagine we, along with other clubs will need to be smart, creative.

Only one club probably have been thusfar- Stoke- £30m Impairment put down to Covid is quite something, and enables a club to offload players without a hit on disposal as such (regular Impairment or loss on disposal), even a partial wage covering is a net gain in that scenario- of course whether that will stand up to scrutiny when investigated in the medium to long term is a different matter.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

Selling our best assets might help balance the books but talk of buying better to improve the squad is rubbish. The money for Webster, Reid, Flint, Brownhill etc hasn't exactly propelled us towards promotion has it?  Time to build around our assets rather than discard them. Leave the playing side to NP and let the financial experts in our club balance the books.

Unfortunately, it's entirely possible that we will have to sell players just to stand still in FFP terms.

To put it another way, we start/go into next season below water (ie set to breach FFP in 2022/23) and there is a deficit to make up before we can even think of strengthening or rebuilding etc.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[KegCity]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Better to sell 18k @ £200 Ave. ticket price, then 12k @ £300.

 

Had that opinion for a few years now in relation to match day pricing. Surely we'd sell considerably more tickets if they weren't nearly £40 and there would be additional match day revenue at the bar/club shop?

[marmite]

24 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

But it's impossible to build round them as the books are unbalanced and we need to sell them to balance them,

How can we build round them if there's no money to do so?

What happens when say arsenal comes in and we turn bids down, the player is then upset and half hearted, which is a further detrement to the squad

It's not as easy as just keep them and build round them, in fact it's probably impossible with the level of interest reported

I agree with all that you say Monkeh but we have to try to keep them somehow and improve whats needed elsewhere.  Selling our best has always knocked us backwards and its time to try and keep the best or else whats the point?  We constantly hope that the promise lies within our youth and now, for the first time , it does.  I know we have to balance the books but there are people paid to do just that. Selling the crown jewels is the easy option and we must find another way. Players must be taught that progress with us is better than benching in the Prem. I know what you will say though. Money talks.......and until there is a level playing field, that will always be a problem.  I think I am just totally frustrated by the system.

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

Had that opinion for a few years now in relation to match day pricing. Surely we'd sell considerably more tickets if they weren't nearly £40 and there would be additional match day revenue at the bar/club shop?

It's difficult for the club though you have to have the balance between the two,

I'd be happy if it were 300 quid all round as would most,

It's not sadly and football is fast pricing out fans and especially with what's going on in the world is going to come to a head, not just with us, with all clubs

1 minute ago, marmite said:

I agree with all that you say Monkeh but we have to try to keep them somehow and improve whats needed elsewhere.  Selling our best has always knocked us backwards and its time to try and keep the best or else whats the point?  We constantly hope that the promise lies within our youth and now, for the first time , it does.  I know we have to balance the books but there are people paid to do just that. Selling the crown jewels is the easy option and we must find another way. Players must be taught that progress with us is better than benching in the Prem. I know what you will say though. Money talks.......and until there is a level playing field, that will always be a problem.  I think I am just totally frustrated by the system.

Oh I get where you are coming from and in a perfect world I'd love that,

Sadly that's not the world we live in

[marmite]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Unfortunately, it's entirely possible that we will have to sell players just to stand still in FFP terms.

I see that as exactly what will happen but what is the point then. The roundabout we are on will have us standing still forever if we dont change our approach.  The way things are means we will never compete at the highest level. The club dream seems to be "hope for the best." Selling our best will mean our best hope is to be in a relegation battle in the Prem.  What sort of dream is that?

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

The strengthening a rival thing I found a bit surprising. If that's the reason he is still here.

Might as well loan him out for financial reasons.

Might even add value if he is good. And if he is bad then it weakens a rival! He wouldn't have played against us anyway.

I guess much will have depended how much they offered.

Assuming it was a permanent transfer, if it was free and we will pay £5k p.w (City have to pay £15k p.w for 18 months)….you’d tell them to eff off wouldn’t you?

Thats the bit we don’t know.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

29 minutes ago, marmite said:

I see that as exactly what will happen but what is the point then. The roundabout we are on will have us standing still forever if we dont change our approach.  The way things are means we will never compete at the highest level. The club dream seems to be "hope for the best." Selling our best will mean our best hope is to be in a relegation battle in the Prem.  What sort of dream is that?

I'd love to keep the big 3 in particular- Massengo, Scott and Semenyo for some time to come. Add Pring, I also think DaSilva shouldn't be given up on yet given his age and the fact he now seems to be hopefully over his two long term injuries and improving again- there is plenty to be positive about but for the finances- there are others of course, a notch or two down but of the right age profile. We have a decent number of outfield players aged 25 or under which to me is quite encouraging.

I totally get what you are saying though, but I think if we can somehow weather the storms of the next 18 months, then summer 2023 could be the time to rebuild better- with as many of those who we want to keep as possible hopefully.

Tanner and Atkinson too of course- they're 22, 23 and should only get better- notch or two down age wise, Towler, Benarous- isn't Williams also only 24-25?

Edited February 16, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[marmite]

We could balance the books with a hefty residue if we sell our top players, Massengo, Scott, Semenyo, Pring, Benarous, possibly raising as much as 70 million plus for the lot but next year we will be fighting a relegation battle to stay out of League 1. We have to change our approach and ambition. Summer 2023 could see few of the present squad remaining unless we become more ambitious.

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd love to keep the big 3 in particular- Massengo, Scott and Semenyo for some time to come. Add Pring, I also think DaSilva shouldn't be given up on yet given his age and the fact he now seems to be hopefully over his two long term injuries and improving again- there is plenty to be positive about but for the finances- there are others of course, a notch or two down but of the right age profile. We have a decent number of outfield players aged 25 or under which to me is quite encouraging.

I totally get what you are saying though, but I think if we can somehow weather the storms of the next 18 months, then summer 2023 could be the time to rebuild better- with as many of those who we want to keep as possible hopefully.

I hope that come summer 2023 we have a core of players in the prime age bracket of 26 - 30.

Looking at our current squad this could include (age in Aug 23 in brackets):

• Kalas (30)
• Bentley (30)
• Williams (26);
• Cundy (26); and
• Vyner (26)

It's a pitifully small number of players, although I have assumed that Palmer, COD, and O'Leary will leave sometime between now and then, but if they don't then they would all be 26 or 27 at that point.

So, there are gaps there that will need to be filled. Firstly, a striker. It's not a priority position right now, but WSM will be 32, 23, and 34 respectively, and it's perfectly possible that all 3 will have left. Wells would be 33 as an aside. So we are going to need to find a striker born in 1996 - 1998 to come in and be the lead guy for a promotion push. That is a bloody hard person to find at a good price.

Secondly, a second midfielder to assist Williams. Massengo and Scott have done well, and Benarous is a talent, but if we seriously want to pitch for top 6 in 23/24 then we need someone in midfield to replace James (who will be 32). If we don't then we leave ourselves open to the ravages of injury and poor form.

Defence is the best stocked area of the pitch if just looking at age. In addition to those listed above we would have Atkinson, Dasilva, and Pring all aged 25. So for me personally I'd say that defenders are our most saleable stock right now. That's annoying as they tend to go for less £, but it's also the area that currently needs the biggest improvement so maybe some churn is needed in that area.

 

 

[Sir Geoff]

I think we have to be realistic in what fees (if any) we would accept for our crown jewels. Premier League clubs are reluctant to splash the cash on unproven players at that level. Eze left QPR for £16m rising to £20m so I am guessing that would be the benchmark for Semenyo. Semenyo has played fewer games and scored fewer goals than Eze at this stage of his career. Plus you have to factor in co vid (clubs don't have so much cash to take punts) and the new rules about the number of players a club can loan out. I suspect Bereton Diaz will go to the premier League in the summer for a fee of approx £25m. If that is the case then Semenyo is worth nowhere near the £20m people are talking about on here.

I would be very surprised if we are offered more than £10m plus £2m add ons for Semenyo.

Massengo is a neat tidy player, but for the same reasons above (clubs can no longer hoard players). I don't see him going for much more than £5m possibly to France.

Alex Scott totally different and I think we should do everything to keep him as his value will rise sharply in the next year or two.

Hope I am proved wrong but the market is depressed and that reflects in fees paid lower down the food chain.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I think we have to be realistic in what fees (if any) we would accept for our crown jewels. Premier League clubs are reluctant to splash the cash on unproven players at that level. Eze left QPR for £16m rising to £20m so I am guessing that would be the benchmark for Semenyo. Semenyo has played fewer games and scored fewer goals than Eze at this stage of his career. Plus you have to factor in co vid (clubs don't have so much cash to take punts) and the new rules about the number of players a club can loan out. I suspect Bereton Diaz will go to the premier League in the summer for a fee of approx £25m. If that is the case then Semenyo is worth nowhere near the £20m people are talking about on here.

I would be very surprised if we are offered more than £10m plus £2m add ons for Semenyo.

Massengo is a neat tidy player, but for the same reasons above (clubs can no longer hoard players). I don't see him going for much more than £5m possibly to France.

Alex Scott totally different and I think we should do everything to keep him as his value will rise sharply in the next year or two.

Hope I am proved wrong but the market is depressed and that reflects in fees paid lower down the food chain.

And at those level of bids I think we will turn them down.  If we can turn down £8m in the summer, when Massengo wasn’t as established as he is now, then we aren’t desperate to sell imho….we will find other ways to fill the FFP gap.

[Bris Red]

3 hours ago, marmite said:

Selling our best assets might help balance the books but talk of buying better to improve the squad is rubbish. The money for Webster, Reid, Flint, Brownhill etc hasn't exactly propelled us towards promotion has it?  Time to build around our assets rather than discard them. Leave the playing side to NP and let the financial experts in our club balance the books.

I trust Pearson and his team to spend the money a lot more wisely than LJ and the car salesman did though.

I genuinely am of the opinion in the correct hands the money we received for Webster, Reid, Flint Brownhill etc would and should have propelled us to promotion or at least a shot at the play offs.

Let’s not judge Nige and his team on the horrendous standards of the previous regime. We have already seen in the signings of Atkinson and Tanner what Nige is about in the transfer market. He clearly has an eye for a player.

Edited February 16, 2022 by bris red

[steviestevieneville]

I think we have to be realistic. We obviously want to keep all three. There’ll be two deciding factors though imo. If any of the players say they want to leave  & wont sign a new deal or any club puts in offers of silly money. 
as I said we want to keep all three , but if it allowed us to strengthen the squad all over without much of a drop off in standard from 1-25 , solve ffp & give us a profit then the pros would outweigh the cons imo. Although we’d probably have to get in £50m for the three lads to do that. 

[marmite]

1 hour ago, bris red said:

I trust Pearson and his team to spend the money a lot more wisely than LJ and the car salesman did though.

I genuinely am of the opinion in the correct hands the money we received for Webster, Reid, Flint Brownhill etc would and should have propelled us to promotion or at least a shot at the play offs.

Let’s not judge Nige and his team on the horrendous standards of the previous regime. We have already seen in the signings of Atkinson and Tanner what Nige is about in the transfer market. He clearly has an eye for a player.

I agree that Nige will have a better eye for the right player and I would trust him to find the right blend. My worry is whether he will be given the funds to do so if we sale our assets just to clear the debt.