Poor Old Everton

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Arsenal have never been relegated in their history. 

That’s not correct………They were relegated in 1912……been in the top flight since 1913.

39 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Haven’t Everton played far more seasons in the top flight though?

That’s correct - I just looked it up!

[TonyTonyTony]

They still have to play Wolves, West Ham, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester & Arsenal. Penultimate game Liverpool away. They are going down.

Dele Ali in the championship - you wouldn't have said that 3 yrs ago !

[MichaelRobartes]

Hard to believe how much they've spent when you look at their squad. They have a really unfortunate habit of buying once-promising players on the way down, several of whom play in more or less the same position. 

[Kingswood Robin]

18 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

They still have to play Wolves, West Ham, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester & Arsenal. Penultimate game Liverpool away. They are going down.

Dele Ali in the championship - you wouldn't have said that 3 yrs ago !

Think you might be right. Burnleys remaining fixtures look a lot more favourable.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

I think Ted Lasso will save them and throw Leeds under the bus at the last minute to save them.  I think Burnley & Everton will squeeze through by the skin of their teeth. 

[Show Me The Money!]

They are going to have to rely heavily on there home form to get them out of this mess. Need wins against Wolves, Newcastle and possibly Man Utd.

Could come down to the last game at home to Brentford 

[pillred]

Just heard their former manager from 1977/81 Gordon Lee has died at 87 how they could have done with him this season.

Edited March 8, 2022 by pillred
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[WessexPest]

I’ve never cared for them as their fans have always acted like d***s at the Gate, most notably during an FA Cup tie in 1995.

Trip to Goodison would be good, though - would be first visit for City on league business (or any business for that matter) since 1979!

Edited March 8, 2022 by WessexPest

[Chairman Mao]

I was at Spurs last night. Everton were really dreadful, could have been 8-0. Lampard's tactics were woeful and thinking Allan or whatever his name is could cover both Kane and Son dropping deep was delusional. Also, I've not seen a player give up like Richarlson in a very long time, embarrassing. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Now reports that they could face a deduction or be charged anyway for breaching FFP/Profit and Sustainability regulations.

If you look at their losses in 2017/18, but especially 2018/19, 2019/20 and still to be released for last season they were always in the danger zone- their fans though say that they've been working with the PL, therefore risk minimal. Any charges if they arrive would be next season.

Even if they are fine to 2021, their losses surged by £98m in 2018/19 which is FFP wise the starting point to 2022.

Think their pre tax, pre allowance pre Covid osses were not far off £265m across 2017/18, 2018/19, 2019/20.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[downendcity]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Now reports that they could face a deduction or be charged anyway for breaching FFP/Profit and Sustainability regulations.

If you look at their losses in 2017/18, but especially 2018/19, 2019/20 and still to be released for last season they were always in the danger zone- their fans though say that they've been working with the PL, therefore risk minimal. Any charges of they arrive would be next season.

Even if they are fine to 2021, their losses surged by £98m in 2018/19 which is FFP the starting point to 2022.

Think their pre tax, pre allowance pre Covid osses were not far off £265m across 2017/18, 2018/19, 2019/20.

Everton relegated to the championship and subject to Mr Popodopolous's ffp inquisition?

Can't wait!

[Baba Yaga]

They got 14pts in their first 7 games but since then it's only 8pts from 18. Personally I think they will stay up but it's by no means certain. Next 2 games both at home to Wolves and Newcastle, very interested to see how they turn out. Still have to go to Burnley and Watford which look like huge games for them if they don't turn things around soon.

Financially I wonder if Usmanov was more involved with the club that he is on paper where it's Moshiri's name above the door, now Usmanov has been sanctioned I suspect they are in the shit and going down this season would be a complete disaster.

[supercidered]

On 08/03/2022 at 09:41, TonyTonyTony said:

They still have to play Wolves, West Ham, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester & Arsenal. Penultimate game Liverpool away. They are going down.

Dele Ali in the championship - you wouldn't have said that 3 yrs ago !

Dele Ali won't be playing in the Championship next season. He will be out of Everton like a shot (not one of his obviously) if they are relegated.

[SBB]

22 hours ago, Chairman Mao said:

I was at Spurs last night. Everton were really dreadful, could have been 8-0. Lampard's tactics were woeful and thinking Allan or whatever his name is could cover both Kane and Son dropping deep was delusional. Also, I've not seen a player give up like Richarlson in a very long time, embarrassing. 

You only have to look back to this time last season and much, much closer to home. 

[downendcity]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

Everton relegated to the championship and subject to Mr Popodopolous's ffp inquisition?

Can't wait!

Everton boardroom - meeting between the owner and Manager.

Owner: Well, the Spurs performance was a disaster.

FL: It was and  I can only apologise

Owner: If things don't improve, and quickly, we will be relegated, which we must avoid it at all costs, because you know what relegation would mean don't you?

FL: Me being sacked?

Owner: Possibly, but no not that.

FL: You mean the massive loss of income that would result from playing in the championship?

Owner: Well, yes, but it’s not that.

FL: You mean scrapping the new harbourside stadium?

Owner: Yes, but no it’s not that.

FL: You mean the humiliation our fans would suffer from Liverpool fans?

Owner: Yes they would , but it’s not that.

FL: You mean that European football would be even further away than it is now?

Owner: Well yes, but it’s not that.

FL: If we are relegated, then what could possibly be worse than all those issues?

Owner: Mr Popo-bloody-dopolous would start up an Everton ffp thread on the Bristol City fans forum and surely our fans have already suffered enough!

[downendcity]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Now reports that they could face a deduction or be charged anyway for breaching FFP/Profit and Sustainability regulations.

If you look at their losses in 2017/18, but especially 2018/19, 2019/20 and still to be released for last season they were always in the danger zone- their fans though say that they've been working with the PL, therefore risk minimal. Any charges if they arrive would be next season.

Even if they are fine to 2021, their losses surged by £98m in 2018/19 which is FFP wise the starting point to 2022.

Think their pre tax, pre allowance pre Covid osses were not far off £265m across 2017/18, 2018/19, 2019/20.

SJ making it sound a bit like the EFL were with Derby for too long, i.e. appeals kicking the issue into the long grass.

However, if Everton are relegated just by virtue of their points total, and are found to have breached the Prem ffp limits, can the EFL apply a points deduction at the start of next season?

[Mr Popodopolous]

24 minutes ago, downendcity said:

SJ making it sound a bit like the EFL were with Derby for too long, i.e. appeals kicking the issue into the long grass.

However, if Everton are relegated just by virtue of their points total, and are found to have breached the Prem ffp limits, can the EFL apply a points deduction at the start of next season?

Thanks, I shall have a listen- he's always a good listen.

I think the PL didn't expect anyone to breach, perhaps a bit of a loss...they had the power although I say this without having listened yet to impose some kind of budgetary limits.

The rules are joined up albeit with different limits so I would be surprised if the EFL didn't have the power to charge etc.

£105m in a 3 year period PLUS allowable costs plus the averaging plus the Covid allowances- it seems impossible to breach, how do they do it?

I would prefer a sanction first and then appeal- at EFL and PL level. UEFA too although I guess right to a fair hearing etc.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Dan Robin]

Given our luck with cup draws, our only chance to play against Toffees is their relegation.

[Merrick's Marvels]

14 minutes ago, Dan Robin said:

Given our luck with cup draws, our only chance to play against Toffees is their relegation.

Wouldn't want them in the Cup anyway - been there, done that twice in short order, both intensely annoying afternoons. A league game at Goodison is different though, albeit you'd have to be quick to get a ticket - an over priced ticket for a seat with a crap view probably on a midweek night at a ground we seldom win at. Welcome to Goodison Park! 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Wouldn't want them in the Cup anyway - been there, done that twice in short order, both intensely annoying afternoons. A league game at Goodison is different though, albeit you'd have to be quick to get a ticket - an over priced ticket for a seat with a crap view probably on a midweek night at a ground we seldom win at. Welcome to Goodison Park! 

One in 2004 was pretty good though, under Tinnion- couldn't get a ticket to the one in 1999 under Benny and the other one was quite an intense match from what I've read, mid 1990s? Last two FA Cup, most recent one Carling Cup.

[Merrick's Marvels]

48 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One in 2004 was pretty good though, under Tinnion- couldn't get a ticket to the one in 1999 under Benny and the other one was quite an intense match from what I've read, mid 1990s? Last two FA Cup, most recent one Carling Cup.

The FA Cup home defeats were undeserved. We played as well as the opposition and deserved a replay on both occasions. The visitors scabbed smash and grab victories in both games. As I said  intensely annoying - compounded by the fact they ran onto our pitch celebrating wildly both times. **** off! Almost as if they'd won the darn Cup there and then (they went on to do so in 95 - Joe Royle's "dogs of war" team which tells you how much football that team played, ie not a lot. Harry Catterick's School of Science they were not. Mind, having twice applied to be our manager and twice been rejected  at least once without the courtesy of a reply if memory serves, Royle probably considered that 95 result a little payback. Tinged of course with regret, given his time here as a player and the friends he continues to have here all these years later. I digress. Oi, scouse la - get off our bloody pitch y'thievin junkie tw** Yes, I'm still annoyed, 25 years later! If they're relegated I'll laugh my backside off. Literally.) 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[E.G.Red]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks, I shall have a listen- he's always a good listen.

I think the PL didn't expect anyone to breach, perhaps a bit of a loss...they had the power although I say this without having listened yet to impose some kind of budgetary limits.

The rules are joined up albeit with different limits so I would be surprised if the EFL didn't have the power to charge etc.

£105m in a 3 year period PLUS allowable costs plus the averaging plus the Covid allowances- it seems impossible to breach, how do they do it?

I would prefer a sanction first and then appeal- at EFL and PL level. UEFA too although I guess right to a fair hearing etc.

They are anticipating losses in excess of £100m for 2020-21, but with Everton it's not only COVID. According to media reports severing their links with Alisher Usmanov is likely to cost them £300m over 20 years

[Garland-sweden]

Was at Everton-West Ham 2-2 many years ago. We were going to Sheffield and see SW-City 0-1 Maynard scored. Since then I kind of like Everton. Prefer Everton, not Liverpool. They got serious problems this season and can be in Championship next season. As long as I remember They have always played in first division or PL. Remember their stadium was old but I liked it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 09/03/2022 at 18:25, Merrick's Marvels said:

The FA Cup home defeats were undeserved. We played as well as the opposition and deserved a replay on both occasions. The visitors scabbed smash and grab victories in both games. As I said  intensely annoying - compounded by the fact they ran onto our pitch celebrating wildly both times. **** off! Almost as if they'd won the darn Cup there and then (they went on to do so in 95 - Joe Royle's "dogs of war" team which tells you how much football that team played, ie not a lot. Harry Catterick's School of Science they were not. Mind, having twice applied to be our manager and twice been rejected  at least once without the courtesy of a reply if memory serves, Royle probably considered that 95 result a little payback. Tinged of course with regret, given his time here as a player and the friends he continues to have here all these years later. I digress. Oi, scouse la - get off our bloody pitch y'thievin junkie tw** Yes, I'm still annoyed, 25 years later! If they're relegated I'll laugh my backside off. Literally.) 

1995 was before my time in a City sense, but definitely remember highlights and radio coverage of the 1999 game- lateish goals? Deserved a replay as you say from what I recall.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

On a financial note, Jordan now thinks they are compliant- hard to say either way but it looks touch and go, let alone to 2021 as we have 3/4 of the pieces needed to make an assessment.

Limits

£105m in 3 years but what with Covid, £35m in year 1, £35m in year 2 and a combined average of £35m in years 3 and 4- that's before usual allowances and Covid costs.

https://www.goodisonnews.com/2022/03/10/simon-jordan-daily-mail-report-is-wrong-everton-will-not-face-ffp-sanctions/

Will put a spreadsheet together and post when done...it's hard to say in some respects but the losses are huge.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

On 09/03/2022 at 16:34, Dan Robin said:

Given our luck with cup draws, our only chance to play against Toffees is their relegation.

They’ll get relegated and we’ll draw them in the Cup.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On a financial note, Jordan now thinks they are compliant- hard to say either way but it looks touch and go, let alone to 2021 as we have 3/4 of the pieces needed to make an assessment.

Limits

£105m in 3 years but what with Covid, £35m in year 1, £35m in year 2 and a combined average of £35m in years 3 and 4- that's before usual allowances and Covid costs.

https://www.goodisonnews.com/2022/03/10/simon-jordan-daily-mail-report-is-wrong-everton-will-not-face-ffp-sanctions/

Will put a spreadsheet together and post when done...it's hard to say in some respects but the losses are huge.

Where do you reckon they get £68m in covid allowances in 19/20 and 20/21 from? (Rhetorical question)  companies house had a bad day with the scanner that day!!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Where do you reckon they get £68m in covid allowances in 19/20 and 20/21 from? (Rhetorical question)  companies house had a bad day with the scanner that day!!!

Was wondering that myself tbh- some of that might be deferred revenue- mentions timing differences of £25.9m so perhaps a good accounting treatment is to halve the two for that bit but controversially, they appear to have done a Stoke- mentioned it a while ago but £30m+ in Covid Impairment seems to have been possible though I cannot find the explicit reference to it being accounted for in that way.

Like to think it isn't just self-certification with Covid limits and FFP or we may as well all pack up and go home!

Found it, £26.3m in respect of Covid claimed Impairment.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Done some quick calculations and yes some are estimates albeit from reasonable sources and the odd extrapolation, some are absolute numbers.

Spreadsheet not working properly to put on here, but I make it a £10m overspend to 2020 albeit in isolation as we have no 2021 accounts yet.

That is even taking in the £67.3m in Covid costs fully and I certainly doubt it should be that!

In short, FFP allowance following all allowable and claimed Covid deductions, £105m, currently stands at £115m or so.

IF they get/edge through to 2021, by dint of an £8m P&S profit in 2017/18, then their next big issue comes with an £88m P&S loss in 2018/19 alone to the current season.

A negative swing of about £96m between Reporting Periods!!

Edited March 10, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Here's that work in progress spreadsheet.

Technically when we take what we know and extrapolate, halving the impact for Covid but awaiting last year's accounts they are compliant...just- but a big piece of the jigsaw still missing without the 2020/21 accounts. Taken in isolation (which it isn't due to Covid), they're about £10.42m over to 2020!

The academy numbers are a little bit sketchy but an article in 2019 suggested that it was surging by 80% in 2018/19, up to £4.5m, 80% rise means £2.5m in 2017/18.

For Women's Football, bit lazy but have just taken the gross expenditure for each season.

N/A for certain bits because a) I expect that they were compliant to 2018 and 2019 and b) Couldn't be bothered to go back and check further for the periods leading up to it.

Year	Revenue- £- inc. interest	Accounting Profit or Loss- £	Depreciation- £	Amortisation of grants, etc- £	Academy (est)- £	Community Spend- £	Women's Football- £	New Stadium Expenditure- £	P&S Profit or Loss- £	Covid Allowances- CLUB CLAIMED- £	Revised P&S, Covid Profit or Loss- £	3 year figure- Covid & P&S- £
2017/18	192,253,000	-13,070,000	3,968,000	38,000	2,500,000?	3,172,206	709.095	11,405,000	8,722,095	N/A	8,722,095	N/A
2018/19	190,589,000	-111,845,000	6,537,000	41,000	4,500,000?	3,601,705	1,164,537	7,236,000	-88,764,758	N/A	-88,764,758	N/A
2019/20	189,150,000	-139,863,000	6,939,000	38,000	4,500,000?	4,111,192	1,724,081	19,874,000	-102,676,727	67,300,000	-35,376,727	-115,419,390

Edited March 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous