Passive

[Barrs Court Red]

2 minutes ago, Tin Soldier said:

I get lambasted for repeating it but the Bristol Sport ideaology prevents a clear focus and direction of the football club. The whole club has a weak underbelly, too many easy rides for some players. NP has alluded to it on several occasions. Culture needs to change at the top down.

I don’t think that is necessarily true - because it hasn’t hampered Bears.  
 

When Bristol Rugby rebranded, Bears identified a clear aim, and a strategy to get there. An ethos set from the top, clear standards for the players and even a social media persona. 
 

With City everything feels like lip service. We heard plenty about “identity” and DNA over recent years but it’s not really been anything other than a sound bite, mainly because the top structure is so different - you won’t see the Bears chairman trolling fans on Twitter for instance. I guess the difference is how fans are valued and respected - Bristol Sport isn’t in that game, and wouldn’t set that standard. 

[Rob k]

5 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

I don’t think that is necessarily true - because it hasn’t hampered Bears.  
 

When Bristol Rugby rebranded, Bears identified a clear aim, and a strategy to get there. An ethos set from the top, clear standards for the players and even a social media persona. 
 

With City everything feels like lip service. We heard plenty about “identity” and DNA over recent years but it’s not really been anything other than a sound bite, mainly because the top structure is so different - you won’t see the Bears chairman trolling fans on Twitter for instance. I guess the difference is how fans are valued and respected - Bristol Sport isn’t in that game, and wouldn’t set that standard. 

Bears have got the right people in the right places

[marmite]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

SL can’t afford receiving £140m.  He’d prefer the club to lose £15-25m per year. 

You think he will make money in the Prem?  4 or 5 decent players plus scary wages and agents fees will make a big dent in 140 mil. Do you think many Prem clubs make a profit?

SL said when we got to the Championship that he was surprised at players fees and wage demands. If he thought that was scary,   well, watch out!!

[firstdivision]

3 hours ago, Gazred said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bwm21c

45 mins onwards for the juicy bits!

The interviewer completely misses the chance to ask the obvious follow-up question about the club being passive: ‘that’s quite a statement. Can you explain more?’

Makes the mistake of not listening to NP’s answer.

[Pezo]

5 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

The interviewer completely misses the chance to ask the obvious follow-up question about the club being passive: ‘that’s quite a statement. Can you explain more?’

Makes the mistake of not listening to NP’s answer.

While I agree it's not investigative journalism it's a mouth piece.

[firstdivision]

Just now, Pezo said:

While I agree it's not investigative journalism it's a mouth piece.

Sorry,  I don’t understand that reply. 
The interview was on Radio Bristol. Not the club’s Twitter feed. 

[And Its Smith]

40 minutes ago, marmite said:

You think he will make money in the Prem?  4 or 5 decent players plus scary wages and agents fees will make a big dent in 140 mil. Do you think many Prem clubs make a profit?

SL said when we got to the Championship that he was surprised at players fees and wage demands. If he thought that was scary,   well, watch out!!

More chance of making profit with being a premier league club. Pretty bloody obvious really.  Look at Norwich, Burnley, Huddersfield. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by And Its Smith

[Pezo]

14 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

Sorry,  I don’t understand that reply. 
The interview was on Radio Bristol. Not the club’s Twitter feed. 

But it's always very gentle, it's not like he's on sounds of the city and they have an hour to unpack everything he says.

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

You think he will make money in the Prem?  4 or 5 decent players plus scary wages and agents fees will make a big dent in 140 mil. Do you think many Prem clubs make a profit?

SL said when we got to the Championship that he was surprised at players fees and wage demands. If he thought that was scary,   well, watch out!!

Pretty weird take. We lost 40m in one season with no tv money. We could treble that in the prem and be up 20-30m. In a crude way means treble all wages and we’d still turn a profit. So the likes of Palmer, Kalas, Bentley and Dasilva would be in the 50-75k range per week. We wouldn’t be paying anything close to that imo. We’d be in the 30-40k range if we went up for a handful of players plus increases for some here. SL would make plenty for the first time 

[RedRock]

Yes, we’ve reached a cross-roads.

For those referring to The Bears and The Flyers, both those teams are failing this season, both prone to the ‘snatching defeat from the jaws of victory’ syndrome.

Do I blame the owners for the lack of ‘killing instinct’, the absence of a ruthless streak that seemingly pervades the ethos of not just Bristol City, but the entire Bristol Sport empire. Um, without doubt an organisation takes on the characteristics of the leader. Our leader(s) are mostly absent and are ‘good people’. So there could be some merit in that argument.

However, there are plenty of absent and some ‘good people’ owners in the Premiership and Championship. So I wouldn’t use that as a strong argument to base our the Club’s failings on. Possibly a ‘bit unhelpful’ would be the strongest weight I’d place on that argument. 

Without doubt the Lansdown’s have made big mistakes in appointments and became meddlers in the running of the football side of the Club. I think they’ve recognised those past mistakes and have backed off ‘day to day’ dealings and meddling with the football-side of the Club. So while in the past blame could be laid at their door, much less so now. 

Seems to me the Lansdown’s have told the CEO and Manager ‘right, you have some of the best infrastructure -the HPC, the Academy, the Stadium - in the Championship, you’ve a free reign on appointing your own coaches, fitness, medic staff and players (can you believe the Lansdown’s thought Simpson was a good idea!) you now set the culture, the standards and go and deliver’.

OK we’re broke - like many other Clubs - and had a squad not ‘fit for purpose’. Granted then there were/are constraints, but many of our competitors are operating in a similar or worse environment.

Pearson has had, what 12+ months to progress ‘his’ project. I was, and remain a supporter, however I am beginning to waver. Ok, we don’t hear what’s going on between the owners and manager and their could have been a series of legitimate ‘triggers’ to yesterday’s comments. It did, seem, however to be a case of deflecting the blame. Not a good look in the circumstances for me.

After 12 months, I would - as a minimum - be expecting a manager to have evolved a team to have a ‘winning mentality’ culture, to have some leaders, to be fit, powerful, athletic. To have a plan, shape, identity.

We’re a shambles. It is a managers responsibility to set the culture, standards, install belief, develop a plan and strategy. These are basics and we, seemingly, are miles off. Indeed, little further forward than when Pearson took over, despite his signings both on and off the pitch - none of whom of which have seemed to have ‘added value’ which, for me, is probably the greatest disappointment of his reign to date.

Worrying times indeed. A time to be for the Club to be united, not fractured. 

[Sir Geoff]

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

More chance of making profit with being a premier league club. Pretty bloody obvious really.  Look at Norwich, Burnley, Huddersfield. 

Burnley are in massive debt. The new owners saddled the club by taking loans out in the club's name to finance the purchase, ala ManUre. 

Norwich posted a 1.9 million profit this time but previous accounts were over £30 million debt.

Huddersfield last account showed over £8 million debt, suspect current accounts could be similar.

[marmite]

9 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Pretty weird take. We lost 40m in one season with no tv money. We could treble that in the prem and be up 20-30m. In a crude way means treble all wages and we’d still turn a profit. So the likes of Palmer, Kalas, Bentley and Dasilva would be in the 50-75k range per week. We wouldn’t be paying anything close to that imo. We’d be in the 30-40k range if we went up for a handful of players plus increases for some here. SL would make plenty for the first time 

It wouldn't mean just trebling the money of present players though. It would mean signing half a dozen "Webster" type players for upwards of 20 million each and paying the going rate for wages if we want to compete. 60k a week is 3 million a year per player. Do the maths. The Prem is not the pot of gold for all teams. 

Of course SL could just pocket the cash, not buy anyone, increase the current wages by 50%, and come crashing back down again. If we want to compete and stay in the Prem,( if we ever get there) , it will cost big time.

[robin for life]

After that interview, a owner with a backbone would have sacked him. He has basically said everything is not his fault, and the teams attitude isn't right and the focus of the club is wrong. Players he is paid to manager and motivate and get the best from, and players that he needs to move on. Anyone listening to that would be put off our players. 

If Lansdown had an ounce of backbone in him, by 6pm NP's P45 would have been written up. No one is bigger than the club and he has quite simply said he is. Also publicly saying things like that, what player in their right mind is gonna give their all for him. The players will be like screw you now. That interview is the beginning of the end. 

[And Its Smith]

23 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Burnley are in massive debt. The new owners saddled the club by taking loans out in the club's name to finance the purchase, ala ManUre. 

Norwich posted a 1.9 million profit this time but previous accounts were over £30 million debt.

Huddersfield last account showed over £8 million debt, suspect current accounts could be similar.

I didn’t mention debt did I? I mentioned profit. Every club is in debt. The debate is whether it’s more or less likely to make profit in the premier league. Which clearly it is. Don’t confuse profit/loss with debt 

[Rob k]

2 minutes ago, robin for life said:

After that interview, a owner with a backbone would have sacked him. He has basically said everything is not his fault, and the teams attitude isn't right and the focus of the club is wrong. Players he is paid to manager and motivate and get the best from, and players that he needs to move on. Anyone listening to that would be put off our players. 

If Lansdown had an ounce of backbone in him, by 6pm NP's P45 would have been written up. No one is bigger than the club and he has quite simply said he is. Also publicly saying things like that, what player in their right mind is gonna give their all for him. The players will be like screw you now. That interview is the beginning of the end. 

The players have been like that for 3 seasons 

[robin for life]

Just now, Rob k said:

The players have been like that for 3 seasons 

Wouldn't say three, maybe since Covid restarted.  But not three. Also I think a lot of them were excited about Houghton, or Gerard and that being touted when LJ was sacked, only for it to be a choice of Cook or Holden and Holden replaced by someone with zero personality. 

[exAtyeoMax]

Is the club waiting for investment, hence the reluctance to invest in management / recruitment infrastructure? 
Has Nige told them what is required but they are holding back until the end of the season?

I’m just trying to get an understanding of what is going on, not suggesting anything

[JoeAman08]

44 minutes ago, marmite said:

It wouldn't mean just trebling the money of present players though. It would mean signing half a dozen "Webster" type players for upwards of 20 million each and paying the going rate for wages if we want to compete. 60k a week is 3 million a year per player. Do the maths. The Prem is not the pot of gold for all teams. 

Of course SL could just pocket the cash, not buy anyone, increase the current wages by 50%, and come crashing back down again. If we want to compete and stay in the Prem,( if we ever get there) , it will cost big time.

Again just because we are promoted doesn’t need to spend 20m on 6 players. It also doesn’t mean treble everyones wages. That was an example of how much money you get for being at that level.
 

Brentford spent 33m on players from smaller leagues for the most part. I doubt any of them are on more than 40k a week. I don’t think they were paying out of this world in the championship. 

If we started turning a loss in the PL it is because of mismanagement. Which is pretty much all SL knows so maybe you are right. 

[marmite]

31 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Again just because we are promoted doesn’t need to spend 20m on 6 players. It also doesn’t mean treble everyones wages. That was an example of how much money you get for being at that level.
 

Brentford spent 33m on players from smaller leagues for the most part. I doubt any of them are on more than 40k a week. I don’t think they were paying out of this world in the championship. 

If we started turning a loss in the PL it is because of mismanagement. Which is pretty much all SL knows so maybe you are right. 

Fair point Joe. Ave wage in the Prem is 60k so that was just an example. Judging by yesterday's performance we  need at least at least 6 new players to compete in the Championship! 

My original point about SL not being able to afford the Prem, I still stand by though. Its why he is looking for additional financial input into the club. 

Prem is a long way off for this club though. Div 1 looks more likely at present.

[Calculus]

12 minutes ago, marmite said:

Fair point Joe. Ave wage in the Prem is 60k so that was just an example. Judging by yesterday's performance we  need at least at least 6 new players to compete in the Championship! 

My original point about SL not being able to afford the Prem, I still stand by though. Its why he is looking for additional financial input into the club. 

Prem is a long way off for this club though. Div 1 looks more likely at present.

Agree with all that, but why on earth should anyone put money into the club if SL is still the final decision maker? 

And, by the way, what would they by putting money in?  Just football? Just the ground? Bristol Sport? Bears? Basketball? The thing seems to be unsaleble to me as a whole and the individual sports elements uninvestable.

A gurt mess...

[NcnsBcfc]

I think these tables tell you everything about us as a team at the moment......

[Merrick's Marvels]

11 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I think these tables tell you everything about us as a team at the moment......

I'm not a great one for stats but that's a belter. 

And gets to the heart of what Pearson was alluding to yesterday. 

[eardun]

14 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I think these tables tell you everything about us as a team at the moment......

Wow. Sums up the mental frailty which Pearson clearly sees. 

[Dr Balls]

12 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I think these tables tell you everything about us as a team at the moment......

Suggests our front line of strikers is pretty good and everything behind it is not in the same league. But then a suspect midfield defensively has been a City tradition for years. I can understand Pearson’s frustration with that because it mirrors the position of most of the fans!

And it implies we are soft as a team as well as a club. The fans have come to expect us to concede the last minute equaliser and perhaps the players have too. Do we have a sports psychologist in the set up anywhere, because if so that person clearly isn’t doing their job very well!

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, marmite said:

Fair point Joe. Ave wage in the Prem is 60k so that was just an example. Judging by yesterday's performance we  need at least at least 6 new players to compete in the Championship! 

My original point about SL not being able to afford the Prem, I still stand by though. Its why he is looking for additional financial input into the club. 

Prem is a long way off for this club though. Div 1 looks more likely at present.

Agreed.
 

I’d just hope if we did go up we’d be smart about it. I’d pluck a few of the best from the championship. 1-2 foreign imports and just have a go. If it didn’t work go down with a good squad ready to go back up. Similar to norwich except eventually have a stronger squad by the 2nd time up to have a real go at staying up for a season or two at least. 

[Lew-T]

You only have to look at Jon and Steve Lansdown to see why we come across as ‘passive’ to NP. You could probably blow Jon Lansdown over, he’s so weak it’s untrue.

Steve bless him just doesn’t come across as a man with authority. All that together and you have a club like ours… Mentally weak, passive, after you etc

And it’s showing on the pitch and has done for years. Just look at the way we capitulated in that cup run season…

Bristol City have always been the same under the Lansdown’s.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Lew-T

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I think these tables tell you everything about us as a team at the moment......

Wow. I wonder what our 'scored first goal in game' stat is?

[2015]

The club is very corporate now and weak. I get the feeling that the higher ups within the club that they think of the club very highly (High Performance Centre for example). 

There is no hard working desire from within to improve and get better which is what I see from clubs like Luton, Brentford and Millwall.

Cushty life really at Bristol City and it always has been (other than when Cotterill was here). 

This doesn't change until there is a change at the very top

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 hours ago, KegCity said:

 

He’s bang on. Standards are painfully low from top to bottom. It’s absolutely criminal that the 17/18 failed to get promoted and was then allowed to be dismantled, and it was accepted because “every club sells players”.

If we were Brentford we’d have sold Toney after his first season because it’s impossible to reject a bid. 

Ffp was a factor in 2018 hence some sales would have been necessary to stand still. Final year of contract for Bryan and Reid too. Can't wish that bit away but going into the 2018/19 season we'd have doubtless had to demonstrate compliance to some extent.

That aside, to say we should have got promoted in 2017/18 is arguable but I definitely believe we should have made the playoffs given where we were at the end of 2017.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Again just because we are promoted doesn’t need to spend 20m on 6 players. It also doesn’t mean treble everyones wages. That was an example of how much money you get for being at that level.
 

Brentford spent 33m on players from smaller leagues for the most part. I doubt any of them are on more than 40k a week. I don’t think they were paying out of this world in the championship. 

If we started turning a loss in the PL it is because of mismanagement. Which is pretty much all SL knows so maybe you are right. 

Lot of clubs make losses (Profit and loss, not to be conflated with the cash position) in the PL these days, not all by any means!