Passive

[marmite]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Agreed.
 

I’d just hope if we did go up we’d be smart about it. I’d pluck a few of the best from the championship. 1-2 foreign imports and just have a go. If it didn’t work go down with a good squad ready to go back up. Similar to norwich except eventually have a stronger squad by the 2nd time up to have a real go at staying up for a season or two at least. 

Ok .The jobs yours. Just need to shift Nige out now.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ffp was a factor in 2018 hence some sales would have been necessary to stand still. Final year of contract for Bryan and Reid too. Can't wish that bit away but going into the 2018/19 season we'd have doubtless had to demonstrate compliance to some extent.

That aside, to say we should have got promoted in 2017/18 is arguable but I definitely believe we should have made the playoffs given where we were at the end of 2017.

With allowances, I don’t think FFP was an issue at all (the losses were ok)…but trying to follow the sustainable strategy was.  It was however the season we started to spend heavily, albeit followed by big sales, that then funded “excess”.

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

Ok .The jobs yours. Just need to shift Nige out now.

My ego says I could do it  Nige is right though. Even if he were to go the same problems are here. 

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

My ego says I could do it  Nige is right though. Even if he were to go the same problems are here. 

It’s simple, either the owner gives Nige (or someone else if he’s not keen on Nige) total authority to change the club mentality from top to bottom or the owner really needs to **** off after 20 years of achieving **** all outside bricks and mortar.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Numero Uno

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s simple, either the owner gives Nige (or someone else if he’s not keen on Nige) total authority to change the club mentality from top to bottom or the owner really needs to **** off after 20 years of achieving **** all outside bricks and mortar.

I agree. No point in finally getting a manager with a track record and not trusting him because you were burnt by someone you should not have trusted. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

With allowances, I don’t think FFP was an issue at all (the losses were ok)…but trying to follow the sustainable strategy was.  It was however the season we started to spend heavily, albeit followed by big sales, that then funded “excess”.

I think into 2018/19 without any sales at all we may have posted a breach albeit not a big one. Spending big started then to an extent although I associated it more with summer 2019? Happy to go back and check certainly but Maenpaa on a free then Hunt, Webster, Weimann- yes there were also loans for Kalas, DaSilva and Palmer.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Apologies Dave, think you are right. Checked back and maybe had we sold or signed nobody at all in 2018/19 our 3 year FFP loss to 2019, checked against the Loss excluding transfers, would have been £36-37m.

Otoh had we stayed down then the lack of sales would have likely created an issue to 2019/20 had we a) Stayed down and b) Lost Bryan and Reid on a free. Tight summer 2018 if we keep everyone means no Webster to sell for big cash either potentially so a lot of moving parts.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Fuber]

On 09/04/2022 at 19:04, Andy082005 said:

We really don’t need what he is doing (or not doing) 

Pearson has proved he is past it. There we’re question marks after his last couple of roles, and we can all see now why he hasn’t been given a better role 

Allardyce, Hughes, Hodgson, Pearson etc….they are all yesterday’s managers 

 

Really? He completely turned Watford around in EPL with then having been bottom and adrift, and actually gave them a bit of fight, and then inexplicably was sacked with two games to go (I.e. Fosters comments on NP).

The only job that he shouldn't have failed at was Derby on paper - but even then, him and Morris were never getting along. OH Leuven was always going to end in tears (Moyes in Spain etc).

Nige wants triers and people that fight. We only have one or two.

[Tin Soldier]

21 hours ago, Calculus said:

Agree with all that, but why on earth should anyone put money into the club if SL is still the final decision maker? 

And, by the way, what would they by putting money in?  Just football? Just the ground? Bristol Sport? Bears? Basketball? The thing seems to be unsaleble to me as a whole and the individual sports elements uninvestable.

A gurt mess...

100% correct. The whole Bristol Sport idea is doomed to fail as far as the football club goes. Been saying it for ages. Back that up with a club with a “cushty” owners attitude, no metal, weak underbelly, roll over and die player attitude, and you have what’s called Bristol City.

Fed up with it.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Tin Soldier

[The Bard]

16 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s simple, either the owner gives Nige (or someone else if he’s not keen on Nige) total authority to change the club mentality from top to bottom or the owner really needs to **** off after 20 years of achieving **** all outside bricks and mortar.

Perfectly put.  It so obvious it's painful.

[The Bard]

On 09/04/2022 at 22:05, Barrs Court Red said:

I don’t think that is necessarily true - because it hasn’t hampered Bears.  
 

When Bristol Rugby rebranded, Bears identified a clear aim, and a strategy to get there. An ethos set from the top, clear standards for the players and even a social media persona. 
 

With City everything feels like lip service. We heard plenty about “identity” and DNA over recent years but it’s not really been anything other than a sound bite, mainly because the top structure is so different - you won’t see the Bears chairman trolling fans on Twitter for instance. I guess the difference is how fans are valued and respected - Bristol Sport isn’t in that game, and wouldn’t set that standard. 

Bears is being driven by the bloke at the top who is in control. The man the Lansdowns trust because they know they know nothing about Rugby and listen to Chris Booy who does know and he told them to appoint Pat Lam.   Turn up every now and then to watch and that's about it.  There's also a nice salary cap that keeps expenditure in check and more money taken on matchdays as supporters can drink in their seats.  It probably makes a profit overall or at least doesn't haemorrhage money.

Unlike football, with which SL has been involved for 20 years, and hasn't delegated anywhere near as much control.  He thinks he knows the game.  He also knows that financially it's insane so he wants to keep financial control but this slipped recently, having let the club be 'cuckoo'ed' by a bluffer.  He used to tell him what he wanted to hear though.  Not like this Pearson chap who is beginning to remind him of that awful Cotterill that he let Keith appoint.   

 

[Calculus]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

Bears is being driven by the bloke at the top who is in control. The man the Lansdowns trust because they know they know nothing about Rugby and listen to Chris Booy who does know and he told them to appoint Pat Lam.   Turn up every now and then to watch and that's about it.  There's also a nice salary cap that keeps expenditure in check and more money taken on matchdays as supporters can drink in their seats.  It probably makes a profit overall or at least doesn't haemorrhage money.

Unlike football, with which SL has been involved for 20 years, and hasn't delegated anywhere near as much control.  He thinks he knows the game.  He also knows that financially it's insane so he wants to keep financial control but this slipped recently, having let the club be 'cuckoo'ed' by a bluffer.  He used to tell him what he wanted to hear though.  Not like this Pearson chap who is beginning to remind him of that awful Cotterill that he let Keith appoint.   

 

One of the little noticed factors has been the departure of Keith Dawe. Not a man for public displays, but quietly, sensibly and competently going about his business under the radar. When SL went to Guernsey Keith Dawe has there to keep an eye on things for Steve and be a mentor for JL. Not sure of how Keith's health is these days but think we've definitely missed him and could do with someone similar as Chairman (if not the man himself).

Edited April 11, 2022 by Calculus

[One Team]

19 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

My ego says I could do it  Nige is right though. Even if he were to go the same problems are here. 

This is the thing. Whether you still support NP or not I m pretty sure both sides of the argument would agree with his point on the problems still being there if he went.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Calculus said:

One of the little noticed factors has been the departure of Keith Dawe. Not a man for public displays, but quietly, sensibly and competently going about his business under the radar. When SL went to Guernsey Keith Dawe has there to keep an eye on things for Steve and be a mentor for JL. Not sure of how Keith's health is these days but think we've definitely missed him and could do with someone similar as Chairman (if not the man himself).

I’m sure someone will correct me with the facts if I’m wrong, but…

KD / JL in place

KD appoints Cotts (Keith Burt already in place from SOD days)

KD’s health suffering, so..

KB promoted to DoF (playing budget and recruitment under his control)

MA in unofficially

Cotts sacked

MA gets rid of KB (gradually removes scouting network too

KD steps away (end of 18/19 season - our best finish)

JL left alone with MA

The Shitas touch begins!

 

 

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, The Bard said:

Bears is being driven by the bloke at the top who is in control. The man the Lansdowns trust because they know they know nothing about Rugby and listen to Chris Booy who does know and he told them to appoint Pat Lam.   Turn up every now and then to watch and that's about it.  There's also a nice salary cap that keeps expenditure in check and more money taken on matchdays as supporters can drink in their seats.  It probably makes a profit overall or at least doesn't haemorrhage money.

Unlike football, with which SL has been involved for 20 years, and hasn't delegated anywhere near as much control.  He thinks he knows the game.  He also knows that financially it's insane so he wants to keep financial control but this slipped recently, having let the club be 'cuckoo'ed' by a bluffer.  He used to tell him what he wanted to hear though.  Not like this Pearson chap who is beginning to remind him of that awful Cotterill that he let Keith appoint.   

 

I don’t follow rugby at all (I’ve absolutely no interest) but aren’t they also in the shit financially?

Didn’t I see something last week about having to offload players because they’re failing the salary cap?

Genuinely couldn’t give a shit but an indictment of the finances of both sides from someone who made his money in this area, if true.

[Merrick's Marvels]

18 minutes ago, One Team said:

This is the thing. Whether you still support NP or not I m pretty sure both sides of the argument would agree with his point on the problems still being there if he went.

What if you disagree with the diagnosis - can we ask for a second opinion?

[Merrick's Marvels]

31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I don’t follow rugby at all (I’ve absolutely no interest) but aren’t they also in the shit financially?

Didn’t I see something last week about having to offload players because they’re failing the salary cap?

Genuinely couldn’t give a shit but an indictment of the finances of both sides from someone who made his money in this area, if true.

Not caused by the owner but an admin over-sight at CEO level, a classic clerical cock-up of the type BCFC used to specialise in, you know - forgetting to insert a sell-on clause when flogging Andy Cole, failing to put Liam Rosenior's contract offer in the post on time.

The CEO had an agreed timescale in which to notify certain players they were surplus to requirements next season. If the players didn't hear anything, their contracts were automatically extended. The CEO's office forgot all about the deadline.... thus the club have to keep players they don't want and lose ones they'd rather keep to remain within FFP (sound familiar?). Club and Head Coach subsequently issued statements that are just waffle and leave everyone none the wiser (sound familair?) 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[GrahamC]

33 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Not caused by the owner but an admin over-sight at CEO level, a classic clerical cock-up of the type BCFC used to specialise in, you know - forgetting to insert a sell-on clause when flogging Andy Cole, failing to put Liam Rosenior's contract offer in the post on time.

The CEO had an agreed timescale in which to notify certain players they were surplus to requirements next season. If the players didn't hear anything, their contracts were automatically extended. The CEO's office forgot all about the deadline.... thus the club have to keep players they don't want and lose ones they'd rather keep to remain within FFP (sound familiar?). Club and Head Coach subsequently issued statements that are just waffle and leave everyone none the wiser (sound familair?) 

Thanks- does sound like SL employing someone not good enough at his job again to me.

It was Colin Sexstone if my memory serves who was defeated by the postal system for Liam Rosenior & Andy Cole was under the regime of Sir Les Kew, I think?

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I don’t follow rugby at all (I’ve absolutely no interest) but aren’t they also in the shit financially?

Didn’t I see something last week about having to offload players because they’re failing the salary cap?

Genuinely couldn’t give a shit but an indictment of the finances of both sides from someone who made his money in this area, if true.

It's an administrative balls up akin to when we let Liam Rosenoir leave for nothing because we didn't offer him a contract, except in reverse.  6 players with options for an extra year weren't told they weren't wanted which means their extra year automatically kicked in.  This is for next year, so implication is that coach will end up with players he doesn't want and probably not have some players he'd like to either keep or sign.

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m sure someone will correct me with the facts if I’m wrong, but…

KD / JL in place

KD appoints Cotts (Keith Burt already in place from SOD days)

KD’s health suffering, so..

KB promoted to DoF (playing budget and recruitment under his control)

MA in unofficially

Cotts sacked

MA gets rid of KB (gradually removes scouting network too

KD steps away (end of 18/19 season - our best finish)

JL left alone with MA

The Shitas touch begins!

 

 

When was MA in unofficially Dave?  I know he was officially appointed around November 2015.  Was he around to ruin the deals for Lingard, Maguire and Gray?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

When was MA in unofficially Dave?  I know he was officially appointed around November 2015.  Was he around to ruin the deals for Lingard, Maguire and Gray?

No, he was initially around as consultant during McInnes’s time.

But I was referring to him coming back in December 2015, before officially being announced a couple of days after Cotts was sacked in Jan 2016.  Grim Reaper entering the building, Cotts knew he was a goner, seeing as Burt had thrown all of Ashton’s recruitment bollocks in the bin!

[Lew-T]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m sure someone will correct me with the facts if I’m wrong, but…

KD / JL in place

KD appoints Cotts (Keith Burt already in place from SOD days)

KD’s health suffering, so..

KB promoted to DoF (playing budget and recruitment under his control)

MA in unofficially

Cotts sacked

MA gets rid of KB (gradually removes scouting network too

KD steps away (end of 18/19 season - our best finish)

JL left alone with MA

The Shitas touch begins!

 

 

What a sorry state that is.

I don’t think I’ll ever get over the fact that we missed a massive opportunity in the 15/16 season. We had the right football men on board, the right players and we royally effed it.

All that momentum from the promotion wasted.

[JoeAman08]

3 hours ago, One Team said:

This is the thing. Whether you still support NP or not I m pretty sure both sides of the argument would agree with his point on the problems still being there if he went.

100% agree. I’ve said it a few times lately, the only way to give any manager a chance next season is to sell majorly this summer. If we can generate anywhere between 20-25m then there is a chance to change our fortunes. 
 

It means probably Massengo and Semenyo/Scott leaving at minimum. Possibly even Weimann coming off a career best season by far. Losing them hurts but that means we should be able to replace them. 
 

The problem of wages is still a problem that needs to be addressed on top of that. Wells, Kalas, Bentley, Dasilva and Palmer are all on too much for us still. Need to try and get rid of 2 or 3 of those. Extending a couple of them on same wages might help a bit too because of their fees. Kalas being the major one. 
 

Also, does not mean we can recruit like the last again either. Still means smart frees. Still need to pick up high potential players for smaller fees like Tanner. Just hopefully the ability to sign one or two 1-2m players on top of it. Very tricky situation no matter what. Just think our ceiling is very low until we sell off a few big assets unfortunately. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

100% agree. I’ve said it a few times lately, the only way to give any manager a chance next season is to sell majorly this summer. If we can generate anywhere between 20-25m then there is a chance to change our fortunes. 
 

It means probably Massengo and Semenyo/Scott leaving at minimum. Possibly even Weimann coming off a career best season by far. Losing them hurts but that means we should be able to replace them. 
 

The problem of wages is still a problem that needs to be addressed on top of that. Wells, Kalas, Bentley, Dasilva and Palmer are all on too much for us still. Need to try and get rid of 2 or 3 of those. Extending a couple of them on same wages might help a bit too because of their fees. Kalas being the major one. 
 

Also, does not mean we can recruit like the last again either. Still means smart frees. Still need to pick up high potential players for smaller fees like Tanner. Just hopefully the ability to sign one or two 1-2m players on top of it. Very tricky situation no matter what. Just think our ceiling is very low until we sell off a few big assets unfortunately. 

I really want us to be smart in recruitment and re-contracts, but I’m not sure that will happen….so I feel that your first para might be what we have to go with. Scary.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Passive is a good word for it. Couldn't believe how slow and I dunno just uninspired we were 1st half.

[One Team]

3 hours ago, Lew-T said:

What a sorry state that is.

I don’t think I’ll ever get over the fact that we missed a massive opportunity in the 15/16 season. We had the right football men on board, the right players and we royally effed it.

All that momentum from the promotion wasted.

Completely agree I’ve still not got over that to be honest! 

[Davefevs]

Just watching Huddersfield / Luton….the exact opposite of passive.

[The Bard]

4 hours ago, Lew-T said:

What a sorry state that is.

I don’t think I’ll ever get over the fact that we missed a massive opportunity in the 15/16 season. We had the right football men on board, the right players and we royally effed it.

All that momentum from the promotion wasted.

We did the same in 1990 Lew.   

Didn't back Joe Jordan who had a brilliant team and he left for Hearts (Scottish football was far stronger then).  We finished just outside the play offs with his assistant Lumsden in charge.  Given Warnock got Notts county promoted that season having finished below us in the 3rd Division the year before, we missed a golden opportunity.    

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just watching Huddersfield / Luton….the exact opposite of passive.

how does that happen, what do they have that we dont; that should be us fighting in the play off spots, we have the fans, we have the ground; lets be fair these are not the greatest teams in the world but they are miles ahead of us it seems.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, gl2 said:

how does that happen, what do they have that we dont; that should be us fighting in the play off spots, we have the fans, we have the ground; lets be fair these are not the greatest teams in the world but they are miles ahead of us it seems.

Imho they have a plan, a joined up club, all pulling towards executing that plan.  In Huddersfield’s case, an awareness that there might be some pain in re-setting (following relegation).  In both cases, they stuck to the plan, because they thought it was the right plan.

If SL believed in Pearson in May when he gave him a 3 year contract, it would be interesting to find out whether he still does.  If he doesn’t, is it the plan or the person he doesn’t believe in?  That’s what I’d be asking.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Davefevs