Might Pearson walk?

[RedM]

On 09/04/2022 at 22:06, Mr Chappers said:

I’m totally indifferent to Pearson and don’t care whether he stays or goes. Low expectations for next season, just hope that a few younger players develop well, as we have, potentially, a decent squad in about 2/3 years.

I would say that Pearson is indifferent towards the club and doesn’t care if he stays or goes either! It seems like we can’t afford to sack him, even if we wanted to. If we can’t afford to sack him them we can’t afford to employ someone else either.

Personally I would like to see our Manager show a little bit of emotional attachment to the club. But there is nothing. It’s just a job

We are stuck and crossing our fingers, just as he is. Only he is in a better position than Lansdown as like someone has mentioned it’s not in his (financial) interest to walk. Nobody is going to come in for him either.

However, I would be very, very surprised if he remains here to the end of his contract if he goes to the press l8ke he has too many times.

[Wiltshire robin]

15 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I really meant Brentford knew they were fishing in an overcrowded pool in West London, Chelsea, QPR & Fulham are all only a couple of miles away.

Our situation is very different, Plymouth are the only other serious club in the South West & they are nearly 120 miles away.

In theory all of the old county of Avon, Gloucestershire & Somerset should be ours.

I agree with you in theory it should be but with prem clubs set up in the Bristol area and Gloucester and even here in Wiltshire it’s still hard to compete

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

The model Brentford planned and executed was vastly different to ours.

Much myth about recruitment data, when in fact they had 100s of scouts on the ground in strategic areas like Denmark (obvious with the Ankersen connections), but French Ligue 2…and importantly able to move quickly as things like Brexit came into play, e.g. disbanding scouting in French Ligue 2 because they don’t pass work permits.

Mark Ashton pretty much disbanded scouting down to 3 people.

And they got rid of Academy, and went with a B Team model, because of the draw of London kids to PL clubs, even if Brentford picked them up at 8/9.

So it’s alright saying SL aspired to be like Brentford, but he paid lip service to how they did it…he just looked at the end result…player trading.  And boy, was that right up Ashton’s street!

Piss-poor really!

Indeed, which is kind of what I’m trying to say, but not very well!

As I see it, the starting point for Brentford (and many others) is that you buy young, unknown, lower league, fringe prem etc etc  players cheaply (because they’re young, unknown etc), make them better, and sell enough of them at the right time to make a healthy surplus and keep the virtuous circle turning. 

As opposed to other strategies such as

- reliance on a great academy to do something similar

- just splurge silly money on the very best players in the league (which is what we could afford to do when we were in L1, and what Bournemouth got away with in the Championship)

- bring in experienced players nearing the end of their careers and get the best out of their last few years (Warnock does that well)

And if you’re going to adopt that first strategy then there are various models and approaches for doing it. Brentford’s model worked, ours didn’t. Because, as you say, we didn’t do it that way. As you said the other day, we focussed on the money not the ball!

So all I’m trying to say is that we set out with a strategy of buy cheap sell high but absolutely our model was not Brentford’s. It wasn’t Reading’s either - although it was barely more successful! But the fact that ours and Readings failed doesn’t invalidate the ‘buy cheap sell high strategy as a principle because it can work, with the right model to deliver it.  

[Mr Sno]

He won't walk - his reputation had dipped and will only get worse if he quits us.

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said:

I agree with you in theory it should be but with prem clubs set up in the Bristol area and Gloucester and even here in Wiltshire it’s still hard to compete

More Bristol kids are playing for us than Chelsea or Southampton or than even get released by Chelsea and Southampton and make it elsewhere. Surely that means we have actually picked the best kids?

How many Bristol lads of the age of Scott, Bell, Conway and Benarous are making it at a higher level than us?

[redsquirrel]

if things get a lot worse,i hope he would stick two fingers up and walk. i was surprised he didnt earlier in the season with his health issues, i cant for one minute believe he needs the money.  i also think we need to do everything possible to keep him as he is fully aware of how proper football clubs are run and capable of delivering if the full staff are towing the line.

something isnt right behind the scenes, i sometimes wonder if we are selling the points

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, harrys said:

We have a far better squad than our league position and performances are showing, just maybe it’s a case that Pearson just can’t the best out of them?

We don’t, they can’t even pass the ******* ball. That’s not tactical, it’s lack of technical ability.

[redsquirrel]

8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We don’t, they can’t even pass the ******* ball. That’s not tactical, it’s lack of technical ability.

or they cant be arsed to think about what they are doing?

[Major Isewater]

10 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We don’t, they can’t even pass the ******* ball. That’s not tactical, it’s lack of technical ability.

You’re wrong it’s personality which means they can’t pass the ball , do keep up number one. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

You’re wrong it’s personality which means they can’t pass the ball , do keep up number one. 

I’ll stick with my assessment!!!!

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

or they cant be arsed to think about what they are doing?

Whatever it is it’s definitely not tactical. Zak Vyner overhit one pass on Saturday by THIRTY yards

[TV Tom]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Whatever it is it’s definitely not tactical. Zak Vyner overhit one pass on Saturday by THIRTY yards

Pack used to do that ten times a game 

[Merrick's Marvels]

4 hours ago, RedM said:

However, I would be very, very surprised if he remains here to the end of his contract if he goes to the press l8ke he has too many times.

What on earth do you mean "goes to the press"???

He's asked a question and gives an answer, often a direct answer. No giggling, no bullshit, no ego, no attempt to blow smoke up the arse of "the Lansdown family". Just unvarnished honesty, as he sees it. And yes, his attitude is that you and I can take it or leave it. So what? 

Running to the press and telling tales? Nothing to do with it. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Wiltshire robin]

56 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

More Bristol kids are playing for us than Chelsea or Southampton or than even get released by Chelsea and Southampton and make it elsewhere. Surely that means we have actually picked the best kids?

How many Bristol lads of the age of Scott, Bell, Conway and Benarous are making it at a higher level than us?

Can’t argue with that . Done well to get those you’ve mentioned 

[RedM]

8 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

What on earth do you mean "goes to the press"???

He's asked a question and gives an answer, often a direct answer. No giggling, no bullshit, no ego, no attempt to blow smoke up the arse of "the Lansdown family". Just unvarnished honesty, as he sees it. And yes, his attitude is that you and I can take it or leave it. So what? 

Running to the press and telling tales? Nothing to do with it. 

 Ok I may not have worded it great, I never wrote that he ran to the press, YOU added that in your own head. 

But my point that went over that same head was he is still speaking to the press, as it’s part of his job. I doubt he has been given given the ‘Firms’ blessing to make jabs at them. He isn’t stupid and has taken the opportunity to do so, thinly disguised as post/pre match press interviews. As I said, I doubt if this has gone unnoticed and certainly not been well received.

Clear enough?

[Waconda]

9 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

if things get a lot worse,i hope he would stick two fingers up and walk. i was surprised he didnt earlier in the season with his health issues, i cant for one minute believe he needs the money.  i also think we need to do everything possible to keep him as he is fully aware of how proper football clubs are run and capable of delivering if the full staff are towing the line.

something isnt right behind the scenes, i sometimes wonder if we are selling the points

Remember the case of the mysterious Press Conference that never was ?

[Waconda]

9 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said:

Can’t argue with that . Done well to get those you’ve mentioned 

We also take lots of kids from Cardiff and Swansea (our academy is better than theirs).

The Academy certainly isn't the problem here nor was the tens of millions we made in profit on transfers (fees only) during the LJ years. It was the way it was reinvested on cheaper versions of players that didn't work out and high salaries to mediocre ex prem players.

[SecretSam]

15 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

The two young guns leaving and the overpaid dross remaining because nobody will want them!

Perhaps we should try and use the overpaid dross? If you're in a hole, then sometimes you have to use what's available, not moan about what you can't have?

[TV Tom]

11 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

We don’t, they can’t even pass the ******* ball. That’s not tactical, it’s lack of technical ability.

Well do you not think it just MIGHT be the case that Pearson is just not capable of getting the best out of them

[italian dave]

11 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Whatever it is it’s definitely not tactical. Zak Vyner overhit one pass on Saturday by THIRTY yards

There’s a fairly fine line between overhitting a pass by thirty yards and hoofing the ball forward hopefully - something we were doing routinely on Saturday. 

[tin]

19 minutes ago, harrys said:

Well do you not think it just MIGHT be the case that Pearson is just not capable of getting the best out of them

Do you not think professional footballers should take some responsibility and pride for their own performances, if not to give 100% for the shirt then to put themselves in the shop window to move up the football pyramid? Or perhaps NP is getting the best of out of them, but they’re either shit, over the hill, or just starting their careers? 

It’s never as simple as simply saying the manager is responsible, especially when he walked into a shit storm. 

[Eddie Hitler]

Nigel Pearson is a coach and should have been slotted into the same structure as previously so that he just does the coaching and the player recruitment and contract negotiation are dealt with by an experienced DoF.

I am no fan of Mark Ashton but, massive losses aside, I think it likely that five years of Ashton / Pearson instead of Ashton / LJ would have seen us into the Premiership through having a highly experienced coach instead of a rookie.

I don't know why we were given so much information about the desired structure / five pillars only to dump the majority of the work upon one man who is then reduced to having to bring in the players he already knows even if they're not the best out there.

Nigel may well walk but if he is and then simply replaced with another name manager without the necessary support them they will also underachieve and end up walking.

I remain baffled that the club went to all the effort of developing what was to my mind a good structure, DoF and coach, and a good strategy in the five pillars only to then go: "Nah", leave them all out for the bin men, and resort to the old "hit and hope" strategy which relies upon a manager being prepared to work himself into the ground.

IIRC Terry Cooper, or his wife, even used to wash the kit.

Is that the way that this multimillion pound club is really heading? As it looks that way.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

There’s a fairly fine line between overhitting a pass by thirty yards and hoofing the ball forward hopefully - something we were doing routinely on Saturday. 

Both of which would be more akin to Downs league football than 2nd tier professional football.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, harrys said:

Well do you not think it just MIGHT be the case that Pearson is just not capable of getting the best out of them

It's not Pearsons job to teach professional footballers how to pass a football to a team mate. If they can't do the basics now as professional highly paid footballers then they are in the wrong job.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

7 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Nigel Pearson is a coach and should have been slotted into the same structure as previously so that he just does the coaching and the player recruitment and contract negotiation are dealt with by an experienced DoF.

I am no fan of Mark Ashton but, massive losses aside, I think it likely that five years of Ashton / Pearson instead of Ashton / LJ would have seen us into the Premiership through having a highly experienced coach instead of a rookie.

I don't know why we were given so much information about the desired structure / five pillars only to dump the majority of the work upon one man who is then reduced to having to bring in the players he already knows even if they're not the best out there.

Nigel may well walk but if he is and then simply replaced with another name manager without the necessary support them they will also underachieve and end up walking.

I remain baffled that the club went to all the effort of developing what was to my mind a good structure, DoF and coach, and a good strategy in the five pillars only to then go: "Nah", leave them all out for the bin men, and resort to the old "hit and hope" strategy which relies upon a manager being prepared to work himself into the ground.

IIRC Terry Cooper, or his wife, even used to wash the kit.

Is that the way that this multimillion pound club is really heading? As it looks that way.

Is he a coach though?  Isn’t that part of the problem, that he needs a better coach than we’ve got?

[italian dave]

33 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Both of which would be more akin to Downs league football than 2nd tier professional football.

Funnily enough, the comment I made to my mate during the game on Saturday was along the lines of 'never mind a poor advert for Championship football, this would be a poor advert for Downs league football'!

[italian dave]

38 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Nigel Pearson is a coach and should have been slotted into the same structure as previously so that he just does the coaching and the player recruitment and contract negotiation are dealt with by an experienced DoF.

I am no fan of Mark Ashton but, massive losses aside, I think it likely that five years of Ashton / Pearson instead of Ashton / LJ would have seen us into the Premiership through having a highly experienced coach instead of a rookie.

I don't know why we were given so much information about the desired structure / five pillars only to dump the majority of the work upon one man who is then reduced to having to bring in the players he already knows even if they're not the best out there.

Nigel may well walk but if he is and then simply replaced with another name manager without the necessary support them they will also underachieve and end up walking.

I remain baffled that the club went to all the effort of developing what was to my mind a good structure, DoF and coach, and a good strategy in the five pillars only to then go: "Nah", leave them all out for the bin men, and resort to the old "hit and hope" strategy which relies upon a manager being prepared to work himself into the ground.

IIRC Terry Cooper, or his wife, even used to wash the kit.

Is that the way that this multimillion pound club is really heading? As it looks that way.

Yes, good points. I'm not sure Ashton and Pearson would have been able to work together for 5 years mind; it would have required Ashton to have a different relationship and role to the one he seemed to have with LJ. But had that relationship come together then you may well be right. I also think, for what its worth, that if LJ had had a proper DoF - not a finance director - then we'd have at least made the play offs. 

[Eddie Hitler]

36 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Is he a coach though?  Isn’t that part of the problem, that he needs a better coach than we’ve got?

 

I thought that his coaching record was decent but that people tend to conflate coaching and management records as though they are interchangeable.

I certainly don't know enough about it to argue the point though.

[Eddie Hitler]

7 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Yes, good points. I'm not sure Ashton and Pearson would have been able to work together for 5 years mind; it would have required Ashton to have a different relationship and role to the one he seemed to have with LJ. But had that relationship come together then you may well be right. I also think, for what its worth, that if LJ had had a proper DoF - not a finance director - then we'd have at least made the play offs. 

 

Agreed.

The dream pairing would have been five years of Cotts plus a DoF; not Ashton though.

I don't have a solution now other than to do this; though FFP effectively precludes that for at least another year.

 

 

 

 

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, tin said:

Do you not think professional footballers should take some responsibility and pride for their own performances, if not to give 100% for the shirt then to put themselves in the shop window to move up the football pyramid? Or perhaps NP is getting the best of out of them, but they’re either shit, over the hill, or just starting their careers? 

It’s never as simple as simply saying the manager is responsible, especially when he walked into a shit storm. 

You'd have thought so, wouldn't you? Although we all know that however committed you want to be at work, the leadership you work under has a big bearing.

I think what gets me is where this has gone wrong since 2020 - when we finished top half for the third season running.

Of Saturday's starting XI, four were a big part of the 2020 side (Bentley, Dasilva, Wells, Weimann) and a fifth (Kalas) I'm pretty sure would have been there in place of Cundy if fit.  And then Massenngo, Vyner and Semenyo (all involved in 2020) were on the bench. So nearly half the side.

Of the other half, 3 were NP signings (Klose, Atkinson, James) and although Martin wasn't signed by NP he's very evidently a player NP rates. Then you had Williams, Scott and Cundy (see above) plus the other youngsters on the bench.

So, individually you've got almost all players who've either got the ability and personality to be part of a relatively successful side, or who've been brought in by NP - you'd hope with the right ability and personality in mind.

You might argue that the third category are the youngsters and that NP has had to include them, maybe earlier than he'd have liked, because of financial conmtratints. He could be saying that - and I think most people would probably have some sympathy with that view. But that's not what he attributes the problem to - he keeps talking about it being personality, attitude, ability.

So its hard to see where, individually, he's pointing the finger when he talks about personality and attitude. And if he's meaning collective attitude and commitment then that surely is down to the managers and coaches as much as individual players.

My hope in all this is that what's behind it is transition - that we're transitioning from one era to another, from one playing style to another, from one form of leadership to another, from one set of expectations to another. But we haven't half made it difficult for ourselves! But the worry is that we start poorly next season (which I can certainly see happening), lose our nerve, and end up being half way through one transition and about to embark on another.