Might Pearson walk?

[Redrascal2]

We have been here so many times. The one common theme to the mess which is Bristol City is Steve Lansdown.For the club to progress the question should be will Lansdown walk.  Poor choices of manager time and time again. Poor choice of CEO in Ashton . Poor oversight from him and Jon Lansdown that allowed Ashton to he working for Ipswich while pretending to be our CEO. And poor investment  in players leading to the current squad that is not fit for purpose. You can get rid of manager after manager ,which he has done, but with Lansdown picking them and running the show we are going no where but down.

[Sheltons Army]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks for the kind comments. But I’m just a football fan like many others on here. I like writing about football and debating football.

Pah....

All you do is Spreadsheets 

 

 

 

 

 

Its been said , I tell ya .... numerous times , on many threads 

......albeit by a very sad , jealous , melt 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

But he’s not the head of the metropolitan police, which is a huge organisation, he’s the manager of a football club, and when it comes to events on the field, his job is to prepare and persuade 18 footballers to give 100%.  And patently that hasn’t been happening.  I’m sorry, but in any other walk of life, the manager would take responsibility for under-performance by their staff, but all Pearson does is blame his players and make strange comments about their ‘personality’.  I don’t buy that.  If he can’t get the players to do what he wants them to do then he has failed as a manager.

He’s had over a year now, and far from seeing any improvement, yesterday we witnessed an abject, humiliating performance against a ten-man bottom side.  And what does Pearson do?  Blames the players of course.  Has he ever taken any responsibility?  And don’t give me that stuff about football being worse under O’Driscoll and McInnes: this, for me, is the worst season I can remember - and I’ve been supporting City a long time, just a series of unrelentingly depressing matches.  No wonder people are not renewing season tickets.  This season has been close to torture at times.

I would have been very happy for Pearson to have been successful, but this is a results game and the one thing he has demonstrated is an inability to motivate his players to produce results.  I can see no reason to believe that next season will be any better if he stays.

I think Nige has "failed" to inspire or cajole any more than the very bare minimum out of what is not a strong squad. In a very difficult situation, in a more difficult challenge than that faced by LJ here, he has struggled to "manage," but he has avoided the ultimate "failure" of relegation but not by much, and quite possibly due to the points reductions elsewhere.

Next season looks like another grim struggle but who knows.

 

[DaveInSA]

I do love a good manager bashing thread.

Who actually, in their right mind would come to BCFC.

We’re such a tin pot operation. Lands down is loaded, but has no idea how to run a football club and won’t admit it.

All that money, all those years. All pissed down the drain.

[Rich_s]

16 hours ago, SecretSam said:

He's had health issues, the club's a mess, no money, possible points deduction, we'll have to sell our young talents...plus fans are unhappy...will he just say "stuff this" and jack it?

He won’t walk when there’s chance of being paid to leave. I have some sympathy for the constraints he’s operating in but I can’t get away from the fact I think he’s been poor to average for an experienced manager.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

3 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

I do love a good manager bashing thread.

Who actually, in their right mind would come to BCFC.

We’re such a tin pot operation. Lands down is loaded, but has no idea how to run a football club and won’t admit it.

All that money, all those years. All pissed down the drain.

for absolutely no good reason I read this and the shadow of Tony Pulis appeared and injected a deep sense of chill through my veins

 

[Charlie BCFC]

19 hours ago, italian dave said:

Weird is absolutely the word for it.

Listened to him on RB. He talks about 'them' and 'the club' as if he's not part of it.

He's been here over a year - pretty much the average tenure of a Championship manager. You cant go on blaming everyone else for ever.

Who are the 'they' he's so critical of? The Chairman. Brian Tannin and the U23 staff. That's the implication - as well as the players. Not going to do much for morale.

All very odd

If he’s so critical about the U23 staff and Tinnion then why would he give the players a chance and bring Alex Ball in as first team coach to replace Downing and Simpson. He clearly isn’t critical of them ffs

[italian dave]

5 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

If he’s so critical about the U23 staff and Tinnion then why would he give the players a chance and bring Alex Ball in as first team coach to replace Downing and Simpson. He clearly isn’t critical of them ffs

I don’t know who or what ‘they’ are - that’s why I’m asking the question. I’m not sure he knows himself either, to be honest. 

But the whole U23 set up is part of the club strategy, designed to feed the players who’ll meet the culture and tactics that the club aspires to - so fair to assume they are part of the club that’s got it so wrong.

And, of yesterdays squad, half were either players NP signed or are younger players who’ve come through to serious squad contention during his time. I find it hard to believe he had Martin or Dasilva in mind, so it’s either a few individual players (and he certainly gave the impression it was much more fundamental than that) or he includes those he’s signed and/or those he’s brought through from the U23s. 

[Bris Red]

4 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

I do love a good manager bashing thread.

Who actually, in their right mind would come to BCFC.

We’re such a tin pot operation. Lands down is loaded, but has no idea how to run a football club and won’t admit it.

All that money, all those years. All pissed down the drain.

Indeed we are. Certainly not tinpot in terms of our facilities but facilities mean bugger all when the people running the footballing side of the club are completely inept.

You just hope Lansdown will see sense and learn from previous mistakes. I think the combo of Gould and Pearson given time will bring us success but Lansdown HAS to be patient and give them time in the same way he gave dumb and dumber plenty of time.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, bris red said:

Indeed we are. Certainly not tinpot in terms of our facilities but facilities mean bugger all when the people running the footballing side of the club are completely inept.

You just hope Lansdown will see sense and learn from previous mistakes. I think the combo of Gould and Pearson given time will bring us success but Lansdown HAS to be patient and give them time in the same way he gave dumb and dumber plenty of time.

We've turned into friggin Reading FC. That's who we remind me of...both on and off field. 

I always remember saying when we went up...that my biggest fear was becoming slap bang average in this league. Bobbing between 8th and 19th...basically boring. 

As soon as I saw a Ferrari in the players car park I knew we would become that.

Over paid and under achieving players in a comfortable environment. Found their level and happy to plod.

It was always going to happen as soon as we signed Kalas, DaSilva and Palmer. It wasn't/isn't rocket science.

 

[Offside]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

We've turned into friggin Reading FC. That's who we remind me of...both on and off field. 

I always remember saying when we went up...that my biggest fear was becoming slap bang average in this league. Bobbing between 8th and 19th...basically boring. 

As soon as I saw a Ferrari in the players car park I knew we would become that.

Over paid and under achieving players in a comfortable environment. Found their level and happy to plod.

It was always going to happen as soon as we signed Kalas, DaSilva and Palmer. It wasn't/isn't rocket science.

 

The terrible thing is that we are worse than bang average. We have been awful so many times over the last couple of seasons and our decline from play-off hopefuls to the all too familiar performance we saw on Saturday, with the financial mess we are in, is frightening. 

[Fuber]

On 09/04/2022 at 22:34, italian dave said:

My feeling is that we are at a crossroads right now. 

I think SL (or whoever) may have made the wrong appointment, and that’s in no way being critical of NP.  We all know that there the styles of play, personalities, strategic approaches that managers adopt at a club can vary enormously. The risk is that when you change managers you end up having to change everything about the club - and that takes time.
SL did that in the past and said  he’d recognised that was a mistake and that he wouldn’t do it again. But he then didn’t seem to be able to think of an option beyond the internal appointment (Holden) to achieve it. And when that failed he reverted to type and just went for a change. He didn’t do what clubs like Brentford and Swansea have done and gone for an external appointment but one who’d absolutely buy into the existing strategy. 

NP talks about the culture and the softness and the weak approach of recent years, but it’s a culture and an approach that saw us finish in the top half of the table three years running. It’s not fundamentally flawed, it’s just an approach, a culture, that’s diametrically opposed to NPs view of the game.

You’re right that he needs time to ‘fix it’, in the sense that fix means ingrain the completely different approach a culture that he sees as the right one. That’s going to involve a complete change of personnel, including potentially a complete overhaul of the academy approach too. 

My worry is that he just won’t get that time. I really can’t see (and NP said as much in the week) that we’re going to be able to afford to change much in the summer. And if we start next season with NP in charge of what’s essentially the same squad as we have now then we will be heading for relegation. I don’t think SL will countenance relegation as part of the long term plan to overhaul the club. So mid next season we risk being back in the search for another new manager and no real sense of direction in the club. 

I’m torn now between what you say, give him the time to do what he has to do (and that’s my instinctive approach every time - including like you with LJ) and a feeling that now is the time to cut and run. I’ve no idea who, or who’d come mind you! 

That was in no way sustainable, flawed, and has us in the current mess.

For every position gained on the table, we essentially smacked £4m on wage spending. If it had carried on we'd currently be in Reading's current situation.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Fuber

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

That was in no way sustainable, flawed, and has us in the current mess.

For every position gained on the table, we essentially smacked £4m on wage spending. If it had carried on we'd currently be in Reading's current situation.

Financially it would, yes. But that’s because we implemented it badly. Do it right and you end up in Brentford’s situation. 

Don’t get me wrong, I think we messed it up big time (not helped by covid of course) and I agreed with the comments NP made a few weeks ago that said as much. 

But I didn’t take NPs comments after the game on Saturday to be talking about the financial strategy. I thought that was more about our approach on the pitch, and that’s what I was really referring to.

Players who don’t play the game the way he wants to play it. Who aren’t adaptable. A lack of leadership. A lack of resilience. Soft. Whatever you want to call it. Essentially, that he doesn’t have the players he wants with the personalities he wants. Which is the position most managers are in, in most cases, for most of their tenure. And all I’m saying is that we should maybe have looked to appoint someone a year ago (ideally two years ago) who was going to be happy with the style of play and the personality that was the culture of the club. Not blaming NP for that.

And he may be right - arguable that culture and that group of personalities won’t get you beyond a 7th place. But if you’re going to criticise a club and it’s past culture, and that achieved top half of the table, then it’s probably best not to be too critical from the position of two consecutive 19th finishes (I’m assuming one, I know, but it’s a fair assumption I think). 

[italian dave]

23 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

I do love a good manager bashing thread.

Who actually, in their right mind would come to BCFC.

We’re such a tin pot operation. Lands down is loaded, but has no idea how to run a football club and won’t admit it.

All that money, all those years. All pissed down the drain.

Ha ha. Very true. But the reason they’d come is that they’ve got few better options elsewhere. Everything you’ve said, managers getting bashed, no idea how to run a business, money pissed down the drain - that’s 80% of league clubs isn’t it? 

[Red-Robbo]

On 09/04/2022 at 22:49, Davefevs said:

Was meant to be sustainable wasnt it?  That was the strap-line!

 

That always made me laugh. SL can't have studied the economics of clubs in the English Football League much before he came out with that doozy. 

[Bat Fastard]

14 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

That always made me laugh. SL can't have studied the economics of clubs in the English Football League much before he came out with that doozy. 

If you get on your knees and pray, you might be able to come up with such a mission statement.

[marmite]

I don't think Nige will walk away. I think he made the mistake of judging the book by its cover. (As did Coppell imo). Britain's 7th? largest city with a billionaire owner and a catchment area that most other teams would envy. It's surely there for the taking. What could possibly go wrong? Trouble is, something or someone is lurking beneath the  surface.  If we can eradicate that problem, then who knows?  Problem is finding and fixing the flaw, whatever it is.

[Gert Mare]

He knew it was bad when he accepted the position. As to just how bad a mess we are in might have been unknown to him at the time? I’ve never known a manager have his hands tied this much since possibly Terry Cooper?

If he was fed up and walked I wouldn’t blame him. He’s working with a poor squad who are mentally soft and he can’t change it anymore than he has tried to do with what he has and yet fans still berate him. He can lead the horse to water but he can’t make it drink.

I’m just grateful that we are likely to get another season in the Championship.

[SecretSam]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Financially it would, yes. But that’s because we implemented it badly. Do it right and you end up in Brentford’s situation. 

I don't think Brentford are a realistic benchmark. Very few clubs have done what they have; for every Brentford, there's far more Stokes, Sunderlands, Portsmouths, who have been at the top table, got their parachute payments and wasted them. 

[italian dave]

18 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I don't think Brentford are a realistic benchmark. Very few clubs have done what they have; for every Brentford, there's far more Stokes, Sunderlands, Portsmouths, who have been at the top table, got their parachute payments and wasted them. 

But they demonstrate that the model isn’t fundamentally flawed, that’s all I’m saying. Brentford don’t prove that it will always work, any more than Reading prove it can never work. 

I’m not sure whether the Stokes, Sunderland’s or Portsmouths got there using that model or just spending silly money. And I agree they’ve wasted their parachute payments but again for every Stoke there’s a Burnley and for every Sunderland there’s a West Brom. 

[Guest]

Suppose R Gould is the link between SL and NP  but surely SL will know whats been said re this summers window and how peed off NP is or not.

Will have to be pretty bad for NP to walk away will lose a decent salary for a start, but theres only so long you can bang your head against a brick wall.

Certainly wont be happy if we dont get some sort of a decent squad/team together before xmas.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

But they demonstrate that the model isn’t fundamentally flawed, that’s all I’m saying. Brentford don’t prove that it will always work, any more than Reading prove it can never work. 

I’m not sure whether the Stokes, Sunderland’s or Portsmouths got there using that model or just spending silly money. And I agree they’ve wasted their parachute payments but again for every Stoke there’s a Burnley and for every Sunderland there’s a West Brom. 

The model Brentford planned and executed was vastly different to ours.

Much myth about recruitment data, when in fact they had 100s of scouts on the ground in strategic areas like Denmark (obvious with the Ankersen connections), but French Ligue 2…and importantly able to move quickly as things like Brexit came into play, e.g. disbanding scouting in French Ligue 2 because they don’t pass work permits.

Mark Ashton pretty much disbanded scouting down to 3 people.

And they got rid of Academy, and went with a B Team model, because of the draw of London kids to PL clubs, even if Brentford picked them up at 8/9.

So it’s alright saying SL aspired to be like Brentford, but he paid lip service to how they did it…he just looked at the end result…player trading.  And boy, was that right up Ashton’s street!

Piss-poor really!

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Gert Mare said:

He knew it was bad when he accepted the position. As to just how bad a mess we are in might have been unknown to him at the time? I

He said himself that he found things to be even worse than he expected. Which would doubtless have put Steve's nose out of joint given that he told us to the end what a great job Ashton did.

Anybody who tells Steve some home truths is taking a risk but Nigel is not going to grovel like his predecessors.

So it may be a case of will he jump before he's pushed?

[AppyDAZE]

On 10/04/2022 at 10:19, Sheltons Army said:

Pah....

All you do is Spread sheets 

 

 

 

 

 

Its been said , I tell ya .... numerous times , on many threads 

......albeit by a very sad , jealous , melt 

Goes on a lot of picnics, does Dave.

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The model Brentford planned and executed was vastly different to ours.

Much myth about recruitment data, when in fact they had 100s of scouts on the ground in strategic areas like Denmark (obvious with the Ankersen connections), but French Ligue 2…and importantly able to move quickly as things like Brexit came into play, e.g. disbanding scouting in French Ligue 2 because they don’t pass work permits.

Mark Ashton pretty much disbanded scouting down to 3 people.

And they got rid of Academy, and went with a B Team model, because of the draw of London kids to PL clubs, even if Brentford picked them up at 8/9.

So it’s alright saying SL aspired to be like Brentford, but he paid lip service to how they did it…he just looked at the end result…player trading.  And boy, was that right up Ashton’s street!

Piss-poor really!

Actually it's been reported in the past that Steve didn't like Brentford's model because - wait for it .... they paid wages that were too high.

I agree you can overstate the importance of data in Brentford's model but it is an important factor and they do it much better than us.

But as you say they have extensive scouting whereas we seem to regard scouts as optional.

[GrahamC]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The model Brentford planned and executed was vastly different to ours.

Much myth about recruitment data, when in fact they had 100s of scouts on the ground in strategic areas like Denmark (obvious with the Ankersen connections), but French Ligue 2…and importantly able to move quickly as things like Brexit came into play, e.g. disbanding scouting in French Ligue 2 because they don’t pass work permits.

Mark Ashton pretty much disbanded scouting down to 3 people.

And they got rid of Academy, and went with a B Team model, because of the draw of London kids to PL clubs, even if Brentford picked them up at 8/9.

So it’s alright saying SL aspired to be like Brentford, but he paid lip service to how they did it…he just looked at the end result…player trading.  And boy, was that right up Ashton’s street!

Piss-poor really!

Every day of the week.

I wish I had a pound for every time someone suggested “the Brentford model” without having the first idea what it even is.

Scrap the Academy, own a team in Denmark, spend more money on predictive analytics than most of the Prem (before they were in it).

Fine, if you think we would operate it anywhere near as efficiently (we wouldn’t), plus our geographical location should give us an advantage re youngsters than Brentford’s never will.

If we think we could have done all this without the sales of Kelly, Reid & Bryan because we would implement this template perfectly that’s fine, but I somehow have my doubts.

[cidered abroad]

9 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He said himself that he found things to be even worse than he expected. Which would doubtless have put Steve's nose out of joint given that he told us to the end what a great job Ashton did.

Anybody who tells Steve some home truths is taking a risk but Nigel is not going to grovel like his predecessors.

So it may be a case of will he jump before he's pushed?

I certainly hope that he stays. Unless a complete disaster with the remaining games sends us down, he, the players have achieved the target of staying in the Championship for 2022-23.

The crux of the problem now is how successful we are in recruitment and moving our unwanted on during the summer.

Selling one of the promising young ones will put us as ok with FFP. But releasing those being paid more than a £Million a year is much more important and constructive.

Unfortunately, it will probably be two young guns leaving and the overpaid dross remaining because nobody will want them!

[Wiltshire robin]

10 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Every day of the week.

I wish I had a pound for every time someone suggested “the Brentford model” without having the first idea what it even is.

Scrap the Academy, own a team in Denmark, spend more money on predictive analytics than most of the Prem (before they were in it).

Fine, if you think we would operate it anywhere near as efficiently (we wouldn’t), plus our geographical location should give us an advantage re youngsters than Brentford’s never will.

If we think we could have done all this without the sales of Kelly, Reid & Bryan because we would implement this template perfectly that’s fine, but I somehow have my doubts.

I don’t think geographical location matters when it comes to our academy. Lots of Bristol kids and other locals end up going to Chelsea and Southampton as they both are heavily invested in scouting the West Country , both clubs have a private school they send academy kids to in the bath area so they can still live local .

[GrahamC]

31 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

I don’t think geographical location matters when it comes to our academy. Lots of Bristol kids and other locals end up going to Chelsea and Southampton as they both are heavily invested in scouting the West Country , both clubs have a private school they send academy kids to in the bath area so they can still live local .

I really meant Brentford knew they were fishing in an overcrowded pool in West London, Chelsea, QPR & Fulham are all only a couple of miles away.

Our situation is very different, Plymouth are the only other serious club in the South West & they are nearly 120 miles away.

In theory all of the old county of Avon, Gloucestershire & Somerset should be ours.

[TV Tom]

2 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

He knew it was bad when he accepted the position. As to just how bad a mess we are in might have been unknown to him at the time? I’ve never known a manager have his hands tied this much since possibly Terry Cooper?

If he was fed up and walked I wouldn’t blame him. He’s working with a poor squad who are mentally soft and he can’t change it anymore than he has tried to do with what he has and yet fans still berate him. He can lead the horse to water but he can’t make it drink.

I’m just grateful that we are likely to get another season in the Championship.

We have a far better squad than our league position and performances are showing, just maybe it’s a case that Pearson just can’t the best out of them?