Nigel Pearson will be on Sounds of the City Monday 25th July

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

So how true are the reports that we turned down 8.5 million for HNM from Watford a while back? 

And that talks with Nice, Freiburg and Leicester had happened with his Agent?

How much are we putting on his head?

 

Just a hunch but I never believed this Watford story at the time.

We were in even greater financial difficulties then than now & there seemed no way we could seriously reject this sort of money.

We didn’t sell anyone for a fee last summer & that sort of sum would have been significant re FFP.

I’ve been told he is very keen to return to France & isn’t interested in any contract offer, so we would sell if we get any sort of sensible offer but it seems obvious there isn’t one at present.

If we can do a deal he needs to go.

[Gazred]

He's clearly not going to extend. We'd do well to get something for him in Jan but i think he walks next summer for nothing and will be happy to shop himself around as a free agent.

Don't think NP likes the situation but needs him in the squad. If we had more depth i don’t think he'd feature much.

Real shame if it ends that way. I'd love to see him continue here.

[The Bard]

7 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Either HNM's dad is a rubbish agent - or we are asking too much.

 

I suspect it's the latter based on current financial markets.

 

If he wants to go now - lower the price and ease his way out.

No point playing hardball if he wants to go.

 

$1,000,000 question - why does he want to go??

HE said there's been no interest.  So no one has offered anything and been told to go away.  Nige playing hardball now is exactly the way to go.  His representatives are probably thinking he'll play enough this season and can leave for free.  If he barely gets a kick for the first few weeks then they may become more proactive, either in agreeing to the offer we've made or getting a buying club to make an offer. 

 

 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Just a hunch but I never believed this Watford story at the time.

We were in even greater financial difficulties then than now & there seemed no way we could seriously reject this sort of money.

We didn’t sell anyone for a fee last summer & that sort of sum would have been significant re FFP.

I’ve been told he is very keen to return to France & isn’t interested in any contract offer, so we would sell if we get any sort of sensible offer but it seems obvious there isn’t one at present.

If we can do a deal he needs to go.

I was also told that he wanted to return to France.

The Nice talks either dried up or we were/are asking too much?!

If he leaves for less than what we bought him for...or he runs his contract down, then the only winner is HNM. 

It'll be interesting to see how NP manages the situation. If he runs it down I can't see him being utilised much.

[mozo]

7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Did you listen to the actual comment ? There is no interest, it is not that we rejected an approach or asked too much. There is no hardball, there is no ball. 

As to why he wants to go, you need to ask HNM that. No one seems to know apart from him and his agent (dad if true he is his agent) 

A lot of players these days are running down their contracts to increase their options when the term ends, but it sounded to me like he risks getting fewer minutes on the pitch this season by not committing, albeit we will absolutely use him.

People say shirt numbers aren't important but just look at Scott getting 7, Conway something like 15, but Massengo getting bumped to a higher number.

[GrahamC]

Just now, mozo said:

A lot of players these days are running down their contracts to increase their options when the term ends, but it sounded to me like he risks getting fewer minutes on the pitch this season by not committing, albeit we will absolutely use him.

People say shirt numbers aren't important but just look at Scott getting 7, Conway something like 15, but Massengo getting bumped to a higher number.

Massengo’s number actually went down.

[KegCity]

7 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Either HNM's dad is a rubbish agent - or we are asking too much.

 

I suspect it's the latter based on current financial markets.

 

If he wants to go now - lower the price and ease his way out.

No point playing hardball if he wants to go.

 

$1,000,000 question - why does he want to go??

He probably wants to further his career, I doubt he considered City a long term move when he came over. Fact of the matter is that with one thing and another his development hasn't been as quick as expected. I think it's in his best interests to sign a deal with a fairly realistic release clause in it, he's settled here and continue to develop at a standard that suits him. HNM or his team must feel he can do better. In 12 months time with another 30 championship appearances he may be able to, but he's not going to have many options better than City at the moment.

Maybe he wants to go back to France. The whole thing is really disappointing, a year of not playing regularly is going to further hinder his development which nobody wants. We are weaker without him (despite what the goals and assists brigade may believe) and I don't think a year without regular first team football does HNM personally and good either.

[Red Army 75]

I like HNM . But 0 goals and 1 assist (could be a couple more) is not very impressive for a midfielder. 
 

In nearly 100 appearances for the club 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Red Army 75

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

Not going to use this as another bash LJ comparison but it's a great shame for everything LJ put into his time here that he poured over so many things and minute detail but never understood the pragmatism that less is more and no amount of building and spending works on weak foundations - the absence of focus on culture and leadership was always a great miss and a great waste, and once the last of the 14/15 personalities had gone, so largely had his chance of succeeding.

 

Absolutely agree Rob.  The notion of group culture, and associated leadership, is so overlooked in football analysis.  Every great football team has leaders on the pitch, and players who buy into a group ethic, and sadly Lee appears never to have quite got that.  I was mystified by Aaron Wilbraham’s signing when it was announced, given his then recent goal scoring record, but his role in our last promotion team cannot be overstated.

[2015]

2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I like HNM . But 0 goals and 1 assist (could be a couple more) is not very impressive for a midfielder. 

For a midfielder of his talent especially. It's poor no matter how people try spin it. Even Scott has managed to bag a few of each in 1 season. I know, players are used differently, but I must admit I have expected some sort of a goal and assist return from Massengo, but it hasn't really happened.

I rate the player, but I've expected more and I don't think it's a tall order when you have been outscored by both Andy King and Matty James

[KegCity]

5 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I like HNM . But 0 goals and 1 assist (could be a couple more) is not very impressive for a midfielder. 
 

In nearly 100 appearances for the club 

Jorginho has 5 assists for Chelsea in 120+ appearances, he has more goals but he takes penalties. The stat is irrelevant for deeper lying midfielders.

[KegCity]

1 minute ago, 2015 said:

For a midfielder of his talent especially. It's poor no matter how people try spin it. Even Scott has managed to bag a few of each in 1 season. I know, players are used differently, but I must admit I have expected some sort of a goal and assist return from Massengo, but it hasn't really happened.

I rate the player, but I've expected more and I don't think it's a tall order when you have been outscored by both Andy King and Matty James

It would undoubtedly be a bonus, but that's all it would be. Does his job well and is getting more consistent.

It's a shame he's not an academy player and has a price tag hanging over him, feel like it's placed too much expectation on a developing player.

[Sir Geoff]

15 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Massengo’s number actually went down.

But given a choice he would have kept 42 ( the area code of where he grew up in Paris ).

[Red Army 75]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

Jorginho has 5 assists for Chelsea in 120+ appearances, he has more goals but he takes penalties. The stat is irrelevant for deeper lying midfielders.

I don’t think it’s a irrelevant. HNM has played in several positions in midfield. And his goals and assists is a poor return. I expect more from him. Just my opinion 

[KegCity]

Just now, Red Army 75 said:

I don’t think it’s a irrelevant. HNM has played in several positions in midfield. And his goals and assists is a poor return. I expect more from him. Just my opinion 

I personally would like to see more clean sheets from Antoine Semenyo. I expect more from him.

[Red Army 75]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

I personally would like to see more clean sheets from Antoine Semenyo. I expect more from him.

Chatting shit now

[KegCity]

16 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Chatting shit now

The point I'm making is that criticising a player for not doing something that isn't their role in the side doesn't really make sense. It's the same as moaning about Semenyo not helping us keep clean sheets, it's lazy. There's plenty of relevant criticisms for Massengo (consistency and remaining switched on, arguably his defending) that are currently holding him back. Being a deep lying midfielder who hasn't scored despite being our most creative centre mid after Scott isn't one of them.

It makes no sense. Obviously it would be nice if he was chipping in with goals, but if that's people's biggest criticism of him then he's doing pretty well.

[Port Said Red]

It's obvious that HNM likes where he is, but if he is to stay then he has to see that the club might get him further up the ladder. If we had a storming start to the season and we're top 6 by the WC break, or around Jan 23, maybe that would be something that would give him a further reason to stay.

For the couple of nah sayers on this thread moaning about the lack of goals and assists, it's worth noting that he is still in the same age group as Conway, Bell etc, all of whom are looking to make an impact in the next three years. Only Scott, whom I think we are all agreed is an exception to the rule has provided more going forward than he has.

 

[TMWANG50]

I think HNM only came to us for one thing Ashton sold him the dream of Premier League football or at least being in the shop window for that. Its why a lot of foreign footballers come to the Championship. On current from HNM is miles off that so his only get out is to run his contract down and return to France.

[mozo]

57 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Massengo’s number actually went down.

Good shout but the point stands.

[Notbarrymanc]

Would HNM leave on a free? Wouldn’t his next club have to pay a court settlement fee to us because of his age?

[spudski]

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

[GrahamC]

Just now, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

Believe HNM’s mum moved back to France last year.

Cisse is still with us, he was in the crowd at the HPC for one of the friendlies.

With Fleming, Euell & Ball all on the coaching staff & the likes of Hines & Bell with the younger age group I have never been clear exactly what it is that he actually does.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Believe HNM’s mum moved back to France last year.

Cisse is still with us, he was in the crowd at the HPC for one of the friendlies.

With Fleming, Euell & Ball all on the coaching staff & the likes of Hines & Bell with the younger age group I have never been clear exactly what it is that he actually does.

Ah...that may put some more meat on the bones. Thanks for clarifying Cisse is still with us.

As for his role, reading between lines about him, it was a general role of coaching, helping out with foreign signings, connections etc etc

[AshtonRobin21]

I can't help but wonder if HNM was sold false promises upon his arrival. 

Being greeted by a brummie in a suit smiling like a Cheshire cat. He was likely told, "we will raise your profile and secure you a good future move". In order to accelerate HNM's development. 

HNM is now approaching the end of his 4 year contract and is expecting the interest to intensify for his signature (so far nothing...). 

However, the sad truth, is that HNM hasn't hit the heights he was expected to. Even 3 years into his time here, I don't think he would be in many people's strongest starting 11. 

He has undoubted potential, but as I have mentioned previously, we haven't seen enough of the 'Preston - Away' or 'Millwall - Home' performances. He was unplayable in both of those games. But those performances have been few and far between. 

The rumours upon him signing, was that he was being lined up for a future move to Chelsea/Arsenal. And whilst those rumours proved to be false, he was then linked to the likes of Leicester, Nice and Watford, which again came to nothing. And more recently being linked to Diddly Squat FC. 

If I were HNM's representative, I would encourage him to look at signing a new 2/3 year deal, he would only be 23/24 at the end of that contract. His development would continue to progress in a team where he could compete for regular game time, and would likely be approaching over 200 competitive games at that age. If he then wanted to move on, he would be in a much stronger position that he is currently. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Taz said:

Just listened online, good honest assessment from Nige as ever, without giving too much away with regards to who he sees as being the bulk of the first 11, and/or players who have impressed, although Kadji was mentioned as one who he likes.

On to Han Noah, great lad but for me hasn't done much to warrant a big improvement with regards to contract terms. In some respect he needs to look at the example that Taylor Moore set a few years ago - accept the offer on the table but maybe try and negotiate a better one based on targets set in the next. He took a wage cut to prove his worth. 

Now granted, it didn't work out for Moore, but you can't fault players like that. He had a belief that he could make it here, and was quite willing to accept lower terms over a short contract to prove that, which he did. Unfortunately for him he's out on loan for the last year of his deal, but I respect him for what he did. 

Han and his representatives, have maybe brought into the hype that surrounded him when he first signed too much. The market has changed, clubs are less willing to take a chance on players if they don't know how and where they would fit into their teams. Unless they know of something behind the scenes, I'd say they are playing a very dangerous game.

The big unknown for me is “what is he currently on”?  I can imagine MA gave him a whopping contract for an 18 year old, and the wage market has changed.  Just imagine he’s on £8-10k p.w.  Any normal 18 year old on a 4 year deal would be expecting a decent increase at 21 (3 years and almost 100 games later).  But the market has changed.  Andi Weimann is on a rumoured £10k p.w, down from £18-20k p.w.  That’s the context.  It’s why you have the likes of Kasey Palmer equivalents at Chelsea, still there at 25/26, because nobody can afford them, and they have got used to that level of wage.

I’ve no idea what Han is on, but he couldn’t have come here in a typical 18 year old wage.  I don’t blame him either for wanting a decent wage either.

I rate him, but you could easily argue what was his expectation of longevity at City….did he expect to see out 3 or 4 years of his contract, or did he expect to have moved on by now.  If so, I’m surprised most of the family uprooted themselves.

I just hope it gets resolved quickly.

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

HE said there's been no interest.  So no one has offered anything and been told to go away.  Nige playing hardball now is exactly the way to go.  His representatives are probably thinking he'll play enough this season and can leave for free.  If he barely gets a kick for the first few weeks then they may become more proactive, either in agreeing to the offer we've made or getting a buying club to make an offer. 

 

 

Nige might not always be totally honest here.  It’s like houses, price them too high, they won’t sell, price them correctly in the market and they will.  I can imagine any enquiries have been dismissed, we may need to revisit!

1 hour ago, mozo said:

A lot of players these days are running down their contracts to increase their options when the term ends, but it sounded to me like he risks getting fewer minutes on the pitch this season by not committing, albeit we will absolutely use him.

People say shirt numbers aren't important but just look at Scott getting 7, Conway something like 15, but Massengo getting bumped to a higher number.

…and a lot of players are finding that being a free agent this summer isn’t as lucrative as 3 years ago.  Clubs can’t afford fees, they can’t afford signing on fees either!

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Absolutely agree Rob.  The notion of group culture, and associated leadership, is so overlooked in football analysis.  Every great football team has leaders on the pitch, and players who buy into a group ethic, and sadly Lee appears never to have quite got that.  I was mystified by Aaron Wilbraham’s signing when it was announced, given his then recent goal scoring record, but his role in our last promotion team cannot be overstated.

Alby - leader, a driver of standards, seen success at higher levels than Lg1 - as we were at the time.  A master stroke of a signing.

I do think LJ tried that with Gary O’Neil, but unfortunately he suffered with injuries.  As each SOD and Cotts signing then left, it was a bit like Marty McFly’s photo in Back to the Future gradually fading away.

54 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I don’t think it’s a irrelevant. HNM has played in several positions in midfield. And his goals and assists is a poor return. I expect more from him. Just my opinion 

I still don’t get this argument.  We never put that point of criticism up against Korey Smith.  Swansea never worried about £8m Flynn Downes’s lack of goals and assists.  I’m not saying it’s dismissible, but it does detract from our evaluation of other aspects of his game imho.

[Bristol Oil Services]

36 minutes ago, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

If Jane Austen was alive today, she'd be writing about this type of domestic carry on (from the - eldest - sisters' perspective, not Han's lack of "goals and assists"), with Mark Ashton as a dashing if misunderstood Mr Darcy perhaps  .... 

[mozo]

38 minutes ago, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

By all accounts we've treated him well but many other clubs could do the same. 

It's a shame we can't get him on a contract with a relatively low release clause just to ensure we get a fee for him.

[brad blit]

I dont want to get pulled into the HNM argument regarding stats, but its clear to see there's a talented footballer there - personally im still not sure what his favoured position/role is.

The point i wanted to make on this thread, was why is there such fuss made over a player who's not really a guaranteed starter, whereas nothing is being asked about Bentley, Kalas and JD who (in my opinion) are more important to the squad, and their contracts are also up next summer too.

@Davefevs I did try finding your document about player contracts, but could you confirm if this is the case and Bentley/Kalas/JD are also OOC next summer.

[brad blit]

25 minutes ago, mozo said:

By all accounts we've treated him well but many other clubs could do the same. 

It's a shame we can't get him on a contract with a relatively low release clause just to ensure we get a fee for him.

Why would HNM sign a contract just so the club who currently employ him get a fee, and thus stop his own chances of a decent sign on fee at another club if he decides to leave - would you do the same for your employer??

[grifty]

I’d imagine if Han were to sign a new contract, he’d be back in Nigel’s plans who would be more inclined to involve him as he would be guaranteed ‘our player’.

It would be interesting to see how Han performs in a team that had our form and performances as we did for the last 10 or so games of the season, rather than a team that only had 2 shots a game and could hardly string 5 passes together which is what the majority of games he played for us has been like.

I see his strengths as his first touch, beating a man and driving forward, which would be perfect for our counter attacking style as he often commits an opposition player, beats them and then creates overloads.

The next part of finding a through ball, assist or shot/goal is where he is currently no good (out of practice?).

I’d see Han as a good back-up/cover for Williams in the 40% of games he will likely miss due to fitness issues. Appreciate Han probably doesn’t want to be back up though…

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, brad blit said:

I dont want to get pulled into the HNM argument regarding stats, but its clear to see there's a talented footballer there - personally im still not sure what his favoured position/role is.

The point i wanted to make on this thread, was why is there such fuss made over a player who's not really a guaranteed starter, whereas nothing is being asked about Bentley, Kalas and JD who (in my opinion) are more important to the squad, and their contracts are also up next summer too.

@Davefevs I did try finding your document about player contracts, but could you confirm if this is the case and Bentley/Kalas/JD are also OOC next summer.

might need to zoom in!

15 minutes ago, grifty said:

I’d imagine if Han were to sign a new contract, he’d be back in Nigel’s plans who would be more inclined to involve him as he would be guaranteed ‘our player’.

It would be interesting to see how Han performs in a team that had our form and performances as we did for the last 10 or so games of the season, rather than a team that only had 2 shots a game and could hardly string 5 passes together which is what the majority of games he played for us has been like.

I see his strengths as his first touch, beating a man and driving forward, which would be perfect for our counter attacking style as he often commits an opposition player, beats them and then creates overloads.

The next part of finding a through ball, assist or shot/goal is where he is currently no good (out of practice?).

I’d see Han as a good back-up/cover for Williams in the 40% of games he will likely miss due to fitness issues. Appreciate Han probably doesn’t want to be back up though…

That’s my view too, Nige big on commitment…if Han showed commitment by signing a contract, he’s right back in the selection mix.

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

A lot of players these days are running down their contracts to increase their options when the term ends

Good. It's a good thing that contracts, especially contracts where players were overvalued and over paid, are being completed. 

The compensation fees paid between clubs to cover remaining contract years have been one of the driving factors in football's ballooning finances. They have in turn caused clubs to turn to all kinds of "creative financing"* or to sometimes unreliable wealthy benefactors (or both). If one legacy of COVID's impact on the market is that those compensated transfers become rarer, and instead we see players actually complete contracts, and then move as free agents, then that should improve the financial stability of clubs like ours. Wages and signing on fees could still creep up, but it would be no bad thing to see reductions in payouts and smaller transfer fees.

I've no problem whatsoever with players like Diedhiou or Massengo seeing out their contracts and then moving on.

*See Derby County, Sheff Wednesday, Barcelona, etc.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Ah...that may put some more meat on the bones. Thanks for clarifying Cisse is still with us.

As for his role, reading between lines about him, it was a general role of coaching, helping out with foreign signings, connections etc etc

Cisse also scouts opposition and potential signings.

To add to the family thing, Hans brother studied at UWE.

[FabledRobin]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

He also has two brothers. One was a guest of S82 before the pandemic 

[mozo]

2 hours ago, brad blit said:

Why would HNM sign a contract just so the club who currently employ him get a fee, and thus stop his own chances of a decent sign on fee at another club if he decides to leave - would you do the same for your employer??

Well typically there would be an immediate wage increase, but as per discussion above the terms on the table could be less or the same as current. Maybe we offered him a lucrative goal bonus  

[And Its Smith]

If James or Williams bust their knee early doors then HNM will be needed in a big way. Don’t feel he gets the respect as a player he deserves on here. 

[GrahamC]

12 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If James or Williams bust their knee early doors then HNM will be needed in a big way. Don’t feel he gets the respect as a player he deserves on here. 

I’m still not sure he’d get that chance if he doesn’t commit.

Scott is a bit of a dream really, despite being only 18 he can play anywhere & I could see him getting the gig alongside whichever of James or Williams was fit, with Sykes used further forward & King being what he already is, the experienced back up, on the bench if needed, in the stands if not.

I’m not even convinced HNM will be on the bench on Saturday after listening to Nige.

[Sir Geoff]

16 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If James or Williams bust their knee early doors then HNM will be needed in a big way. Don’t feel he gets the respect as a player he deserves on here. 

Doubt it. Scott would drop in and Weimann would play just behind the strikers giving Wells more playing time. Or King would slot in. Massengo would still only be on the bench. Sign a contract and he will move up the pecking order.

[Red Army 75]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The big unknown for me is “what is he currently on”?  I can imagine MA gave him a whopping contract for an 18 year old, and the wage market has changed.  Just imagine he’s on £8-10k p.w.  Any normal 18 year old on a 4 year deal would be expecting a decent increase at 21 (3 years and almost 100 games later).  But the market has changed.  Andi Weimann is on a rumoured £10k p.w, down from £18-20k p.w.  That’s the context.  It’s why you have the likes of Kasey Palmer equivalents at Chelsea, still there at 25/26, because nobody can afford them, and they have got used to that level of wage.

I’ve no idea what Han is on, but he couldn’t have come here in a typical 18 year old wage.  I don’t blame him either for wanting a decent wage either.

I rate him, but you could easily argue what was his expectation of longevity at City….did he expect to see out 3 or 4 years of his contract, or did he expect to have moved on by now.  If so, I’m surprised most of the family uprooted themselves.

I just hope it gets resolved quickly.

Nige might not always be totally honest here.  It’s like houses, price them too high, they won’t sell, price them correctly in the market and they will.  I can imagine any enquiries have been dismissed, we may need to revisit!

…and a lot of players are finding that being a free agent this summer isn’t as lucrative as 3 years ago.  Clubs can’t afford fees, they can’t afford signing on fees either!

Alby - leader, a driver of standards, seen success at higher levels than Lg1 - as we were at the time.  A master stroke of a signing.

I do think LJ tried that with Gary O’Neil, but unfortunately he suffered with injuries.  As each SOD and Cotts signing then left, it was a bit like Marty McFly’s photo in Back to the Future gradually fading away.

I still don’t get this argument.  We never put that point of criticism up against Korey Smith.  Swansea never worried about £8m Flynn Downes’s lack of goals and assists.  I’m not saying it’s dismissible, but it does detract from our evaluation of other aspects of his game imho.

Whilst opinions differ on the player. I expect the majority would agree if he were to leave for free it would be another kick in the nuts for the club. 

[REDOXO]

21 hours ago, The Coach said:

Recap I've taken from NP tonight:

 

Nigel wants to be competitive. May just be me. But wants this squad of players to aim high this coming season

Squad looking fitter than last season

Naismith secured a better contract offer here than at Luton. Naismith excited at the project at Bristol City. 

Confident Sykes & Wilson have the technicality, motivation and desire to be successful. Something that is often not talked about in players.

3 players that were brought in on a free helped us massively due to our financial predicament.

Wants to achieve his 3 year objective as originally set out. However, now believes it may take a bit longer due to our situation and the current market. 

Still has ambition to sign more players. Less likely to do more business due to current financial challenges. But states things could change. Highlighted there has been interest from some clubs with a couple of our players but doesn't want to lose any of these players.

Will not disclose who's impressed him this pre-season. 

Spoke with Tins, wants to put some young players out on loan. Due to the numbers, cannot afford to do so. Young players pathways could be disrupted as numbers are short in the squad. 

Joe Williams - always going to be a concern with his injury record. Joe may not play 2 games in a short space of time (i.e, Saturday, Tues, Saturday).

Semenyo - Hoping to be back in September from injury.

Kalas - Not making much progress on his injury. Something that has cropped up before

Massengo - No update on Massengo contract. Offer on the table for over a season more or less to sign. Squad player who may get game time (sounds like he won't be a first starter going forward). No interest in him from other clubs. Sounds like he will run contract down. 

Vyner - Appears to me the club cannot offload him. Sounds like he's just making up the squad numbers. NP highlights he's had a good pre-season however. 

In terms of the operation of the football club. Wants those high up to take on the challenge of moving up the ladder and having the ambition to progress. Understands the challenges and issues but everyone involved with the club needs to find a way to progress. 

Loan Players - Not keen. You sign PL loan players, their wages are high and it bites into the wage budget. Not a cheap option. Again, not ruling out but would have to be the right loan signing. Also highlights other Championship clubs are chasing the same young players to loan.

Starting XI for Saturday not yet finalised. Knows the bulk of his first XI but players still have 4 days to change his mind. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good summary. Loved the little dig at LJ for his pathway comment. It obviously pissed off Pearson as much as Tinman! 

[And Its Smith]

30 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I’m still not sure he’d get that chance if he doesn’t commit.

Scott is a bit of a dream really, despite being only 18 he can play anywhere & I could see him getting the gig alongside whichever of James or Williams was fit, with Sykes used further forward & King being what he already is, the experienced back up, on the bench if needed, in the stands if not.

I’m not even convinced HNM will be on the bench on Saturday after listening to Nige.

 

28 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Doubt it. Scott would drop in and Weimann would play just behind the strikers giving Wells more playing time. Or King would slot in. Massengo would still only be on the bench. Sign a contract and he will move up the pecking order.

Time will tell I guess. I still think he will get a fair amount of minutes if he stays. King won’t play much at all. There will be injuries as all clubs have. I think Massengo will start more games than King this season for sure and play over 1500 minutes this season. 

[Atticus]

If he doesn't want to signal new contract then bye bye. If he shows no commitment then I hope he isn't played.

 

Frustrating as hell we csnt sign anymore players though

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Atticus

[Atticus]

People pulling up stats etc about him, or making excuses for him. Who cares?

If we won't sign a new contract, then not to be too crude but **** him, and focus on players that wanna be here.

 

I'm more worried about chances of signing new players.

[And Its Smith]

7 minutes ago, Atticus said:

People pulling up stats etc about him, or making excuses for him. Who cares?

If we won't sign a new contract, then not to be too crude but **** him, and focus on players that wanna be here.

 

I'm more worried about chances of signing new players.

Good for you.  The ‘who cares?’ comments on forums always baffle me. People are talking and debating one of our players.  If you don’t like that then look away. 

[bexhill reds]

what's not been mentioned thus far in this thread is that the new French keeper indicated in an interview that he spoke to Massengo before joining as they knew each other from the French national youth set up, so clearly HNM has provided a sufficiently good insider's reference to help make up his mind to sign.

Perhaps that signing might be an unintended catalyst for HNM to hang around with a new contract...

[Atticus]

9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Good for you.  The ‘who cares?’ comments on forums always baffle me. People are talking and debating one of our players.  If you don’t like that then look away. 

A player that won't sign a new contract. A player that will not commit to us next season. A ayer that has his eyes on whoever after this season.

That is not a player that has focus. Hence Pearsons comments. 

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Atticus said:

A player that won't sign a new contract. A player that will not commit to us next season. A ayer that has his eyes on whoever after this season.

That is not a player that has focus. Hence Pearsons comments. 

Is he not committed to the club? He signed a contract and is still under that contract. Always seems to put in maximum effort.  Yes it’s frustrating that he won’t sign a new contract but that’s his right. As long as he is putting in the effort on the pitch and in training then he has my respect.  

[Gazred]

Would rather have HNM in and around the team but for the longer term vision, I'm hope Nige will be sticking to his principles. It's a shame this applies to Han but that in itself shows the standards he's trying to introduce. Nobody is exempt from it.

You're either onboard on your not. Want to run down your contract? Dont expect to be considered anything more than a squad player whilst you are still here.

Nobody can say for sure but I'd suggest he either already knows he's off next summer or hoping the club offer terms more to his liking be that wage or length. Either way it leaves him in Pearson purgatory in the meantime.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Gazred said:

You're either onboard on your not. Want to run down your contract? Dont expect to be considered anything more than a squad player whilst you are still here.

 

Nutshell

[Atticus]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Is he not committed to the club? He signed a contract and is still under that contract. Always seems to put in maximum effort.  Yes it’s frustrating that he won’t sign a new contract but that’s his right. As long as he is putting in the effort on the pitch and in training then he has my respect.  

I'd suggest it's a player that has his eye on the season after.

That's not hard to make that ascertain is it.

Just now, Atticus said:

I'd suggest it's a player that has his eye on the season after.

That's not hard to make that ascertain is it.

Again. Why would a manager want to play a player that already has his eye on the future?

 

[SBB]

20 minutes ago, Atticus said:

I'd suggest it's a player that has his eye on the season after.

That's not hard to make that ascertain is it.

Again. Why would a manager want to play a player that already has his eye on the future?

 

What makes you think his mind is on next season? He may want to move on when his contact expires but that doesn’t mean he’s not committed  this season. I’m sure if he’s called upon and NP plays him, he’ll give his all…. Unlike the waste of space we had ip front a season or two ago.

Edited July 26, 2022 by SBB
Typo. Trying to text while driving

[Gazred]

Decent piece here on the situation being discussed. For wider conversation, Wenger probably got it right?

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/wengers-prophesy-powerless-pearson-odowda-7384718

[Atticus]

2 hours ago, SBB said:

What makes you think his mind is on next season? He may want to move on when his contact expires but that doesn’t mean he’s not committed  this season. I’m sure if he’s called upon and NP plays him, he’ll give his all…. Unlike the waste of space we had ip front a season or two ago.

Hm. Well, disagree. A player that won't sign a new contract, as young as him, would almost certainly have his eyes on the future as opposed to the season ahead. Its natural.

 

And clearly Nigel agrees to some extent. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Atticus

[Dullmoan Tone]

What’s particularly insightful is NP saying there has been no interest in him. That is designed to destabilise his confidence. I know he’s young and popular but I reckon he’s had about four outstanding 90 minute performances.

Clearly he has to be consistently impactful to attract the attention of the Premier / top Leagues in Europe.

That said, I wish Pearson wouldn’t try these mind games in public (like with Backinson) it doesn’t seem fair on young players, who are probably simply following their agents strategy to get better deals.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

What’s particularly insightful is NP saying there has been no interest in him. That is designed to destabilise his confidence. I know he’s young and popular but I reckon he’s had about four outstanding 90 minute performances.

Clearly he has to be consistently impactful to attract the attention of the Premier / top Leagues in Europe.

That said, I wish Pearson wouldn’t try these mind games in public (like with Backinson) it doesn’t seem fair on young players, who are probably simply following their agents strategy to get better deals.

In fairness the contract offer has been on the table for 8+ months.  I really, really want Han to sign it, but as manager you can’t formulate plans either with him or without him if you don’t know what he’s gonna do.

All he’s said is he becomes more of a fringe / squad player at this point in time.  Nige won’t bear a grudge, if he signs, I suspect Nige will be delighted.

It isn’t mind games at all, it’s just answering the question honestly.  He did what he said with Bakinson didn’t he?  He doesn’t really make idle threats, he will challenge players though.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Davefevs

[AshtonGreat]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

Just to confirm...HNM's Agent/Advisor is his father. 

He, his wife and 5 sisters moved here to be with Han.

I agree that City are seen as a stepping stone in his development and career.

Whilst they maybe happy with his development and how the club look after him, I feel not enough starts last season maybe why they are stalling.

He came here to play football.

On a side note...Kaliffe Cisse was playing a big role in his development here. 

Is he still with us?

Han-Noah and his sisters. I can feel a Woody Allen film coming on...

Edited July 26, 2022 by AshtonGreat

[samo II]

HNM, Palmer, COD…

For me they represent last of the echos of the old way of doing things, where it was more like accumulating lottery tickets and hoping one would pay off a la Webster, compared to building a team.

The model was flawed anyway, as several of the best sales we made weren’t ‘assets’ brought in but players developed here like Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan, but those in charge still thought it would be the way we’d progress, despite key figures getting shipped out regularly.

Feel somewhat sorry for HNM as he likely got sold a bit if a line, but despite that - need to be practical: can’t be having someone taking up a key role/starting position when they likely are gone as soon as they can. Better lose minutes go to players who are committed; just makes sense.

[And Its Smith]

4 hours ago, Atticus said:

I'd suggest it's a player that has his eye on the season after.

That's not hard to make that ascertain is it.

Again. Why would a manager want to play a player that already has his eye on the future?

 

That might say more about you than him. When I last handed my notice in and worked a month for what would soon be my former employer, I didn’t try any less.   I think HNM would be the same 

[AshtonRobin21]

I remember GJ freezing out Bradley Orr once upon a time due to him refusing to sign a new contract. 

Orr then back-tracked and signed the deal. 

Peterborough take a harsh approach to players who won't sign new contracts. They are instantly placed on the transfer list, regardless of their importance to the squad. 

[The Constant Rabbit]

14 hours ago, SecretSam said:

Calm down, sport, you could have said "I wasn't able to listen, I'm in Australia"

 

11 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Missed the Aussie flag to indicate lack of initiative . The internet must be working so you have no excuses . You don’t even need a VPN for non live sport. But I’m  not doing your homework for you. It’s very easy to find and play . Even in Oz . So , zero excuses , and still hence my question. 

Sorry chaps - have Covid and feel shit, but no excuse for being rude.

 

Apologies

[Taz]

48 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

I remember GJ freezing out Bradley Orr once upon a time due to him refusing to sign a new contract. 

Orr then back-tracked and signed the deal. 

Peterborough take a harsh approach to players who won't sign new contracts. They are instantly placed on the transfer list, regardless of their importance to the squad. 

Well put. This isn't the first time a player (young or not) has been left out of a team because they won't sign a new contract.

It's a catch 22 situation, as a manager you want him to play to develop the player and to help him  move onto the next level. That being said though, when said player is not one of the best players in the squad, how can you warrant starting him every week? You can't just pick him in the hope that he may decide to sign a contract that's been on the table for numerous months. 

I think Pearsons stance is fair. He won't commit to the club, Pearson is trying to build a squad capable of pushing up the table, because let's be fair his job is ultimately on the line, so how can you build something for the future when a squad player is undecided what he wants to do in his own future?

I'm under no illusions that Han will get minutes (NP has said so himself), but as a squad player, he has to settle for a place on the bench. If/when he gets his chance, because he will, he needs to grab it with both hands and make it impossible for Pearson to drop him again. Unfortunately, under 3 different managers, Han is yet to do that.

I like him, he has potential (as pointed out he is a similar age to our other young prospects), and I hope he signs. That being said, he is far from being one of the best members of the squad.

Harsh maybe, but he needs to kick on. For himself if nothing else.

[SBB]

6 hours ago, SBB said:

What makes you think his mind is on next season? He may want to move on when his contact expires but that doesn’t mean he’s not committed  this season. I’m sure if he’s called upon and NP plays him, he’ll give his all…. Unlike the waste of space we had ip front a season or two ago.

Edited 6 hours ago by SBB 
Typo. Trying to text while driving

Possibly the worst autocorrect of all time. 
That will teach me to take my glove off at the driving range. 

[pl00peh91]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness the contract offer has been on the table for 8+ months.  I really, really want Han to sign it, but as manager you can’t formulate plans either with him or without him if you don’t know what he’s gonna do.

All he’s said is he becomes more of a fringe / squad player at this point in time.  Nige won’t bear a grudge, if he signs, I suspect Nige will be delighted.

It isn’t mind games at all, it’s just answering the question honestly.  He did what he said with Bakinson didn’t he?  He doesn’t really make idle threats, he will challenge players though.

There is another school of thought which would say that Pearson has been the direct beneficiary of players running down their contracts at Luton and FGR this summer, and actually our recruitment strategy could not work without that happening, so to be so publicly forceful against players running down their contracts here seems to be him trying to have his cake and eat it

[GrahamC]

32 minutes ago, pl00peh91 said:

There is another school of thought which would say that Pearson has been the direct beneficiary of players running down their contracts at Luton and FGR this summer, and actually our recruitment strategy could not work without that happening, so to be so publicly forceful against players running down their contracts here seems to be him trying to have his cake and eat it

Not really.

Every club works smartly to take advantage of these type of situations.

What he wants to avoid is a repeat of the utter shambles he inherited from Ashton whereby half the squad were out of contract with no possible value to the club as a result.

 

[Shuffle]

A different dynamic to the HNM situation as that is public but I wonder how many of our squad will be involved who are in the last year of their contract & have rejected or will reject new terms?  It’s a big unknown but with so many OOC next summer NP could back himself into a corner with the statement they will be squad players. Bentley, Kalas, Dasilva, Wells, Vyner to my knowledge are OOC but if they reject will NP take same stance. 

[BTRFTG]

Haven't listened to the interview but if the suggestion is Nige views HNM as only a 'squad player' on the basis his contract expires at the end of the season, then that's disgraceful. HNM, like all players, should be given the opportunity to show what they can do. Just because the likes of CoD, KP & TBFK gave up long before exiting doesn't imply HNM would act similarly. If anything, the kid has always put a shift in when given the chance.

It works both ways. If by some fluke City were promoted at the end of the season, would they stand by those players that had delivered success simply because they had time left on their contracts? Like hell would they.

[brady bunch]

Its not HNM's lack of goals and assists that bothers me, it is his bad lapses in a defensive role (failing to track runners, being out of position, losing the ball in dangerous positions) that has cost City dearly in many games (he has at least as bad a record on it as Taylor Moore). Its this, not his lack of goals that worries me and clearly many other potential buyers.. 

"no interest" speaks volumes......

A nice lad, some amazing moves (that his PR can make look great on YouTube), but flattered to deceive and massively over hyped. Looks like a footballer, but needs to deliver and it is almost certainly going to need to be elsewhere. 

Probably going to end up as a loan out, followed by a a big write off in the books at the end of the contract.

[BTRFTG]

23 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

You get what you pay for....

Almost that the player wants his cake and eat it . 

Given City's overpriced carousel of crap these past years that clearly isn't the case. Cost & value share no dependency. Never did, never will.

I also find it amusing when fans project their own flawed logic onto players. Like cost and value football and contracts share no dependency. When a player signs a contract all one hopes is they perform until that contract expires. City have been stuffed to the gunnels with non-performers on long contracts they're unable to shift (no rounds of applause for the AG8 please), so length to contract expiry is a woeful indicator as to performance and commitment. Why should a player feel obligated to perform anything other than that stated within their contract? If you employed a builder to construct an extension on your gaff would you berate them were they not to hang around after delivering as much simply because you might want them also to look at your roof? Seems to me HNM wants to fulfill his contract. What's wrong with that?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, pl00peh91 said:

There is another school of thought which would say that Pearson has been the direct beneficiary of players running down their contracts at Luton and FGR this summer, and actually our recruitment strategy could not work without that happening, so to be so publicly forceful against players running down their contracts here seems to be him trying to have his cake and eat it

That’s the modern world of football, but I think Nige when referring to “policies” to stop this happening is not “cake and eat it”, it’s about running the football club in a good business manner.  Look at Peterborough, they have a policy that if a player gets to their final year they “transfer list” them.  They realise that the final year’s amortisation is dead money and try to recoup a fee.  They don’t always succeed, but that is their policy.  And I think that is what Nige means.  If we can take advantage of other clubs not having such a policy, that’s their fault, not Nige having his cake and eating it.

59 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

A different dynamic to the HNM situation as that is public but I wonder how many of our squad will be involved who are in the last year of their contract & have rejected or will reject new terms?  It’s a big unknown but with so many OOC next summer NP could back himself into a corner with the statement they will be squad players. Bentley, Kalas, Dasilva, Wells, Vyner to my knowledge are OOC but if they reject will NP take same stance. 

The difference here is the length of time the contract has been on the table.  I’m sure if we hear that the likes of Kalas, etc have been offered deals and have stalled over a long period, then I think Nige is principled enough to take a similar stance.  FWIW, he hasn’t said he won’t play him, just that he’d (paraphrased) rather focus on those that are committed to staying.

20 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Haven't listened to the interview but if the suggestion is Nige views HNM as only a 'squad player' on the basis his contract expires at the end of the season, then that's disgraceful. HNM, like all players, should be given the opportunity to show what they can do. Just because the likes of CoD, KP & TBFK gave up long before exiting doesn't imply HNM would act similarly. If anything, the kid has always put a shift in when given the chance.

It works both ways. If by some fluke City were promoted at the end of the season, would they stand by those players that had delivered success simply because they had time left on their contracts? Like hell would they.

Probably worth listening to the interview.