We Need to Talk About Kal

[SouthS22]

We’ve been missing a Webster like defender since he went to the Prem. He makes more mistakes, but Naismith is that kind of player that makes such a massive difference to the team. He gives us that foundation to play more of a possession based game and his leadership from the back makes everyone around him better, not just his partners at CB, but those in front of him too.  He even gives Bents enough confidence to play the ball out. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we’ve had a lot more of the ball since he’s been in, and he is making a big contribution to us playing better football overall.  I’m hoping he can cut out more errors as he gets more familiar with his teammates and starts develop good CB partnerships with Atkinson and Vyner, and Kalas when he gets back. 

[pongo88]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Blimey. Okay pedant. Nice one. 

Being honest and illustrating facts is not being pedantic. Nobody can have a good game without the ball. If they did they’d just run around a bit, look good, but achieve nothing. (We’ve had a few of these over the years) They’ve  actually got to have have the ball.

[Cityboy1954]

4 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I absolutely disagree. We are good enough and will get better. 3 clean sheets on the bounce at home and 9 points. Bring it on

Same stupid mistakes time and time again until we got the second goal it was panic stations a better side would have punished us take your red tinted glasses off mate .

[And Its Smith]

Just now, pongo88 said:

Being honest and illustrating facts is not being pedantic. Nobody can have a good game without the ball. If they did they’d just run around a bit, look good, but achieve nothing. (We’ve had a few of these over the years) They’ve  actually got to have have the ball.

There is a common phrase in football that managers use. It is ‘we need to be good with and without the ball’. I assume you’ve heard it.  If not, Google it and you will see that it is used.  

[W-S-M Seagull]

We won? 

[Red Army 75]

10 minutes ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Same stupid mistakes time and time again until we got the second goal it was panic stations a better side would have punished us take your red tinted glasses off mate .

You can’t see the progress. Maybe you need to get your glasses on

[TV Tom]

He’s absolute class, an accident waiting to happen but still class, the positives massively outweigh the negatives 

[TV Tom]

29 minutes ago, SouthS22 said:

We’ve been missing a Webster like defender since he went to the Prem. He makes more mistakes, but Naismith is that kind of player that makes such a massive difference to the team. He gives us that foundation to play more of a possession based game and his leadership from the back makes everyone around him better, not just his partners at CB, but those in front of him too.  He even gives Bents enough confidence to play the ball out. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we’ve had a lot more of the ball since he’s been in, and he is making a big contribution to us playing better football overall.  I’m hoping he can cut out more errors as he gets more familiar with his teammates and starts develop good CB partnerships with Atkinson and Vyner, and Kalas when he gets back. 

Summed it up perfectly 

[Ian M]

The point about "at 30 he's unlikely to improve if he hasn't already", you have to maybe give some weight to the number of positions he has played in his career? Of his 380 senior appearances, 71 have been at CB. I do think there is some credit in those who believe he can improve with experience in the position and relationships with his defensive partners.

That said, we are on our longest unbeaten run under Nigel and have just secured our first run of 3 clean sheets at home since 2015 and the first time we have won 3 in a row at home to nil since 2010. So, the argument that the good outweigh's the bad must have some merit.

[Cityboy1954]

30 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

You can’t see the progress. Maybe you need to get your glasses on

Course theres progress but the problems at the back are still there an i like Naismith  overall the football is much better but we aint Real nadrid at the back .

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think there has to be an acceptance here of risk vs reward. 
 

We’ve decided to play from the back, and generally through Kal. As a result, he sees more ball than practically everyone and plays the game as risk vs reward - if he turns the forward, we’re in - if he doesn’t we may be in trouble. 
 

I kind of accept him getting caught in possession on that basis. I’m less positive if he plays dodgy passes, but on balance I think the fact he’s been key to our way of playing is more good than bad.

Related point: Bents is doing better than most thought he would with his feet.

Yep.

I honestly feel that once Nige signed Naismith early (27th May), he then confirmed he was going with a back three system with better possession / building from the back capability.  Wilson signed to fit a wingback system, Rinomhota lowered in / removed from priority (speculation from me).

He then set about fine-tuning the 3412 to play from the back, dictated either my Naismith’s passing into midfield, his ability to break the opposition press by dribbling forward, or my drawing players to him to free Atkinson and to a lesser extent Vyner.

That basically is our model for building from the back.  We won’t always be able to construct attacks in that way.  We saw tonight that they pushed Anjorin into Atkinson’s space first half and we had a lull for 10-15 minutes where we struggled to move the ball quickly enough.

Second half he made a couple of mistakes.

Im afraid it goes with the territory.

I’m really enjoying watching it.  I see the plan.  I accept he’ll eff-up occasionally.  In time he might have Kalas alongside him and it feels a bit less risky.  But he’s also trying to manage Vyner too…and I think you can add Zak’s improvement to Kal’s list of positives.

Bents swept up pretty well tonight.  The dodgy Scott back-pass showed how Bents taking a higher starting position stops that becoming a 1-on-1.

 

 

the other point is how well structured our forwards on in stopping our opponents playing out from the keeper.  That allows our CBs to play high.

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

He’s a a player that loses concentration and makes a mistake. However he has a re-emerging Vyner and Atkinson who is playing out of his skin by him. I just think he is taking responsibility more than he needs to. Also I suspect he will be found more in midfield as the season progresses 

I think this system is here to stay.

2 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

His positioning in the earlier games was suspect as well.

I said after pre-season that I wasn't convinced by him and that I felt he dwells on the ball and has a mistake in him.

But without him half of our attacks wouldn't start and he's extremely good on set pieces.

Rough with the smooth I suppose and on balance, he haas to be one of the first on the team sheet.

I agree that if Vyner made the sort of mistakes Naismith makes nearly every game, he'd be slaughtered on here and in the stands.

If Naismith just made defensive mistakes and offered little of the stuff we see on the ball he’d be getting stick. But I think most of us are accepting it because there is so much more he’s offering.  I suspect opposing teams are now gonna come to AG with a different approach.  Whereas before it was - keep us quiet for 15 mins, beat us up physically, the fans will turn and the game is ours.  Now I sense trans thinking of ways to stop us playing from the back.

[Garland-sweden]

Good player but to many terrible misstakes. The one at Blackpool cost us, luckyli not today. Dont know What in his head sometimes.

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Also I suspect he will be found more in midfield as the season progresses

Bang on - very much so .......

[petehinton]

He makes us much, much better. MOTM in a few games already this season. Risky at times, but one of the best free transfers we’ll probably ever have. 

[Tinmans Love Child]

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think there has to be an acceptance here of risk vs reward. 
 

We’ve decided to play from the back, and generally through Kal. As a result, he sees more ball than practically everyone and plays the game as risk vs reward - if he turns the forward, we’re in - if he doesn’t we may be in trouble. 
 

I kind of accept him getting caught in possession on that basis. I’m less positive if he plays dodgy passes, but on balance I think the fact he’s been key to our way of playing is more good than bad.

Related point: Bents is doing better than most thought he would with his feet.

That’s all fair enough, but I think the problem is the distance he is trying to pass the ball between defenders, and his ability to pull off those passes.

The 3rd Blackpool goal wasn’t a result of Naismith playing from the back and getting caught in possession, it was a complete hospital pass in injury time from Naismith and could easily have been avoided with a pass to Bentley.

The pass last night from which they nearly scored was a crazy pass across half the width of the pitch, asking to be intercepted, and not in Naismiths locker to pull off.

As someone else has said, I think he thinks he’s better than he is at passing and he thinks he can execute raking passes across the pitch at will.  Passing the ball that distance between the back 2 shouldn’t happen IMO, 

There is a difference between playing out from the back and getting tackled, to giving the ball away when passing to a team mate.  The latter is the problem he needs to address.

[Negan]

Our best defender overall by miles. Can get caught out but imo we’d of lost more games than we have without him. Can see his mistakes have cost us a few goals but he’s done more than his share of preventing them too. The problem for me is I don’t think he should be in the centre. I’d play Atkinson there until Kalas is back and have Naismith on the left side, not so much of a risk then if he does lose it out wide compared to centrally. 

[Dr Balls]

The reality is that he is a midfielder who is only playing his second season as a centre back and at Championship level. The mistakes he makes on the ball might be tolerated (just) if he was in midfield (for example Massengo giving the ball away) but are going to get punished more severely if you are the last player at the back. It’s exactly what happened against both Sunderland and Blackpool when we conceded sloppy goals after he either lost the ball or gave it away, so on that basis you could say it’s at least 3 points he has caused us to lose. However other aspects of his game are very good, he just needs a bit of a talking too and coaching from Nige about how to play as a central defender in dangerous situations, and not putting himself in them unnecessary. 

[Jacki]

I like Naismith a lot. As many have said he’s absolutely key to how we play and we look a different team with him in it. He’s the most talented footballer we’ve had at CB since Webster without a doubt.

He does give me the collywobbles with his mistakes though. We are so often the architects of our own downfall and that could have been the case several times last night. All of their good chances came from us switching off or giving the ball away. Vyner has improved hugely this season but he still struggles to concentrate for 90 minutes and has a mistake in him, so between the two of them we will let in some poor goals at times.

Overall though it’s so much better than last season. We have a clear way of playing and it’s great fun to watch. Naismith has already played a huge part in that.  

[tin]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

His decision making is bloody random, he got away with it twice tonight.

One shocker of a pass to Atkinson & then I have no idea what he was thinking with the ball back to Bentley.

Did a couple of amazing things, great tackles & blocks but if Vyner had played those 2 passes people would be going mental.

I thought it was Scott who made the awful pass back to Bentley second half, or am I thinking of another one?

There's lots to like about Naismith IMO, but he keeps making the same mistakes with these high-risk passes in and around the box. Cut those out and he could be class. 

Despite that, he’s part of a back three that’s won three out of four home games by two goals and kept three clean sheets, and are seven unbeaten in all competitions so it’s not all bad. 

[Bodiesaffer]

Top player made a couple of mistakes.  He’ll improve.

[johnbytheriver]

What a player! Get off his back! He has helped transform this team this season into something which is now worth watching.

[Mad Cyril]

I am so confused.

We are playing the best, most entertaining possession based football for years, much of it starting through Naismith... and people are saying they want safe hoofball again as we might concede a goal.

Who wants to be Preston?

[johnheadbcfc]

The amount of people that would moan on here if he just smashed it up to the other teams defence is a joke. We haven't had a defender with his class for years, let's not forget he takes 90% of set pieces.

Whoever said he can be like lewin nyatanga stinks of gas

[NorthBris_Southstand]

He's made a massive difference to the team in possession, having a central defender so good on the ball has completely changed our ability to keep possession and construct attacks.

I think there's a bit of memory loss from some on here about how different we were in possession for much of last season, so much passing back and forth along the back 3 before a channel ball to Martin because we couldn't find out midfield. Now Naismith is not the only one responsible for the change but he's made a big difference. He's allowed us to play the system the way Nige wants it to be played in possession and that is massive for the team.

Having said that, he does and probably will continue to give away one big chance per game due to the additional risks he takes. Personally I'm fine with that because of the bigger picture of how our play has progressed (it's so much nicer to watch us already this year). Also realistically, if he could bring his quality without these mistakes, he wouldn't be with us as there's no way we could have afforded him.

[bexhill reds]

8 hours ago, GrahamC said:

His decision making is bloody random, he got away with it twice tonight.

One shocker of a pass to Atkinson & then I have no idea what he was thinking with the ball back to Bentley.

Did a couple of amazing things, great tackles & blocks but if Vyner had played those 2 passes people would be going mental.

Personally I think the ball back to Bentley was ok, just made worse by the fact the Bentley doesn’t really command his box, you could see Naismith shielding the ball almost urging him to come out.

The Atkinson pass was a shocker, but by and large he’s brought some consistency to the back 3, arguably Vyner and Atkinson are much better players with him there.

[Port Said Red]

9 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

The amount of people that would moan on here if he just smashed it up to the other teams defence is a joke. We haven't had a defender with his class for years, let's not forget he takes 90% of set pieces.

Whoever said he can be like lewin nyatanga stinks of gas

Yes of course that must be it. 

The question I asked  was do we have to accept that we will get the bad with the good, and I think that with a few  exceptions the answer on here is yes.

I tend to agree because he allows for other players to play better and more importantly the system to work and the ball to be played on the deck. 

The only caveat is that we need to remember that there are times when Row Z is the best option and in fact there were 2 occasions yesterday when Kal used it. I keep going back to Fleming in pre season telling the players, that it didn't matter what it looked like, if it doesn't go in the net, it's good defending.

I am loving the way we are playing and those who have been asking for entertainment must surely be getting their money's worth so far.

 

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Personally I think the ball back to Bentley was ok, just made worse by the fact the Bentley doesn’t really command his box, you could see Naismith shielding the ball almost urging him to come out.

The Atkinson pass was a shocker, but by and large he’s brought some consistency to the back 3, arguably Vyner and Atkinson are much better players with him there.

I like the fact that the system with this personnel allows Vyner and particularly Atkinson to go deep into the opposition half, not only to attack but also to defend. I counted 5 times in the first half where Atkinson dispossessed players 5 or 10 metres into their half. 

[ciderwithtommy]

Goals we conceded last year by virtue of not being able to keep the ball/inviting waves of pressure are being lowered, goals from seemingly poor mistakes (playing out at this level is tough) will increase. Overall, we will conceded less, and be more of a threat on the ball, forcing teams to play more conservatively against us. 
 

all systems have pros and cons. We have to accept a few heart in the mouth moments, but far better then watching us get battered for 20 minutes constantly as per the last few seasons

[italian dave]

8 hours ago, GrahamC said:

His decision making is bloody random, he got away with it twice tonight.

One shocker of a pass to Atkinson & then I have no idea what he was thinking with the ball back to Bentley.

Did a couple of amazing things, great tackles & blocks but if Vyner had played those 2 passes people would be going mental.

Absolutely this Graham. 

And as someone commented on the matchday thread last night, Massengo makes one mistake for the first goal at Blackpool and gets hauled off at HT and then dropped. Pring one mistake at Preston and never seen again. 

I accept the risk/reward argument, and part of that is about keeping a settled back 3. But the same could be said of the need for a settled midfield. 

[tin]

43 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

The amount of people that would moan on here if he just smashed it up to the other teams defence is a joke. We haven't had a defender with his class for years, let's not forget he takes 90% of set pieces.

Whoever said he can be like lewin nyatanga stinks of gas

There’s a bloke behind us in the Dolman who constantly moans about this. “Why’s a centre-back taking corners” blah blah blah.

Naismith’s got a wand of a left foot and I love having inswinging corners from the right. It’s been a bloody long time since we’ve had anyone who can take a consistently good set piece IMO.