45 crosses

[Cityboy1954]

1 hour ago, BS3City said:

45 crosses, the majority of which were crap...

Dasilva only hits opponants in the mid driff cant pass p...s

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Dasilva was getting into very decent positions but his crosses were the worst. I can’t recall any of them hitting a City target.  I was yelling at him to lift the bloody cross! it was so frustrating…….jeez………

At least City managed to keep a clean sheet.

I lose interest when Dasilva gets the ball at the edge of the opposition penalty area. As you say, almost every cross is awful and goes to an opposition player and if he’s in a shooting position you know he’s going to miss. It’s no good doing the nice stuff in the build up if the finish just gives the ball away. 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

What are peoples views on this?  Most games we produce about 15 crosses, sometimes as high as 20.  Tonight it was 45.  Is that because Coventry packed the central areas and forced us wide or is it down to a lack of bravery and taking the easy option?  Or was it a tactic from Nige?  Hard to say really, maybe his post match interview or press conference will reveal more.  The problem with crossing 45 times comes about when your players (a) can’t really cross a consistent ball and (b) your strikers aren’t attacking great areas.

Disappointed at a missed opportunity for 3 points.  For me, it was a lack of bravery in pass choice and also lack of movement, which often can go hand in hand.  We either dominate possession and then chances to break are rare, with our slow build up allowing teams to set their defence with ease or we get dominating and can then break but the opposition puts our defence under too much pressure.  
 

Very interested to see what Nige has to say 

 

 

We were too slow. By the time the crosses went in, they had 4 men (or more) back and with the keeper's help as well, dealt with them in a perfunctory matter.

By contrast, they broke with speed, causing mayhem among our midfield - such that it was - and defence. 

I think they were more likely to score.  Quick counters have worked for us in the past, but tonight we seemed to favour advancing up the field with the urgency of a man driving to lunch with his in-laws. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

What are peoples views on this?  Most games we produce about 15 crosses, sometimes as high as 20.  Tonight it was 45.  Is that because Coventry packed the central areas and forced us wide or is it down to a lack of bravery and taking the easy option?  Or was it a tactic from Nige?  Hard to say really, maybe his post match interview or press conference will reveal more.  The problem with crossing 45 times comes about when your players (a) can’t really cross a consistent ball and (b) your strikers aren’t attacking great areas.

Disappointed at a missed opportunity for 3 points.  For me, it was a lack of bravery in pass choice and also lack of movement, which often can go hand in hand.  We either dominate possession and then chances to break are rare, with our slow build up allowing teams to set their defence with ease or we get dominating and can then break but the opposition puts our defence under too much pressure.  
 

Very interested to see what Nige has to say 

 

My rather simplistic response is “poor execution” tonight.  On another night / afternoon, like most of this season, we probably create several really good chances.

As for why we got to many…we actually controlled a lot of possession in their half, but we didn’t get round the back very often.  Dabo and Bidwell normally play high, but we forced them back (or maybe they were happy to be deep?), but we didn’t hit our targets.  I thought we worked our “positions” pretty well tonight, but both Dasilva and Sykes were very poor with their crossing.

[NcnsBcfc]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My rather simplistic response is “poor execution” tonight.  On another night / afternoon, like most of this season, we probably create several really good chances.

As for why we got to many…we actually controlled a lot of possession in their half, but we didn’t get round the back very often.  Dabo and Bidwell normally play high, but we forced them back (or maybe they were happy to be deep?), but we didn’t hit our targets.  I thought we worked our “positions” pretty well tonight, but both Dasilva and Sykes were very poor with their crossing.

I can only remember JD's cross to Wells for the Luton game being the one real one of quality so far this season.

The whole of last season JD only had 4 assists from LWB. With precious few coming from the 10 other players to play RWB.

I think we all hoped Wilson would make a difference, but he looks a bit short on quality at the moment in both defensive, and offensive positions. It's a big leap from L2, so we may be looking at him in 6-12 months being a bit more accustomed to the pace and physicality of the Championship.

I can see JD going at the end of the season now. We need an upgrade at LWB, and I don't see us progressing there with giving him a new 2-3 year deal unfortunately. 

[DaveInSA]

I watched Jay closely against QPR and again last night.

The lad has talent to burn, seriously technically brilliant.

But. I feel he has a crisis of confidence (not the only one of our players by the way). 

I’d love to see him play, truly play with him and vigour and whip balls in. He can do it. But something stops him.

[DirtySanchez]

Think we missed a trick by not getting Martin involved with the amount of crosses going into the box. Of all those crosses, I think we got on the end of 2-3 maximum. But the quality of the crosses was quite poor and no one really attacking the ball. Onwards and upwards.

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

I watched Jay closely against QPR and again last night.

The lad has talent to burn, seriously technically brilliant.

But. I feel he has a crisis of confidence (not the only one of our players by the way). 

I’d love to see him play, truly play with him and vigour and whip balls in. He can do it. But something stops him.

Think Jay just lacks that but of extra pace to get enough space on the outside unless he beats his man with trickery.  When he comes inside he is often attacking the defenders wrong foot and can be more effective.

Ive always been critical of his final ball, tends to hit an area rather than a player, but I do think he’s improved that a bit this season, but last night was off-target. 

[Northern Red]

I was a bit surprised that Martin didn't come on, especially as he usually does even when we haven't been crossing it to the levels we did last night.

[Ivorguy]

10 hours ago, BS3City said:

45 crosses, the majority of which were crap...

And no winger on the pitch……

[spudski]

I've mentioned about the effectiveness of crosses from open play before. Many times.

It's one of the least proficient ways of scoring. The odds are often stacked against you. GK can jump and use hands, and often more defenders than attackers in box. 

You are relying on the defence making mistakes rather than your own good play.

There is so much analysis and study on the subject. 

Yesterday it seemed our only form of creativeness was to come from the flanks.

We were pedestrian and missed Alex Scott's creativeness and speed of feet and mind.

We offered nothing from CM. Hence Weimann and Semenyo often dropping back and trying to link play and create something. Which left no overloads in the box to try and win a cross. Even our wing backs were lack luster in getting on the back post from crosses.

For all his faults Naismith creates from the Centre of the park as does Scott. That became even more apparent in the second half.

After watching that yesterday...I really do see an opportunity missed if Kai and Scott aren't used together in CM. Both can defend...both can create.

A case for Vyner, Atkinson, Pring back three before Kalas is back? To keep defensively sound. 

Kai and Scott CM 

The rest as usual...

 

PROBABILITY OF SCORING A GOAL FROM A CROSS [1.6%].

---

This means that, on average, it takes 64 crosses to score a goal.

Obviously, from these stats we cannot extrapolate the number of times a goal is indirectly scored after cross, like after a failed clearance by the opponents. However, we are not sure this really matters. Our point is: should you really base your attacking strategy on exploiting the opponents’ defensive mistakes?

[DaveInSA]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've mentioned about the effectiveness of crosses from open play before. Many times.

It's one of the least proficient ways of scoring. The odds are often stacked against you. GK can jump and use hands, and often more defenders than attackers in box. 

You are relying on the defence making mistakes rather than your own good play.

There is so much analysis and study on the subject. 

Yesterday it seemed our only form of creativeness was to come from the flanks.

We were pedestrian and missed Alex Scott's creativeness and speed of feet and mind.

We offered nothing from CM. Hence Weimann and Semenyo often dropping back and trying to link play and create something. Which left no overloads in the box to try and win a cross. Even our wing backs were lack luster in getting on the back post from crosses.

For all his faults Naismith creates from the Centre of the park as does Scott. That became even more apparent in the second half.

After watching that yesterday...I really do see an opportunity missed if Kai and Scott aren't used together in CM. Both can defend...both can create.

A case for Vyner, Atkinson, Pring back three before Kalas is back? To keep defensively sound. 

Kai and Scott CM 

The rest as usual...

 

PROBABILITY OF SCORING A GOAL FROM A CROSS [1.6%].

---

This means that, on average, it takes 64 crosses to score a goal.

Obviously, from these stats we cannot extrapolate the number of times a goal is indirectly scored after cross, like after a failed clearance by the opponents. However, we are not sure this really matters. Our point is: should you really base your attacking strategy on exploiting the opponents’ defensive mistakes?

That’s the strategy other teams use against us - apparently it’s a winning formula for them

In all seriousness though, our squad is totally threadbare. We have two fit CBs and our midfield is powder puff and lightweight. Plus, the players we do have fit and available have too many “off days”.

 

[spudski]

22 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

That’s the strategy other teams use against us - apparently it’s a winning formula for them

In all seriousness though, our squad is totally threadbare. We have two fit CBs and our midfield is powder puff and lightweight. Plus, the players we do have fit and available have too many “off days”.

 

I agree that we can't just rely on Scott and James in CM. As you say there are off days. Finding a formula that is consistent is the key. However as you imply...our quality is lacking in depth in certain departments.

 

[OneTeamInBristol]

I like Jay's general play, think he's very skilful on the ball especially for a wing back.

But his crossing is woeful, most of them don't beat the first man or he tries to generate so much power on it that it sails out of play beyond the goal.

I can't recall a player who gets in so many great crossing positions and then fluffs the ball in.

Edited October 5, 2022 by OneTeamInBristol

[Super]

2 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

I like Jay's general play, think he's very skilful on the ball especially for a wing back.

But his crossing is woeful, most of them don't beat the first man or he tries to generate so much power on it that it sails out of play beyond the goal.

I can't recall a player who gets in so many great crossing positions and then fluffs the ball in.

The formation that we play the most important players are the WB's. The final ball from both last night was terrible.

[mozo]

I much prefer when we drill low crosses across the 6 yard box but we didn't really do that. Semenyo had a golden opportunity to pass across to Wells and instead smashed the ball high and long.

I'm surprised we waited so long to bring Conway on. It was also clear that Sykes was struggling to create anything so Wilson made sense.

I've noticed this that Williams and Weimann are struggling with their delivery this season when they should typically be creating chances. 

Summary: it's all got a bit shit.

Edited October 5, 2022 by mozo

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, Super said:

The formation that we play the most important players are the WB's. The final ball from both last night was terrible.

Coventry played deep and narrow to stop the space in behind centrally. It gives our attackers no room to move into.

When a team does that...you use your wing backs to go wide and draw the opposition's defence out and wider. Creating space in behind and angles.

We didn't do that. 

Coventry kept their shape and discipline and allowed aimless crosses into the box, that they easily dealt with...then countered. 

It was a ridiculous tactic by us yesterday considering how Coventry set up.

My only conclusion for us doing so, was that we realised we had no creativity in midfield and that crossing was our best opportunity of scoring...relying on their defence to make a mistake rather than our guile.

I can see Birmingham doing similar.

Hopefully if Scott returns, we can play as we've done in the past 

[Bazooka Joe]

45 crosses?

Add one more to that.

The cross we have to bear as City fans,

 

One day all these crosses will hopefully amount to something and we'll crucify the opposition.

[beaverface]

I thought when Atkinson\Semenyo worked the ball with DaSilva down the left by offering overlaps, we looked especially dangerous when getting to the byline, but then we stopped doing that, and DaSilva just attempted to cross ball rather than use an overlap.

I thought getting to the touchline and dribbling along was our best chance of scoring, but we didn't do it often enough.

Don't get me started on our shooting from distance. I can't remember the last time we scored a 25yarder - probably Bakinson last season.

Joe William's shooting is atrocious - I've never seen such a high % of shanked shots, but to be fair, nobody in midfield seems to shoot decently from distance any more.

[The Journalist]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

I've mentioned about the effectiveness of crosses from open play before. Many times.

It's one of the least proficient ways of scoring. The odds are often stacked against you. GK can jump and use hands, and often more defenders than attackers in box. 

You are relying on the defence making mistakes rather than your own good play.

There is so much analysis and study on the subject. 

Yesterday it seemed our only form of creativeness was to come from the flanks.

We were pedestrian and missed Alex Scott's creativeness and speed of feet and mind.

We offered nothing from CM. Hence Weimann and Semenyo often dropping back and trying to link play and create something. Which left no overloads in the box to try and win a cross. Even our wing backs were lack luster in getting on the back post from crosses.

For all his faults Naismith creates from the Centre of the park as does Scott. That became even more apparent in the second half.

After watching that yesterday...I really do see an opportunity missed if Kai and Scott aren't used together in CM. Both can defend...both can create.

A case for Vyner, Atkinson, Pring back three before Kalas is back? To keep defensively sound. 

Kai and Scott CM 

The rest as usual...

 

PROBABILITY OF SCORING A GOAL FROM A CROSS [1.6%].

---

This means that, on average, it takes 64 crosses to score a goal.

Obviously, from these stats we cannot extrapolate the number of times a goal is indirectly scored after cross, like after a failed clearance by the opponents. However, we are not sure this really matters. Our point is: should you really base your attacking strategy on exploiting the opponents’ defensive mistakes?

So, if anything, what you’re saying is… we didn’t put enough crosses in? Another 20 or so and we’d have pinched a 1-0?

[Bris Red]

12 hours ago, pongo88 said:

I lose interest when Dasilva gets the ball at the edge of the opposition penalty area. As you say, almost every cross is awful and goes to an opposition player and if he’s in a shooting position you know he’s going to miss. It’s no good doing the nice stuff in the build up if the finish just gives the ball away. 

Agreed. Dasilva’s end product often leaves a lot to be desired i find.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Bris Red

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

our midfield is powder puff and lightweight. Plus, the players we do have fit and available have too many “off days”.

 

How do you square this with Scott getting 5 bookings in 11 League games? Thought Williams has a bit of bite or has in the past- picked up 4 already no? Sorry just checked and it says 5.

Perhaps it's low for midfield, haven't checked comparable stats but it doesn't exactly align.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Although an interesting stat.

BBC stats said we committed 7 fouls and received 2 bookings.

Coventry committed 11 fouls...and received 1.

[Mr Popodopolous]

As for crossing, these days I don't see it as all that effective with congested central areas- although different types of crossing, wingers- low and fast better than high hanging I think.

[Lew-T]

2 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

I like Jay's general play, think he's very skilful on the ball especially for a wing back.

But his crossing is woeful, most of them don't beat the first man or he tries to generate so much power on it that it sails out of play beyond the goal.

I can't recall a player who gets in so many great crossing positions and then fluffs the ball in.

I’ve said it before but Jay is great around the middle of the park with the quick one two or sharp turns to get away from a player.
 

But his final ball and end product is lacking. He’s not quick enough to beat his man to the byline either.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

 

I can't recall a player who gets in so many great crossing positions and then fluffs the ball in.

I can. 
Sykes. 

[And Its Smith]

Lots of moaning about Dasilva last night in contrast to Pearson who specifically mentioned him as ‘excellent’

[Harry]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Lots of moaning about Dasilva last night in contrast to Pearson who specifically mentioned him as ‘excellent’

Interestingly, I was walking back across the park last night infront of some Cov fans and heard them saying how they though JD looked really good. They also thought Massengo had a good game! 
I was with my daughter so couldn’t be arsed to get into the conversation with them and inform that, despite JD apparently “looking good” to them, they probably failed to notice that he delivered the square root of eff all on the six hundred and fifty nine excellent crossing positions he got into. 
 

Same goes for Sykes. I’ve been quite surprised that he hasn’t come under fire prior to now. I’ve seen quite a few posters / Twitter comments etc saying how impressed they’ve been by him. I can’t help but laugh my gonads into my throat when I see this!  He’s been dreadful. Again, work rate, yes. Happy with that. He manages to get himself into some very good attacking positions. But 9 out of 10 times he completely effs up the final ball/cross. His effort has been good, but his quality, composure and intelligence has been severely lacking. Not just last night, but all season. 
 

On a wider point, re the crosses. I think the loss of Conway severely hampered our game. We looked so static and seemed to be plodding. I don’t think I saw a single 3rd man run last night. It was all very slow and ponderous. As soon as Conway came on, we had energy and desire up front, and the melee on the half way line was due to Conway working back and closing down their midfield. I can’t actually believe that a total rookie is so integral to our success already. 
 

Last night the quality was severely lacking. The crossing and final balls were awful (but I’ve come to expect that from Dasilva and Sykes anyway), but it was more the lack of movement that was worrying. There were no passages of play that you’d expect us to have trained, for example, one time Sykes had the ball wide, half way into their half. He played a ball inside to Williams. Any team that was being well-coached would have had a midfield runner breaking in between the full back and centre back, a third man runner, looking for the first time through ball as soon as Sykes lays it back to Williams. Or one of the strikers bending a run behind to give the midfielder an immediate passing option. 
We had none of that last night, and in the one example given, all it meant was that Williams received the pass, had nothing on, so had to turn and go back to Vyner. 
 

Yes. The crossing was awful last night. It is every week from those 2.  But my worry was the lack of any play developing elsewhere, which meant we ended up playing it to the wing backs every time. 
 

As for the wider ‘crossing’ debate. Yes, when crossing from wide it’s a low success ratio. This is why good teams are coached to ‘upgrade the cross’. 
A cross from wide is a low percentage chance. If you develop play so that the wide player manages to play a cute ball inside into the box, to an on running midfielder, then you’ve upgraded the cross to a better position. Best example I use for this is the Leeds team that got promoted a couple of years ago. The majority of their goals came from cut-backs from the byline, from inside the 18. The defence was turned and there was always on oncoming midfielder to receive the cut back near the penalty spot. They got their wide players onto the ball but played an extra pass into the box before the cut back cross. They upgraded their crosses to one which had a much higher percentage of success. 
We don’t have any movement from midfield so always end up just swinging in pointless crosses from wide areas which invariably hit the first man or sail yards over everyone. 
We need to learn to upgrade the cross (or at least try Pring and Wilson in the wingback areas who have both been proven to be able to deliver more accurate crosses). 

[Daniro]

2 hours ago, beaverface said:

Joe William's shooting is atrocious -

... as was a lot of his passing last night, which, on top of his stupid booking, made me wonder what's the point of him.

[Tim Monaghan]

First game we haven't scored isn't it?