Quote of the season

[Portland Bill]

17 hours ago, Robbored said:

It’s a crap Premiership in Scotland with only two clubs that can win it. 

Very much like England, bigger league, but only 3 or 4 can win it.

Yes, you will get the odd Leicester, like you get the odd Aberdeen win, but the are as rare as an exciting bowls match!!.

[IAmNick]

I'm kind of on the fence here.

On one hand I don't think Lee is a good communicator, and has a bit of a habit of choosing rather odd or awkward turns of phrase. Combined with often not reading the room when it comes to feeling or audience it's pretty cringeworthy at times.

However, football fans aren't idiots. There's no real need to simplify or talk down on what are already not particularly complicated concepts. These days a lot of fans are very educated when it comes to the game, and statistics in particular - just look at this forum and some of the fan blogs out there. I don't think there's anything wrong with him using a few technical terms or details really... that's who he is. If every interview was just "Yeah we should really have won that game so we'll expect the results will come soon" it'd be boring.

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Harry said:

100% I would have done. But mostly because what was being spouted by some  dry bread no mark in a suit and was always more or less bullshit. 
Bullshit bingo would be to use ‘fancy’ words to attempt to make things look better than they are. Hiding the truth. 
LJ is not using bullshit bingo. He’s using a perfectly legitimate vocabulary to describe how he was was happy the detail of the performance. What he speaks is the truth, which is borne out by the facts. It’s not the type of BB you and I would usually see in some CFO who’s trying to mask his own poor performance. 
 

As I said earlier, I think it’s refreshing that we have a manager who is willing to display this vocabulary when most other managers use tired old clichés. We should embrace it rather than ridicule it. It surely gives us a bit more insight rather than “well, we should’ve won that game” or “we’re disappointed to have not got the 3 points” etc etc bland bland bland 

Thats not what Bullshit Bingo was in our office, it was using unnecessary / bollox words / terms when normal vocabulary would suffice…the kind of phrases they’d heard someone say once and then used themselves to sound clever.

 

[LondonBristolian]

38 minutes ago, Harry said:

So he’s using nuance, and vocabulary that is not the norm in this very clichéd industry, yet you call it bullshit? 
It’s not bullshit. Bullshit is something that is made up. He’s not made anything up. He’s using the analytics of the performance to assert that he thinks the team played well. You may not like the vocabulary he uses, but it’s not bullshit. 

I think "bullshit" can be about syntax as well as about content. I actually agree with you that LJ does not need to bullshit. He's a clever guy and he did a much better job for us than he often gets credit for. Keeping us in the Championship gradually improving and changing the culture from a League One club to a Championship club isn't glamorous but it was needed and an achievement. 

My impression is that his critical flaw is that he lacks the confidence in his own judgment. Hence the times he'd second-guess himself making changes that confused the players more than the opposition, or the beginning of 2019/20 then he ripped off the pre-season plan after one defeat against Leeds, or the times in interviews when he uses complex and alienating language. 

He's certainly smart enough not to need to bullshit. But, when he phrases things in a needlessly complex way that throws even himself (as others have said, he misuses the word "percentile" where he simply means "percentage"), he looks like a bullshitter and sounds like a bullshitter so can have no complaints when people call him a bullshitter. 

[Davefevs]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

I think "bullshit" can be about syntax as well as about content. I actually agree with you that LJ does not need to bullshit. He's a clever guy and he did a much better job for us than he often gets credit for. Keeping us in the Championship gradually improving and changing the culture from a League One club to a Championship club isn't glamorous but it was needed and an achievement. 

My impression is that his critical flaw is that he lacks the confidence in his own judgment. Hence the times he'd second-guess himself making changes that confused the players more than the opposition, or the beginning of 2019/20 then he ripped off the pre-season plan after one defeat against Leeds, or the times in interviews when he uses complex and alienating language. 

He's certainly smart enough not to need to bullshit. But, when he phrases things in a needlessly complex way that throws even himself (as others have said, he misuses the word "percentile" where he simply means "percentage"), he looks like a bullshitter and sounds like a bullshitter so can have no complaints when people call him a bullshitter. 

Which is why I found his pre-match stuff and general interviews (eg on 20Man) really nice and informative to listen to.  But his post-match stuff was often a bit “nuanced” (to quote Harry) and / or rather “self-congratulatory”. #clutch

[Rocking Red Cyril]

12 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Where is zone 14 in the percentile?

Seems a sensible question to  me 

[cidered abroad]

Still the same old bullshit coming out of his mouth. 

Does he have any clue what percentile means and when it is relevant to use it?

Edited October 15, 2022 by cidered abroad

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

It's so common these days for people to see one quote, but never read or listen to the rest of the interview/conversation. So much taken out of context. 

If you were to listen to, or read the interview, the rest is pretty much plain English in common language.

He even states in one interview after the game that Stats don't win games.

Yes...he's not everyone's cup of tea...but I really don't get the ' pile on attitude'... especially after he worked so hard for the club. 

Yes it didn't work out...but he brought some fantastic football on occasion and some great memories. Both Man Utd and Man City stand out.

After the game, straight plain talking.

You are not the first to make such a statement on this thread ,

 

But where is this ‘worked so hard for the club’ come from - based on ?

Are you / others suggesting that he worked harder than the (or any of the) other head coaches and managers we’ve had ?

I’ve seen what several others did before him , and if he got anywhere close I’d be surprised 

 

He was supported far more by the hierarchy , than anyone has previously , that is for sure

 

* As for bullshit I give you ‘Bomb alley’ as one simple example

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[Peter Coles]

10 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

You are not the first to make such a statement on this thread ,

 

But where is this ‘worked so hard for the club’ come from - based on ?

Are you / others suggesting that he worked harder than the (or any of the) other head coaches and managers we’ve had ?

I’ve seen what several others did before him , and if he got anywhere close I’d be surprised 

 

He was supported far more by the hierarchy , than anyone has previously , that is for sure

 

* As for bullshit I give you ‘Bomb alley’ as one simple example

 

 

Some things never change

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

My impression is that his critical flaw is that he lacks the confidence in his own judgment. Hence the times he'd second-guess himself making changes that confused the players more than the opposition, or the beginning of 2019/20 then he ripped off the pre-season plan after one defeat against Leeds, or the times in interviews when he uses complex and alienating language. 

He's certainly smart enough not to need to bullshit. But, when he phrases things in a needlessly complex way that throws even himself (as others have said, he misuses the word "percentile" where he simply means "percentage"), he looks like a bullshitter and sounds like a bullshitter so can have no complaints when people call him a bullshitter. 

Whilst I agree with the general gist of your post, especially concerning LJ's lack of confidence in his own judgement - I wonder where we might have been had he been able or willing to overrule MA - I am not so sure that he actually misused the word 'percentile', particularly as he was apparently referring to statistics, rather than just pure figures.    

[Leveller]

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

You are not the first to make such a statement on this thread ,

 

But where is this ‘worked so hard for the club’ come from - based on ?

Are you / others suggesting that he worked harder than the (or any of the) other head coaches and managers we’ve had ?

I’ve seen what several others did before him , and if he got anywhere close I’d be surprised 

 

He was supported far more by the hierarchy , than anyone has previously , that is for sure

 

* As for bullshit I give you ‘Bomb alley’ as one simple example

 

 

Why is “bomb alley” bullshit? Any short phrase that succinctly describes something is useful; “corridor of uncertainty” is longer, widely used, rarely mocked and yet more pompous.

[PHILINFRANCE]

4 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Why is “bomb alley” bullshit? Any short phrase that succinctly describes something is useful; “corridor of uncertainty” is longer, widely used, rarely mocked and yet more pompous.

Perhaps, but in cricketing terms, those three words describe so succinctly where the ball is being delivered, and everybody can picture the scene.

[Supersonic Robin]

12 hours ago, billywedlock said:

As the original quote was from a journalist , not sure why anyone is talking about common fans at all . It should be about common journalists who don’t understand , or who have your “ weird obsession “ with mocking him. Why do you think a journalist is mocking him then ? Is he obsessed too ? or is he just pointing out what he considers to be quote of the season from a football manager ? Forget who said it , it is irrelevant, it is the words spoken that make it quote of the season not who said it . Which seems to have confused too many “ common fans” . 

I think it's likely that the journalist (and many fans) understand the point LJ is making, but choose to ignore that in order to have a dig. I think the journalist has probably tweeted that quote knowing it's the sort of thing that will get a lot of interaction. 

Some of the criticism LJ gets often feels like high school stuff to me. Football fans have decided that LJ is dislikable and 'uncool', and therefore, like an unpopular kid at school, people look for every opportunity to have a laugh at him. For example, I genuinely believe that LJ would receive far more respect as a football manager if he happened to be a few inches taller.

You claim the fact that LJ said the quote is irrelevant, but I don't agree. If Guardiola or Mourinho makes that quote, do people find it so laughable? Probably not.

Lee Johnson has flaws, just like all of us. But LJ receives a completely disproportionate amount of criticism and ridicule simply on the basis that many people have decided they don't like him.

[MelksRed]

On 14/10/2022 at 17:43, Marcus Aurelius said:

 

Still a stroker then Lee?