U21s today

[spudski]

Massengo and Bajic both playing.

[And Its Smith]

Hopefully the wake up call Massengo needs. Won’t be nice feeling playing for the under 21s today. 

[Winterstoke toad]

Is the reasoning a falling out over contract issues with massengo or am I reading to much into it ? . He hasn’t been in great form but neither has most the squad . 

[bearded_red]

Mainly plays poorly when he gets a game, hasn’t made the squad for the last two games, even while James was unavailable.

Even ignoring the contract issue, I really don’t understand why him playing in this game has created the drama it seems to have on Twitter.

Edited October 18, 2022 by bearded_red

[Davefevs]

Massengo needs to keep match sharp if he isn’t in the 18.

I’m sure the reason he’s not in the squad at the mo (Kadji in instead) is because of the contract situation.  Maybe Bentley’s recent omission too is partially contract too…as Nige starts seeing whether others can stake their claim and infirm him early of next summer’s plans.

7 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Mainly plays poorly when he gets a game, hasn’t made the squad for the last two games, even while James was unavailable.

Even ignoring the contract issue, I really don’t understand why him playing in this game has created the drama it seems to have on Twitter.

I don’t agree with sentence one, he’s done fine in most games this season, Brum aside…where he was non-existent.

Agree with second sentence.

[Sheltons Army]

8 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Yeah this looks like the end of Massengo , unless there's something else amiss. 

I'd guess not happy times behind the scenes 

Massengo puts in awful performance when given a chance , and no sign of wanting to stay here , drops out of match day squad , so included in U21 Squad

 

=.       ‘Not happy times behind the scenes ‘  #Drama

 

Seems a decent lad but I couldn’t care too much whether he is happy or not but you clearly think it’s not just him 

[Simon79]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Massengo puts in awful performance when given a chance , and no sign of wanting to stay here , drops out of match day squad , so included in U21 Squad

 

=.       ‘Not happy times behind the scenes ‘  #Drama

 

Seems a decent lad but I couldn’t care too much whether he is happy or not but you clearly think it’s not just him 

Awful? Birmingham away he was not good by all accounts, was anyone? But I think he’s done ok from the games Ive seen. Can see both sides of the story with regards the contract/selection situation. COYR 

[Engvall’s Splinter]

Hasn’t performed to an acceptable level and plays for the 21s (reserves). Nothing to see here. 

[LondonBristolian]

Bottom line is he's under-21 and not in the first team squad. Whatever the reasons for that, the U-21 squad is a rational place to be.

I'm sure he'd rather be in the first team squad but he needs to demonstrate that he has to be included. I don't think he has purely been dropped because of the contract situation but reluctance to sign a contract plus not demonstrating he's an essential inclusion is obviously leading to other players being given a chance in his stead. 

[CiderCraig]

WHAT A START!

 

Seb Palmer-Houlden charges down the keeper and the ball loops into the back of the net to open the scoring after just 54 seconds!

 

1-0[1]

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Awful? Birmingham away he was not good by all accounts, was anyone? But I think he’s done ok from the games Ive seen. Can see both sides of the story with regards the contract/selection situation. COYR 

We were crap that day, and as big a fan as Massengo that I am, he hid that day.  Others tried but were just poor, that’s a big difference for me.  Dasilva didn’t look like he could be arsed that game too, but had a lot more credit in the bank.  Is Pring’s inclusion since Brum, a message to Jay to get back to his early season form?

 

4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Bottom line is he's under-21 and not in the first team squad. Whatever the reasons for that, the U-21 squad is a rational place to be.

I'm sure he'd rather be in the first team squad but he needs to demonstrate that he has to be included. I don't think he has purely been dropped because of the contract situation but reluctance to sign a contract plus not demonstrating he's an essential inclusion is obviously leading to other players being given a chance in his stead. 

a rational post.

Just seen on twitter the “sensationalism” of it.  Most are probably posters who don’t rate him!

[spudski]

The lad Morrison at LWB is only 16. Great to see young talent being blooded. 

As for Massengo...sadly it seems it's not working out for him or us.

[glynriley]

On the plus side, surely means James is back tonight and/or Dave Rennie is now confident that Williams'  'strings aren't going to snap at any moment.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by glynriley

[alexukhc]

That rules out Bajic for tonight then

[JoeAman08]

If it is contractual it is actually baffling. Kalas, Dasilva, Wells, Bentley, Max, Vyner and Klose are all out of contract and around the team.
 

We haven’t offered them deals I expect as a rebuttal but presumably because we will not be offering them equal terms so why bother until we and they know their market? That goes for HNM too. We don’t know his market yet because of covid and finances. Why is he being singled out? 
 

As far as form, he hasn’t been at his best. Neither have many others though either. Weimann sees 90 min regardless of how he is playing. Williams can’t complete passes outside of 5 yards. Sykes and Dasilva bang average at best. We say HNM is in poor form because he doesn’t always reach the levels HE has set. You notice a 6/10 performance more from him than you will Matty James or Joe Williams because they won’t give you a 9 or 10 from 10 performance. 
 

I don’t really mind how the team is ran. I just don’t like being told one thing about a player and then you look over at someone else and the same is not being applied. We are not in a position to be pissy about a contract when the player can help us to more points. 

[CyderInACan]

2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

That goes for HNM too. We don’t know his market yet because of covid and finances. Why is he being singled out? 

I thought he'd effectively told the club he's off at the end of the season and wouldn't be interested in staying? 

[Negan]

2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

If it is contractual it is actually baffling. Kalas, Dasilva, Wells, Bentley, Max, Vyner and Klose are all out of contract and around the team.
 

We haven’t offered them deals I expect as a rebuttal but presumably because we will not be offering them equal terms so why bother until we and they know their market? That goes for HNM too. We don’t know his market yet because of covid and finances. Why is he being singled out? 
 

As far as form, he hasn’t been at his best. Neither have many others though either. Weimann sees 90 min regardless of how he is playing. Williams can’t complete passes outside of 5 yards. Sykes and Dasilva bang average at best. We say HNM is in poor form because he doesn’t always reach the levels HE has set. You notice a 6/10 performance more from him than you will Matty James or Joe Williams because they won’t give you a 9 or 10 from 10 performance. 
 

I don’t really mind how the team is ran. I just don’t like being told one thing about a player and then you look over at someone else and the same is not being applied. We are not in a position to be pissy about a contract when the player can help us to more points. 

The thing with Massengo is he gives more 5/10 performances than Williams or James. Both of them will probably give you 7/10 most weeks so they are consistent, whereas HNM gives you a 10/10 for one game and goes missing for the next 5 appearances, he’s constantly in and out the team. I’ve no doubt he’ll have a good career after us but I don’t rate him half as much as some do on here. Don’t think we’ll hear much of him once he leaves us, he’ll just be an average player wherever he goes… bit like Eliasson. 

[Malago]

Putting aside all the petty squabbling, we’re 3-1 up at HT.

[REDOXO]

I really don’t see what some do with Massengo. But I’ll brush over my personal feelings about the player and his ability. 
 

If you are not playing in the first team then playing in the stiffs/U23/21s is what would and should happen at any club. 
 

The contract situation has become an ongoing issue, obviously, but who knows what’s been offered? Anyone? 
 

With the way football finances, outside the Premier League are, it is highly unlikely that it’s more lucrative than the one he’s on and highly likely the offer of another three years or so was predicated on ending the one he’s on, as has already been the case with others. 
 

Either way and what ever you may think about his ability, the bloke is a distraction the team don’t need. Hopefully somebody will take a chance on him in the next window and everyone can move on. 

[JoeAman08]

Just now, Negan said:

The thing with Massengo is he gives more 5/10 performances than Williams or James. Both of them will probably give you 7/10 most weeks so they are consistent, whereas HNM gives you a 10/10 for one game and goes missing for the next 5 appearances, he’s constantly in and out the team. I’ve no doubt he’ll have a good career after us but I don’t rate him half as much as some do on here. Don’t think we’ll hear much of him once he leaves us, he’ll just be an average player wherever he goes… bit like Eliasson. 

I don’t agree about Williams but we do miss James. That said, that is the nature of championship players. The inconsistency is what keeps them from playing at a higher level. Massengo, in my view, has never been given a stable role nor stable minutes. If you look at a player like Sykes who I think is a good 5-7 every week, he is in the team regardless. Massengo has never been afforded this. He can have two stellar games then a few poor ones and is dropped. 
 

Idk I could argue for Massengo all day. I agree he has stalled here and he does not seem to be a player destined for a massively successful career. I just don’t think Bristol City has done him many favours either. 

[KegCity]

1 hour ago, bearded_red said:

Mainly plays poorly when he gets a game, hasn’t made the squad for the last two games, even while James was unavailable.

Even ignoring the contract issue, I really don’t understand why him playing in this game has created the drama it seems to have on Twitter.

That’s not true though is it? 

If he’s not in the 18 he should be playing to stay sharp. Have to wonder if he’s told the club he won’t be re signing and will now be exiled to the U21s.

[Selred]

27 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I thought he'd effectively told the club he's off at the end of the season and wouldn't be interested in staying? 

Even if he did, so what? He's still a tidy Championship midfielder, and it's a position we are lacking in. I'd say he's far better than Andy King who still makes the bench, even though he won't be playing next season (hopefully).

[P'head Red]

Matty James will be back in tonight to slow it all down even further. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, P'head Red said:

Matty James will be back in tonight to slow it all down even further. 

When James got injured, we'd had a run of good performances, gone several games unbeaten and then held our own in narrow defeats against perhaps the two best teams in the division.

Since then we've had 1 win in 5 games and looked utterly abject at times.

That is not a coincidence and anyone who wonders what James brings to the team just needs to see how we look without him on the pitch. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by LondonBristolian
typo

[Super]

37 minutes ago, Negan said:

The thing with Massengo is he gives more 5/10 performances than Williams or James. Both of them will probably give you 7/10 most weeks so they are consistent, whereas HNM gives you a 10/10 for one game and goes missing for the next 5 appearances, he’s constantly in and out the team. I’ve no doubt he’ll have a good career after us but I don’t rate him half as much as some do on here. Don’t think we’ll hear much of him once he leaves us, he’ll just be an average player wherever he goes… bit like Eliasson. 

I can't remember the last time Williams was a 7/10. 

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

If it is contractual it is actually baffling. Kalas, Dasilva, Wells, Bentley, Max, Vyner and Klose are all out of contract and around the team.

complete speculation from me, but could we be seeing the start of some of those issues starting to play out?

Massengo - I’ve conceded he isn’t staying, so Nige giving Kadji a chance, which will give Nige a clue as to whether he has a ready made replacement in-house, or whether he needs to go to market in the summer.

Bentley - similar to above, is Max getting one last chance to prove he has a future here, perhaps Bents isn’t committing in the timescale Nige wants?  Also, gives Nige a chance to assess whether to exercise Max’s option.  With Bajic signed, Nige can work out whether he is sorted next summer or not.

Dasilva - maybe the recent return of Pring to the 18 is a reminder to Jay not to rest on his laurels after his early season form has dropped off?  Nige did say players have to earn their contract extensions.  Jay will be on good money, and perhaps a little kick up the backside?

Wells - dunno, but Nige must be happy with his contribution, so not really a discussion point.

Kalas - dunno, been injured, so neither party in a real position to progress anything.

Max - see Bentley.

Vyner - we have a one-year option, and not sure there’s any time criticalness to this one.

Klose - also has a year option (likely to be his option rather than club - like Martin’s), and I’m sure that at 34 it’s a different type of decision than the younger players.

Nige will be thinking about next summer, but he might also be thinking about January too, can he create some wiggle room, by moving someone on earlier?
 

We haven’t offered them deals I expect as a rebuttal but presumably because we will not be offering them equal terms so why bother until we and they know their market?

we know the market already.  A senior player won’t be offered what they currently get.  It isn’t gonna grow back to to pre-covid.  I think what we are seeing is perhaps proof of how much we overpaid in the past.

That goes for HNM too. We don’t know his market yet because of covid and finances. Why is he being singled out?

Just asking the Q, in what way has he been singled out?  Do you mean being left out?  Unfortunately his contract situation was made more publicly known by RG this time last year.
 

As far as form, he hasn’t been at his best. Neither have many others though either. Weimann sees 90 min regardless of how he is playing. Williams can’t complete passes outside of 5 yards. Sykes and Dasilva bang average at best. We say HNM is in poor form because he doesn’t always reach the levels HE has set. You notice a 6/10 performance more from him than you will Matty James or Joe Williams because they won’t give you a 9 or 10 from 10 performance. 
 

I don’t really mind how the team is ran. I just don’t like being told one thing about a player and then you look over at someone else and the same is not being applied. We are not in a position to be pissy about a contract when the player can help us to more points.

I think this is a case of the manager evaluating differently to you or I.  We (OTIB) don’t agree on player performance either.  FWIW I thought Williams (and Klose) were our better performers on Saturday.  I think Williams needs back to back games to find some rhythm.  I’m hoping he’s ok again tonight, and that we are over the need to rest him for back-to-back.  I’m not saying we shouldn’t be careful with him, and maybe if he plays tonight (3 on the spin) he might miss out over the next couple.

6 minutes ago, Super said:

I can't remember the last time Williams was a 7/10. 

Saturday.

[Malago]

Finished 3-2.  Didn’t realise it was being played at AG.  Anybody go?

[Super]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Saturday.

He really wasn't.

[LondonBristolian]

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Saturday.

Replying to your comments in your post, which obviously don't show here now but I think our out of contract players broadly fall into two camps - although it's not necessarily known or obvious who is in which category.

There will be the players who will expect to get offers elsewhere and the challenge is making sure they don't drop off in commitment levels as their minds move towards the future. 

Then there will be the players who will fear they need to prove themselves - either to stay at the club or to get a decent offer if they leave. Those players will have the desire to do well but there is a risk they'll make mistakes due to feeling the pressure and that their morale or confidence will drop.

Two very different challenges for Pearson to manage. 

 

[Rob k]

22 minutes ago, Super said:

He really wasn't.

I’ve been quite scathing of Williams but i thought he had a decent enough game on Saturday